Star Vs. The Forces of Evil ~FINAL Season~ |OT| There Goes A Shining Star

Oct 26, 2017
6,861
The problem with all of that is that it retroactively does away with ALL of the character development we've seen for Moon. The time they hid in Buff Frogs house and all of the sort of bonding moments over parenting she had with him and Eclipse all tossed out simply because they wanted to crank up the drama. It basically cheapens all of those moments to nothing more than Moon habing faked it. The rising of the town is just a weird one. WAS the town racist or was that just something we were told AFTER things went down? Ditto for helping build the town. What were they supposed to do? Live in squalor when they can improve their circumstances? A lot of things frankly feel like there was no setup whatsoever.

Edit: Ok I just read the synopsises for the S4 episodes with Moon since It's been a while and I don't have time to rewatch, but JESUS does it make this whole change horrid. Like there's bad, but this is another level of that.
We learned through the Cornball episode that pretty much all adult Mewmans were racist against monsters. All of Moon's villagers left because Eclipsa was Queen and had given their land back to the original monster owners. It isn't hard to believe a lot if them would resentment to the point of wanting to take their kingdom back by force.
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,121
The problem with all of that is that it retroactively does away with ALL of the character development we've seen for Moon. The time they hid in Buff Frogs house and all of the sort of bonding moments over parenting she had with him and Eclipse all tossed out simply because they wanted to crank up the drama. It basically cheapens all of those moments to nothing more than Moon habing faked it. The rising of the town is just a weird one. WAS the town racist or was that just something we were told AFTER things went down? Ditto for helping build the town. What were they supposed to do? Live in squalor when they can improve their circumstances? A lot of things frankly feel like there was no setup whatsoever.
People with prejudice can still be cordial and even respect individuals of the people they discriminate against. But Moon never really had a come to jesus moment when it came to monsters as a whole. The season was full of Mewmans who expressed absolute disdain towards monster integration and trumpeted Moon as a guiding light to the good old days of monster oppression, so yes they were racist. And no they weren't supposed to live in squalor (I'm wondering if Eclipsa's neglect to relocate the mewmans displaced by returning monster land back to monsters will be brought up because she should have to answer for that), but the town became clearly hostile towards monster despite there being no reason to. So it all felt pretty set up to me..

Edit: unlike endgame StarCo lol
 

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
274
We learned through the Cornball episode that pretty much all adult Mewmans were racist against monsters. All of Moon's villagers left because Eclipsa was Queen and had given their land back to the original monster owners. It isn't hard to believe a lot if them would resentment to the point of wanting to take their kingdom back by force.
A lot of them were shown to have been left homeless with nothing to go on and no plan to rehome them or anything. If I recall the cornball episode ended on a more positive note that things WERE changing and getting better and they trumpeted Moon because she was actually helping them better their lot. The whole cordial thing still doesn't change the fact that it was still horribly out if character for Moon to go along with such a stupid plan, even indulge the idea of a coup beimg taken well, or even simply ask Eclipse given she's shown zero fucks about actually trying to run things. It's all very tell, but don't show. Like the episode where Buff Frog leaves, in the previous episode we saw him get a position of liason of monster relations, but that role didn't go anywhere since he leaves soon after due to prejudice, but it's never built up since we never see what his role is or entails or what happened specifically to cause him to leave. It's been an ongoing problem series long. It sets up plot bits, but never builds them up or does anything with them, but still wants the payoff.
 

Exotoro

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
its just fucking weird to dedicate multiple episodes of your show to showing that these racist people are having their beliefs questioned and slowly accepting monsters as part of your society only to completely pull the rug from those kind of developments and make them do the worst thing they've ever done with no build up
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,241
Costa Rica
its just fucking weird to dedicate multiple episodes of your show to showing that these racist people are having their beliefs questioned and slowly accepting monsters as part of your society only to completely pull the rug from those kind of developments and make them do the worst thing they've ever done with no build up
That's literally what's happened around us.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
I'm iffy on the magic destruction plan. Magic has been the source of pretty much all their problems, but the decision to destroy it should not rest on one person's whim-especially that of an emotional teenager.

Not to mention there's a lot of potential for good it could do.

Also, I'm still not sold on Moon's heel turn. I could have seen her standing idly in her mewman town during Mina's rampage, but creating an army of super soldiers that she herself admitted were a dangerous mistake? No way. Regardless of her motivations, Moon has always taken the path of least destruction and casualty.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,255
Tampa, Fl
I felt it was pretty well explained that Moon was doing what she did because Mina was going to attack regardless. And she just thought that maybe she could help contain the crazy if she got involved.

