How did that end up? It was one ship that had a cloak. Do the Klingons still have that ship and that technology, or was it always held as a carrot and then destroyed? I forget exactly what happened by the end of the Klingon war.
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Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
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Klingons started spreading the cloak to anyone that gave allegiance to Kol, then Disco does the 133 jumps to figure out how to break the cloak and goes to MU, comes back, gives the frequencies to Starfleet and they start destroying the Klingons effectively ending the war.
The bolded never happened though. The Klingons were on Earth's doorstop in the finale with no resistance. Was the nuke Qo'nos threat that ended the war.
wait you're right, I don't know why I remembered it that way, they still broke the cloak though.
I think the issue was that they broke it, but but the time they did it was too late to be really useful due to the losses Starfleet had sustained.
Oh right they get there like 9 months later or something, I'm currently doing a rewatch but I just got to the MU part.
That and in the case of the show, it takes the general notion that Earth is relatively close to the Klingon border, with the bulk of Federation space 'behind' it in that relative positioning. Think like if a hypothetical force invaded the US on the East Coast - it isn't that far to get to DC from there.
Yes, though Discovery's writers absolutely need to pay better attention to it. A few little mistakes here and there are fine, but the reality of writing a show like Star Trek is that you don't just go off and do whatever the hell you want when you're doing a prequel series. Like it or not they've got over a hundred years worth of stuff that comes later that they can't go out of their way to contradict because they want to do something better.
To their credit they have said they are very much aware of this and said they are addressing it in Season 2.
Ok I just finished my rewatch of Disco and in the episode where they come back, Admiral Cornwell confirms they sent the Klingon decryption thing to everyone left in the fleet but that it was probably too little too late. So that thing posted earlier about the Romulans giving the cloaking stuff to the Klingons can still hold true.
Edit: Just saw this on twitter,
Star Trek kid meals at McDs, that's crazy to me.
Edit: Just saw this on twitter,
Star Trek kid meals at McDs, that's crazy to me.
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The only thing I really pay attention is the big events. You can't have something happen and then ignore it. At the same time just because something wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it couldn't have happen. No one talks about all aspects of history all the time. Only the relevant stuff would get talked about based on what you're doing. This is why I never once freaked out of the war that took place in Discovery. I also don't think shows should be held to TOS when that show contradicted itself many times and was in no way planning on sequels. I feel like there are a number of key episodes that are super important with TOS and the rest is a wash.
I've always felt TOS was the odd duck. It started everything but it's the one piece that doesn't fit. It hasn't fit for a very long time. So if you have to retcon it then so be I feel. I know some might find that blasphemous. If just think if it gets in the way of telling a good story in or around that time period or after then it should lose out if necessary. Like don't go out of your way to break with it but if some dialogue in a random episode that isn't to important needs to be tossed then do it. I already think the overall look of TOS should be ignored and I'm glad Discovery looks the way it does. I'm super happy they pulled the trigger on that super early and haven't back down from it.
I've always felt TOS was the odd duck. It started everything but it's the one piece that doesn't fit. It hasn't fit for a very long time. So if you have to retcon it then so be I feel. I know some might find that blasphemous. If just think if it gets in the way of telling a good story in or around that time period or after then it should lose out if necessary. Like don't go out of your way to break with it but if some dialogue in a random episode that isn't to important needs to be tossed then do it. I already think the overall look of TOS should be ignored and I'm glad Discovery looks the way it does. I'm super happy they pulled the trigger on that super early and haven't back down from it.
Almost forgot how amazing the HD release of this was after watching DS9 on Netflix.
that's awesome lol
Also I'm doing a rewatch of Enterprise S3 and Netflixs skip intro is a life saver!
You make many good points. I just wanted to comment that the Klingon war and major lose were mentioned in TOS. Including the names of systems also mentioned in Discovery.
So I'm rewatched Enterprise season 3 and I really like T'Pol and her relationship with Archer, they should have explored that further than her and Trip, I know they couldn't end up together since the whole Amanda/Sarek thing but still would have been more interesting. I also noticed that ENT wasn't shy about using CGI lol
Why does Janeway get more shit for Tuvix than Archer does for Sim (Trip clone). If he only needed him to help with the current situation he should have let the clone live out his life after they got out of that area they were stuck in and let OG Trip die. At least Janeway didn't create Tuvix, she was basing her decision on correcting the mistake and bringing back Tuvok and Neelix. Archer straight up told Sim he would murder his ass if he didn't sacrifice himself.
Michelle Yeoh led Star Trek show!
This seriously is shaping up to be a new golden age of Star Trek. 3 live action shows at once plus multiple animated shows in development. I never dreamed we would have it so good after witnessing Enterprise get canceled back in 2005.
This seriously is shaping up to be a new golden age of Star Trek. 3 live action shows at once plus multiple animated shows in development. I never dreamed we would have it so good after witnessing Enterprise get canceled back in 2005.
I think more people have seen Voyager.
The thing with Sim was bad. At least DS9 time came around, they agreed that killing a clone was murder.
That's a good point, but yeah what he did was far more awful than anything Janeway did.
I had the strangest damn Star Trek dream the other night. The Picard series premiered, and it was called, like, STAR TREK SOMA PARABELLUM...
And anyway, the opening sequence involved some bizarrely goofy aliens beaming aboard the bridge of the Enterprise-E. Picard, Riker, Troi, LaForge, Data, and Tuvok were all there, and probably some others I'm forgetting, but Troi got vaporized and Tuvok literally had his jaw ripped open and died in excruciating pain. Picard ordered the survivors to abandon ship and it flashed forward a few years to some lame young male character in a bar on Earth drinking away his worries who I guess was going to become a leading character? And the whole area outside the bar was, for some reason, completely destitute and there was a strange spraypainted message on the hull of an abandoned old seafaring ship that said "THE SOUTH NEVER FORGETS" and I was so confused.
