Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 1, 2019

Lakeside said:
Oh man I can't believe I missed this thread until now.

My daughter has followed in the footsteps with enjoying Star Trek, and she's seen everything up until Enterprise. She's 13 so Enterprise would be ok, but I'm afraid those scenes will be awkward. I haven't watched it since it aired.. am I making more of it than it was?

Common Sense Media says 8+ but that seems awfully young for some of those shameless scenes.

It's not terrible especially by modern standards, although I do remember being 13-14 when it aired and being a bit embarrassed I was watching it with my parents. It's more cringey for being gratuitous than it is anything else. You can have a fun talk with her about bad storytelling and shameless pandering afterwards and turn it into a learning experience.

StallionDan · Feb 2, 2019

Lakeside said:
Oh man I can't believe I missed this thread until now.

My daughter has followed in the footsteps with enjoying Star Trek, and she's seen everything up until Enterprise. She's 13 so Enterprise would be ok, but I'm afraid those scenes will be awkward. I haven't watched it since it aired.. am I making more of it than it was?

Common Sense Media says 8+ but that seems awfully young for some of those shameless scenes.

At 13 it's fine imo. It's very tame and not done in a distasteful or perverted way, it's just that it didn't need be done and it clear why they did it was not narrative purposes.

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 2, 2019

StallionDan said:
At 13 it's fine imo. It's very tame and not done in a distasteful or perverted way, it's just that it didn't need be done and it clear why they did it was not narrative purposes.

I think the decon gel stuff could have worked. It cemented how primitive and more akin to modern astronauts the crew sometimes were. And you could still have gotten some eye candy. But instead of being shot matter-of-fact like the rest of the show the camera clearly betrayed intent.

StallionDan · Feb 2, 2019

fuchsdh said:
I think the decon gel stuff could have worked. It cemented how primitive and more akin to modern astronauts the crew sometimes were. And you could still have gotten some eye candy. But instead of being shot matter-of-fact like the rest of the show the camera clearly betrayed intent.

Those scenes not even an issue for me as they at least have reason to exist.

It stuff like when doing the neuro-pressure and she just takes off her entire top, and then scenes when she strips naked entirely and shows her ass, yeah it a prelude to sex scene but it not needed to show so much. It done because they want to show sexy naked Vulcan lady.

I'm not even against shows doing such things, I love the Spartacus series which is full of sex and nudity, but it fits there, it just that in Enterprise it felt totally out of place.

Meus Renaissance · Feb 2, 2019

Duplicate

Lakeside · Feb 2, 2019

StallionDan said:
Those scenes not even an issue for me as they at least have reason to exist.

It stuff like when doing the neuro-pressure and she just takes off her entire top, and then scenes when she strips naked entirely and shows her ass, yeah it a prelude to sex scene but it not needed to show so much. It done because they want to show sexy naked Vulcan lady.

I'm not even against shows doing such things, I love the Spartacus series which is full of sex and nudity, but it fits there, it just that in Enterprise it felt totally out of place.

That's probably why after all these years it stands out to me. They must have just been in the downward spiral and were trying to do anything to boost ratings. It's a shame because the show got so good late.

BrokenFiction · Feb 3, 2019

Opinions?

What do y'all think is the best movie boxed set to get? This one comes out on Tuesday:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KH36F8W

DBT85 · Feb 3, 2019

Lakeside said:
Oh man I can't believe I missed this thread until now.

My daughter has followed in the footsteps with enjoying Star Trek, and she's seen everything up until Enterprise. She's 13 so Enterprise would be ok, but I'm afraid those scenes will be awkward. I haven't watched it since it aired.. am I making more of it than it was?

Common Sense Media says 8+ but that seems awfully young for some of those shameless scenes.

I'd imagine she might not see those scenes in the same way they were intended (lol nerds don;t get gurls so show them gurls to get ratings) or how a 14 year old boy might if watching with his parents. Could be wrong of course.

firehawk12 · Feb 3, 2019

BrokenFiction said:
Opinions?

What do y'all think is the best movie boxed set to get? This one comes out on Tuesday:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KH36F8W

The problem is that the original DVD releases are still the "best" in terms of content... but I mean, if you want to have them on BD, there isn't really much choice.

Himynameischris · Feb 4, 2019

Never realized how tiny Voyager was

CommodoreKong · Feb 4, 2019

Himynameischris said:
Never realized how tiny Voyager was

They had to put 10 people to a single standard sized quarters to fit all of those extra shuttlecraft on the ship.

butalala · Feb 4, 2019

Are the -F and -G from ST online?

