Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 |OT| Re-ENGAGE!

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
People act like the plot of Mass Effect was incredibly novel and unpredecented. Sci-fi has long explored the themes of "higher powers" regulating the expansion and development of younger species.
It's totally fair to say that Mass Effect has drawn on a long history of other science fiction, and that virtually nothing that it does was original. Even the aesthetics are cribbed from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.

So up until this episode of Picard, I would have agreed that the plot of Picard owed more to generalised science fiction tropes and themes than specifically to Mass Effect.

This episode changes that. Although each individual plot strand could have come from elsewhere, the combination looks a whole lot more like Mass Effect now than it did even just one episode ago. With changes and some subversions, for sure, and those result in differences big enough that it's definitely not just a rip-off, but it's definitely reasonable to think that the series owes a big debt to Mass Effect.



Couldn't find one so I made this.
It's right up there with the coolest moments in Star Trek. I genuinely hope that they use variations of this same effect for all Borg cubes in future.

Not just Borg cubes that are about to be easily defeated several frames later.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
One of the tropes I really hate is an ancient civilization that is ready to destroy all living beings. Another trope I hate is how synthetic life and organic life can't coexist and synthetics must destroy organics to survive. Picard is mixing these two tropes. Hope they try to subvert this (most likely will, it is Picard. He will find a way to convince the synthetics and the Romulans to stop fighting), but this really soured me.

As for the new characters, only one I like is Rios. And that's because he swears in Spanish. Coño! Raffi is fine. Agnes can go to hell for all I care. And Space Legolas... what was the point of him anyways?
I'm curious if this ancient civilization would destroy the Borg or save them. lol
 

ZedLilIndPum

Member
Oct 27, 2017
468
ehhhhhh. I went into this show being OK with anything except something that would retroactively trash TNG. It's definitely not that bad. But it's not great. I'm definitely annoyed with the directing, like it's a CBS crime procedural or something. And it really doesn't need ALL THIS PLOT vs having the characters just exist. But I'll watch the finale...and then cancel CBS All Access forthwith.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
I'm curious if this ancient civilization would destroy the Borg or save them. lol
Yeah those guys are going to come storming into the galaxy expecting to destroy all organic life and then find out that they have dozens of annoying edge cases like the Borg, the Bynars, holograms, people like Airiam, these things from Voyager, even the not-sentient synths that the Federation built up until the Mars attack. Maybe the whole thing ends with a court case to decide who can and can't possibly be classed as a synth, like Measure of a Man in reverse.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Yeah those guys are going to come storming into the galaxy expecting to destroy all organic life and then find out that they have dozens of annoying edge cases like the Borg, the Bynars, holograms, people like Airiam, these things from Voyager, even the not-sentient synths that the Federation built up until the Mars attack. Maybe the whole thing ends with a court case to decide who can and can't possibly be classed as a synth, like Measure of a Man in reverse.
Picard has a robot heart. Would he lose his court case? lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
223
If this show had anything really good I think people would be talking about it more. As it is, it's a rather middling show at best with only a few highlights to speak of. That's why it's easy to focus on the negatives I think. When you look at critically loved series, like The Wire, Breaking Bad, Early GoT, Sopranos etc. the discourse was/is rich and diverse. But that's because they're excellent through and through. Picard is just not even close.
I love Star Trek and really enjoy Picard, but to be fair nothing Star Trek related comes close to those shows. It is an absurd comparison.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,907
I'm trying to think of what was around in the late 90s and it was stuff like Buffy and X-files and Stargate, which was just doing much more interesting things than Star Trek at the time.

