Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,932
I’m interested in more specifics. What does Alexa do better than the 90s shows? I don’t have any smart devices lol.

TOS obviously used computer tapes, which was pretty advanced for the time, but I wouldn’t say that an Enterprise 1701 scene filmed now should use tapes. Some things can be quietly replaced without comment, like the klingon makeup should have been left as. Except for that one joke.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
It's always funny when they are carrying multiple PADDS for books or files, that's the kind of stuff they can get rid of and wouldn't really make a difference.
 
Dec 31, 2018
1,354
To be honest I don't agree with Star Wars and I don't agree with Star Trek. It seems like it has become a trend to blame everything on the fans but the fact is that fans aren't in charge of making creative decisions and fans don't have any power over a project's critical or commercial success.
I loved Enterprise but that ending to the series was a dick move. I have tried so so so so hard to like Discovery and I can't do it but it has made me go back and marathon DS9 and TNG. Eagerly awaiting Picard
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,757
I honestly believe most of the changes aren't anything to do with modernisation and just what the creators think will be cool, even if it doesn't make sense and at this point I don't believe someone exists in the writer's room to raise a hand when something canon breaking is suggested.

When fans complain too much they then go an make the poorest excuses to explain, like Pike saying to rip out the holocommunications to explain why Enterprise had none in TOS (... And not explain why no other ship uses them either for at least next 110 years), or them just straight up retconning the S1 D7 so can replace it with a more recognisable D7 (which now doesn't match the rest of Klingon ship design). Or of course "Fuck it, they in the future, nobody ever allowed to talk about the ship, its crew or the engines ever again" even though all of Starfleet and more should know a bunch of this by now.

Discovery going to the future I 100% believe is because of fan backlash.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,520
By modern standars, AI in Star Trek is straight up Schizo Tech. Enormously, maybe even impossibly capable in some regards (e.g. the Enterprise's computer making a sentient being by accident) but incredibly primitive in others. A lot of really routine stuff is handled by crew members that by all rights should be easily done by computers, if we assumed even a reasonable level of advancement from where we are now.

AI doesn't have to mean a computer with the same level of intelligence and self awareness as a real person. Stuff like the Enterprise's computer being less capable than Alexa in some respects really shows the series' age, and not in a good way. Better to keep up with the times.
The easy solution to this would be to simply stop making prequels.
 

Kzinti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
445
I'd love to learn why: 1. they changed klingons so dramatically,
ask Bryan fuller he was the one who pushed the klingons redesign
2. Why it was a prequel.
well originally discovery was an anthology show with each season being in a different era obviously the cost of such a show would have been quite high hence why CBS fired fuller and i got to say i'm quite glad they did
 
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Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,492
I loved Enterprise but that ending to the series was a dick move. I have tried so so so so hard to like Discovery and I can't do it but it has made me go back and marathon DS9 and TNG. Eagerly awaiting Picard
Yeah the ending of Enterprise was bad. I too gave Discovery multiple chances but I had to really force myself to finish the second season. It just doesn't have the interesting stories and characters that I've come to expect out of Star Trek.

I'm afraid for Picard. I really am. I have no confidence in the franchise's current leadership and I'm worried that they won't be able to do the character justice.

The easy solution to this would be to simply stop making prequels.
Absolutely. Fans have been urging the people in control for years to move the timeline forward but they're still afraid to move past the era around TOS.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,200
My worry for Discovery season 3 is that they think "Oh we can do what we want now since we're way put of canon", which isn't the case.

We've already had examples of 31st Century Star Trek after all where we know the Federation is alive and well and bigger than ever. My other worry is that they're going to go with some "It's the 32nd Century and everything has gone to shit" style plot, which they already alluded to in that short set in the future where it seemed to imply the galaxy had fallen to chaos and the Federation had turned into some kind of Star Wars like Empire. That would also be the only real explanation for why Discovery couldn't just be sent straight back in time since in the 31st Century time travel is so easy that High Schoolers can literally make communicators that can talk to the past.

Not only does that contradict what we know of the future though, but it also contradicts the general theme of Star Trek being about a hopeful and positive future.
 

Kzinti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
445
empires always rise and fall to think it wouldn't happen to the federation is naive beside just think of the cheesy opening monologue

''The long night has come. The Systems Commonwealth United Federation of planets, the greatest civilization in history, has fallen. Now one ship, one crew, have vowed to drive back the night and rekindle the light of civilization. On the starship Andromeda Discovery... hope lives again ''
😜
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
It's 140 years past anything we know about the Federation, it could go to shit in that time span. But I agree that I hope that isn't where it goes. Also the future of Calypso doesn't make sense because Disco was abandoned for a 1000 years, so it'd have to go back in time at one point to be abandon, it could just be an alternate timeline.
 