JonnyDBrit · Feb 4, 2019

butalala said:
Are the -F and -G from ST online?

Nope. They're from Star Trek Renaissance, a fan fiction series, that is hosted by the site that also compiled that chart. This is STO's:

One admitted annoyance of just how prevalent fan created content is for this, well, fandom, is that you get a lot of unofficial material mixed in with official stuff, as a mark of attempted validity for the relevant community.

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 4, 2019

Himynameischris said:
Never realized how tiny Voyager was

Not really that tiny, when you consider it's substantially larger than the original 1701 which had more than twice as many crew aboard.

BrokenFiction · Feb 4, 2019

firehawk12 said:
The problem is that the original DVD releases are still the "best" in terms of content... but I mean, if you want to have them on BD, there isn't really much choice.

What do you mean by content? Also, I do want BR at least (in absence of 4k releases).

butalala · Feb 4, 2019

JonnyDBrit said:
Nope. They're from Star Trek Renaissance, a fan fiction series, that is hosted by the site that also compiled that chart. This is STO's:

One admitted annoyance of just how prevalent fan created content is for this, well, fandom, is that you get a lot of unofficial material mixed in with official stuff, as a mark of attempted validity for the relevant community.

Ok, thanks! I thought STO had better designs than the chart did.

Himynameischris · Feb 4, 2019

fuchsdh said:
Not really that tiny, when you consider it's substantially larger than the original 1701 which had more than twice as many crew aboard.

Well I mean compared to the Enterprise at the time.

Also I just realized that chart lists the decommission date of the NX-01 as ???? but in the final Enterprise episode they said they were decommissioning it after 10 years. Which I thought was odd, 10 years seems like a short amount of time for a ship.

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 4, 2019

Himynameischris said:
Well I mean compared to the Enterprise at the time.

Also I just realized that chart lists the decommission date of the NX-01 as ???? but in the final Enterprise episode they said they were decommissioning it after 10 years. Which I thought was odd, 10 years seems like a short amount of time for a ship.

It really depends, both on the ethos of the people maintaining the fleet and also on the technology involved. There might have been such rapid developments with the NX class that it wasn't feasible (or considered feasible) to retrofit the NX-01. Meanwhile, the 1701 refit was basically a nearly new ship, but they were fine doing it.

I brought it up in a /r/DaystromInstitute post, but there's literally a Russian ship that was launched when there was a Russian Empire with a czar, and their Soyuz craft are still lifting people up into space after our own shuttles are grounded. What you view as the longevity of your tech really is a cultural thing more than anything else, and I can see Starfleet having its own waxing and waning on that subject (but given the fact that they're still using 80–100 year old space frames, it's clear that generally they believe in repurposing and refurbishment.)

BrokenFiction · Feb 4, 2019

Rad Bandolar · Feb 4, 2019

Himynameischris said:
Well I mean compared to the Enterprise at the time.

Also I just realized that chart lists the decommission date of the NX-01 as ???? but in the final Enterprise episode they said they were decommissioning it after 10 years. Which I thought was odd, 10 years seems like a short amount of time for a ship.

It could be that since it was an experimental ship with a lot of new technology, it had a shorter service life, as a lot of lessons were being learned at a fast pace and starship development quickly leap-frogged it.

Once the Federation was established, different and possibly more advanced tech & designs from the other species were likely incorporated as well, which also would've hastened its retirement.

Plus, it was the first real flagship of the Earth Starfleet, so they probably wanted to retain it as a museum piece rather than refitting it and possibly losing it in service.

Lagamorph · Feb 4, 2019

Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

StallionDan · Feb 4, 2019

Lagamorph said:
Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

I got the large eaglemoss special of this. Great redesign.

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 4, 2019

Lagamorph said:
Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

Kind of feels like too much of a jump, honestly, given that you've got another hundred years to cover before the TOS E.

(Also its side view is horrendous-looking.)

Himynameischris · Feb 4, 2019

Rad Bandolar said:
It could be that since it was an experimental ship with a lot of new technology, it had a shorter service life, as a lot of lessons were being learned at a fast pace and starship development quickly leap-frogged it.

Once the Federation was established, different and possibly more advanced tech & designs from the other species were likely incorporated as well, which also would've hastened its retirement.

Plus, it was the first real flagship of the Earth Starfleet, so they probably wanted to retain it as a museum piece rather than refitting it and possibly losing it in service.

