Star Wars EP.9 Story Rumor/Leak So Far (Spoiler Obiviously) (Now with poll!)

Are you believe The Leak or not

  • It's true all of it.

    Votes: 706 78.4%
  • Noooo! That's not true That's impossible!

    Votes: 195 21.6%

  • Total voters
    901

Gambit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
656
Can't wait to make legends Legacy of The Force vs Canon Sequel Trilogy Thread.
You should, once the trilogy has ended. Personally, I thought the EU became bad very quickly but I much prefer the Thrawn trilogy to all the canonical stuff now. (Disclaimer: I read them when I was like 14 and not since)
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,144
England
You should, once the trilogy has ended. Personally, I thought the EU became bad very quickly but I much prefer the Thrawn trilogy to all the canonical stuff now. (Disclaimer: I read them when I was like 14 and not since)
The Thrawn approach is a lot better than the First Order one so far. They're fundamentally the same thing - remnants of the Empire trying to take back the galaxy from the rebels that defeated them - but aside from the stupid clone thing, Thrawn has proven thus far to be a much better antagonist than Snoke or Ben.
 

Desparadina

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
354
Saying Rey isn't an interesting character is not misogyny.

I think it's more that people expected more out of the new characters and now that it's all said and done it's so horribly shallow and unearned that it's hard to cope for many. Including fans of TFA and some of TLJ.

If Kylo dies like rumored holy shit.

As for Finn and Poe, I read the entire leak and I can't even remember what they do in this film so yeah, so much for being main characters lmao.
It's not really the fact that they don't find Rey interesting that I found to be misogynist about their stances but the fact that a lot of the people i saw saying this were supposedly kylo (o reylo) stans, or they believed heavily in the idea of ben getting redeemed or that Ben should be the main character. It was more of the fact that they were so willing to discard Rey at the mere mention of Ben dying that kinda made it feel like a total shitshow. Anyways it's just my own anecdotal experience in one single thread on a Reddit post (the Jedi Paxis leaks)

yeah after the treatment of Finn and Poe as their example of diversity LF is gonna have to do quite a bit to make me feel any earnest excitement at their next attempts
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,820
New Jersey
The Thrawn approach is a lot better than the First Order one so far. They're fundamentally the same thing - remnants of the Empire trying to take back the galaxy from the rebels that defeated them - but aside from the stupid clone thing, Thrawn has proven thus far to be a much better antagonist than Snoke or Ben.
The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series. The foundation was just incredibly shallow. Star Wars also hadn't been scarred by the prequels yet, so there was none of this "you can't have politics in Star Wars because of the prequels" nonsense that JJ espouses.
 

Gunslinger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,013
The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series.
Yeah while TLJ is utter trash imo but TFA is to be blamed which just went for a reboot due to Disney rushing and having no idea what to do. They pulled DC with SW. Not a single thing is good about the sequel trilogy.
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,078
There didn't really need to be a main villain. My most wanted story with this set of characters asks where they keep getting fucking Stormtroopers and now Sith Troopers.

RoS introduces this story but they should have been more than hinted at in TFA because it is should have been Finn's major arc. At least they're getting around to it, so JJ gets a little credit.

I'm all in for Sheev because Ian Mcdiarmid is wonderful. Hopefully I can get lost in a epic but hammy final battle.
 

Thatguy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,473
Seattle WA
The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series. The foundation was just incredibly shallow. Star Wars also hadn't been scarred by the prequels yet, so there was none of this "you can't have politics in Star Wars because of the prequels" nonsense that JJ espouses.
At the end of TFA it felt like this was going to be a story of the status quo for the Galaxy changing. Luke went in search of the first Jedi Temple for a reason. Rey mysteriously awakened, but the movie was called the FORCE awakens, not a new awakening. They had all the clues in place to tell the story of how Luke did something to the force itself and now way more people will have it. Ep 8 should have chronicled this, and Rey is set up as the first and brightest pupil of this new paradigm. Ep 8 is also where Snoke gets a story and Rey takes a serious L. Ep9 is the first success of the new force users, but they learn the dark side is Awoken too and you get another Ep3 tier total destruction. Then you do 10-12 as the rise of the new force users and finally victory. Snoke wasn't necessary to be the big bad, and a new secret puppetmaster would have been fine. Thrawn himself would have been welcome. Or Rey going dark. Kylo was going to be redeemed from the start as it's his only interesting story. That could happen ep9. One hero going dark-light, the other light-dark would have been interesting.

