As long as Brent Spiner is doing a Patrick Stewart impression for the rest of the show.
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Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 |OT| Re-ENGAGE!
- Thread starter Spectromixer
- Start date
You should watch Star Trek more. Sometimes, Kirk goes back in time and makes the Nazis win by accident, Data's head is dormant on a cave in Earth for 400 years after meeting Mark Twain, and a giant probe almost destroys Earth looking for whales, but there aren't so the crew of the Enterprise have to travel back in time to get some. Once, an evil mastermind was able to technobabble his way into taking control of Dr. Bashir's body thanks to whatever in his nails.
So, Sutra being some sort of descendant of Lore is low on the list of ridiculous things in Trek. I don't think even giant flowers in space qualify.
You see, sometimes there's no point in debating a show with people who clearly won't give it an inch.
There are some people here that clearly have issues with the show or the franchise as a whole, but one can have meaningful debates with them and they concede a point, and one then concedes a point. If you or someone else is of the idea that this or any other thing is just "trash", then honestly, you are wasting your time. I stopped seeing any of the CW DC shows because I just didn't enjoy them anymore after going all in during some seasons. Maybe someday I'll go back to them, whatever, and find some joy in them in the middle of the quarantine, but I'm not going to be constantly shitting on them on forums. I just don't watch them. Maybe if I was paid to review things I would, but I don't so I have better things to do.
Most people, so, are here because we enjoy talking about Picard and to see how everyone else is reacting. The show overall is getting praise, is getting a lot of fans excited, and non fans are enjoying it as well. I have friends who enjoy Prestige TV like any other person, and are getting a kick out of both Discovery and Picard. I notice that is especially common among viewers who didn't grow up being fans of Star Trek.
Some people enjoy shitting on stuff and getting into fights online about it, but what a lot of those fans are telling you is that go somewhere else for that. Especially for a franchise that preaches optimism all the time.
You can't have a problem with giant flowers and not have a problem with giant green hands but anyways that was a great and the borg cube coming in was amazing, so nice to get some updated HD quality VFX of star trek ships, we got that gorgeous render of the Disco Enterprise ship and now a borg cube. Can't wait for next week.
I feel like I'm just getting more and more disappointed the further we get into this season. I would love for there to be some kind of amazing pay off in the finale but I seriously doubt it.
Don't worry I'm sure the entire episode they spent dedicated to picking him up will pay off in the finale!
Don't worry I'm sure the entire episode they spent dedicated to picking him up will pay off in the finale!
I think the episode would have been a lot better if it wasn't so rushed feeling. Should have been at least 10 minutes longer, if not more.
Ok that was incredible, I wasn't expecting it to be that dead on.
OOOH that would be RAD.
I'm going through Michael Chabon's IG Q&A. Sutra is just her own self. Lore isn't involved in any of this - his story ended after Descent.
I said it in Episode 1. But people here insisted that could be accounted for how "changed" he has become as a person. No, his character is largely the same. Patrick Stewart's delivery is just awful.
Just finished Picard episode 9... Didn't like it.
1. What is this show trying to say? Never help someone in need because they'll backstap you? That people looked down deserve it because they'll kill each other, deceitful and undermine themselves? This is both making the Romulans guilty of destroying their own rescue fleet and now the Androids willing to wipe out organic life. What is moral supposed to be here? That has really dangerous really world implications with the treatment of minorities, LGBTQ+ people, asylum seekers etc and I really hope the writers know what they are doing with it and don't go the way I'm fearing they will with the last episode.
2. Really disappointed they went this route, it's been done so many times, even withe the twist it was a message for the non-organics instead of a warning for the organics, it just feels like a massive letdown when their were so many other ways this could have tried something different.
1. What is this show trying to say? Never help someone in need because they'll backstap you? That people looked down deserve it because they'll kill each other, deceitful and undermine themselves? This is both making the Romulans guilty of destroying their own rescue fleet and now the Androids willing to wipe out organic life. What is moral supposed to be here? That has really dangerous really world implications with the treatment of minorities, LGBTQ+ people, asylum seekers etc and I really hope the writers know what they are doing with it and don't go the way I'm fearing they will with the last episode.