I found this list of episodes watched on Netflix: https://nerdist.com/article/star-trek-netflix-most-rewatched/
And it's like the big standalone episodes that were somewhat decent that people like, which makes sense because Voyager was essentially trying to remake TNG at some point (I have no fucking clue why Endgame would be the most watched thing though. lol)

But at that time, the Voyager premise was seen as wasted, there was much hay made about Ron D Moore joining and quitting the show after one episode to go on to make BSG. The failure there was that Voyager wasn't keeping up with the trends of television that was clearly developing, including the launch of serialized television and Lost-style series arcs. Incidentally it's probably why DS9 is seen was forward thinking and perhaps the constant bickering between Behr and Berman actually made it a better show by forcing them to include episodic stories alongside a highly serialized story arc.

I can't divorce myself from like 30 years of Star Trek nerdery (other than the fact that I don't care about the franchise anymore), so I'll always be coloured by the fact that TNG was quality television and Voyager was a complete and utter disappointment where I started watching what I considered better SF television at the time. But I accept the fact that people 10 years younger than me might not care that the Kazon story line was a pointless exercise or that Q went from an interesting antagonist for Picard to a horny alien who wants to bang Janeway. That's fine and maybe Voyager is the best Trek after all.

All that said, I have no idea what this new Picard show is supposed to be in the current context of TV shows. Is it supposed to be like Game of Thrones or The Expanse and fit within that type of genre serialized storytelling? Is it supposed to be a serious character study like Better Call Saul or Fargo or Chernobyl? I think it's fair to actually compare this show to what's currently airing now, because it's not like it exists in a complete vacuum.

TNG fit in very well with the late 80s/early 90s television, producing extremely strong episodic television that wasn't recognized because it was genre television. DS9 alienated a lot of people because it was 5-10 years too early for long form serialized storytelling... and when Voyager came around, people were already invested in shows like Buffy and X-Files where they had a perfect mix of story arcs and stand-alone episodes. When Enterprise finally came around, the old style of Star Trek was completely dead and people were into 24 and Lost and the Wire and Sopranos and all this much better TV that it couldn't compete with. I actually think it's useful to put Discovery and Picard into the same TV context, because it should be judged against the best of the medium if we want to take these things seriously as "art".
Agree on a lot of this, but I don't think there are only two types of television people are enjoying right now. It's way too simplistic, with today's huge array of content that gets acclaim. It's definitely more action oriented than the TNG era, that's for sure, but it's not impossible to envision Picard, Disco and whatever comes next as carving out it's own niche in the market.

And, well, it's only been 9 episodes.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
TNG had its quality moments, even relative to the 80s and 90s, that's true. For a brief period, Star Trek was indeed standing out. But that era didn't last long, even for DS9, which was arguably better than TNG in many regards, but became less popular due to the more focus on drama and there was more competition in the sci-fi show market.

Years ago after I started hanging out online in forums and got to know about the opinions of most of the online fanbase about Voyager, I was surprised at just how much it was hated and trashed, like when you find out your favorite movie as a kid has a 30% score on Rotten Tomatoes. Janeway apparently was a war criminal!

But Voyager is the most popular Trek show on Netflix, followed by TNG I think. Many have guessed it's because VOY simply is more fun and appealed (thanks to Janeway and the crew) to a more diverse fanbase too. And, because it was batshit crazy in a lot of episodes it might have pissed off a lot of more "serious" fans but made for really fun TV. Its low ratings have more to do with it being moved to the CW, but the popularity of Seven of Nine then and now is proof at just how much Voyager had a good impact on most fans that grew up with 90s Trek.

Few of the DS9 characters were that popular compared to the TNG and VOY crews, which is why I think more fans would go crazy if Janeway were to pop up than if Sisko somehow returned.
DS9 only got popular when it started doing big space battles. The first couple seasons were hated. I think Way of the Warrior (where Worf also joined) was the turning point.

Outside of the big battle episodes, Voyager I think was always more popular. At least in UK. It seemed to get discussed more and certainly got more magazine coverage.

US I'm sure was different, DS9 was several seasons ahead of Voyager there so it started getting better as Voyager only just launched, but in UK it was only a season ahead so they both improved at same time, and I believe in US Voyager didn't even air everywhere right?
 

DrForester

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,327
final predictions.