Actually that's true, in the final episode Troi mentioned she saw it in a museum, makes sense too since it saved earth like 3 times and helped start the federation (and that final episode is so awful)

Lagamorph said:
Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

well makes sense they didn't if they were just going to decommission it

Himynameischris · Feb 4, 2019

I've been watching some reruns of TNG on BBC and some episodes they don't even try to make the 'aliens' look different. Just perfectly normal looking humans lol

firehawk12 · Feb 4, 2019

BrokenFiction said:
What do you mean by content? Also, I do want BR at least (in absence of 4k releases).

Special features, and in particular Wrath of Khan's original cut.

Also Wrath of Khan's transfer uses DNR which I think looks like butt, but I guess that's highly subjective. lol

BrokenFiction · Feb 4, 2019

firehawk12 said:
Special features, and in particular Wrath of Khan's original cut.

Also Wrath of Khan's transfer uses DNR which I think looks like butt, but I guess that's highly subjective. lol

What sucks is there's like 40 different releases and boxed sets out there and it's frustrating finding one to get. SIGH.

Rad Bandolar · Feb 4, 2019

Lagamorph said:
Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

I'm happy that it never went in that direction -- this is 100 years before Kirk and having a design that's basically the Constitution-class design seems premature. I figure there would be a lot of design types, dead-ends, and experimentation that would've happened before Starfleet matured and its bureaucracy became risk-averse enough to settle on a couple of design templates.

It's why I like the ship designs in Discovery. The Shepard-class and Walker-class look like natural evolutions from the original NX-01 template, and you can especially see how the Miranda-class would evolve from that design line. I'm not sure how well it fits in established canon, but it'd be neat if the Constitution-class was Starfleet's last radical design initiative, and it was so successful that they basically served as the template for their starships ever afterward. If there was any experimentation afterward, it was just nacelle number & positioning.

firehawk12 · Feb 4, 2019

BrokenFiction said:
What sucks is there's like 40 different releases and boxed sets out there and it's frustrating finding one to get. SIGH.

AFAIK all the BD releases are just repackaging the same discs over and over again.

Himynameischris · Feb 4, 2019

So if I was just looking for a collection, getting the DVD would be the cheapest? I don't really watch any of the extra features to anything.

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 4, 2019

Rad Bandolar said:
I'm happy that it never went in that direction -- this is 100 years before Kirk and having a design that's basically the Constitution-class design seems premature. I figure there would be a lot of design types, dead-ends, and experimentation that would've happened before Starfleet matured and its bureaucracy became risk-averse enough to settle on a couple of design templates.

It's why I like the ship designs in Discovery. The Shepard-class and Walker-class look like natural evolutions from the original NX-01 template, and you can especially see how the Miranda-class would evolve from that design line. I'm not sure how well it fits in established canon, but it'd be neat if the Constitution-class was Starfleet's last radical design initiative, and it was so successful that they basically served as the template for their starships ever afterward. If there was any experimentation afterward, it was just nacelle number & positioning.

I'd appreciate the sentiment, but the problem for me is Discovery's ships look terrible. The perfect example of how people want to overdesign the hell out of everything.

butalala · Feb 4, 2019

Himynameischris said:
I've been watching some reruns of TNG on BBC and some episodes they don't even try to make the 'aliens' look different. Just perfectly normal looking humans lol

This is true on pretty much all ST series. TOS has a few planets that are geographically identical to Earth, even. I imagine it comes down to budget.

Himynameischris · Feb 4, 2019

butalala said:
This is true on pretty much all ST series. TOS has a few planets that are geographically identical to Earth, even. I imagine it comes down to budget.

I know it's just funny. For example in this episode there are supposed to be 4.5 aliens here and 1.5 humans

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 4, 2019

butalala said:
This is true on pretty much all ST series. TOS has a few planets that are geographically identical to Earth, even. I imagine it comes down to budget.

It's kind of hilarious how far TOS leaned into that, with humanlike aliens even having the exact same Constitution of the United States. To say nothing of Christ. But hey, hang a lantern on it I guess.

To some degree I kind of appreciate "they're just humans, okay?" a bit more than "just more forehead aliens". If I were working on a Trek series I'd try and focus on fewer, more alien designs and not sweat the others. Not every race can be Species 8472, and that's okay.

DrForester · Feb 4, 2019

Lagamorph said:
Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

Much as I disliked Enterprise, I actually liked the design of the ship.