2. Really disappointed they went this route, it's been done so many times, even withe the twist it was a message for the non-organics instead of a warning for the organics, it just feels like a massive letdown when their were so many other ways this could have tried something different.
The message is to not treat people different from you as lesser as that just breeds conflict. It's a pretty standard Trek message.
Honestly it ranges from the hardcore fan who knows the lore better than Gene type to those who just feel the need to remind an actor in the shittiest ways possible that he is not the same as he was 30 years ago.
Pulling True Scotsman on people who don't like the show or have criticisms of it and being very patronising isn't helpful or good at all, especially when your defence is just tell people have don't agree with you to leave.
People who have issues with the show have every right to say that the do and why, just as much as anyone who loves the show does, many of them are likely are fans who love Star Trek but don't like the creative decisions or choices, that's not bad. Shutting down criticism isn't good especially you seem so happy to generalise anyone who has issues under one bus which seems pretty far from the message of Star Trek.
Also wow with the condescension with the last paragraph, sorry you don't like people criticising a show you like, optimism doesn't not mean shutting anyone who doesn't agree with you, you can very much be an optimistic and still have issues that you want to see improve on because you know the work can do better.
I always thought Lore's ending was too rushed in that episode. I mean, he's the same as Data and should have a fair trial for his crime, but they just disassembled him permanently and no one had any problems with that.
Not sure what I think of that episode.
I had really hoped they would avoid the "ancient evil" thing and they actually managed to make it worse - so every few hundred thousand years, when a civilisation creates sufficiently advanced synthetic life, this "Federation" of synthetic life gets called in to wipe out all intelligent organic life and take the new synthetic species back with it?
It's so... needlessly apocalyptic.
Worse yet, it means the Romulans are actually right - if they don't destroy the androids before the signal gets out, every living thing across multiple galaxies will die. Of course they had no idea you have to witness the Admonition to figure out the signal you need to send in the first place, but it's a little too late for that now.
Plus it means synthetic life fears for its own survival much like the Romulans fear for the survival of all organic life, which I guess goes back to the discussion Picard and Soji had. Both sides are afraid of something that doesn't have to happen and they're willing to kill everything to make sure it can't.
It's a bit of a retread and they just had to introduce obviously evil characters into the mix so everyone else can be a "good guy" in a situation that is less about good and evil and more about self-preservation.
I had really hoped they would avoid the "ancient evil" thing and they actually managed to make it worse - so every few hundred thousand years, when a civilisation creates sufficiently advanced synthetic life, this "Federation" of synthetic life gets called in to wipe out all intelligent organic life and take the new synthetic species back with it?
It's so... needlessly apocalyptic.
Worse yet, it means the Romulans are actually right - if they don't destroy the androids before the signal gets out, every living thing across multiple galaxies will die. Of course they had no idea you have to witness the Admonition to figure out the signal you need to send in the first place, but it's a little too late for that now.
Plus it means synthetic life fears for its own survival much like the Romulans fear for the survival of all organic life, which I guess goes back to the discussion Picard and Soji had. Both sides are afraid of something that doesn't have to happen and they're willing to kill everything to make sure it can't.
It's a bit of a retread and they just had to introduce obviously evil characters into the mix so everyone else can be a "good guy" in a situation that is less about good and evil and more about self-preservation.
If he's Lore, he's still an asshole. That's Lore's defining trait.
"Sutra" as well.
If Chabon says he's not Lore, well, okay then, but it sure makes for a weird in-universe habit for someone who definitely isn't Lore to be naming synths with heavy hints that he is in fact Lore.
Even "Jana" seems like a hint - it's a Persian name meaning "dearest" (very similar to the meaning behind "Lal") and also a Roman variation on Janus, the two-faced god. Either of those seem like a hint towards Lore.
This is true. There were lots of reasonable ways a planet of synths could have turned out, some of which might have been pretty interesting - they could have been indifferent, or actively hostile to organics from the start, or critical of Picard and his efforts, or a number of other directions.
For the people who disliked them, I think the primary reason for most (and definitely for me) was that they start off sympathetic and understanding and that totally fits in with what we've seen from Dahj and Soji (and heard about Jana, via Rios), and then all it takes is a cheap trick and a speech to have them decide to wipe out the whole galaxy. That's a nuclear-powered heel turn.