1. The super-AI people are testing the new AI to see if they would genocide everyone
2. It's just Q screwing with everyone (can't forget that possible foreshadowing in ep. 1)
3. We're going full stupid and the Q are the super-AI.
 

Combo

Member
Jan 8, 2019
473
Man I love this show. I can't believe some of the criticism and backlash I'm reading here, TrekBBS loves it too.

I can get why Sutra is so anti-organic, her sister was already murdered by one.

The acting overall is fantastic too.

I really hope Riker shows up leading a Federation fleet that has finally come to its senses.
Why do you think BBS and most of the Reddit sub loves it? While a lot of other people hate it? What is your theory?

What is it that both camps can't understand about each other?
 

Mr. Pointy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,793
Sutra going full genocide does fit this pattern Star Trek Picard has of people doing extreme things when they think they're backed into a corner.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Why do you think BBS and most of the Reddit sub loves it? While a lot of other people hate it? What is your theory?

What is it that both camps can't understand about each other?
The last time I was a serious poster on TBBS was probably 10 years ago or so (I assume T'Bonz is still the admin but I have no idea lol), but TBBS is, or at least was, the biggest gathering place for Trek fans so I'm not really surprised. I think I was in the minority when it came to disliking Enterprise at the time.

(Funny enough, everyone there seems to hate Alec Peters so there's that :p)
 

Quinton

We need to talk about Edelgard...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,739
The Research Triangle
The last time I was a serious poster on TBBS was probably 10 years ago or so (I assume T'Bonz is still the admin but I have no idea lol), but TBBS is, or at least was, the biggest gathering place for Trek fans so I'm not really surprised. I think I was in the minority when it came to disliking Enterprise at the time.

(Funny enough, everyone there seems to hate Alec Peters so there's that :p)
T’Bonz is still at it, yup.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
The Borg are totally harmless to synthetic life. Heck, they basically worshipped Data as perfection incarnate. I doubt they'd be considered a threat, especially since their organic components are largely irrelevant and slave to the mechanical hivemind.
Yet the Borg Queen worshiped Picard, and then practically wanted Janeway during Voyager's adventures. They value organic life as much as the technology.

Agree on a lot of this, but I don't think there are only two types of television people are enjoying right now. It's way too simplistic, with today's huge array of content that gets acclaim. It's definitely more action oriented than the TNG era, that's for sure, but it's not impossible to envision Picard, Disco and whatever comes next as carving out it's own niche in the market.

And, well, it's only been 9 episodes.
That's the two immediate types of shows that Picard slots into at least. It's literally called Picard, so you'd expect it to be a character-based drama focused on how a character handles specific situations like Mr. Robot or Better Call Saul. But even if it's not that type of show, I think it'd also be fair to compare it to the other big scifi show that's in production right now.

But even then, if you're just comparing it across the board against any type of TV that's being made right now... like sure, it's better than Love is Blind and other Netflix trash that they keep pumping out, but it's probably not a top ten show either. Does it need to be one? That I don't really have an answer for, but at least in the heyday of Trek, the show was in those conversations, not just to geeks and nerds, but to the general public.

Voyager was on UPN, a network that definitely didn't have the reach of the big four.
The comparison is slightly off because DS9 was syndicated and not carried by the networks. That said, it still definitely had more reach than UPN because you didn't need special cable channels to watch it (in the US at least).
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
T’Bonz is still at it, yup.
Amazing!
I think I was chasing Temis (?) for most posts on TrekBBS back in the day. But I notice that they've since hidden the post counts. lol
I'm sure my posts on the gaming sub forum are still visible because it wasn't really active when I had begun to migrate toward GAF at the time.
 

