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Mr. Pointy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,141
Just a warning for people avoiding spoilers. Apparently, Amazon Japan got the next episode by accident so things are going to leak everywhere.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,616
That was a such a great episode, I hope we get a scene with Seven and Huge and I love that we're learning more and more about Romulans, they were always so underutilized and they are one of the original alien races from TOS and such a big influence in the Alpha quadrant yet we know so little about them. Anyways can't wait for next week.

Yeah the Enterprise will show up.

With captain Harry Kim!
At least make it realistic
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
I think it's reasonable to believe that the Borg improved their shiny new Stargate using technology or techniques from some other assimilated species.

I do like the implication there that the Borg have decided to turn their attention away from the Federation for now and grab the Delta quadrant. That makes sense given their lack of success, and lets them return later as a bigger threat, having assimilated dozens more species.

If its sole use is for the Queen's escape, it probably has a deleterious effect on the Cube that employs it.
This would be a decent guess, except we've seen it being used, with no obvious effect on the cube.
 

Sammex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,712
That shot with the old photo of locutus with Picard in the background was brilliant. Also loved the reunion with Hugh - I'm glad they didn't pull any "Hugh is now a secret Romulan spy type stuff" and just played it straight here's two friends with a common trauma reuniting.
 

EarlGreyHot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,377
The Enterprise-E could still be in service. The original Enterprise was in service for 40 years or something.

If it still is it's probably refitted and looks different now.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Something bothers me about the whole Trajector thing. It's not that it exists or that it has convenient limitations as to why the Borg don't use it in mass, I can buy that the queen meant it for emergency-use only. But why would the queen need an emergency-exit anyway? We saw a? queen die atleast twice, one time in First Contact and one time in Endgame so it was assumed that she's merely a cloud conscious and can make her own body at will and download herself to that. Though if she has such an emergency-exit it would imply that her body actually has some value which is weird when you die more than once :P
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,837
Sheffield, UK
Something bothers me about the whole Trajector thing. It's not that it exists or that it has convenient limitations as to why the Borg don't use it in mass, I can buy that the queen meant it for emergency-use only. But why would the queen need an emergency-exit anyway? We saw a? queen die atleast twice, one time in First Contact and one time in Endgame so it was assumed that she's merely a cloud conscious and can make her own body at will and download herself to that. Though if she has such an emergency-exit it would imply that her body actually has some value which is weird when you die more than once :P
Maybe the queens get all the rarest tech installed. Like, you can backup all your games to the cloud but it's still not good if your PC explodes.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Maybe the queens get all the rarest tech installed. Like, you can backup all your games to the cloud but it's still not good if your PC explodes.

That could explain it yeah, good idea. Or maybe she can't actually exist in the cloud and has to upload herself manually so the Trajector is there to buy enough time for that in emergencies which would me she survived the First Contact encounter and had enough time for an upload.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Something bothers me about the whole Trajector thing. It's not that it exists or that it has convenient limitations as to why the Borg don't use it in mass, I can buy that the queen meant it for emergency-use only. But why would the queen need an emergency-exit anyway? We saw a? queen die atleast twice, one time in First Contact and one time in Endgame so it was assumed that she's merely a cloud conscious and can make her own body at will and download herself to that. Though if she has such an emergency-exit it would imply that her body actually has some value which is weird when you die more than once :P
Losing a Queen would still be a big deal. I think the suggestion from Guppeth that she's packed with the latest (and most difficult-to-replace) technology is a reasonable one. It could also be useful for knowledge retention - if the Queen is backed up on a regular basis then the loss of the Queen (and, presumably pretty much inherently, the entire cube she was on) could lead to some knowledge being lost. In extreme circumstances this might even become a chain reaction, with Borg cubes going to investigate a threat without being aware that it had previously killed other Borg cubes. If the Queen can escape, this kind of chain can be stopped.

We also don't know how big a deal it is to create a Borg queen. We assume it's not that difficult because the Borg have managed it (off-screen) several times, and I suppose the best guess would be that the Borg had several queens "in-waiting" to minimise the gap between a Queen getting destroyed and a new one taking over, but it could be that the process of creating a new Borg queen takes weeks or months, and that the collective would be directionless during that time.