Basically Ep8 just destroyed all hope of a decent story in the name of contrarian expectation subversion. It's like a chef serving milk with a steak. Yeah, it's unexpected, but we just wanted something good and is tried and true.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,915
There didn't really need to be a main villain. My most wanted story with this set of characters asks where they keep getting fucking Stormtroopers and now Sith Troopers.

RoS introduces this story but they should have been more than hinted at in TFA because it is should have been Finn's major arc. At least they're getting around to it, so JJ gets a little credit.

I'm all in for Sheev because Ian Mcdiarmid is wonderful. Hopefully I can get lost in a epic but hammy final battle.
Now they have to explain how an entire fleet’s worth of ISD crew has been kept alive for over 30+ years lol
 

Altera

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,867
I truly hope that Kylo just falling to never be seen again leak is completely false. What a shitty send off for the character and the Skywalker/Solo bloodline. Whether it's good or bad, I think he's by far the most interesting character in this new trilogy. Finn was almost interesting, and well...Rey is just Rey. There's really not much to say about her.

I'm hoping this trilogy can end on a good note after the first two movies were duds (to me), but damn.

RIP Ben

 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,777
Oh wow if these leaks are true the internet is going to be a fun place after the release.
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,989
I read the leaks and I actually dig how the story ends. Except the Kylo thing, but I don't believe that's how his story ends at all. That will be redone.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,220
The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series. The foundation was just incredibly shallow. Star Wars also hadn't been scarred by the prequels yet, so there was none of this "you can't have politics in Star Wars because of the prequels" nonsense that JJ espouses.
The biggest thing is that the Thrawn Trilogy was entirely planned out and written by one guy from start to finish, so we got none of the bullshit jarring shifts in tone and incompatible story-telling methods like we did moving from TFA to TLJ.

And I say that as someone who ALWAYS found Timothy Zahn and ESPECIALLY the Thrawn Trilogy overrated as all hell. Its a fucking masterpiece compared to the ST we actually got...
 

kIdMuScLe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
690
Yeah while TLJ is utter trash imo but TFA is to be blamed which just went for a reboot due to Disney rushing and having no idea what to do. They pulled DC with SW. Not a single thing is good about the sequel trilogy.
I hate that they only wanted to please a certain group of SW fans with this ST... the man babies of the OT. Completely ignoring the fans who grew up with the PT movies and liking the first 6episodss.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
I hate that they only wanted to please a certain group of SW fans with this ST... the man babies of the OT. Completely ignoring the fans who grew up with the PT movies and liking the first 6episodss.
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
 

Seeya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,224
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
It goes a bit deeper than that. Because the Prequels were viewed as blasphemous, the result of that mindset shaped the project that would become TFA into an ‘apology movie’ meant to go back to the ‘tried and true’.

The Prequels were bad, but I never needed an ‘apology movie’, especially when that set the framework for the upcoming trilogy and inherently limited it.

That said you could STILL tell an interesting story with that setup, but the Rian Johnson reacted so negatively to ‘playing it safe’ that he took most of the planned beats for the trilogy and blew them up on purpose to try and force IX into a new direction.

But you can’t create a cynical (yes it was cynical and poorly executed, no the half hearted reaffirming in TLJs third act doesn’t make up for the plot threads it destroyed along the way along with the massive opportunities wasted to play at a destructive deconstruction) deconstruction as a bridge in a trilogy, it just doesn’t work, because story structure builds to conclusions within its own narrative.

So JJ Abrams is stuck backtracking where possible to this uneven bipolar mess that squandered the setups from TFA (no they weren’t all pointless mystery boxes, as the plans for Palpatine etc were long formed) in the mid chapter and now has to rush to create a conclusion.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,220
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
Yet the ST has been VERY cartoony at times. TLJ starts with a Yo Mama joke, which is just a couple notches above the "Jar Jar steps in poo" jokes from the PT...
 

kIdMuScLe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
690
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
I knew this Trilogy was gonna have is owntone but I meant more about the homages. They went all in to please OT fans only. we didn’t even get a anakin force ghost who would’ve made more sense to appear to talk to Luke instead of yoda. I wouldn’t expect a obi wan force ghost to appear since Alec Guinness is gone. I’m just disappointed overall since they could’ve done they own path. 😓
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
Yet the ST has been VERY cartoony at times. TLJ starts with a Yo Mama joke, which is just a couple notches above the "Jar Jar steps in poo" jokes from the PT...
Tonally it's not even close overall though, the ST and OT are much more alike in tone and feel ... they basically feel like "space Westerns" with a gritty sci-fi/fantasy feel for the most part.