Quinton

We need to talk about Edelgard...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,739
The Research Triangle
Amazing!
I think I was chasing Temis (?) for most posts on TrekBBS back in the day. But I notice that they've since hidden the post counts. lol
I'm sure my posts on the gaming sub forum are still visible because it wasn't really active when I had begun to migrate toward GAF at the time.
For the longest time I’ve felt like your username here is hella familiar. Now I know why! I was JeffZero/Jeff O’Connor on TrekBBS for a long time. I never racked up a crazy number of posts but I did a DS9 episode-by-episode retrospective thread circa 2010-11 that was a lot of fun.

Kinda recently, I changed my account over there to Quinton — I’m Quinton everywhere now. Maybe not the best move for an Era mod to make on the internet but I’ve never been the brightest bulb. lol

It’s funny to me though how folks from sci-fi communities tend to congregate in this community. I have friends/acquaintances on Era from TrekBBS, from the old BioWare forums, from GateWorld (hello Serebii) and more!
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,261
Alright spoiler question regarding the latest episode and a surprise character:
Anyone else think Dr. Altan Inigo Soong is really Lore? His name is shockingly similar to alter ego and he talks like Lore, the same aggression and bitterness. Plus OG Soong never mentioned having a son. I find Altan highly suspicious!
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
For the longest time I’ve felt like your username here is hella familiar. Now I know why! I was JeffZero/Jeff O’Connor on TrekBBS for a long time. I never racked up a crazy number of posts but I did a DS9 episode-by-episode retrospective thread circa 2010-11 that was a lot of fun.

Kinda recently, I changed my account over there to Quinton — I’m Quinton everywhere now. Maybe not the best move for an Era mod to make on the internet but I’ve never been the brightest bulb. lol

It’s funny to me though how folks from sci-fi communities tend to congregate in this community. I have friends/acquaintances on Era from TrekBBS, from the old BioWare forums, from GateWorld (hello Serebii) and more!
Oh yeah, I remember you!

I think it sort of made sense because GAF was the biggest forum at the time and had enough crossover in "Off Topic" to make it viable for other discussions. With no Star Trek and other long running shows like Stargate ending, I just naturally started posting here more than there. Although I do miss it from time to time.
My one gag there was typing out every line Mayweather said in an episode of Enterprise. lol
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,421
Texas
So, are they going to upload Picard’s brain into the Golem to cure his Irumodic Syndrome? Maybe he could be the bridge between organic and synthetic life? They refreshed our memory that he has the disease, and that Golem is way too obvious a “Chekhov’s Gun” to leave open-ended
 

antonz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,643
Sutra's actions aren't totally unreasonable. tens of thousands of Hostile Aliens are coming in over 200 warships to wipe out of existence a small colony of like 50-100 Synths. The Federation is "helping" by going to Deep Space 12 which is 25+ light years in the wrong direction and seemingly from the episode we have seen Picard has been unable to make contact with the Federation to get them to the right location.

On top of that the Federation itself has been hostile to Syth life since Mars so asking the small group to put all their faith into people who hate them is asking a lot especially when they learn that there is a group of all powerful beings like themselves who offers protection.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Alright spoiler question regarding the latest episode and a surprise character:
Anyone else think Dr. Altan Inigo Soong is really Lore? His name is shockingly similar to alter ego and he talks like Lore, the same aggression and bitterness. Plus OG Soong never mentioned having a son. I find Altan highly suspicious!
Yes, Lore not being mentioned the entire series even when should have has made many of us think they not mentioned him so can 'surprise' us. His initials are A.I Soong and Sutra is a synonym for Lore.

I will be more shocked if it isn't him.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
So, are they going to upload Picard’s brain into the Golem to cure his Irumodic Syndrome? Maybe he could be the bridge between organic and synthetic life? They refreshed our memory that he has the disease, and that Golem is way too obvious a “Chekhov’s Gun” to leave open-ended
I don't think we're getting the synthesis ending, though the Romulan ships may cause green explosions.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,538
Tampa, Fl
The last time I was a serious poster on TBBS was probably 10 years ago or so (I assume T'Bonz is still the admin but I have no idea lol), but TBBS is, or at least was, the biggest gathering place for Trek fans so I'm not really surprised. I think I was in the minority when it came to disliking Enterprise at the time.

