Star Wars |OT2| This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them! [NO IX SPOILERS]

cj_iwakura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,269
Coral Springs, FL
The prequels sort of had this weird effect of making people expect these films to be Wikipedia articles. The OT didn’t dwell much at all a the political state of the galaxy or the histories of its various characters. Look how little the function of the senate and it being removed was talked about in ANH.

The prequels deep diving the history of every main OT character and explaining the political function of the government is not the norm.

We don’t need the film to stop and explain the relationship of the Resistance and the Republic in detail because everything we need to know is on screen. Republic = peaceful government of the galaxy. Resistance = independent force with backing of the Republic. There you are good to go, and we get that info in the crawl.
I liked how thorough the prequels were about the politics, but the directive for the new trilogy was to nuke political content from orbit because of how it was received in the prequels.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,261
Ann Arbor, MI
I liked how thorough the prequels were about the politics, but the directive for the new trilogy was to nuke political content from orbit because of how it was received in the prequels.
They sort of tried to find a way to keep both sides happy on this one. The amount of politics in the films mirrors the OT, but if you are really into that stuff there are books like Bloodline that go into great detail on the political makeup inner politics of the ST era galaxy.

So if you are into that kind of material from prequels its out there.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,310
The political content of the prequels is extremely thin and often borders on nonsensical. Star Wars is not really about politics -- not in the literal sense of discussing trade blockades and holding emergency legislative sessions -- but to the extent that they are in the prequels is badly written and undermines both the story and the actual filmmaking.

That's the cardinal sin of TFA, almost anything of import is relegated to books.

What the hell is Bosnian Prime? Book. First Order? How? Book. Hux? Book. Phasma? Book.
Most of these things are not of import, and they can be easily understood within the film without ever reading a single Star Wars book. The vast majority of the people who watched TFA (myself included) have not read a single Star Wars book related to this trilogy and did not come out of the theater going, "Well what the heck was Bosnian Prime?!?!"
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,004
Hux is a big factor in the First Order, and characters with less screen time then he is have been fleshed out with less time (that older commander in TLJ's start), and Phasma is a wasted opportunity of a villain.
Screen time has nothing to do with fleshing a character out. Hux is a fascist commander who represents the more militaristic arm of the First Order and is clearly nothing more than a supporting character to Snoke and Kylo. I'm not certain what more nuance you'd even want or need with the character and historically speaking, such characters in the franchise have never been given much depth.

And Phasma is just like Boba Fett; a cool-looking minor villain everyone assumed would have a much more grandiose role in the films but who is, again, just a minor supporting character.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,269
Coral Springs, FL
Screen time has nothing to do with fleshing a character out. Hux is a fascist commander who represents the more militaristic arm of the First Order and is clearly nothing more than a supporting character to Snoke and Kylo. I'm not certain what more nuance you'd even want or need with the character and historically speaking, such characters in the franchise have never been given much depth.

And Phasma is just like Boba Fett; a cool-looking minor villain everyone assumed would have a much more grandiose role in the films but who is, again, just a minor supporting character.
It's just indicative of how much they were shamelessly trying to copy ANH with TFA. ANH was fresh, that was why these minor characters inspired such fervor.

Nowadays it just feels lazy to not flesh out people like Snoke and Hux. Rogue One did it right, and it should be the template for any SW content.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,004
Are we now pretending that the political content in the prequels wasn’t a slog?

Regardless, the need for politics is largely nullified in the sequel trilogy, which is all about a malevolent entity striking out using sheer violence and force.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,004
It's just indicative of how much they were shamelessly trying to copy ANH with TFA. ANH was fresh, that was why these minor characters inspired such fervor.

Nowadays it just feels lazy to not flesh out people like Snoke and Hux. Rogue One did it right, and it should be the template for any SW content.
TFA bears only superficial story beats in common with ANH. When you examine the actual narrative it's very different than ANH even if the familiar is included as an allusion to the older films. (Something Abrams admitted he did on purpose)

And no sequel to a forty-year-old franchise is going to seem as 'fresh' as the original film.

I also can't help but laugh at the claim that TFA is too much like ANH when two years later people squirted their shorts over how divergent TLJ was.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,269
Coral Springs, FL
TFA bears only superficial story beats in common with ANH. When you examine the actual narrative it's very different than ANH even if the familiar is included as an allusion to the older films. (Something Abrams admitted he did on purpose)

And no sequel to a forty-year-old franchise is going to seem as 'fresh' as the original film.

I also can't help but laugh at the claim that TFA is too much like ANH when two years later people squirted their shorts over how divergent TLJ was.
And I liked TLJ, so... you'll probably see correlation between not liking TFA and liking TLJ.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,004
And I liked TLJ, so... you'll probably see correlation between not liking TFA and liking TLJ.
I wasn't referring to you specifically but as a whole SW fandom is a constant and unending paradox.

