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Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
- Start date
I loved the new short and glad they created some new characters for this, Rosa and Jon especially were hilarious, and that stupid 80s commercial lol
The Canadian election thread is thattaway! This is the Star Trek thread!
LMAO.
I thought you was maybe talking about a podcast, or Youtubes who are fans of ST.
Haha for the Star Trek context, imagine the Midnight's Edge of Canadian News. lol
My Voyager watch is not going well. It's the only one I'm missing, so I figured I could just grind it out, but I'll watch and episode or two, then find an excuse to not watch for awhile. Two seasons has taken me longer than the entirety of DS9. I've always liked the concept and premise, but digging in, and trying to settle in with the characters so far has been a chore. Overall, they just aren't that compelling. So far anyway. The Doctor is cool, Janeway and Tuvok have their moments, albiet rare, and I find Kess pretty tolerable. Chakotay, Paris, and Kim though? Like, what are they even doing? And Nelix... I think he was meant to be endearing, but just comes off annoying as shit.
That said, I don't hate it. It still "Trek" enough to scratch the itch, and I know I'll get through eventually. On to season 3...
That said, I don't hate it. It still "Trek" enough to scratch the itch, and I know I'll get through eventually. On to season 3...
Like TNG and DS9 before it the early seasons are by far the weakest and it's not until Season 3/4 that the show finds itself and hits its stride.
Voyager is the worst star trek, and what you are experiencing is natural. The 4 characters you pinpoint as bad never really get better. Seven of nine will join in a few seasons and the show does improve with her.
You're probably burning out watching so much Trek in a short period, especially needing start a whole new show. That said, S1+2 like TNG and DS9 aren't great. S3 gets a lot better, and 4 even more so.
Neelix is pretty awful until he gets over his jealousy issues, which I think should be done by where you're at.
Voyager is the most popular and rewatched Trek, so keep with it.
Just like PewDiePie or Justin Bieber this doesn't translate to quality
BBC American plays Star Trek TOS, TNG or Voyager in the mornings, I think Voyager is super accessible and that's why it's so popular, It's not my favorite by any means but I still enjoy watching it when it's on, Seven, The Doctor, Janeway to a certain extent are all great characters.
Definitely the best in that cast, though I also enjoy Tuvok and B'Elanna usually.
I actually really like B'Elanna and Paris as a couple and Tuvok has some great episodes when he's the focus but those are rare.
Yawn. There's no bad Trek, just ones you like the least. Doesn't mean it's terrible
Yeah, that's true for a lot of shows, and not just Trek.
lol, I haven't seen S2 of Discovery yet, but I actually really enjoyed S1.
I'm no doubt sticking with it. As I said, there's still enough there.
In regard to early TNG, I still love the first couple seasons, but I do understand that's nostalgia kicking my ass. That's the one I grew up with (and TOS to a lesser extent), so even though age has wizened me on the lack of quality early on... there's still something about it I enjoy.
I skipped S1 in my rewatch, but S2 isn't that bad and actually has a couple of the best episodes of the series.
Considering that the frame of reference at that point was TOS and the movies, I'd imagine that the first two seasons of TNG felt like par for the course.
TOS was basically just an entire series' worth of S1/S2 tier TNG episodes.
TOS was basically just an entire series' worth of S1/S2 tier TNG episodes.
In what sense?
We all knew Code of Honor and Angel One were shit.
When Best of Both Worlds happened, we had to wait months to see the result In Part 2. Mostly people accepted the Kirk-persona moving to Riker and liked Picard. Conspiracy was shocking but not really in a bad way. Pulaski wasn't popular because the writing was off target for her.
As some who did, they were good or even great at the time.
But TNG getting better, then having DS9, VOY and Enterprise follow TNG up gave a lot more to compare to than just a 20+ year old TOS and a few movies.
I've only just gotten into Star Trek the last few years, all the controversy, fans unhappy that it wasn't the adventures of Kirk and co again, the changing writers and producers, some episodes being amazing and some being shit, the eventual rise to glory with season three. I can only imagine how insane the internet would have been if it were as popular around as it was now
That's a pretty apt comparison from what I can remember. I'm not saying it was identical, but there was certainly some overlap in some of the criticisms. Granted I was fairly young, and the consumption of media, especially in regard to fan feedback, was of course far different and less immediate than it is now.
