Star Wars |OT2| This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them! [NO IX SPOILERS]

Oct 28, 2017
7,275
How so? Unlike the OT Lucas actually directed the prequels and everything about them, with less studio interference than ever. He also pioneered digital filmmaking.
Lucas’ influence on contemporary film is practically second to none but the filmmaker he was back when he was hanging with Coppola and Scorsese making films like American Graffiti and THX is markedly different than the filmmaker who directed the prequels.

Being a true auteur is more than just exercising absolute control over production and filming; it’s about creating something of genuine artistic vision regardless of public response or commercial sensibilities and while I think Lucas has retained some of his previous auteur-ism, I don’t think anything in the prequels was as bold or challenging as what Rian did with TLJ and I think that’s because Lucas isn’t nearly as passionate about the SW universe and instead is more pragmatic in terms of what he sees it as. (Revenue)
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,275
The fandom has always been fragmented so no amount on quality will change that.

When TFA released it was "Too much of the same"

When TLJ released it was "Too divergent and subversive"

You'll never please everyone which is why they should just keep making great films and let the chips fall where they may.

TLJ is among the best-reviewed SW films ever and it grossed 1.3 billion. Who cares if people don't like it?
 

PopQuiz

Member
Dec 11, 2017
981
I'm seriously hoping that the scene from the trailer was a dream sequence (it seemed to "clean" to me) and we see her build her own lightsaber using the crystal. AFAIR, we haven't had a lightsaber building scene in the movies. The one from ROTJ was cut.

I still dream of Rey with a double sided saber, but don't think we'll get it. Kylo gets a cool saber, why not Rey?!
i hadn't considered that moment as a dream. that's fun. all the other promo stuff still seems to indicate it's the old saber, but that's fun.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,260
I'm seriously hoping that the scene from the trailer was a dream sequence (it seemed to "clean" to me) and we see her build her own lightsaber using the crystal. AFAIR, we haven't had a lightsaber building scene in the movies. The one from ROTJ was cut.

I still dream of Rey with a double sided saber, but don't think we'll get it. Kylo gets a cool saber, why not Rey?!
The Skywalker lightsaber we've seen is bound together under a leather covering, so it's definitely not just in a dream.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,277
I guess "fix" is maybe a bad way to phrase it but idk make the tenor of conversation more positive? I guess the pre-TLJ status quo
Was it though? People forget how much shit TFA got for rehashing the OT, and that’s where the diversity and may sue shit stared too. And before that, the prequel hate was so prevalent it was just normal.

The fan base isn’t really broke. It’s toxic by nature. Most are, that’s the internet, and TROS isn’t gonna change the internet.
 

PopQuiz

Member
Dec 11, 2017
981
Was it though? People forget how much shit TFA got for rehashing the OT, and that’s where the diversity and may sue shit stared too. And before that, the prequel hate was so prevalent it was just normal.

The fan base isn’t really broke. It’s toxic by nature. Most are, that’s the internet, and TROS isn’t gonna change the internet.
said it before, but this is right. it's always been toxic. Plinkett, South Park's "George Lucas raped my childhood", etc. there has never really been a "fixed" moment in the fandom after 1999.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,866
said it before, but this is right. it's always been toxic. Plinkett, South Park's "George Lucas raped my childhood", etc. there has never really been a "fixed" moment in the fandom after 1999.
“George Lucas raped my childhood” has, I think, never quite gotten its due as such a singularly awful thing to say. Not to mention, beyond pathetic.
 

PopQuiz

Member
Dec 11, 2017
981
Exactly. I think it was a really important moment in nerdom in the 00's and its throughline toward TLJ and modern toxic dude culture is there. Just like South Park is for young male political cynicism. And I say this as someone who watched a decent amount of South Park.
 

Oozer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,085
The only JJ issue I have so far is his decision to bring Luke’s lightsaber back. Let Rey have her own.
During the Episode IX panel, Daisy Ridley said that the Graflex lightsaber returning was not "the end of the story."