The prequels just straight up feel like cartoons for 8 year olds mixed with bizarre politics to put the same 8 year olds to sleep. The odd juxtaposition of no personality from the human characters (well unless whiny counts for Anakin) while every CG character is a total buffoon.

It's not even just Jar Jar ... "Yousa no tinkin yousa better than da Gooooongans?! Meeeeeeesa likes dis!!!!!" .... "You fooooool! I've been trained in the Jedi arts by your Count Dooooookoooooo" jeezus this is how you talk to a 2 year old.

It's just light years away from Harrison Ford's banter, they may as well be different franchises.

The prequels feel like you're being told a story basically by an 8 year old using his/her action figures (oh now Obi-Wan is riding a dinosaur chasing after General Cartoony on a spin cycle ... alrighty then). That's the best way I can describe it with Lucas having boring "talk scenes" throw in the middle with zero emotion from the actors.
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,214
Tonally it's not even close overall though, the ST and OT are much more alike in tone and feel ... they basically feel like "space Westerns" with a gritty sci-fi/fantasy feel for the most part.

The prequels just straight up feel like cartoons for 8 year olds mixed with bizarre politics to put the same 8 year olds to sleep. The odd juxtaposition of no personality from the human characters (well unless whiny counts for Anakin) while every CG character is a total buffoon.

It's not even just Jar Jar ... "Yousa no tinkin yousa better than da Gooooongans?! Meeeeeeesa likes dis!!!!!" .... "You fooooool! I've been trained in the Jedi arts by your Count Dooooookoooooo" jeezus this is how you talk to a 2 year old.

It's just light years away from Harrison Ford's banter, they may as well be different franchises.

The prequels feel like you're being told a story basically by an 8 year old using his/her action figures (oh now Obi-Wan is riding a dinosaur chasing after General Cartoony on a spin cycle ... alrighty then). That's the best way I can describe it with Lucas having boring "talk scenes" throw in the middle with zero emotion from the actors.
Humpf, typical.

You're shorter than I expected.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
Or or get this...Have their own style! Unheard of I know.

Or what about just mixing the best out of the two styles? Fucking Dave Filoni had zero problems doing that. The people behind Jedi Fallen order seemingly managed to do it too. Can't be that hard
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
Or or get this...Have their own style! Unheard of I know.
Why should they though really? It's supposed to be a connected saga is it not? It makes no sense for the entire tone/style of the universe to shift completely because 20 years has passed.

If they wanna do a SW with a dramatically different tone, that should be an entirely new trilogy set in a very different time line divorced from the current characters.

Like if Nolan for whatever reason decided to do a 4th Batman movie 20 years after TDKR ... it should still feel similar to the other movies, it would make no sense if the style was completely different.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
Why should they though really? It's supposed to be a connected saga is it not? It makes no sense for the entire tone/style of the universe to shift completely because 20 years has passed.

If they wanna do a SW with a dramatically different tone, that should be an entirely new trilogy set in a very different time line divorced from the current characters.

Like if Nolan for whatever reason decided to do a 4th Batman movie 20 years after TDKR ... it should still feel similar to the other movies, it would make no sense if the style was completely different.
You're right. Its impossible! If only we had seen a franchise were movies have their own unique style and they all still feel connected.

But how? How could you possibly make say 24 movies like that? It's impossible I tell you!
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
You're right. Its impossible! If only we had seen a franchise were movies have their own unique style and they all still feel connected.

But how? How could you possibly make say 24 movies like that? It's impossible I tell you!
It's harder to pull off, Marvel does actually have a pretty unified tone for the most part, some of the characters are sillier than others but the humor is still the same basic "cool jokes/pop culture references for adults" thing, it's not like Spider-Man has goofy cartoon style for 8-year-olds and Black Panther is super dark. The furthest they go is basically modulating the amount of jokes, some of the IP are more jokey than others, but all the films have some jokes.

Also this is something Star Wars fans are gonna have to learn the hard way ... just because something works in Marvel doesn't mean it works in Star Wars.