People didn't like the prequels because they were so different from the originals yet TFA gets flak for being too similar to ANH. Then TLJ comes out and does some very unique things with the franchise we've never seen and a vocal segment of the fandom flips out.

Again, Abrams borrowed some story beats from ANH but when you really examine TFA, it is doing a lot more than copying from previous films. I think the feeling of redundancy is mostly due to the use of the Starkiller base, which just felt like the Death Star 3.0.
 

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,444
TFA itself handled StarKiller Base as a throwaway plot device....

The real exciting stuff was on the surface with kylo vs rey
 
Jun 12, 2019
39
TFA itself handled StarKiller Base as a throwaway plot device....

The real exciting stuff was on the surface with kylo vs rey
true even JJ said, in roundabout way, that nobody cared about SKB attack:

“And we’re back in the forest with the story we really care about, the focus of the story which is Rey and Ren.” - JJ Abrams, TFA Blue Ray Commentary
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,310
Are we now pretending that the political content in the prequels wasn’t a slog?
Not just a slog; the political content of the prequels was badly written tripe.

When people say they like the politics of the prequels, I have to assume they mean they liked the potential of it, because the actual execution and implementation of politics as part of the movies' plotting is bad.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,625
People who think the prequels have "deep politics" are presumably denizens from /r/Im13AndThisIsDeep.

"Palpatine was a good and kind ruler, but secretly he was evil...just like real politicians...they want you to trust them but actually...they're evil...whoa. And then the Senate just gives him power. It's just like Hitler. Whoa. Wild."

Of course now real life politics are such a farce that they retroactively make the prequels look more prescient than they were.
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,337
The Research Triangle
People who think the prequels have "deep politics" are presumably denizens from /r/Im13AndThisIsDeep.

"Palpatine was a good and kind ruler, but secretly he was evil...just like real politicians...they want you to trust them but actually...they're evil...whoa. And then the Senate just gives him power. It's just like Hitler. Whoa. Wild."

Of course now real life politics are such a farce that they retroactively make the prequels look more prescient than they were.
Hosnian Prime. Bosnian Prime is in Europe.
I can’t decide which of these three posts I love most so you’re all getting quoted without context.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,658
I know it’ll never happen but the guy who plays Billy in Stranger Things would be perfect for Cade Skywalker in a Legacy adaptation.
 

Pitchfork

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,919
England
Alphabet squadron is probably my favourite new canon novel released so far! Really cant wait for the next novel to release and will download the full Tie (in) Fighter mini series once they're all available to get some of that Shadow Wing backstory

Excellent stuff!
 

JB1981

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,710
I disagree, though admittedly they are, narratively speaking, serving very different aims.

I like the SKB run but it feels more perfunctory than in RoTJ and clearly, the more interesting stuff in TFA is happening on the ground between Kylo, Han and Rey.
So you agree with me that the SK Base attack was perfunctory but don’t agree with my point? Why? It is absolutely perfunctory and without tension. SK Base almost ruined the movie for me. In fact, with first viewing it actually did. I was so disappointed by the lack of imagination
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,004
So you agree with me that the SK Base attack was perfunctory but don’t agree with my point? Why? It is absolutely perfunctory and without tension. SK Base almost ruined the movie for me. In fact, with first viewing it actually did. I was so disappointed by the lack of imagination
Just because something is perfunctory (and let's face it, it was also perfunctory and redundant in RoTJ) doesn't mean it isn't well executed. I don't agree the SKB is devoid of all tension and excitement but I can feel that way and still agree it was probably the least inspired aspect of the film.
 

SELIG

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
sith troopers whhaaat.

Still got that feeling that these red sith troopers are a new clone army that the knights of ren were training and that is why they were not around in TFA and that is why Kylo name dropped a clone army to Hux in TFA
 

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,661
France
I recently discovered Charly Bliss (I've listened to Young Enough and Love Me, like, a billion times) and now I find out that the singer's favorite Star Wars movie is The Last Jedi!? Oh my god.
The whole Soft Serve Trilogy is amazing (third one is very underrated)
 

SELIG

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
this is quite confounding with how much JJ was empahsizing during TFA promotion that Snoke and Kylo are NOT Sith. this is cool, and i'm excited to see how it plays out.
 

Cross-Section

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,084
Man, Manabyte's thread in OT is going as expected

My personal hot take: This is probably what the FO troopers should have looked like in the first place.
 
OP
OP
WadiumArcadium

WadiumArcadium

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,798
UK
They're actually called Sith Troopers? Haha. Have to say I'm not a fan of the name but the design's alright.

I remember Making Star Wars mentioning they'd heard 'Sith Trooper' but I presumed it was just an informal name used on set.