Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 |OT| Re-ENGAGE!

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
Sheffield, UK
There’s a weird habit people have of truncating every Star Trek series to three letters. PIC is Picard. The only time it ever made sense to me was for Deep Space Nine.

Next Gen
DS9
Voyager
Enterprise
Disco
Picard

They aren’t hard to type out and it avoids the weirdness. And I only use Disco for Discovery because they use it in the show and it’s cool.

Where does this habit originate anyway? Wikis?
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,330
I think Star Trek fans are so used to maintained status quos that they can’t handle the idea of a character arc, especially one spanning decades. I wonder if there’s an overlap with DS9 fans and people who don’t mind seeing a different Picard.
Character arcs have to be set up and developed. Even in this show's flashbacks which take place before Picard left Starfleet he bears no resemblance to the character as we left him. "Time has passed, this person is totally different now" is not a character arc.
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,573
There’s a weird habit people have of truncating every Star Trek series to three letters. PIC is Picard. The only time it ever made sense to me was for Deep Space Nine.

Next Gen
DS9
Voyager
Enterprise
Disco
Picard

They aren’t hard to type out and it avoids the weirdness. And I only use Disco for Discovery because they use it in the show and it’s cool.

Where does this habit originate anyway? Wikis?
Right, thank you. TNG I get, but PIC doesn't work in the same way (and I feel it's gotta get some more years on it before an abbreviation is earned).
 

SG-17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,483
There’s a weird habit people have of truncating every Star Trek series to three letters. PIC is Picard. The only time it ever made sense to me was for Deep Space Nine.

Next Gen
DS9
Voyager
Enterprise
Disco
Picard

They aren’t hard to type out and it avoids the weirdness. And I only use Disco for Discovery because they use it in the show and it’s cool.

Where does this habit originate anyway? Wikis?
It's been this way going back to pre-internet usenet bulletin boards.

TOS
TAS
TNG
DS9
VOY
ENT
DIS
PIC

Makes perfect sense.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,520
Character arcs have to be set up and developed. Even in this show's flashbacks which take place before Picard left Starfleet he bears no resemblance to the character as we left him. "Time has passed, this person is totally different now" is not a character arc.
This is something I don't really get to be honest. 30 years have passed, even 10 years are enough to vastly change a person, I could use myself as an example. I think people who knew me only up to 2010 wouldn't recognize the 2020 me anymore. Why does everything have to be explained when it's an established real-life fact that people don't have to, but can radically change over the years?
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,305
The first four are acceptable and sensible, but the remaining four are bananas and I hate them so much.

(I’ve actually never seen anyone use TAS so that would’ve given me pause. It makes sense though)
The difference is that the first four are three words while the others are single word titles.

Unless you want to start doing STTNG and STV.
 

BebopCola

Member
Jul 17, 2019
719
So going back to the Tal Shiar for a minute, ever since the Dominion decapitated them and the Obsidian Order, they were basically neutralized as the Founders intended. Not soon after, their top brass was infiltrated by Starfleet/Section 31 assets before the Dominion War even ended. It makes sense to me that whatever remnants of the Tal Shiar we are seeing are not the cream of the crop, and some sort of extremism pre-supernova caused them to splinter into madness. It would also explain why two older assassins basically quit to defend the man who sacrificed almost everything he had to save them: there was nothing in the Tal Shiar worth serving anymore.

