Can't wait to make legends Legacy of The Force vs Canon Sequel Trilogy Thread.
You should, once the trilogy has ended. Personally, I thought the EU became bad very quickly but I much prefer the Thrawn trilogy to all the canonical stuff now. (Disclaimer: I read them when I was like 14 and not since)
Saying Rey isn't an interesting character is not misogyny.
I think it's more that people expected more out of the new characters and now that it's all said and done it's so horribly shallow and unearned that it's hard to cope for many. Including fans of TFA and some of TLJ.
If Kylo dies like rumored holy shit.
As for Finn and Poe, I read the entire leak and I can't even remember what they do in this film so yeah, so much for being main characters lmao.
The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series. The foundation was just incredibly shallow. Star Wars also hadn't been scarred by the prequels yet, so there was none of this "you can't have politics in Star Wars because of the prequels" nonsense that JJ espouses.The Thrawn approach is a lot better than the First Order one so far. They're fundamentally the same thing - remnants of the Empire trying to take back the galaxy from the rebels that defeated them - but aside from the stupid clone thing, Thrawn has proven thus far to be a much better antagonist than Snoke or Ben.
Yeah while TLJ is utter trash imo but TFA is to be blamed which just went for a reboot due to Disney rushing and having no idea what to do. They pulled DC with SW. Not a single thing is good about the sequel trilogy.The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series.
At the end of TFA it felt like this was going to be a story of the status quo for the Galaxy changing. Luke went in search of the first Jedi Temple for a reason. Rey mysteriously awakened, but the movie was called the FORCE awakens, not a new awakening. They had all the clues in place to tell the story of how Luke did something to the force itself and now way more people will have it. Ep 8 should have chronicled this, and Rey is set up as the first and brightest pupil of this new paradigm. Ep 8 is also where Snoke gets a story and Rey takes a serious L. Ep9 is the first success of the new force users, but they learn the dark side is Awoken too and you get another Ep3 tier total destruction. Then you do 10-12 as the rise of the new force users and finally victory. Snoke wasn't necessary to be the big bad, and a new secret puppetmaster would have been fine. Thrawn himself would have been welcome. Or Rey going dark. Kylo was going to be redeemed from the start as it's his only interesting story. That could happen ep9. One hero going dark-light, the other light-dark would have been interesting.The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series. The foundation was just incredibly shallow. Star Wars also hadn't been scarred by the prequels yet, so there was none of this "you can't have politics in Star Wars because of the prequels" nonsense that JJ espouses.
Now they have to explain how an entire fleet's worth of ISD crew has been kept alive for over 30+ years lolThere didn't really need to be a main villain. My most wanted story with this set of characters asks where they keep getting fucking Stormtroopers and now Sith Troopers.
RoS introduces this story but they should have been more than hinted at in TFA because it is should have been Finn's major arc. At least they're getting around to it, so JJ gets a little credit.
I'm all in for Sheev because Ian Mcdiarmid is wonderful. Hopefully I can get lost in a epic but hammy final battle.
I read the leaks and I actually dig how the story ends. Except the Kylo thing, but I don't believe that's how his story ends at all. That will be redone.
The Thrawn trilogy reaps the benefits of attempting to create coherent continuity and lore. It's a natural follow-up to the OT without retreading it or invalidating it. The sequel trilogy just never recovered from the jarring reset that TFA forced onto the series. The foundation was just incredibly shallow. Star Wars also hadn't been scarred by the prequels yet, so there was none of this "you can't have politics in Star Wars because of the prequels" nonsense that JJ espouses.
Yeah while TLJ is utter trash imo but TFA is to be blamed which just went for a reboot due to Disney rushing and having no idea what to do. They pulled DC with SW. Not a single thing is good about the sequel trilogy.
I hate that they only wanted to please a certain group of SW fans with this ST... the man babies of the OT. Completely ignoring the fans who grew up with the PT movies and liking the first 6episodss.