Yep. It does leave them having to explain how Agnes is currently tricking the synths into thinking she's on their side though, when the synths flatly tell her that they'll know if she's lying. My expectation is that since she said that she'd died to protect her children, it'll turn out that she meant that she'd died to protect them from the consequences of the actions that they were taking (and also to stop those actions).
I think the flaw that really comes to the fore the more I think about the last episode is the contrivance of the current conflict.
The central conflict is the Zhat Vash misuderstanding the message they found, which causes them to hunt out artificial life, which is the only reason the current day synths come under attack from the Zhat Vash. The message itself causes the conflict they were trying to warn about.
There's a circular logic to it that just makes the central conflict feel so artificial and unearned. It's a conflict of circumstance, not of characters, and it's really hard to care about.
The central conflict is the Zhat Vash misuderstanding the message they found, which causes them to hunt out artificial life, which is the only reason the current day synths come under attack from the Zhat Vash. The message itself causes the conflict they were trying to warn about.
There's a circular logic to it that just makes the central conflict feel so artificial and unearned. It's a conflict of circumstance, not of characters, and it's really hard to care about.
I think my problem with this is that I don't find this version of Data's backstory (and by extension, any of the other synthetic life forms) very interesting.
As a character he was an absolute focal point and his stories really shaped a big part of what made TNG the show that it was, but this just seems like a poor attempt at fleshing out a story that didn't need to be fleshed out.
Data's desire to create life in his own way and to understand the people that surrounded him was much more interesting, captivating even. This just comes across as a meaningless conflict that has been stitched onto a story that already ended.
The synthetic life forms are already human, or human enough, so there's none of the struggle or character journey that played out for Data in the original series.
This has been a rough first season so far, which is pretty standard for Star Trek. I really hope we see something a bit less like this next season.
As a character he was an absolute focal point and his stories really shaped a big part of what made TNG the show that it was, but this just seems like a poor attempt at fleshing out a story that didn't need to be fleshed out.
Data's desire to create life in his own way and to understand the people that surrounded him was much more interesting, captivating even. This just comes across as a meaningless conflict that has been stitched onto a story that already ended.
The synthetic life forms are already human, or human enough, so there's none of the struggle or character journey that played out for Data in the original series.
This has been a rough first season so far, which is pretty standard for Star Trek. I really hope we see something a bit less like this next season.
I can get on board with some of the criticisms toward this show but saying Stewart's acting is poor just ain't one of them. He's been brilliant.
LOL, this show is straight trash through and through.
I'm kinda of done with the RLM crew, but Mike losing his mind over ST: Picard is the only entertainment I can get from such a trash show. The dumb after show should just be replaced with Mike slowly becoming undone as the season progresses.
The show doesn't care on iota about even approaching believable science. Synthetics can learn an organic procedure. Carbon based organics can contract a disease that is silicon based.
I'm kinda of done with the RLM crew, but Mike losing his mind over ST: Picard is the only entertainment I can get from such a trash show. The dumb after show should just be replaced with Mike slowly becoming undone as the season progresses.
The show doesn't care on iota about even approaching believable science. Synthetics can learn an organic procedure. Carbon based organics can contract a disease that is silicon based.
I don't have an issue with this. Our brains are essentially just computers as is, it's not that much of a leap
I think the silicon virus aspect was already done in ST:Enterprise so that's not new in Trek.
It is when they are completely synthetic. They would require organic components to do the mind meld or at least some tiny microscopic probes to inject into an organic.
It's like a computer plugging a usb cable into someones veins to transfer data. That's not how organic physiology works. Of course they can likely come up with a way to replicate the process, but it would have to be a different process than straight up touching someone's temples. Why even mention a Romulan mind meld?
Synthetic: Just say we have perfected means of extracting thoughts and data from organic minds, here put this on your head.
Agnes: What is it?
Synthetic: Just think of it as something similar to a mind meld, except less painful and rudimentary.
Easy. Done.
EDIT:
Side note, Stewart's acting is fine. Picard is just completely out of character.