Edit: her mistake was that she figured since she had known Mina her entire life, and the she was Mina's queen that Mina was still actually listening to her and wasn't going entirely genocide crazy.
 

Exotoro

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
That's literally what's happened around us.
Nah. Im not exactly sure what specifically you're talking about but politics has always been coming to this point one way or another. This show is doing a bad job of being reflective of that if that's the intent.

Point was that the show tried to push into two different directions with a ongoing theme, with one direction getting more screen time and the other occuring mostly off screen and dropped in the last set of episodes. It's really not satisfying and doesn't work with Moon's character to be reckless in the manner presented.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
I felt it was pretty well explained that Moon was doing what she did because Mina was going to attack regardless. And she just thought that maybe she could help contain the crazy if she got involved.

Edit: her mistake was that she figured since she had known Mina her entire life, and the she was Mina's queen that Mina was still actually listening to her and wasn't going entirely genocide crazy.
Considering Moon is the one who created the army, what could Mina have possibly done that's worse?
 

Exotoro

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
Moon actively made the crazy worse by creating an army. That moment still fucking gets me as like "this is BEYOND stupid" moment. This could have ended with the spell Eclipsa casts against the first armored person, which would have probably been just Mina in the armor. Giving her a whole army isn't just actively making the situation worse but I fail to read it as anything but an heavy endorsement of Mina, which isn't what this show wants us to think.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,255
Tampa, Fl
The idea as I understood it was Mina was out to kill Eclipsa (she was responsible for the berry assassination attempt) and Moon was trying to reign that in and reduce it to exile. She was even insuring those wounded were going to be healed.

She gave Mina the army figuring she could take the powers away. She just didn't realize that apparently only Solaria was the only one who could.

She also misjudged how crazy Mina was now. Like I said, she's know Mina her entire life and at one point she was a trusted advisor. She probably thought that there was a level of loyalty there that wasn't actually present.

Moon definitely messed up, but she had the best of intentions and just misjudged the situation on the field and the situation she was creating.

I'm just saying I see how she got to that point, not absolving her of her bad decisions.
 
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Psxphile

Psxphile

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,672
I'm not entirely convinced magic will cease to exist once Star is through with it. Glossaryck seems to have prepared for just that.

 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,121
its just fucking weird to dedicate multiple episodes of your show to showing that these racist people are having their beliefs questioned and slowly accepting monsters as part of your society only to completely pull the rug from those kind of developments and make them do the worst thing they've ever done with no build up
Some of the mewmans stayed around under Eclipsa with clear reservations. The cornball episode clearly showed that even if mewmans could tolerate being in the same sports event, they stil held on to their prejudices. It didn't end with reconciliation. Buff Frog saw hope in the kids, not the adults.

The mewmans that became part of Mina's army were from Moon's village and even contained people that weren't displaced. Pretty sure the only non-monster shown throughout the season that actually liked monsters were the spiderbites family.
Considering Moon is the one who created the army, what could Mina have possibly done that's worse?
Killed Eclipsa, Globgor, Meteora and all other monsters? Eclipsa only defeated the first Solarian soldier by burning all her spell slots to let out a nearly uncontrollable destruction spell that probably wouldn't be accounted for.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
Some of the mewmans stayed around under Eclipsa with clear reservations. The cornball episode clearly showed that even if mewmans could tolerate being in the same sports event, they stil held on to their prejudices. It didn't end with reconciliation. Buff Frog saw hope in the kids, not the adults.

The mewmans that became part of Mina's army were from Moon's village and even contained people that weren't displaced. Pretty sure the only non-monster shown throughout the season that actually liked monsters were the spiderbites family.
Killed Eclipsa, Globgor, Meteora and all other monsters? Eclipsa only defeated the first Solarian soldier by burning all her spell slots to let out a nearly uncontrollable destruction spell that probably wouldn't be accounted for.
If moon had stayed out of it, Eclipsa would have only needed to defeat Mina to end this whole fiasco. Instead, thanks to her meddling, we now have an army of solarian soldiers to deal with. I don’t see what Mina could have possibly done on her own that was worse than what the first soldier wanted to do.
 