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
Yet the ST has been VERY cartoony at times. TLJ starts with a Yo Mama joke, which is just a couple notches above the "Jar Jar steps in poo" jokes from the PT...
Tonally it's not even close overall though, the ST and OT are much more alike in tone and feel ... they basically feel like "space Westerns" with a gritty sci-fi/fantasy feel for the most part.
The prequels just straight up feel like cartoons for 8 year olds mixed with bizarre politics to put the same 8 year olds to sleep. The odd juxtaposition of no personality from the human characters (well unless whiny counts for Anakin) while every CG character is a total buffoon.
It's not even just Jar Jar ... "Yousa no tinkin yousa better than da Gooooongans?! Meeeeeeesa likes dis!!!!!" .... "You fooooool! I've been trained in the Jedi arts by your Count Dooooookoooooo" jeezus this is how you talk to a 2 year old.
It's just light years away from Harrison Ford's banter, they may as well be different franchises.
The prequels feel like you're being told a story basically by an 8 year old using his/her action figures (oh now Obi-Wan is riding a dinosaur chasing after General Cartoony on a spin cycle ... alrighty then). That's the best way I can describe it with Lucas having boring "talk scenes" throw in the middle with zero emotion from the actors.
If they continued the cartoony tone of the prequels the franchise would be dead. There's no "see how Darth Vader came to be!" gimmick for this trilogy. They had to choose a style of the OT or PT and they chose wisely in that regard.
Why should they though really? It's supposed to be a connected saga is it not? It makes no sense for the entire tone/style of the universe to shift completely because 20 years has passed.
If they wanna do a SW with a dramatically different tone, that should be an entirely new trilogy set in a very different time line divorced from the current characters.
Like if Nolan for whatever reason decided to do a 4th Batman movie 20 years after TDKR ... it should still feel similar to the other movies, it would make no sense if the style was completely different.
You're right. Its impossible! If only we had seen a franchise were movies have their own unique style and they all still feel connected.
But how? How could you possibly make say 24 movies like that? It's impossible I tell you!
It's harder to pull off, Marvel does actually have a pretty unified tone for the most part, some of the characters are sillier than others but the humor is still the same basic "cool jokes/pop culture references for adults" thing, it's not like Spider-Man has goofy cartoon style for 8-year-olds.
Also this is something Star Wars fans are gonna have to learn the hard way ... just because something works in Marvel doesn't mean it works in Star Wars.
The PT are like Batman & Robin (or being nice, Batman Forever) ... the OT is like Batman Begins/TDK ... the ST is like The Dark Knight Rises, one of those three doesn't fit the other two at all. One is way too cartoony in tone to match up with the others.
I honestly never gave two shits about the trilogies having different tones. Everytime I hear that phrase "it feels like Star Wars" I'm just like... I don't give a fuck. I can go from space shakespeare meme machine ROTS to ANH to KOTOR 2 like nothing.
In fact that's actually what I did when I finally got into SWs. KOTOR got me into it and then I just blasted through all the movies in an order I can't remember. (People should stop making such a big deal about the order too)
Not having decades old nostalgia bog you down does wonders.
I honestly never gave two shits about the trilogies having different tones. Everytime I hear that phrase "it feels like Star Wars" I'm just like... I don't give a fuck. I can go from space shakespeare meme machine ROTS to ANH to KOTOR 2 like nothing.
In fact that's actually what I did when I finally got into SWs. KOTOR got me into it and then I just blasted through all the movies in an order I can't remember. (People should stop making such a big deal about the order too)
Not having decades old nostalgia bog you down does wonders.
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.
The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.
It wouldn't work.
I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.
Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:
My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.
The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai epic combo in the OT.
It wasn't an accident at all. Plenty of documentaries and commentaries show that. The prequels are supposed to look new to show the degradation that took place once the empire rose
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.
The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.
It wouldn't work.
I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.
Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:
My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.
The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai film combo in the OT.