(Funny enough, everyone there seems to hate Alec Peters so there's that :p)
Hmm. I had a very different experience on TrekBBS. I found a lot of good discussions and alot of Discovery hate (last time I regularly was there was just after the season one mid break)

In my own experience it has people who love or hate nearly every aspect of Trek.

Hell, I saw some who thought TOS should just be ignored and considered Star Trek should be considered to be started at Wrath of Khan.

Others would defend Gene Roddenberry's sexism as "quaint."

Someone arguing that firing Jerry Goldsmith and replacing TNG Era scores with generic music was a good thing.

I even remember one thread that said that TNG Era Klingons were not "real" Klingons.

The point being that TrekBBS has a lot of different opinions. I have not looked in, in regards to Picard but it wouldn't surprise me if the discussion is positive and diverse.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
Hmm. I had a very different experience on TrekBBS. I found a lot of good discussions and alot of Discovery hate (last time I regularly was there was just after the season one mid break)

In my own experience it has people who love or hate nearly every aspect of Trek.

Hell, I saw some who thought TOS should just be ignored and considered Star Trek should be considered to be started at Wrath of Khan.

Others would defend Gene Roddenberry's sexism as "quaint."

Someone arguing that firing Jerry Goldsmith and replacing TNG Era scores with generic music was a good thing.

I even remember one thread that said that TNG Era Klingons were not "real" Klingons.

The point being that TrekBBS has a lot of different opinions. I have not looked in, in regards to Picard but it wouldn't surprise me if the discussion is positive and diverse.
It could be a different eras and different people too for what it's worth. lol
I was probably most active in the late 90s/early 2000s and the fandom overall was fairly positive from what I remember, with each subsequent series peeling off more and more people eventually. The same thing happened with the Stargate boards for me anyway, or maybe I was so turned off by Universe I like to think other people didn't like it too. lol

There are the series fans, and it's telling that the board is organized by series so that fans of one never had to interact with another unless they crossed over, so that allowed for those X vs Y type conversations. For me, it's when I learned that there were Conservative Trek fans, particularly with the TNZ forum that I eventually stopped visiting, and that was the bigger revelation for me honestly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,843
The Ocean
I don't think we're getting the synthesis ending, though the Romulan ships may cause green explosions.
I think next week will have Starfleet show up to remind people it is what they remember, with the Riker’s back in uniform on board the Enterprise with Worf and a large combined Klingon Cardassian fleet. It’ll probably end with them stopping Oh and the fleet, but Picard will collapse at the end with Agnes saying she can save him. The Destroyahhhhhh will survive to see another day. The Lore to Soji.

Next season will start with Picard recovering and being unaware that he’s the golem - or at least they’ll not want to say. It’ll be ambiguous in every way so you’re not quite sure. The attitudes ofthe federation will change if they feel the need to turn on Picard although his body is synthetic his mind is human.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
It's totally fair to say that Mass Effect has drawn on a long history of other science fiction, and that virtually nothing that it does was original. Even the aesthetics are cribbed from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.

So up until this episode of Picard, I would have agreed that the plot of Picard owed more to generalised science fiction tropes and themes than specifically to Mass Effect.

This episode changes that. Although each individual plot strand could have come from elsewhere, the combination looks a whole lot more like Mass Effect now than it did even just one episode ago. With changes and some subversions, for sure, and those result in differences big enough that it's definitely not just a rip-off, but it's definitely reasonable to think that the series owes a big debt to Mass Effect.


It's right up there with the coolest moments in Star Trek. I genuinely hope that they use variations of this same effect for all Borg cubes in future.

Not just Borg cubes that are about to be easily defeated several frames later.

Im sorry, why is that one of the coolest moments in Trek? A borg cube coming through a transwarp conduit and crashlanding on a m class planet? What is so cool about it?
 