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Psxphile

Psxphile

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,672
If moon had stayed out of it, Eclipsa would have only needed to defeat Mina to end this whole fiasco. Instead, thanks to her meddling, we now have an army of solarian soldiers to deal with. I don’t see what Mina could have possibly done on her own that was worse than what the first soldier wanted to do.
This is true. Moon needlessly swelled the enemy's ranks. She probably thought that large numbers would quell any thought of a prolonged battle and end things quicker on her terms. She really believed she had full control of the situation.


I actually find it surprising that Mina was able to locate and restore all those old armors to working order. Did Moon and/or the MHC help her with that too?
 

Exotoro

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
im pretty shocked that nobody has made any game of thrones references because the similarities and coincidences to what's happening between them are staggering on both a meta level and writing level
like, they end on the same day even
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
im pretty shocked that nobody has made any game of thrones references because the similarities and coincidences to what's happening between them are staggering on both a meta level and writing level
like, they end on the same day even
And both fan bases will get post-show depression when Sunday rolls around.

GoT fans are already in the early stages of it even.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
I'm definitely eager to hear more about The Owl House.

And some of you should check out OK K.O., it's not a Disney show but I personally think it's great!
 

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
274
im pretty shocked that nobody has made any game of thrones references because the similarities and coincidences to what's happening between them are staggering on both a meta level and writing level
like, they end on the same day even
Someone posted this Twitter about Got and I thought it summed up aspects of the series quite well.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DSilvermint/status/1125856091261136896[/URL]


This is true. Moon needlessly swelled the enemy's ranks. She probably thought that large numbers would quell any thought of a prolonged battle and end things quicker on her terms. She really believed she had full control of the situation.


I actually find it surprising that Mina was able to locate and restore all those old armors to working order. Did Moon and/or the MHC help her with that too?
The Moon part is part of what gets me. We've seen her be very careful and methodical with her methods yet this flies against all of that. The Twitter thing above explains this a lot better.
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,121
If moon had stayed out of it, Eclipsa would have only needed to defeat Mina to end this whole fiasco. Instead, thanks to her meddling, we now have an army of solarian soldiers to deal with. I don’t see what Mina could have possibly done on her own that was worse than what the first soldier wanted to do.
I think it was clear Eclipsa's spell wasn't thought to be in her arsenal considering the immense protection of the Solarian armor. It's a little murky how many Solarian armors Mina could get up and running but even just two would be too much.

For the people comparing it to GoT, SvtFoE is still good despite its flaws :p
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
I think it was clear Eclipsa's spell wasn't thought to be in her arsenal considering the immense protection of the Solarian armor. It's a little murky how many Solarian armors Mina could get up and running but even just two would be too much.

For the people comparing it to GoT, SvtFoE is still good despite its flaws :p
Not sure what Eclipsa’s spell has to do with the Solarian soldiers. Regardless, even three soldiers is still better than the hundreds that Moon created.

This twist just gets uglier the more I look at it. How does moon give mina that very touching talk about being more than you were made to be only to turn around and use her as for that very purpose? It’s just a really ugly heel turn that ruins a perfectly good character arc.
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,659
You know, does it make sense to have a separate thread for the final episodes, like with Adventure Time?
 

Wayoshi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
323
Speaking of ships. My wife and I hate Star/Marco because we loved the idea of teaching children that you can just be friends with the opposite genders without it ever being romantic.

We felt it was a very important lesson for kids that not enough media both for kids and adults are willing to show.
the show has gone to great pains to show their bond was special throughout the whole show. this was not the show for this particular lesson, not every show needs to have every progressive lesson ever.
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,121
Not sure what Eclipsa’s spell has to do with the Solarian soldiers. Regardless, even three soldiers is still better than the hundreds that Moon created.

This twist just gets uglier the more I look at it. How does moon give mina that very touching talk about being more than you were made to be only to turn around and use her as for that very purpose? It’s just a really ugly heel turn that ruins a perfectly good character arc.
The same thing happened with Zuko from Airbender. He was getting better but then heel turned. It stings, it feels bad, that's the point.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
The same thing happened with Zuko from Airbender. He was getting better but then heel turned. It stings, it feels bad, that's the point.
Zuko's heel turn came at a very natural point and involved a pivotal character in his storyline. It stung but it made sense. The same cannot be said of moon's which practically happened off screen.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
I feel like there was an effort by the writers to have Star and Marco end up with other people like we saw with Kelly and Tom, but somewhere down the line either:

1) someone higher up ordered the writers to have them end up together because it's just the norm with these shows

-or-

2) the team was hell bent on having some type of bitter/sad ending and they couldn't get it to work without star and Marco being a couple before it
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,659
The only thing that makes sense to me is they only realized the show was ending partway through this season, particularly after that Kelly library book episode. Establishing Kelly and Marco as a good couple but then doing zero with that relationship, and even Kelly as a character, after and breaking them up off screen is just so weird otherwise.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,861
The only thing that makes sense to me is they only realized the show was ending partway through this season, particularly after that Kelly library book episode. Establishing Kelly and Marco as a good couple but then doing zero with that relationship, and even Kelly as a character, after and breaking them up off screen is just so weird otherwise.
That was weird but they definitely knew this season was the last.
 

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
274
Zuko's heel turn came at a very natural point and involved a pivotal character in his storyline. It stung but it made sense. The same cannot be said of moon's which practically happened off screen.
Agreed. I had a discussion about this with a mod from the Star vs reddit. They were not pleased AT ALL with the direction they went with her character.

I feel like there was an effort by the writers to have Star and Marco end up with other people like we saw with Kelly and Tom, but somewhere down the line either:

1) someone higher up ordered the writers to have them end up together because it's just the norm with these shows

-or-

2) the team was hell bent on having some type of bitter/sad ending and they couldn't get it to work without star and Marco being a couple before it
I could see these being a thing. It's just so formulaic though, ugh.

The only thing that makes sense to me is they only realized the show was ending partway through this season, particularly after that Kelly library book episode. Establishing Kelly and Marco as a good couple but then doing zero with that relationship, and even Kelly as a character, after and breaking them up off screen is just so weird otherwise.
They did the same with Jackie for the longest time. They hook up in Bonbon, but then nothing for the longest time. Even the episodes that featured her weren't about her of their relationship, but more about either Star or Marco reacting and feelings to said relationship. Never about her or the relationship itself.
 
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Psxphile

Psxphile

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Oct 27, 2017
3,672
Guys, Daron and co. went into Season 4 knowing it'll be their last, they've been setting this up since the middle of production on Season 3. And yes, that means their previous plans for ending the show had to be altered or delayed to make it work. Which probably explains a few things.
 

Exotoro

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
so i guess there really is no excuse for the poor writing of most of the relationships in this show then :/\

well, i guess poor is a the wrong word to use here. "virtually nonexistent"?
 
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Psxphile

Psxphile

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,672
Just what kind of excuse would have sufficed?


Final thread reminder that the last-ever episode of Star Vs. The Forces of Evil will air tomorrow morning @ 7:30 AM:

Sunday, May 19
Star vs. the Forces of Evil —Cleaved
(7:30 — 8:00 A.M. EDT)


Star attempts to solve all of her problems.
Star and Marco face their final conflict.


Rhina the Riddled, if we go by last week's promo, might be featured in tomorrow's episode. Here's her chapter spread in the Magic Book of Spells, which was released back in September of last year: this was what was used as her "Royal Inscription":



(after Rhina's reign came Celena, Estrella, Comet and Moon's)

Before last week's episodes it could have been inferred to represent Star ending the royal line of succession or the monarchy, but now it could well be foreshadowing the end of all magic... or perhaps an unexplained "third" thing. Or all of the above! But whatever it is, it will happen on Star's watch.

Time to find out why she's The Underestimated.

EDIT:

she ships it
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,878
Just what kind of excuse would have sufficed?


Final thread reminder that the last-ever episode of Star Vs. The Forces of Evil will air tomorrow morning @ 7:30 AM:

Sunday, May 19
Star vs. the Forces of Evil —Cleaved
(7:30 — 8:00 A.M. EDT)


Star attempts to solve all of her problems.
Star and Marco face their final conflict.


Rhina the Riddled, if we go by last week's promo, might be featured in tomorrow's episode. Here's her chapter spread in the Magic Book of Spells, which was released back in September of last year: this was what was used as her "Royal Inscription":



(after Rhina's reign came Celena, Estrella, Comet and Moon's)
In the final episode promo last week there is a point where it shows what seems to be 2 sets of glowing eyes and each has corresponding cheek symbols (which would indicates a face of a Mewni queen) with one of them being the infinity symbol so it does look like she will have some kind of appearance other from the grandma room in the previous ep.

Lets see what happens.
 
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