Basically I see the current Tal Shiar as akin to the First Order, with the TNG/DS9 Tal Shiar as the Empire they are trying so hard to emulate.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,330
This is something I don't really get to be honest. 30 years have passed, even 10 years are enough to vastly change a person, I could use myself as an example. I think people who knew me only up to 2010 wouldn't recognize the 2020 me anymore. Why does everything have to be explained when it's an established real-life fact that people don't have to, but can radically change over the years?
Because that's what a character arc is. That's the backbone that makes the evolution and development of a character interesting and meaningful.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,520
Because that's what a character arc is. That's the backbone that makes the evolution and development of a character interesting and meaningful.
Point taken, I'll be honest and say I don't think the series will be doing this but it's still possible to deliver all that information retroactively at the end or somewhere inbetween rather than frontloaded. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your criticism is invalid, far from it, but I guess it comes down to personal preferences. I for myself have no qualms putting the pieces as to why Picard is like he is now in my head but I can also understand the other side of things where people want it shown.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
Sheffield, UK
Because that's what a character arc is. That's the backbone that makes the evolution and development of a character interesting and meaningful.
But then they’d have to spend a lot more time on flashbacks to fill in those missing decades where his character evolved. Maybe that’s a good idea, maybe not. I’m sure we will get more flashbacks as they uncover the conspiracy, but the focus is the present day stuff.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,330
Point taken, I'll be honest and say I don't think the series will be doing this but it's still possible to deliver all that information retroactively at the end or somewhere inbetween rather than frontloaded. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your criticism is invalid, far from it, but I guess it comes down to personal preferences. I for myself have no qualms putting the pieces as to why Picard is like he is now in my head but I can also understand the other side of things where people want it shown.
Thanks for acknowledging my viewpoint, it's all a matter of opinion anyway so I completely understand that others might have a different preference.

But then they’d have to spend a lot more time on flashbacks to fill in those missing decades where his character evolved. Maybe that’s a good idea, maybe not. I’m sure we will get more flashbacks as they uncover the conspiracy, but the focus is the present day stuff.
It's just that I personally don't like off-screen character development.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,520
Thanks for acknowledging my viewpoint, it's all a matter of opinion anyway so I completely understand that others might have a different preference.



It's just that I personally don't like off-screen character development.
Hey nothing to thank me for, that kind of thing should be a given! :) I know that sadly this isn't the case alot of times, especially not online.

My initial bewilderment just stemmed from your statement at first sounding like: "I don't believe a person can change that much over the span of 30 years" which sounded strange to me but once I got what you meant it's all good. Honestly if I had the choice I would also like to have each season to have 20+ episodes where they could go in-depth with the character but sadly it is what it is.
 

Barrel_Roll

Member
Oct 30, 2017
491
Anyone else surprised that the Dominion War hasn’t been referenced at all in this series? Given that the Romulans were allies of the Federation during that conflict, I would think that there would be more goodwill/a sense of obligation on the Federation’s part towards the Romulans.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,327
Tampa, Fl
The thing is the government that helped us during the Dominion War were all killed by Shinzon in Star Trek nemesis. One of the stupidest part of that movie

For all we know Sela was the head of the Romulan government when the super nova happened. Or even just Romulan hardliners who wanted to go back to the aggressive stance
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,174
That was a really good episode, and judging by the next one I guess the middle of the season are episodes that are contained stories that connect to the overall plot.
Next week looks fun.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,995
A weird pet peeve of mine is that I don't like Picard being referred to as "JL", it feels odd when everyone says Jean-Luc or Picard
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,174
A weird pet peeve of mine is that I don't like Picard being referred to as "JL", it feels odd when everyone says Jean-Luc or Picard
I don't get why this bugs everyone. Raffi calls him JL because they were close. Has nobody ever had someone in real life that calls them or another person something that nobody else does?
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,995
I don't get why this bugs everyone. Raffi calls him JL because they were close. Has nobody ever had someone in real life that calls them or another person something that nobody else does?
Plenty of people close to him (some even closer I guess) never called him that...including people who weren't his officers like Guinan. It bugs me because it's something new and Picard is an old dude and that kind of nickname is something you'd expect between two younger people.

But I think it's more to do with the delivery of the actor plus the fact that unless you read that comic, she's literally an unknown character to the audience who's exclusively using a never before used nickname (don't think she ever calls him anything other than JL) for a character that's been established for decades.
 
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ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,174
Plenty of people close to him (some even closer I guess) never called him that...including people who weren't his officers like Guinan. It bugs me because it's something new and Picard is an old dude and that kind of nickname is something you'd expect between two younger people.

But I think it's more to do with the delivery of the actor plus the fact that unless you read that comic, she's literally an unknown character to the audience.
Well duh nobody else call him that, only Raffi does, that's the point. It's shorthand to show that they have history. Bringing up that nobody else calls him that totally ignores my point, some people will have nicknames for people that nobody else uses.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,330
Hey nothing to thank me for, that kind of thing should be a given! :) I know that sadly this isn't the case alot of times, especially not online.