It could also be that the team studying the Borg cube have only partly understood the function of this technology. It might be capable of being used as a last-minute escape, but it seems to me that it might also be useful for a Queen to be able to use it to move from one cube to another to take direct command of that cube.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Losing a Queen would still be a big deal. I think the suggestion from Guppeth that she's packed with the latest (and most difficult-to-replace) technology is a reasonable one. It could also be useful for knowledge retention - if the Queen is backed up on a regular basis then the loss of the Queen (and, presumably pretty much inherently, the entire cube she was on) could lead to some knowledge being lost. In extreme circumstances this might even become a chain reaction, with Borg cubes going to investigate a threat without being aware that it had previously killed other Borg cubes. If the Queen can escape, this kind of chain can be stopped.

We also don't know how big a deal it is to create a Borg queen. We assume it's not that difficult because the Borg have managed it (off-screen) several times, and I suppose the best guess would be that the Borg had several queens "in-waiting" to minimise the gap between a Queen getting destroyed and a new one taking over, but it could be that the process of creating a new Borg queen takes weeks or months, and that the collective would be directionless during that time.

It could also be that the team studying the Borg cube have only partly understood the function of this technology. It might be capable of being used as a last-minute escape, but it seems to me that it might also be useful for a Queen to be able to use it to move from one cube to another to take direct command of that cube.

Thanks for this, yeah all of that sounds reasonable, after reading your post it makes much more sense to me now. I was clouded with the impression that the Borg can do everything they do pretty easily that I didn't think about them having shortcomings too that we just seldom see.
 

GungHo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
6,136
Picard clapping like a damn seal while Raffi crumbled after being rejected by one of her last friends in the galaxy really pissed me off. He's done/said some really selfish shit, but that lack of awareness and empathy really makes me think he's lost his damn mind and I kind of wished one of the other travelers would have told him to fuck off.

Elnor staying behind didn't make any sense to me. There seemed to be more than enough time to go through the portal together. Hugh said something about having to close down the room but can't he do that by himself?
He also said it would take a couple of minutes to complete. Elnor stayed back to buy time for the room to close so the Romulans didn't have a way to follow or figure out where they went. Of course "just follow behind the ship that dropped him off while in cloak" seems to be a good tracking device to my 21st century caveman brain.
 
Thinking about the Borg, I wouldn't be surprised if they put a new emphasis on protecting Queens after all the shit that went down on Voyager. Future Janeway showed the Borg how the Queen was a vulnerability.

They previously might have considered a Queen as expendable as any other single point of Borg presence. But now there could be situations where a Queen should remove herself from an immediate personal threat.
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,394
The Queen Escape Teleporter thing was weird for me because in my head the Borg Queen wouldn't be 'assigned' until there was a non-Borg there to talk to face to face, at which point the Queen consciousness would be downloaded from the cloud into a handy drone. Recall "you think in such three dimensional terms" was the Queen's response when Picard expressed surprise that she escaped the Cube in Best of Both Worlds - she probably wasn't actually on that ship, just in his head. Voyager already compromised this idea when it showed the Queen strutting around, barking orders at drones, but it's still weird to me.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,684
That was a such a great episode, I hope we get a scene with Seven and Huge and I love that we're learning more and more about Romulans, they were always so underutilized and they are one of the original alien races from TOS and such a big influence in the Alpha quadrant yet we know so little about them.
What are we learning about them? They're the same as they've ever been - secretive spy people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,651
I wonder if we will see the Enterprise...F or G? That would be amazing...
I'm expecting one of two outcomes to swoop in to save the day at some point in the finale.
Either Captain Worf of the Enterprise E for nostalgia reasons, or Captain NewCharacter of the Enterprise F for new show launching reasons (and if that happens I'm actually NOT expecting an odyssey class).
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
I'm expecting one of two outcomes to swoop in to save the day at some point in the finale.
Either Captain Worf of the Enterprise E for nostalgia reasons, or Captain NewCharacter of the Enterprise F for new show launching reasons.
Could definitely see Worf as captain of the Enterprise, but right now there's 5 different Star Trek series in various stages of production. I'm not sure what amount would be the saturation point, but six would probably be getting close to it.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,516
I honestly don't know how anyone can enjoy this shitshow. To me it's at least as bad as Game of Thrones season 8 when it comes to dumping on a great established story and completely ruining existing (and new) characters and their motivations.
 