Pluto · Feb 5, 2019

Lagamorph said:
Well the original plan was for the NX-01 to get a refit in Season 5 I think, so it would've ended up looking like this,

Kind of a shame they couldn't at least throw the design into the finale. Lord knows it needed literally anything to improve it.

There were no such plans, Doug Drexler came up with the idea on his own, he rendered the ship for a calendar and somehow it turned into the "season 5 version" among fans although the ship wouldn't have looked differently in season 5 at all. They wouldn't have changed the hero ship in any significant way for no good reason.

Cheerilee · Feb 5, 2019

Pluto said:
There were no such plans, Doug Drexler came up with the idea on his own, he rendered the ship for a calendar and somehow it turned into the "season 5 version" among fans although the ship wouldn't have looked differently in season 5 at all. They wouldn't have changed the hero ship in any significant way for no good reason.

I would say that Star Trek Enterprise, as it was originally envisioned, really failed to hit it's marks in the first two seasons, with constantly falling ratings, and by the end of season two the show was in "possible cancellation" territory.

For season three, they jumped into a season-long Xindi-war story arc, as they pretty much dumped the nonsensical Temporal Cold War that was supposed to define Enterprise, and they punched up the widely-disliked opening theme. And the season-ending cliffhanger (a groan-inducing return to the Temporal Cold War) was admittedly a desperation move to try and prevent the show's imminent cancellation.

And then the show did get renewed for a fourth season, but the showrunners were ejected and replaced, and the subsequent episodes were popular and got good reviews. But the ratings didn't rebound, they continued to trickle slightly downward.

It would make sense for Enterprise season five to try making some big moves to try and get the audience's attention, and then try to keep it. Supposedly they wanted to add Shran to the bridge crew. Something like a ship redesign seems like it would be a great way to try and grab people's attention.

Deleted member 2226 · Feb 5, 2019

Cheerilee said:
I would say that Star Trek Enterprise, as it was originally envisioned, really failed to hit it's marks in the first two seasons, with constantly falling ratings, and by the end of season two the show was in "possible cancellation" territory.

For season three, they jumped into a season-long Xindi-war story arc, as they pretty much dumped the nonsensical Temporal Cold War that was supposed to define Enterprise, and they punched up the widely-disliked opening theme. And the season-ending cliffhanger (a groan-inducing return to the Temporal Cold War) was admittedly a desperation move to try and prevent the show's imminent cancellation.

And then the show did get renewed for a fourth season, but the showrunners were ejected and replaced, and the subsequent episodes were popular and got good reviews. But the ratings didn't rebound, they continued to trickle slightly downward.

It would make sense for Enterprise season five to try making some big moves to try and get the audience's attention, and then try to keep it. Supposedly they wanted to add Shran to the bridge crew. Something like a ship redesign seems like it would be a great way to try and grab people's attention.

By the end of Enterprise's run, it was doomed no matter what they did. The channel it was on had morphed into a vehicle for America's Next Top Model and was looking to appeal to young women. Season 4 basically stopped the ratings decline, but demographically the show just didn't fit anymore.

Deleted member 5028 · Feb 5, 2019

So thinking over the comments about the Picard show, specifically that it takes place in the post-Romulus world and will tell a story not unfamiliar to the viewer - I'm wondering if the Romulans are now what the Vulcans were to the Kelvinverse. An endangered species living in Federation borders, while Romulan space has been taken over mostly by Klingons.

Only problem is, that while the Romulan are receiving aid from the Federation, nobody wants them there. So it's kind of a mirror to the world today.

JonnyDBrit · Feb 5, 2019

SlipperyFishes said:
So thinking over the comments about the Picard show, specifically that it takes place in the post-Romulus world and will tell a story not unfamiliar to the viewer - I'm wondering if the Romulans are now what the Vulcans were to the Kelvinverse. An endangered species living in Federation borders, while Romulan space has been taken over mostly by Klingons.

Only problem is, that while the Romulan are receiving aid from the Federation, nobody wants them there. So it's kind of a mirror to the world today.

Certainly a curious question. Most post-09 media in the Prime time line - novels, STO, so forth - have taken the presumption of the territories empire standing, but fractured from each other. On the one hand, following that template would give them a bunch of existing media to lean on to mine for ideas and material. On the other... Well, aside of the temptation to do something different, it would more immediately invite the Federation-Klingon standoff that, even if meant to be resolved, makes for easy marketing material. That's why STO leaned on it, and Discovery did too. The Picard show doing the same would not be too surprising.