My initial bewilderment just stemmed from your statement at first sounding like: "I don't believe a person can change that much over the span of 30 years" which sounded strange to me but once I got what you meant it's all good. Honestly if I had the choice I would also like to have each season to have 20+ episodes where they could go in-depth with the character but sadly it is what it is.
People absolutely can change but as I replied above to another poster I much prefer when character development happens on screen or at the very least when the seeds of that development has been firmly planted beforehand.
 

auicc

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
275
I get frustrated at times by the criticisms because it has been told many times by Patrick Stewart, the writers, and the producers that Picard himself was going to be not the same as he was in tng and expectations should have been based around that.

At this point if it is still a complaint, even despite the writers throwing in scenes trying to tell people as such, then I don't know what to tell you other than this show isn't for you.

As for me, they must be doing something right because I keep staying up until 2-3 am in the morning on Thursdays to watch and I watch each episode 2 or so times before the next.
 

Sotha_Sil

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,032
I’m still quite enjoying the show. And one of the GOATs has now officially joined the cast - nice.

One thing I do like is the characters’ vulnerability. Picard, Zhaban, and Laris have all been beaten and thrown around, needing to be saved by someone else. Picard especially. Even in the ship battle at the end of this last episode, the heroes feel appropriately vulnerable. Other new-era Trek properties would have had Picard punching out those twenty Romulans.

Soji’s scenes have all felt off to me, though. I’m not sure what’s going on there. The whole tarot card nonsense was probably the low point of the show for me. My fear is they’re going to tie too many things together.

Plenty of people close to him (some even closer I guess) never called him that...including people who weren't his officers like Guinan. It bugs me because it's something new and Picard is an old dude and that kind of nickname is something you'd expect between two younger people.

But I think it's more to do with the delivery of the actor plus the fact that unless you read that comic, she's literally an unknown character to the audience who's exclusively using a never before used nickname (don't think she ever calls him anything other than JL) for a character that's been established for decades.
The ending to TNG showed Picard tearing down those walls he put between himself and the crew. Fast forward years ahead, and it doesn’t seem to be a huge stretch someone new would call him by an informal nickname.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,662
Yeah, I do wonder what the deal is with the dominion and cardassians, but as with everything DS9 that isn’t section 31 we won’t see many reference to that show outside of some Easter eggs. Shame.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,102
People can definitely change over the course of decades, however - much of that change is internal, stuff like personal philosophy, ways of thinking etc. When it comes to external change - how others see you, things like mannerisms and affect are below consciousness and don't change a whole lot over the years and if they do it's often in very small and subtle ways. When those things do change, it's often due to really concerted effort, like say when you focus intensely on trying to become more confident and present yourself in ways that are atypical for how you've been perceived before. Even when people do feel they change a lot, it can often be difficult for others to see because much of that change is going on in how people witness themselves over the years. I think this is where Picard can feel a little off now and it probably would've been of benefit for Stewart to re-engage with his TNG performances as he was preparing for this role and study that part of himself.

I don't think the change being depicted in Picard here is very nuanced, basically. It's using a time skip which is a shortcut and I think despite Patrick Stewart being a great actor there's something missing in integrating his past into who he is now in the more subtle performative ways. It's sort of a passive way of invoking change, to rely on 'time passed'. The sense I get from the writing so far, is that it's weak in the psychological and philosophical areas while pursuing a traditional political arc. It's only a few episodes in though, so I don't want to be close minded and say that they can't expand on these areas in interesting ways.
 