Iacomus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
341
Im sorry, why is that one of the coolest moments in Trek? A borg cube coming through a transwarp conduit and crashlanding on a m class planet? What is so cool about it?
This is just my opinion and not from the person you quoted.

We've seen Borg Cubes / Spheres and all that traveling in warp and transwarp but I liked it because of the visual details that the original show never had the budget to do. Before that scene we saw a little ship flying thorugh the chaotic nature, some embrace it, and others cower under tables, but then after a small interlude *boom* the Borg Cube arrives.

5 years ago we would have had a zoom in shaky cam footage of the Cube exiting, 10 years ago we would have had long shot of a cube exiting with no effects around it like it was nothing. The sound design, the imagery of parting smoke around the trasnwarp exit and the closeness of the following camera are all movie grade production shots.

Also a cube crashing into the atmopshere? That is the first time we've seen the size of that ship, have that much of an impact. They could have cut away, and just shown the ship Picard was on the whole way, saving budget and time but they didn't.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,982
So, are they going to upload Picard’s brain into the Golem to cure his Irumodic Syndrome? Maybe he could be the bridge between organic and synthetic life? They refreshed our memory that he has the disease, and that Golem is way too obvious a “Chekhov’s Gun” to leave open-ended
It has been absolutely telegraphed at this point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,504
England
I think next week will have Starfleet show up to remind people it is what they remember, with the Riker’s back in uniform on board the Enterprise with Worf and a large combined Klingon Cardassian fleet. It’ll probably end with them stopping Oh and the fleet, but Picard will collapse at the end with Agnes saying she can save him. The Destroyahhhhhh will survive to see another day. The Lore to Soji.

Next season will start with Picard recovering and being unaware that he’s the golem - or at least they’ll not want to say. It’ll be ambiguous in every way so you’re not quite sure. The attitudes ofthe federation will change if they feel the need to turn on Picard although his body is synthetic his mind is human.
Yeah, I think Picard’s message will have gotten through and Starfleet will call Riker in to lead a fleet and back him up. We’ll get a showdown between the Federation and the Romulans, Oh will be found out and fired, Sutra will be convinced not to contact the synthetic alliance (or be killed before she can) and, after the dust settles, Picard will push for the Hugh Act - ending the synthetic ban and securing stronger rights for synthetics and former Borg.

Everyone wins. Faith is renewed in the Federation, the Romulans are no longer scared of what might happen, synthetics are properly looked after and Picard takes all the former Borg back to his vineyard and becomes their ambassador and offers a path for them to reintegrate into society.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
This is just my opinion and not from the person you quoted.

We've seen Borg Cubes / Spheres and all that traveling in warp and transwarp but I liked it because of the visual details that the original show never had the budget to do. Before that scene we saw a little ship flying thorugh the chaotic nature, some embrace it, and others cower under tables, but then after a small interlude *boom* the Borg Cube arrives.

5 years ago we would have had a zoom in shaky cam footage of the Cube exiting, 10 years ago we would have had long shot of a cube exiting with no effects around it like it was nothing. The sound design, the imagery of parting smoke around the trasnwarp exit and the closeness of the following camera are all movie grade production shots.

Also a cube crashing into the atmopshere? That is the first time we've seen the size of that ship, have that much of an impact. They could have cut away, and just shown the ship Picard was on the whole way, saving budget and time but they didn't.
So, yeey special effects is what you're saying? That gets you guys hyped up?

This show truly is for Star Wars fans.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
i'm sorry but why are you such a dick?
Im asking why is showing a Borg cube impressive? What is so special about it?

Nothing except some special effects is the reply I get. So how am I a dick exactly?

I’m sorry this isn’t stretching your brain. Go climb a tree as Kirk would say.
Just let us who enjoy the show do so and go sit and mise about it with those who equally hate entertainment.
Ah yes, let us just circlejerk and no criticism can be made!