...I hope Jennifer Lien is doing well these days...
And anyway, the opening sequence involved some bizarrely goofy aliens beaming aboard the bridge of the Enterprise-E. Picard, Riker, Troi, LaForge, Data, and Tuvok were all there, and probably some others I'm forgetting, but Troi got vaporized and Tuvok literally had his jaw ripped open and died in excruciating pain. Picard ordered the survivors to abandon ship and it flashed forward a few years to some lame young male character in a bar on Earth drinking away his worries who I guess was going to become a leading character? And the whole area outside the bar was, for some reason, completely destitute and there was a strange spraypainted message on the hull of an abandoned old seafaring ship that said "THE SOUTH NEVER FORGETS" and I was so confused.
...I hope Jennifer Lien is doing well these days...
The last thing I heard was she was arrested for driving with a revoked license in March last year, the license having been revoked for a DUI.
That's the most recent thing I can find on her.
Janeway did nothing wrong there. She was obligated to help two members of her crew (and I liked Tuvok far more than Tuvix).
She shouldn't get shit for Tuvix at all. Both Tuvok and Neelix say they didn't want to stay as him, so the fact Tuvix said they did makes him either a liar, or suffering mentally as well as physically from the transporter accident. All she did was cure two people.
I agree but I've seen it used against her a ton and it doesn't really make sense.
She killed a sentient being that committed no crime against his will. One that she had no authority to even order to his death, let alone execute him. Sentient beings have rights, especially when Janeway says they are going to follow the Starfleet way. That means Tuvix has all the rights granted by the Federation. She wouldn't execute Suder who was a murderer but then murders Tuvix because she wants her friend back?
Archer intended to do the same, but Sim lets him off the hook by going willingly. Archer is an idiot that let his dog pee on a sacred tree during first contact. He should be mocked worse than Janeway but only 5 people watched Enterprise.
Archer intended to do the same, but Sim lets him off the hook by going willingly. Archer is an idiot that let his dog pee on a sacred tree during first contact. He should be mocked worse than Janeway but only 5 people watched Enterprise.
I always loved this particular scene since the Tomalak side of the conversation was shot to respect the concept that the viewscreen is actually a three dimensional display. It's the only one I explicitly remember noticing it in, though I guess they probably do it elsewhere, but I think we rarely get shots of people on the viewscreen from a non-straight on shot.
More likely, of course, they shoot it like that, because it would look stupid otherwise if they just skewed it.
She didn't kill anyway, she cured two people suffering from a transporter accident. After it done we find they didn't want to remain joined so it wasn't against their will, the fact Tuvix said it was just shows he was mentally unfit as part of the accident.
Are you denying that Tuvix was a sentient being? If he was then it absolutely was murder.
Even though he was, it was an accident, what were they going to tell their Tuvoks family? Yeah we can reverse your dad to his original form but Tuvix doesn't want to. Janeway did the right thing, Archer was completely in the wrong the entire time. He never should have made Sim.
Tuvix was two insufferable people being turned into one very versatile and valuable person.
But morality shouldn't depend on which version is better liked by the crew.
He still objected to the procedure and should never have been forced. It's not like he was evaluated by mental health professionals and declared incompetent - the Doctor refused to do it on ethical grounds, and the Doctor was right. Patient choice is important.
But morality shouldn't depend on which version is better liked by the crew.
He still objected to the procedure and should never have been forced. It's not like he was evaluated by mental health professionals and declared incompetent - the Doctor refused to do it on ethical grounds, and the Doctor was right. Patient choice is important.
Tuvok and Neelix saying they didn't want to remain joined shows that Tuvix was mentally unfit though. If he really was the two joined with their thoughts then he shouldn't have wanted to stay joined.
The best part of Tuvix is the fact that Janeway absolutely isn't right in her decision (or necessarily wrong depending how you look at it) and she knows that. That added a lot to Janeway's character to me and ranks pretty high in all time Trek moments.
This conversation on Tuvix just goes to show how impossible the decision Janeway had to make was. She made a decision and stuck to it which is more than what some leaders would do.
Which only shows the writers had no gonads.
It doesn't change the fact that in the moment, the choice was wrong with the information available.
And my argument was that what Archer did was far worse lol
Also Tuvix being sentient doesn't mean she had to follow starfleet protocols he wasn't some new alien life form they discovered. It was an accident.
Archer and Janeway were both in impossible positions.
Janeway had to weigh Tuvix against the safety of the rest of the crew and how Tuvok increased the chances of getting home.
Archer had not only his crew to worry about, but the survival of the entire human race. He needed his chief engineer to save humanity.
Also, didn't Sim have an incredibly short lifespan? Had Archer done nothing then Sim would have died within days and the organ they needed that he was created in the first place for would have been useless in saving Trip, ending with them both dying pointless deaths and likely the end of humanity.
Janeway had to weigh Tuvix against the safety of the rest of the crew and how Tuvok increased the chances of getting home.
Archer had not only his crew to worry about, but the survival of the entire human race. He needed his chief engineer to save humanity.
Also, didn't Sim have an incredibly short lifespan? Had Archer done nothing then Sim would have died within days and the organ they needed that he was created in the first place for would have been useless in saving Trip, ending with them both dying pointless deaths and likely the end of humanity.