I don't really think the comparison holds up. When TNG first came along it had a lot less baggage to deal with, a lot less canon and world building that had come before it and was much more free to do it's own thing.
Discovery on the other hand had the difficult task of needing to take a LOT more into account, a problem that so far the writers have shown they really just didn't give a fuck about and, at times, seemed to take delight in exacerbating.
What gets me is that a lot of the problems of Seasons 1 and 2 of Discovery could have been solved by just making it not a prequel and setting it post-Nemesis instead. You would have needed minor alterations to the plot at best.
Season 1 could've been explained as a deterioration in Federation/Klingon relations due to someone seizing power because Martok was seen as a Federation loving pacifist, or even borrowing from Star Trek Online's plot and saying that when the Federation objected to the Klingons taking advantage of the destruction of Romulus it caused a breakdown in relations.
Season 2 could have been almost entirely unaltered. Throw in something about Section 31 getting desperate because of DS9's crew actions making them targets, so they started screwing with Borg tech and you've suddenly got Control. Minor alterations and you solve the problems of the Spore Drive being just fucking stupid in a pre-TOS setting, Section 31 being all official and having a fleet being fucking stupid, and solve all the criticisms of everything seeming too advanced.
The only thing you'd have lost was Burnham being Spock's adopted sister, which was utterly pointless anyway and nothing more than a way to shoehorn in some familiar names. The show would lost absolutely nothing from that element being removed.
If you were that desperate to shove in something like that make her Tuvok's adopted sister instead.
Well we know Disco has suffered through a ton of back stage production issues, they probably patched things up as best they could and now finally have a clean slate although people have already complained about canon....., but yes they ignored some pretty basic things that was really dumb (like the Enterprise repair bots....)
The ship already cleans itself so how is it a stretch that it also can make external repair without some poor redshirt going out?
Because in the 24th century we see people still do exactly that.
The reaction to TNG was absolutely nothing like what Discovery's reaction has been.
Pretty much all the negativity to TNG was because it was not the TOS crew and ship, not TNG itself. Nobody is complaining STD doesn't star the crew of a previous show, they are nearly 100% complaining about its content.
It's pretty much the opposite.
IMO, "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was a bigger recipe for disaster than "Star Trek: Discovery" was.
The original "Star Trek" was canned in 1969, and for ten years (aside from the minor blip of The Animated Series) the franchise lived as "fan property" like nothing else in pop culture history (Star Trek fans basically invented nerd culture). Star Trek fans were practically keeping the typecast artists of the TOS crew alive through their grassroots support.
And then the actors finally won one with The Motion Picture in 1979. The Wrath of Khan was incredible for Trekkies in 1982. The Search for Spock (1984) was a bit of a letdown as a movie, but... it's Spock. How can you not line up for Spock after what happened in Star Trek 2? (We full soap opera now.) And then Star Trek 4 (1986) was just a fun romp with the TOS cast of actors (which actually had something legitimately political to say about 1980's society, and wasn't afraid to say it loudly).
At this point in time (1987), Trekkies were primed to believe that they had an important role in the franchise, and that the TOS actors were at the heart of the franchise.
And then the studio goes and pushes a full-blown reboot.
TNG won angry fans over by being pretty great (to the point where people got into heretofore-blasphemous arguments about whether Captain Picard was legitimately better than The Legendary Captain Kirk), and every show since then (including the JJ Abrams movies, and the recast Spock in Discovery) owes TNG a great debt for getting past that first hurdle.
Discovery's problem seems to be that it's not winning fans. Or maybe more accurately, it's being received divisively, and it's winning some fans while losing others. It should probably also be mentioned that Discovery seems to be a major target of "culture war" bullshit, but it feels like the culture war has been following Star Trek around since at least TOS's first interracial kiss on broadcast television. Although the culture war might be getting louder/more heated. Then again, the KKK was actively doing domestic terrorism (killings, bombings) during TOS's original run in the 1960's.
The original "Star Trek" was canned in 1969, and for ten years (aside from the minor blip of The Animated Series) the franchise lived as "fan property" like nothing else in pop culture history (Star Trek fans basically invented nerd culture). Star Trek fans were practically keeping the typecast artists of the TOS crew alive through their grassroots support.