I've been watching this show for 9 episodes, it's fine if someone is able to enjoy it (I don't know how, with the stupid script, bad editting, weak acting, weird characters who make decisions that make no sense), but it's also fine if someone is not enjoying it who is allowed to voice his or her opinions.

Why would I not want to at least see how it plays out?
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
690
So, yeey special effects is what you're saying? That gets you guys hyped up?

This show truly is for Star Wars fans.
Please. People have always been interested in Star Trek's visual effects.

There's like a 4 minute shot of the Enterprise in the Motion Picture if memory serves - and that was a reward for fans as they hadn't seen the Enterprise in 10 years since the TV show. It's been 19 years since we saw the Borg. Getting excited over a good CG scene is fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,843
The Ocean
Im asking why is showing a Borg cube impressive? What is so special about it?

Nothing except some special effects is the reply I get. So how am I a dick exactly?



Ah yes, let us just circlejerk and no criticism can be made!

I've been watching this show for 9 episodes, it's fine if someone is able to enjoy it (I don't know how, with the stupid script, bad editting, weak acting, weird characters who make decisions that make no sense), but it's also fine if someone is not enjoying it who is allowed to voice his or her opinions.

Why would I not want to at least see how it plays out?
Every time

 
Feb 5, 2020
402
Please. People have always been interested in Star Trek's visual effects.

There's like a 4 minute shot of the Enterprise in the Motion Picture if memory serves - and that was a reward for fans as they hadn't seen the Enterprise in 10 years since the TV show. It's been 19 years since we saw the Borg. Getting excited over a good CG scene is fine.
It is fine, if there was something else to be excited about I guess. Some CG shots of a Borg Cube don't really interest me at all. I don't care about the quality of the CG, if the story, characters, motivations and everything else is basically shit.

So discussion is moot? This thread is just meant as a circlejerk for people who do like it or? What are you trying to convey with this picture?

Or is it the people who are enjoying it, don't really care about a discussion, and just because they like it they dont give a fuck if other fans don't like it? Because some of us actually have higher standards?
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
So discussion is moot?
I think "discussion" of whether I'm allowed to think a moment is cool is pretty moot, yes. Do you do this every time someone says something is cool and you didn't? Ask them to explain why and discuss it at length.

I think the Borg cube moment was cool. If you disagree, well, super. If you want to turn that into a lengthy discussion, that's....weird, but yeah, have fun with that. Without me.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
I think "discussion" of whether I'm allowed to think a moment is cool is pretty moot, yes. Do you do this every time someone says something is cool and you didn't? Ask them to explain why and discuss it at length.

I think the Borg cube moment was cool. If you disagree, well, super. If you want to turn that into a lengthy discussion, that's....weird, but yeah, have fun with that. Without me.
No not at all, but you made it out to be something really cool. I was just wondering, what exactly you thought was so cool about it? I was honestly curious.

Ofcourse its fine if you think its a cool moment. I didnt think anything of it, because I dont care about CG in these million dollar shows. I have no issue with the CG in this show, its great. I have no intention of turning it into a lenghty discussion. But then multiple members jump down my throat for saying that I didnt really feel one way or another about it.

The rest of the show, no, terrible. So sadly I dont really get the " Oh man what a cool moment! " that you did.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,843
The Ocean
It is fine, if there was something else to be excited about I guess. Some CG shots of a Borg Cube don't really interest me at all. I don't care about the quality of the CG, if the story, characters, motivations and everything else is basically shit.



So discussion is moot? This thread is just meant as a circlejerk for people who do like it or? What are you trying to convey with this picture?

Or is it the people who are enjoying it, don't really care about a discussion, and just because they like it they dont give a fuck if other fans don't like it? Because some of us actually have higher standards?
It’s the holier than thou attitude of let them eat cake just because you feel it doesn’t live up to your lofty standards. I’m enjoying the show for what it is. You’re allowed to hate it but please stop trying to convince us to do the same with your bilge
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
539
I think next week will have Starfleet show up to remind people it is what they remember, with the Riker’s back in uniform on board the Enterprise with Worf and a large combined Klingon Cardassian fleet. It’ll probably end with them stopping Oh and the fleet, but Picard will collapse at the end with Agnes saying she can save him. The Destroyahhhhhh will survive to see another day. The Lore to Soji.
It could be a cool moment if Riker leads a fleet of about 100 Federation ships.