The PT are like Batman & Robin (or being nice, Batman Forever) ... the OT is like Batman Begins/TDK ... the ST is like The Dark Knight Rises, one of those three doesn't fit the other two at all. One is way too cartoony in tone to match up with the others. Rises may have its problems, but it still feels in line with BB/TDK.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
It's harder to pull off, Marvel does actually have a pretty unified tone for the most part, some of the characters are sillier than others but the humor is still the same basic "cool jokes/pop culture references for adults" thing, it's not like Spider-Man has goofy cartoon style for 8-year-olds.

Also this is something Star Wars fans are gonna have to learn the hard way ... just because something works in Marvel doesn't mean it works in Star Wars.

The PT are like Batman & Robin (or being nice, Batman Forever) ... the OT is like Batman Begins/TDK ... the ST is like The Dark Knight Rises, one of those three doesn't fit the other two at all. One is way too cartoony in tone to match up with the others.
No its not. Stop making excuses for mediocrity. Star Wars is as varied as the Marvel Universe. You can absolutely made a heist film, a story about a king, a story about a soldier and a story about a robot man in The Star Wars Universe. It takes effort and time but it can be done

Acting like "you can't make the prequels work in Star Wars" when The Clone Wars, Rebels and lots of other media have already showed how much potential that part of story has is ridiculous.

The sole reason why were getting a Kenobi series is because people are hungry for the good in the prequels. They have always been. The Prequel content is what's been keeping Battlefront 2 alive and with an active playerbase too.

And finally, Solo already made YOU learn the hard way that wanking to the OT is not going to work forever.
 
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The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,384
I honestly never gave two shits about the trilogies having different tones. Everytime I hear that phrase "it feels like Star Wars" I'm just like... I don't give a fuck. I can go from space shakespeare meme machine ROTS to ANH to KOTOR 2 like nothing.

In fact that's actually what I did when I finally got into SWs. KOTOR got me into it and then I just blasted through all the movies in an order I can't remember. (People should stop making such a big deal about the order too)

Not having decades old nostalgia bog you down does wonders.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
I honestly never gave two shits about the trilogies having different tones. Everytime I hear that phrase "it feels like Star Wars" I'm just like... I don't give a fuck. I can go from space shakespeare meme machine ROTS to ANH to KOTOR 2 like nothing.

In fact that's actually what I did when I finally got into SWs. KOTOR got me into it and then I just blasted through all the movies in an order I can't remember. (People should stop making such a big deal about the order too)

Not having decades old nostalgia bog you down does wonders.
Preach.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
I honestly never gave two shits about the trilogies having different tones. Everytime I hear that phrase "it feels like Star Wars" I'm just like... I don't give a fuck. I can go from space shakespeare meme machine ROTS to ANH to KOTOR 2 like nothing.

In fact that's actually what I did when I finally got into SWs. KOTOR got me into it and then I just blasted through all the movies in an order I can't remember. (People should stop making such a big deal about the order too)

Not having decades old nostalgia bog you down does wonders.
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.

The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.

It wouldn't work.

I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.

Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:


My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.

The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai epic combo in the OT.
 
Jul 2, 2019
786
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.

The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.

It wouldn't work.

I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.

Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:


My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.

The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai epic combo in the OT.
It wasn’t an accident at all. Plenty of documentaries and commentaries show that. The prequels are supposed to look new to show the degradation that took place once the empire rose
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
It wasn’t an accident at all. Plenty of documentaries and commentaries show that. The prequels are supposed to look new to show the degradation that took place once the empire rose
Dialing up the cartoony-ness to a super high level though ... that's a conscious choice.

I think if you look at the CG musical number in ROTJ and Lucas claiming that's what he always wanted, it becomes a tip off he wanted the OT to be a lot more cartoony than it ended up being. In ROTJ you start to see a lot more cartoony feel being forced into certain sections of the film as well.

He had to settle for a tone more in line with a Western in Space + Kurosawa Samurai film because the special effects simply wouldn't allow him to make a film that goofy.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.

The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.

It wouldn't work.

I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.

Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:


My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.

The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai film combo in the OT.
Imagine the follow up to Thor 2 being a movie full of vibrant shiny colors!

Imagine following up a campy movie like The First Avenger with a serious spy film!

Imagine going from Happy Go Lucky Chamber of Secrets to the grittier Prisoner of Azkaban

Would never work!

You keep going on and on about Nolan, tell you what, a director like Nolan could 100% move his Batman into a more lighthearted angle should he want to.