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Kai Dracon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,978
Rita Repulsa's Moon Palace
Until otherwise seen on screen, I'm going to assume Cardassia (at least) being a non-actor is due to a total focus on rebuilding their society. Persons such as Garak definitely wanted Cardassia to cool it with the expansion and posturing and focus on fixing their problems at home.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,662
Until otherwise seen on screen, I'm going to assume Cardassia (at least) being a non-actor is due to a total focus on rebuilding their society. Persons such as Garak definitely wanted Cardassia to cool it with the expansion and posturing and focus on fixing their problems at home.
I can get on board with that. I doubt Cardassia has the military strength to compete anymore anyway. It was strongly suggested prior to joining the Doninion they were already struggling to keep up with other regional powers and the Dominion War was probably the nail in the coffin.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,102
I think it would be less that Cardassia would still be struggling, as that's silly with Star Trek tech - 20+ years is more than enough time for rapid infrastructural recovery - and it's more that Bajor and the Federation probably ratified some kind of treaty to keep a leash on their expansionist type of governmentally. Also, Damar was basically talking about how old Cardassia is dead anyways and there's no going back, so I think that the leaders since would probably be focusing on a different kind of Cardassia.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,327
Tampa, Fl
Also remember that the military government had already been overthrown. It was the Dominion coup that put the Military back in charge.

I suspect the civilian government would not be quick to try to jump back into the hot seat of expansionism, especially since they had lost every war they were in in less than 10 years.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
Also remember that the military government had already been overthrown. It was the Dominion coup that put the Military back in charge.

I suspect the civilian government would not be quick to try to jump back into the hot seat of expansionism, especially since they had lost every war they were in in less than 10 years.
I was rewatching the last episodes and the dominion killed something like 100s of millions of Cardassian civilians on Prime as punishment for their defection (I think it was like 700 or 800 million), so they are rebuilding from that sort of loss too.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,835
Right, thank you. TNG I get, but PIC doesn't work in the same way (and I feel it's gotta get some more years on it before an abbreviation is earned).
Sorry, I haven’t done one before and it’s my turn in the duty roster. I’ll shut up. :)

edit: although next time I see PIC I’m going to think “Penis in Cloaca” and now many of you will also think of that.
I write a lot on mobile so it’s hard to italicize “Picard” the show to distinguish it from the character. I was writing “Picard” up until a few days ago when it seemed more efficient and clear to use PIC, which is the official abbreviation Memory Alpha and other resources have been using for the show.

If you don’t like to use something don’t assume others like to use it just because of “laziness”
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,128
Picard was a remarkably changed character in All Good Things. Unrecognisable in terms of persona.

The acting was better. That's the difference. He is incredibly one dimensional in this show, whilst the supporting cast are cliche in every respect.
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,573
I write a lot on mobile so it’s hard to italicize “Picard” the show to distinguish it from the character. I was writing “Picard” up until a few days ago when it seemed more efficient and clear to use PIC, which is the official abbreviation Memory Alpha and other resources have been using for the show.

If you don’t like to use something don’t assume others like to use it just because of “laziness”
Haha, no worries my man.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
Sheffield, UK
I write a lot on mobile so it’s hard to italicize “Picard” the show to distinguish it from the character. I was writing “Picard” up until a few days ago when it seemed more efficient and clear to use PIC, which is the official abbreviation Memory Alpha and other resources have been using for the show.

If you don’t like to use something don’t assume others like to use it just because of “laziness”
I don't think anyone is being lazy, sorry I came off that way.
 

EarlGreyHot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,300
Really liked the new episode. The slow pace still needs some getting used to, but it is appreciated. The fact that this is the first Trek show ever that does not take place on a Starfleet vessel or space station is also weird to me. But it's pretty neat to see the Trek universe from this perspective.

Looks like the entire crew is together now. Preview for next week looked really good!
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,835
Having just watched TNG’s season 1 recently, an amazing freak show compared to the rest of Trek that followed, I can’t say I’m bothered by a change in Picard after not seeing him for 30 years in the fictional universe and 19 in the real one.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,132
Phoenix
I think Star Trek fans are so used to maintained status quos that they can’t handle the idea of a character arc, especially one spanning decades. I wonder if there’s an overlap with DS9 fans and people who don’t mind seeing a different Picard.
DS9 fan here. It's my favorite Trek. Picard has been a slog thus far.

I see we've entered the show abbreviation part of the thread's discussion.
The Abbreviation War is better than The Tuvix Conflagration.
 

shaneo632

Member
Oct 29, 2017
14,233
Essex, UK
In that final scene did anyone else feel like
they over emphasised the word "him" a lot to try and make Seven of Nine's arrival more surprising. It seemed really hokey lol