Kzinti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
445
since calypso is a short trek they can just retcon or ignore the 1000 years just like they did with the saru short
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
Funny I just saw this pop up

Star Trek: Discovery Season 3 Will Reveal the Fate of the Federation in the 32nd Century

“We jumped to the future at the end of season two. This is a big deal. We’ve boldly gone where no Star Trek series has gone before,” Jones says. “So we’re gonna see what happens in the future. What condition is the Federation in? We’re gonna find out when we land. What happens to me and my rank? I’m a Commander, but I’m also acting Captain of the ship because we lost all our captains now. I take the ship and so, do I get to keep the Captain’s chair? Do I have to give it away to another Federation/ Starfleet captain in the future? We’re gonna find out all that when we get there.”

How the future of the Federation affects Discovery’s third season remains to be seen. Jonathan Frakes will return to direct two more episodes of the show in its third season. He teased at a recent convention appearance that Discovery will have more of the familiar Star Trek optimism in its third season.

“I can tell you this much about season three of Discovery: It is in fact much more optimistic,” Frakes said. “They’ve gotten themselves out of the Mirror Universe... After Gene died, some of the writers decided that Deep Space Nine should maybe take a different tone, which, I think, it did to certain degrees of success. The optimism that Gene infused in all of his shows and in all of us may not be as obvious as it once was, but it’s certainly the driving force of his vision and the franchise and [Alex] Kurtzman and all the people who run our shows are very conscious that that canon is important to all of you and all of us. JJ [Abram]’s movies, I thought, were very uplifting and wonderfully told stories. There needs to be conflict to make drama. So I’m here to share that Discovery certainly is taking a more optimistic, traditional Star Trek approach in next season.”
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,200
empires always rise and fall to think it wouldn't happen to the federation is naive beside just think of the cheesy opening monologue

''The long night has come. The Systems Commonwealth United Federation of planets, the greatest civilization in history, has fallen. Now one ship, one crew, have vowed to drive back the night and rekindle the light of civilization. On the starship Andromeda Discovery... hope lives again ''
😜
Thing is that kind of premise kind of goes against the entire theme of Star Trek being about a positive and hopeful future. There's dozens of grim and dark Sci-Fi shows out there and the last thing we need is Star Trek to become another one.

It's 140 years past anything we know about the Federation, it could go to shit in that time span. But I agree that I hope that isn't where it goes. Also the future of Calypso doesn't make sense because Disco was abandoned for a 1000 years, so it'd have to go back in time at one point to be abandon, it could just be an alternate timeline.
I'm not sure 140 years (Is it even that long? Was there a definite date in Enterprise beside 31st Century?) is enough time for something as vast as the Federation would be at that time to fall into chaos. By that point in time it's going to cover a fairly good chunk of the Milky Way most likely.

Ugh, that to me kind of says it is going to go towards an Andromeda style "It's gone to shit and a ship from the past has to restore it" kind of story....
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,200
Wow, I got the complete opposite impression from that. It reassured me it wouldn't be the case
It was this bit that kinda makes me doubtful,

"After Gene died, some of the writers decided that Deep Space Nine should maybe take a different tone, which, I think, it did to certain degrees of success. The optimism that Gene infused in all of his shows and in all of us may not be as obvious as it once was"

I just kinda get the feeling they're trying to set up "Discovery is the shining optimism in a grim dark future".
I also can't think if many other explanations for why the 32nd Century Federation can't just send Discovery back in time within seconds.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
8,311
My worry for Discovery season 3 is that they think "Oh we can do what we want now since we're way put of canon", which isn't the case.

We've already had examples of 31st Century Star Trek after all where we know the Federation is alive and well and bigger than ever. My other worry is that they're going to go with some "It's the 32nd Century and everything has gone to shit" style plot, which they already alluded to in that short set in the future where it seemed to imply the galaxy had fallen to chaos and the Federation had turned into some kind of Star Wars like Empire. That would also be the only real explanation for why Discovery couldn't just be sent straight back in time since in the 31st Century time travel is so easy that High Schoolers can literally make communicators that can talk to the past.

Not only does that contradict what we know of the future though, but it also contradicts the general theme of Star Trek being about a hopeful and positive future.
Discovery ends up meeting Hercules in Space Andromeda.

 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,492
You are all putting way more effort into this than Discovery's writers will. They'll handwave whatever doesn't fit their story and that's it.
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
706
There's no guarantee that the Enterprise vision of the 31st century or whatever will be intact. Timey wimey stuff could have altered the timeline.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,757
I also can't think if many other explanations for why the 32nd Century Federation can't just send Discovery back in time within seconds.
That the easy one. The Discovery crew don't want to travel back in time, they want to keep the sphere data in the future. Even though Control was destroyed they didn't abort the time travel in S2 finale.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,520
I also can't think if many other explanations for why the 32nd Century Federation can't just send Discovery back in time within seconds.
That the easy one. The Discovery crew don't want to travel back in time, they want to keep the sphere data in the future. Even though Control was destroyed they didn't abort the time travel in S2 finale.
I assume it'll use the STO explanation where history recorded them lost so sending them back would cause more trouble to the timeline than allowing them to stay.