Audiences now eat that stuff up when you pull it off correctly.

Your argument reeks of bias.
 
Jul 2, 2019
786
Dialing up the cartoony-ness to a super high level though ... that's a conscious choice.

I think if you look at the CG musical number in ROTJ and Lucas claiming that's what he always wanted, it becomes a tip off he wanted the OT to be a lot more cartoony that it ended up being. In ROTJ you start to see a lot more cartoony feel being forced into certain sections of the film.

He had to settle for a tone more in line with a Western in Space + Kurosawa Samurai film because the special effects simply wouldn't allow him to make a film that goofy.
I think Lucas is completely bullshtting when he says things like ‘this what I always wanted’. Obviously some choices come out necessity but that’s different than the entire western aesthetic being an accident
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
Imagine the follow up to Thor 2 being a movie full of vibrant shiny colors!

Imagine following up a campy movie like The First Avenger with a serious spy film!

Imagine going from Happy Go Lucky Chamber of Secrets to the grittier Prisoner of Azkaban

Would never work!

You keep going on and on about Nolan, tell you what, a director like Nolan could 100% move his Batman into a more lighthearted angle should he want to.

Audiences now eat that stuff up when you pull it off correctly.

Your argument reeks of bias.
Those aren't tonally that big of a jump (Harry Potter specifically). Thor is the only one that's a big jump but there's always been a large comedic undercurrent to that character ... they turn him into a complete joke in a fat suit in Avengers Endgame.

Star Wars went from a live action space Western to over the top cartoon cheese. If it works for you, great, but it didn't work for a lot of people.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
Those aren't tonally that big of a jump (Harry Potter specifically). Thor is the only one that's a big jump but there's always been a large comedic undercurrent to that character ... they turn him into a complete joke in Avengers Endgame.

Star Wars went from a live action space Western to over the top cartoon cheese. If it works for you, great, but it didn't work for a lot of people.
Oh but what's this? I thought you said they could never work? Despite many examples provided?

Now those do shift in tone but they don't "count".

Go ahead. Enjoy your death star 7 with a revived for 4th time Palpatine being the real Uncle of Larry Skywalker. I guess that's how a franchise remains healthy.

I just hope both Filoni and Feige bring in some actual creativity to this franchise. Lord knows it needs it
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
I think Lucas is completely bullshtting when he says things like ‘this what I always wanted’. Obviously some choices come out necessity but that’s different than the entire western aesthetic being an accident
I get the sense a lot of the OT is a fluke lightning in a bottle. He didn't know Darth Vader was supposed to be Luke's father, he made that shit up as he went along because it fit well and that completely turned the story on its head and gave Luke's otherwise pretty dull character a huge dimension now because he had to carry the shame of a very dark family secret on his shoulders.

He had a massively charismatic Harrison Ford fall into his lap that helped bring a lot of the wackier elements of Star Wars and make them feel more grounded as well. Another fortunate stroke of luck.

He didn't know Luke and Leia would be brother/sister. He had to focus on the story and characters more because he didn't have CGI to cater to his worst creative instincts. That kept him in check.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
Oh but what's this? I thought you said they could never work? Despite many examples provided?

Now those do shift in tone but they don't "count".

Go ahead. Enjoy your death star 7 with a revived Palpatine being the Uncle of Larry Skywalker. I guess that's how a franchise remains healthy.
It doesn't work in Star Wars relative to the PT/ST.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,384
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.

The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.

It wouldn't work.

I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.

Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:


My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.

The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai film combo in the OT.
I don't care to talk about the other issues of the prequels, I'll agree with all of them, you're not getting an argument from me.

Like I just said, none of that tonal stuff bothers me. Jar Jar talking about doodoo, Kreia deconstructing SWs, Tarkin putting on his air of professionalism, I take it all together. I had no preconceived notions of what SWs "should be" when I got into it. All this wacky nonsense coming together is just normal to me.

And if Nolan did do that I'd just take it for what it was or ignore it. I'm just not attached to that kind of stuff, the original trilogy ended so I'm happy. Don't care if Mr.Freeze pops up later making ice puns. I'd be the one cracking up at how mad everyone else would be, unless it was boring, that's the worst sin.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
Except it did. And it defined Star Wars for many many people.
It didn't for a lot of people, the fact that those films are still controversial 20 years later even amongst the SW fanbase proves that. The general public doesn't give much of a shit about those films at all.