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Same. After the last 2 mostly great episodes, this was filled with a lot of poor contrivances
At this point, just go back to Riker and Troi's cabin and hang out and reminisce for the rest of the season.
Watching Riker make pizza was far more engaging than anything in that last episode.
Watching Riker make pizza was far more engaging than anything in that last episode.
I think what'll happen is they'll triple down on fanservice next season once all the feedback is in. They're probably already working on doing so. More legacy characters will appear and more overt references to stuff like the Dominion War.
By the time many fans determine that the season's structure is messy again (if it is), they'll have received three or four "Nepenthes" and it will matter less. (See also: Pike, lol.)
And if I'm being honest I'm totally fine with that. My dream was a TNG-era show and by golly I've gotten one. I think it's even more flawed than Discovery's second season (though not as rough as Discovery's first season) but as long as viewership remains decent it will hopefully grow into something more routinely solid rather than sometimes-solid, sometimes-questionable.
Do we know yet who wrote the season finale? If it's Chabon on his own I think I'll enjoy it more, but honestly — and I hate to be so blunt — this most recent episode has done nothing to indicate to me that he and his wife make a good writing team.
By the time many fans determine that the season's structure is messy again (if it is), they'll have received three or four "Nepenthes" and it will matter less. (See also: Pike, lol.)
And if I'm being honest I'm totally fine with that. My dream was a TNG-era show and by golly I've gotten one. I think it's even more flawed than Discovery's second season (though not as rough as Discovery's first season) but as long as viewership remains decent it will hopefully grow into something more routinely solid rather than sometimes-solid, sometimes-questionable.
Do we know yet who wrote the season finale? If it's Chabon on his own I think I'll enjoy it more, but honestly — and I hate to be so blunt — this most recent episode has done nothing to indicate to me that he and his wife make a good writing team.
His wife was an android and he makes that big speech to Data explaining that Data and Lore are his version of biological children.
Yeah he didn't outright say "I have no biological son" but come on.
I find this show worst than Discovery. At least DISCO kept me engaged with its mystery. Plus, it tried to ape classic Trek in moments. Picard just ruins our favorite characters for a nothing story.
I'm still hopeful there's a twist in there. Like the Federation shows up to back Picard and the Romulans are there to wipe out the synthetic life, but then we find out the thing the Admonition came from hasn't existed for hundreds of thousands of years.
Maybe the Borg wiped them out or they became the Borg. Maybe they just withered away and shut down, their supposed immortality backfiring on them because they lack the drive to live that organic life has.
Basically, synthetic life has no more to fear of organic life than organic life has to fear of synthetic life. On the contrary they need each other to survive. They can live together or they can die alone.
With context, sure you can.
TOS was made in the 60s, people are willing to forgive a low budget old ass show from a time with limited VFX possible.
Doing green hands in 2020, on a show with Picard budget, which the VFX possible today would absolutely get ripped apart. And so can anything else that is stupid.
I didn't have a problem with the flowers personally.
Well, all I can say (and I mean this for myself as well even if I like Picard more than you do) is hopefully we'll get another TNG/DS9/VOY sequel-era show in the years to come with a better overall production.
Wait, what? It is. There are plenty who are satisfied on places like Trek fan sites and even Reddit. I'd maybe say the response is more "mixed" than anything, but I know a fair few people who mostly enjoy it — including someone who never even got into Trek when he and I were kids.
Yeah I loved that. And then everyone on the planet is wearing flowing silky robes and playing weird chess.
His wife was an android made after Data after the biological version was killed by the crystalline entity
Never gonna happen.
No one who actually cares about what Trek stands for is left at Paramount and Executives think only explosions can sell a space show.
Poor Seven.
"We are Borg!" *Romulans flush army down toilet*
Cube here to save the day! *immediately wrecked by flowers*
Man I love this show. I can't believe some of the criticism and backlash I'm reading here, TrekBBS loves it too.
I can get why Sutra is so anti-organic, her sister was already murdered by one.
The acting overall is fantastic too.
I really hope Riker shows up leading a Federation fleet that has finally come to its senses.
I can get why Sutra is so anti-organic, her sister was already murdered by one.
The acting overall is fantastic too.
I really hope Riker shows up leading a Federation fleet that has finally come to its senses.