If they actually stay and exist in some utopian future. lol
 
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rzmunch

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,753
Argentina
Hello! Never watched more than 1 or 2 episodes of Star Trek. I'm now watching the TV series in release order (I'm at episode 10 of the original) and will watch the movies. I guess I have entertainment for months.
I'm really liking the original (it's very dated in some thing but I can enjoy it). Should I expect some disapointment with some of the series?

I'll skip the animated series, the only problem I have is when to watch the movies.

Is this ok? Please advice.

TOS → movies 1 a 6 → TNG --> movie 7 (Star Trek Generations) movie 8 (Star Trek: First Contact) → DS9 movie 9 (Star Trek: Insurrection) → movie 10 (Star Trek Nemesis)→ ENT movies 11 a 13 --> DISCOVERY
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,492
Hello! Never watched more than 1 or 2 episodes of Star Trek. I'm now watching the TV series in release order (I'm at episode 10 of the original) and will watch the movies. I guess I have entertainment for months.
I'm really liking the original (it's very dated in some thing but I can enjoy it). Should I expect some disapointment with some of the series?

I'll skip the animated series, the only problem I have is when to watch the movies.

Is this ok? Please advice.

TOS → movies 1 a 6 → TNG --> movie 7 (Star Trek Generations) movie 8 (Star Trek: First Contact) → DS9 movie 9 (Star Trek: Insurrection) → movie 10 (Star Trek Nemesis)→ ENT movies 11 a 13 --> DISCOVERY
You're missing one series, Voyager. I would recommend pushing First Contact after DS9, the rest seem fine. If you're enjoying TOS then I think you'll enjoy every series. The quality undoubtedly declines after DS9 but there's still a lot of fun to be had. Also, once you're done make sure to watch Babylon 5.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,757
Is Combs the best guest star on Trek? Yes...yes he is

Every Star Trek Character Played By Jeffrey Combs, Ranked

I had no idea he was so many characters lol and apparently Shran would have found himself on the bridge if Enterprise got a 5th season....what could have been :(
I feel the 'first actor to play 2 characters in an episode' thing has gotta be false. Will/Tom Riker and the holodeck full of Datas spring to mind for two things.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,492
Jeffrey Combs is incredible. Playing two very different characters and making them so memorable and charismatic is no easy task.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,757
Hello! Never watched more than 1 or 2 episodes of Star Trek. I'm now watching the TV series in release order (I'm at episode 10 of the original) and will watch the movies. I guess I have entertainment for months.
I'm really liking the original (it's very dated in some thing but I can enjoy it). Should I expect some disapointment with some of the series?

I'll skip the animated series, the only problem I have is when to watch the movies.

Is this ok? Please advice.

TOS → movies 1 a 6 → TNG --> movie 7 (Star Trek Generations) movie 8 (Star Trek: First Contact) → DS9 movie 9 (Star Trek: Insurrection) → movie 10 (Star Trek Nemesis)→ ENT movies 11 a 13 --> DISCOVERY
You're missing Voyager, if you're watch in release order you'd need watch S1+2 of DS9, then S1 Voyager, S3 DS9, S2 Voyager, S4 DS9 and so on.

I'd say at least watch up to S3, ep1 of Voyager (Basics part 2) before First Contact, just so you understand a small moment from the movie. Watch DS9 S6 before Insurrection, and all of Voyager before Nemesis.
 

rzmunch

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,753
Argentina
You're missing one series, Voyager. I would recommend pushing First Contact after DS9, the rest seem fine. If you're enjoying TOS then I think you'll enjoy every series. The quality undoubtedly declines after DS9 but there's still a lot of fun to be had. Also, once you're done make sure to watch Babylon 5.
Yeah I forgot Voyager. Thanks for your help!

Something like this?

TOS → movies 1 a 6 → TNG --> movie 7 (Star Trek Generations) → DS9 movie 8 (Star Trek: First Contact) movie 9 (Star Trek: Insurrection) → VOY → movie 10 (Star Trek Nemesis)→ ENT movies 11 a 13 --> DISCOVERY

You're missing Voyager, if you're watch in release order you'd need watch S1+2 of DS9, then S1 Voyager, S3 DS9, S2 Voyager, S4 DS9 and so on.

I'd say at least watch up to S3, ep1 of Voyager (Basics part 2) before First Contact, just so you understand a small moment from the movie. Watch DS9 S6 before Insurrection, and all of Voyager before Nemesis.
I was thinking about watching a complete series before watching another, its better to mix seasons?