I think Lucas is completely bullshtting when he says things like 'this what I always wanted'. Obviously some choices come out necessity but that's different than the entire western aesthetic being an accidentDialing up the cartoony-ness to a super high level though ... that's a conscious choice.
I think if you look at the CG musical number in ROTJ and Lucas claiming that's what he always wanted, it becomes a tip off he wanted the OT to be a lot more cartoony that it ended up being. In ROTJ you start to see a lot more cartoony feel being forced into certain sections of the film.
He had to settle for a tone more in line with a Western in Space + Kurosawa Samurai film because the special effects simply wouldn't allow him to make a film that goofy.
Imagine the follow up to Thor 2 being a movie full of vibrant shiny colors!
Imagine following up a campy movie like The First Avenger with a serious spy film!
Imagine going from Happy Go Lucky Chamber of Secrets to the grittier Prisoner of Azkaban
Would never work!
You keep going on and on about Nolan, tell you what, a director like Nolan could 100% move his Batman into a more lighthearted angle should he want to.
Audiences now eat that stuff up when you pull it off correctly.
Your argument reeks of bias.
Those aren't tonally that big of a jump (Harry Potter specifically). Thor is the only one that's a big jump but there's always been a large comedic undercurrent to that character ... they turn him into a complete joke in Avengers Endgame.
Star Wars went from a live action space Western to over the top cartoon cheese. If it works for you, great, but it didn't work for a lot of people.
I think Lucas is completely bullshtting when he says things like 'this what I always wanted'. Obviously some choices come out necessity but that's different than the entire western aesthetic being an accident
Oh but what's this? I thought you said they could never work? Despite many examples provided?
Now those do shift in tone but they don't "count".
Go ahead. Enjoy your death star 7 with a revived Palpatine being the Uncle of Larry Skywalker. I guess that's how a franchise remains healthy.
The prequels have about several other disastrous problems down to characters, basic plot, storytelling, etc.
The tonal shift is problematic, imagine Nolan making the next Batman movie that's supposed to directly follow The Dark Knight trilogy but the tone is 50x more cartoony and more like Batman & Robin.
It wouldn't work.
I'm not even sure if the tone of the OT was on purpose or if Lucas fluked out into that "Space Western/used sci-fi" feel that it had because he simply didn't have the budget/technology available to him to dial the cartoony stupidity up to 10.
Return of the Jedi was already starting to show signs of issues here, and he claims he intended to want stuff like this from the get go:
My suspicion is a lot of the the cheese/stupidity/kiddie stuff Lucas wanted or would've dreamt up for the OT simply wasn't doable for budget/tech reasons so he had to make the OT more in line with a Western, "grittier used sci-fi look" (instead of shiny and bright) and a lot of the OT is kind of a fluke.
The style of the OT was an accident, the dumber/goofier/cheesier style of the prequels is what he always wanted but he had to settle for the Space Western meets Kurosawa Samurai film combo in the OT.
It didn't for a lot of people, the fact that those films are still controversial 20 years later even amongst the SW fanbase proves that. The general public doesn't give much of a shit about those films at all.
The main legacy they have are being the butt end of meme jokes on the internet.
Are you really going to use "Not everyone loved them and they were controversial"to defend the trilogy that has both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi on it?
People will keep doing the same shitty about The Last Jedi as they did the prequels for years to come.
Prequel fans cry harder. Your favourite movies suck and no amount of revisionist history from 20 year olds is going to change that fact.
Also, maximum side eye to the types of people insisting Filoni or Feige should be running the show. Their lack of a vagina is totally not relevant, totally.
ALSO, the Clone Wars cartoon is...alright? Basically a lipstick on a pig situation.
Prequel fans cry harder. Your favourite movies suck and no amount of revisionist history from 20 year olds is going to change that fact.
Also, maximum side eye to the types of people huffing and puffing that Filoni or Feige should be running the show. Their lack of a vagina is totally not relevant, totally.
ALSO, the Clone Wars cartoon is...alright? Basically a lipstick on a pig situation.