The main legacy they have are being the butt end of meme jokes on the internet.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
It didn't for a lot of people, the fact that those films are still controversial 20 years later even amongst the SW fanbase proves that. The general public doesn't give much of a shit about those films at all.

The main legacy they have are being the butt end of meme jokes on the internet.
Are you really going to use "Not everyone loved them and they were controversial"to defend the trilogy that has both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi on it?

People will keep doing the same shitty videos about The Last Jedi as they did the prequels for years to come.

But hey, let's ignore the very real demographic that's all about those star wars eras. That'll be great for business.

Again,you don't see Marvel tripping over itself to pretend it's "controversial" choices never happened.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,306
Are you really going to use "Not everyone loved them and they were controversial"to defend the trilogy that has both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi on it?

People will keep doing the same shitty about The Last Jedi as they did the prequels for years to come.
That's fine, people can like what they want, all I was saying is at least *tonally* the ST feels like it takes place in the same world as the OT.

The PT feels like it takes place in a detached Saturday morning cartoon version of that universe.

Even Marvel, honestly the films don't vary in tone nearly as much as people think. There's basically 2/22 that are in the "more serious" (Black Panther and Cap America Winter Soldier) camp, but those are still very action oriented, "safe and fun" films in the Marvel style that still have a fair amount of jokes. It's not like Winter Soldier is some somber, dark film that ever even approaches The Dark Knight let alone something like The Joker. Not even close.
 
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DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,330
User Banned (1 day): Inflammatory and antagonistic drive-by
Prequel fans cry harder. Your favourite movies suck and no amount of revisionist history from 20 year olds is going to change that fact.

Also, maximum side eye to the types of people huffing and puffing that Filoni or Feige should be running the show. Their lack of a vagina is totally not relevant, totally.

ALSO, the Clone Wars cartoon is...alright? Basically a lipstick on a pig situation.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,733
Costa Rica
Prequel fans cry harder. Your favourite movies suck and no amount of revisionist history from 20 year olds is going to change that fact.

Also, maximum side eye to the types of people insisting Filoni or Feige should be running the show. Their lack of a vagina is totally not relevant, totally.

ALSO, the Clone Wars cartoon is...alright? Basically a lipstick on a pig situation.
Ah yes, I want Filoni running the ship (even though I only said I wanted him to make movies) because he has dick. Of course I am sexist, that's the only logical conclusion

Fuck. Outta. Here. With. That. Shit.
 
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Jun 14, 2019
599
It wouldn't suprise me actually if snoke was going to be palpatine ( goes with the leaks or some leaks for this film of matt Smith being palp in different body too) . I remember many actually thinking this just after force awakens and it certainly gave that vibe of something like that too.
 

antonz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,297
The people who spend so much time complaining about how shitty the Prequels are more often then not are just the reverse side of the coin of Current Haters. The fact that 20 years later you are still bitching about a couple movies says more about you then the movies. You people were such toxic assholes the creator of Star Wars ran away from the franchise. And now you bitch about how the Sequel trilogy has been handled.

A serious flaw with the Prequels was cover an almost 2 decade period of time in 6 hours. Frankly I view it as a flaw in the Sequel Trilogy that The whole thing essentially takes place over the course of like 2 days. First Order unleashes it self ,Wipes out Republic, Snoke dies all happens in like a 24 hour period. The ST is almost too much happening too fast.
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,078
No one here hates the prequels that much. A lot of people are looking forward to Palpatine and are asking where Anakin is. Despite the weirdness of those movies, fans want those stories to continue alongside Rey's.

Bad movies just happen sometimes. That doesn't mean the series can't bounce back. Rocky V happened, but Rocky Balboa and Creed were great. (I haven't seen Creed II) >_<.
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,214
Prequel fans cry harder. Your favourite movies suck and no amount of revisionist history from 20 year olds is going to change that fact.

Also, maximum side eye to the types of people huffing and puffing that Filoni or Feige should be running the show. Their lack of a vagina is totally not relevant, totally.

ALSO, the Clone Wars cartoon is...alright? Basically a lipstick on a pig situation.


For fuck sake you could have warned, I entered the thread without my barf bag and now there's vomit all over the place.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
12,304
The only reason im interested in the grand finale of this lame trilogy is because Sheev is on it, leaving Kylo as the main villain would have been silly he is nothing more than a wannabe Vader and Snoke was just a joke.

The Emperor comes to save this thing, i hope he isn't killed off in this one