Moose

Prophet of Truth - Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
I honestly don't know how anyone can enjoy this shitshow. To me it's at least as bad as Game of Thrones season 8 when it comes to dumping on a great established story and completely ruining existing (and new) characters and their motivations.
The worst thing is Riker settling down and not being a total hound. SMFH.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,026
Watching through now. It's weird how rushed and unearned the Rios/Agnes thing is (even if it's meant to be the latter desperately trying to distract herself), when the scene between Rios and Raffi is way better done. They feel like old friends who've seen way too much shit together, and are now the only friends each other has in a universe that's largely forgotten them. Even the small touch of Rios taking away the bottle so Raffi couldn't get straight back to the drink later.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,979
Jesus Stardust City Rag was bad. Every single part of it highlighted every problem I have with this show's writing. Unearned character behavior. Arbitrary, ends-first plot mechanics. Complete lack of drama (seriously why introduce that the lizard can smell lies and then show us that they have a drug that bypasses it?). Just poorly written dialogue overall.

Just what is going on with this show? It feels written by someone who's understanding of storytelling comes from a smoothie pureed from TVTropes and bad anime

Yeah, I'm with you on this. The scripts are subjected to an obscene amount of instances where the narrative is reliant on ostentatious scenarios created by either its characters or the plot devices they're impacted by which leads to everything you identified. The show's writing isn't coherent nor is it believable. More importantly, Picard doesn't seem to know what it wants to be, how it wants to tackle any issue or how to develop its characters or plot.
 
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19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Of course handsome shirtless rogue Captain man is also good at sports

He's closing in on Riker in that regard. Beard CHECK, Ladies Man CHECK, Dark Secrets CHECK, Shirtless at every opportunity CHECK, plays crazy future sport that no one understands CHECK

The only question that remains is, can he play an instrument and is said instrument cooler than Riker tooting his horn in front of the entire crew of the Enterprise?
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,026
He's closing in on Riker in that regard. Beard CHECK, Ladies Man CHECK, Dark Secrets CHECK, Shirtless at every opportunity CHECK, plays crazy future sport that no one understands CHECK

The only question that remains is, can he play an instrument and is said instrument cooler than Riker tooting his horn in front of the entire crew of the Enterprise?

...Football is a crazy future spot?

Also, having just finished the episode, I... feel like, weirdly, this has come in too soon. The emphasis placed on Elnor's 'sacrifice' is weird when he only joined like, two episodes ago (also, I don't feel like he should have been able to operate a transporter like that). Similarly so, and again, the development of Agnes and Rios together.
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,036
SoCal
And their meditation thing, similar to vuclans for obvious reasons
I legit thought he was going to initiate some Romulan form of the mind meld while they were still in her room.

Come to think of it, Romulans should be able mind meld just like Vulcans do, but we've never seen it. Maybe because they're so secretive

Still, you'd think the Tal Shiar or whoever would have a few practitioners on hand to pull information from unwilling minds.
The only question that remains is, can he play an instrument and is said instrument cooler than Riker tooting his horn in front of the entire crew of the Enterprise?
Perhaps he plays guitar and sings hauntingly romantic songs of Andalusia.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
...Football is a crazy future spot?

Star Trek has a way of coming up with insane made up sports but whatever Rios was doing may be the most confusing and nonsensical one yet. It's like a
Blade Runner version of Hacky Sack played with a large leather sphere that he is kicking with his feet with no particular objective. Perhaps they will explain it next time around.

Perhaps he plays guitar and sings hauntingly romantic songs of Andalusia.

Right now I'm imagining him as more of an Armenian Duduk kind of guy but his dark secret hasn't been revealed yet so nothing is off the table yet.
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
Hugh better not get some quick shock value death. I swear to god!

Was excited to hear they brought him back and I think he has been used really well. Just let the boy live!
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Perhaps he plays guitar and sings hauntingly romantic songs of Andalusia.
tumblr_m6iwk1GUnD1qj4li6o1_250.jpg
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Star Trek has a way of coming up with insane made up sports but whatever Rios was doing may be the most confusing and nonsensical one yet. It's like a
Blade Runner version of Hacky Sack played with a large leather sphere that he is kicking with his feet with no particular objective. Perhaps they will explain it next time around.



Right now I'm imagining him as more of an Armenian Duduk kind of guy but his dark secret hasn't been revealed yet so nothing is off the table yet.
en.wikipedia.org

Futsal - Wikipedia

It's a game about ball control that's played in a hard court environment with a weighted ball
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Could definitely see Worf as captain of the Enterprise, but right now there's 5 different Star Trek series in various stages of production. I'm not sure what amount would be the saturation point, but six would probably be getting close to it.
Official tie-in boomlet spoiler
Worf of the Enterprise-E. it's not unknown to see ships last a long time