Oh: Unless your sensors deceive you, you are outnumbered 218 to 100
Riker: We're not alone

* A fleet of about 100 Klingon ships led by Worf de-cloaks

Oh: Oh

Would be a cool throwback to "The Defector."
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
It’s the holier than thou attitude of let them eat cake just because you feel it doesn’t live up to your lofty standards. I’m enjoying the show for what it is. You’re allowed to hate it but please stop trying to convince us to do the same with your bilge
If you like it more power to you. I think its absolute garbage and all potential this show had is just wasted with this horrible tropes and stereotypes this show puts forward. Not even the character Picard is done right, other characters talk about him like he has some grand ego, lol that aint Picard.

I will watch the season ending and probably call it a day from there. If this is the quality writing I can expect from Trek, then I'm totally out. I already gave up on Discovery Season 2, didnt even bother with it.

And yes it is an houlier than thou attitude, can you blame me? I also think people who love the Transformers movies have absolute zero taste. Fine if people like it, but I consider it absolute drek.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,321
Oh cool, I didn’t know non-Vulcans could learn how to mind meld with extensive reading.

This last episode was so, so bad.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
please do and take that diskish attitude of your with you
I'm just being honest, if that hurts your feeling that I'm sorry. Not everyone has to find this show awesome. And there are plenty of facts that show that the story is dreadful, the script is bad, the acting is off, the characters are stereotypes and act insane.

Just because I find this to be the truth, and I think that people who are actually enjoying this are somehow able to look past all this bad shit, have a taste for something I cannot quite grasp. How is that dickish? Does everybody have to like everything? Are the Transformers movies good because some people think they are good? Please explain this to me.

Im not being a dick im just speaking my mind.

Oh cool, I didn’t know non-Vulcans could learn how to mind meld with extensive reading.

This last episode was so, so bad.
Oh yeah, non organics can learn it too. Makes perfect sense. Just by reading about it.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
No not at all, but you made it out to be something really cool.


I was just wondering, what exactly you thought was so cool about it?
I thought it was cool as a result of the coolness of it.

I have no intention of turning it into a lenghty discussion. But then multiple members jump down my throat for saying that I didnt really feel one way or another about it.
That's not what happened though. If you'd just commented "Meh I thought the Borg cube part was just good CG, I can take it or leave it", none of those posts would have happened.

Instead, you asked me to justify why I thought it was cool (for the record, it was because it was fucking cool), and then someone gave you a considered reply, and your behaviour somehow escalated to crying about Star Wars fans, belittling people who think special effects can be cool on a moment-to-moment basis, saying that this topic was just circle-jerking, and somehow then wondering why other people didn't want to continue discussing my one liner with you.

I don't want to definitively speak for them but I bet it's something to do with that attitude.

The rest of the show, no, terrible. So sadly I dont really get the " Oh man what a cool moment! " that you did.
There's criticism of the show right in the post that you quoted. The vast majority of my post that you quoted is critical discussion of the show. The vast majority of the other posts I've made about this episode have been criticism, generally leaning towards negative. Do you think there's a requirement that everything that people post about the show has to be negative?
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
I didnt ask you to justify anything. I asked why you thought it was cool.

And still, you cannot say why you thought it was cool. You just thought it was cool.

Fine, whatever.

And yes if it all boils down to " ooh CG is looking good " then yes I am dissapointed. CG to me doesnt make Star Trek. It's not even important to it.

You know what I'd find cool? If they could explain what exactly the "artifact" was, what was Romulans goals on the Cube? Why was Soji there?

Something. Maybe that will come next thursday.