QuigleyMcShine · Feb 5, 2019

BrokenFiction · Feb 5, 2019

DBT85 · Feb 5, 2019

QuigleyMcShine said:

Oh daym

firehawk12 · Feb 5, 2019

QuigleyMcShine said:

Wow, spicy....

Fathead · Feb 6, 2019

Oh snap

B.K. · Feb 6, 2019

Speaking of Denise Crosby, I hope she comes back as Sela, if the Picard series focuses on the destruction of Romulus. I hated how they completely dropped her in TNG.

Pluto · Feb 6, 2019

QuigleyMcShine said:

It's kinda shitty of her to throw shade like that when it was her choice to leave which she regretted fast and started humping Star Trek's legs to be brought back several times which Berman didn't have to do but did anyway. She's been doing conventions and fan documentaries and has appeared in a fan film, she has been profitting a lot from being on Star Trek for a very short time.

So now Berman is playing nice, pretending Tasha was a relevant part of TNG and not just a supporting character in the shitty first season that half of the fandom skips for rewatches and she thinks it's a good idea to respond like that? This makes her look ungrateful because like I already said, she wasn't forced out, she made the choice but boo fucking hoo, Berman forgot episodes were shot out of order 30 years ago and he took the combadge ... so what?

I really don't get it, his tweet might not be 100% accurate (but we have no idea if her recollection of the events is, human memory is kinda crappy) but he's basically telling the world he kept a memento of her character for decades which should play right into her hands.

DBT85 · Feb 6, 2019

Pluto said:
It's kinda shitty of her to throw shade like that when it was her choice to leave which she regretted fast and started humping Star Trek's legs to be brought back several times which Berman didn't have to do but did anyway. She's been doing conventions and fan documentaries and has appeared in a fan film, she has been profitting a lot from being on Star Trek for a very short time.

So now Berman is playing nice, pretending Tasha was a relevant part of TNG and not just a supporting character in the shitty first season that half of the fandom skips for rewatches and she thinks it's a good idea to respond like that? This makes her look ungrateful because like I already said, she wasn't forced out, she made the choice but boo fucking hoo, Berman forgot episodes were shot out of order 30 years ago and he took the combadge ... so what?

I really don't get it, his tweet might not be 100% accurate (but we have no idea if her recollection of the events is, human memory is kinda crappy) but he's basically telling the world he kept a memento of her character for decades which should play right into her hands.

I'm reading it the complete opposite to you.

Cheerilee · Feb 6, 2019

Pluto said:
It's kinda shitty of her to throw shade like that when it was her choice to leave which she regretted fast and started humping Star Trek's legs to be brought back several times which Berman didn't have to do but did anyway. She's been doing conventions and fan documentaries and has appeared in a fan film, she has been profitting a lot from being on Star Trek for a very short time.

So now Berman is playing nice, pretending Tasha was a relevant part of TNG and not just a supporting character in the shitty first season that half of the fandom skips for rewatches and she thinks it's a good idea to respond like that? This makes her look ungrateful because like I already said, she wasn't forced out, she made the choice but boo fucking hoo, Berman forgot episodes were shot out of order 30 years ago and he took the combadge ... so what?

I really don't get it, his tweet might not be 100% accurate (but we have no idea if her recollection of the events is, human memory is kinda crappy) but he's basically telling the world he kept a memento of her character for decades which should play right into her hands.

I'm pretty sure Denise Crosby was just being humorously snarky.

Rick Berman said that she gave him the communicator badge after "Skin of Evil" finished filming, and he's kept it since then, because it meant something to him. But that's incorrect, because while Skin of Evil was Tasha Yar's last (regular) appearance, it wasn't Denise Crosby's last (regular) appearance. Denise's final scene was in the episode "Symbiosis", where she snuck in a final wave goodbye to the audience.

Since Denise was already correcting Rick's account, she most likely added in a half-fictional version of the passing of her comm badge. She described it as being stripped away from her, like the trope of a disbarred soldier being stripped of rank. I say half-fictional, because while this version of events was probably entirely fictional (Denise probably handed the badge to Rick, exactly as Rick remembers), from Denise's perspective it probably *felt* like she was being stripped of her rank.

She says in a later tweet that people shouldn't harass Rick Berman, because what she said wasn't real, and describes Rick Berman as a friend.

Pluto · Feb 6, 2019

Cheerilee said:
I'm pretty sure Denise Crosby was just being humorously snarky.

Oops.

In that case I completely misunderstood what she was trying to say. I didn't read it as humorously snarky, I read it as bitter and antagonistic.

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