And then the actors finally won one with The Motion Picture in 1979. The Wrath of Khan was incredible for Trekkies in 1982. The Search for Spock (1984) was a bit of a letdown as a movie, but... it's Spock. How can you not line up for Spock after what happened in Star Trek 2? (We full soap opera now.) And then Star Trek 4 (1986) was just a fun romp with the TOS cast of actors (which actually had something legitimately political to say about 1980's society, and wasn't afraid to say it loudly).
At this point in time (1987), Trekkies were primed to believe that they had an important role in the franchise, and that the TOS actors were at the heart of the franchise.
And then the studio goes and pushes a full-blown reboot.
TNG won angry fans over by being pretty great (to the point where people got into heretofore-blasphemous arguments about whether Captain Picard was legitimately better than The Legendary Captain Kirk), and every show since then (including the JJ Abrams movies, and the recast Spock in Discovery) owes TNG a great debt for getting past that first hurdle.
Discovery's problem seems to be that it's not winning fans. Or maybe more accurately, it's being received divisively, and it's winning some fans while losing others. It should probably also be mentioned that Discovery seems to be a major target of "culture war" bullshit, but it feels like the culture war has been following Star Trek around since at least TOS's first interracial kiss on broadcast television. Although the culture war might be getting louder/more heated. Then again, the KKK was actively doing domestic terrorism (killings, bombings) during TOS's original run in the 1960's.
A lot of the complaints about Discovery tend to be an alt-right tilted anti-SJW sort of junk. In particular on YouTube.
For example Red Letter Media and Midnights Edge both push HARD the anti-feminist anti-"SJW" dog whistles against Discovery. TNG didn't have to deal with this bullshit.
The alt-right may latch on to anything, it doesn't mean that we have to shut down every discussion. The overwhelming majority of Star Trek fans grew up watching shows that presented an enlightened future of a united humanity. These people didn't become alt-right overnight because they don't like Discovery. When the network rejected the idea of a woman as captain for Voyager, Star Trek fans campaigned to reverse that decision and they succeeded. Part of Star Trek fandom being unhappy with Discovery's writing means absolutely nothing for their political leanings. By all means criticize those with an agenda but let the rest of us express our opinion without pulling the alt-right card as a means of deflecting criticism.
The biggest issue I have with Discovery is that it feels like I'm watching a generic action adventure Sci-Fi show with a Star Trek coat of paint on top instead of Star Trek (pretty much like the reboot movie series, with Beyond the only one that kinda felt like Star Trek). At least The Orville exists, which actually feels like I'm watching Star Trek (with more comedy).
In the last couple of months I just started re-watching Trek in chronological order. For background I watched repeats of TOS when I was younger and parts of TNG whilst growing up (36 now). I never really got into Trek being a massive Doctor Who fan but I always admired what it was going for. After seeing the original trailer for Picard I knew I had to give Trek another go. Atm I'm about a quarter of the way through season 4 of Enterprise which I've actually enjoyed more than I thought I would. It's not perfect but when it gets it right I've thoroughly enjoyed the ride. I already know how it ends preventing being pissed off right at the end. After I finish that I'll move on to Discovery seasons 1 & 2 before hitting TOS. Using a guide that has the all the TV series (inc the intersections of TNG/DS9/Voyager, going to be changing lots of discs at that point!) and movies in star date order (or as best as can be managed).
I'm just going to keep an open mind, I mean lets face it I've watched every era of Doctor Who (well the bits that survived the junking...thank fuck for loose cannon reconstructions and animations) and I've endure lots of clunkers there that don't put me off the gems.
I'm just going to keep an open mind, I mean lets face it I've watched every era of Doctor Who (well the bits that survived the junking...thank fuck for loose cannon reconstructions and animations) and I've endure lots of clunkers there that don't put me off the gems.
If you have a Netflix sub watch TNG there (with others) unless you have any HD footage already. Watching TNG on Flix was a treat
Buying the blu ray boxset end of this month. Love owning tv series physical releases for shows I enjoy. For reference I have the full classic DVD releases for Doctor Who and I'm buying up the blu ray collection series as it comes out. (lets just say by the time Season 26 comes out I'll have three different releases of it!). I know I'll be limited to DVD for DS9 and Voyager but that doesn't bother me.
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