(If that video doesn't go right to this question and answer, it's at 1 hour, 2 minutes)

Bwhahahahhahaha

They don’t even try with their trolling

 

PopQuiz

Member
Dec 11, 2017
981
Speaking of crazy reddit fans, I was looking for some old sw info and found a reddit post that said JJ “clawed himself up through the industry through his tv company” and Rian had his parents “buy his way into the film industry through his dad’s construction business”.

It blew my mind the narrative people build up. Like JJ’s dad was a famous television producer and Rian’s parents were literal nobodies and he maxed out credit cards to make a $450k indie.

The internet is a dumb, dumb place.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,866
Speaking of crazy reddit fans, I was looking for some old sw info and found a reddit post that said JJ “clawed himself up through the industry through his tv company” and Rian had his parents “buy his way into the film industry through his dad’s construction business”.

It blew my mind the narrative people build up. Like JJ’s dad was a famous television producer and Rian’s parents were literal nobodies and he maxed out credit cards to make a $450k indie.

The internet is a dumb, dumb place.
I like that the boot straps narrative built for JJ in this instance is still, "owned his own tv company."
 

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,867
I wish they would have kept the line “you would betray us for a pair of pretty eyes” line that Luke said to Rey during their fight on ach to.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,275
TFA should have gotten shit for being a rehash though.
For every familiar beat in TFA there’s two story beats that go in a different direction. People tend to be incredibly reductive in their criticisms when it suits them but as a whole I think TFA did plenty new to warrant the praise.

I also find the redundancy criticisms ironic given how angry people were that the prequels weren’t more like the originals.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,782
Ann Arbor, MI
No matter what things aren't as toxic now as they were during the prequels. It is hard to remember now because millenial nostalgia of prequels sort of took over the internet and prequel memes have become this beloved internet fandom.

We had actual jokes during late night shows and SNL mocking the prequels, the wooden acting, Jar Jar, etc. You'd see jabs at them on Conan or SNL and so on. Or shows liked Spaced. We had documentaries about how George Lucas ruined childhoods.

The toxic anger we deal with now is mostly contained to social media and Reddit. It hasn't broke through to wider pop culture like the prequel anger during 99-05.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,275
I actually predicted that some of the fandom would pivot back to claiming Lucas as the messiah once the new films came out, regardless of their critical laudation. (Which has been copious)

I love the prequels despite their flaws but they could have (and should have) been so much better and anyone claiming something like AoTC is better than TLJ knows nothing of filmmaking.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,866
I actually predicted that some of the fandom would pivot back to claiming Lucas as the messiah once the new films came out, regardless of their critical laudation. (Which has been copious)

I love the prequels despite their flaws but they could have (and should have) been so much better and anyone claiming something like AoTC is better than TLJ knows nothing of filmmaking.
The last thing is always better than the current thing. In 10 years people will be singing TLJ's praises while crying bloody murder for whatever new Star Wars is out.

Character dynamics are pretty different, for one thing.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,275
I think turning the remainder of the Empire into the equivalent of renegade Nazi's secretly forging a new underground order was a brilliant flip.

Kylo fighting against the light instead of the dark and his whole dynamic and desire to worship his grandfather.

The saber being a true talisman that actually carries with it the residue of the Skywalkers.

Seeing the regression of Han Solo back into a hustler and then reemerging not only as a father but somebody who makes the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good.

Using a defector Stormtrooper as a narrative lynch pin.

The idea of Luke's exploits becoming a myth in the wake of his absence.

That's just off the top of my head but I think the film explores all sorts of interesting new ideas and I think the familiar beats were intentional. (Abrams has said as much)
 

Meowster

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,918
Missouri
Certain people will never be happy with Star Wars. Some people only love the first two movies and the last third of Return of the Jedi and you're always going to hear them whining about how Star Wars has been ruined. They sent George Lucas death threats and talked about how he "raped" their childhood, doing the same to Kennedy and team, and would do it do anyone who got their hands on the franchise (both Lucas and Feige would instantly be shat upon regardless of what fans say on the internet about how "they would save Star Wars"). They harass actors (Jake Lloyd, Ahmed Best, Hayden Christensen, Daisy Ridley, and Kelly Marie Tran). The toxicity is real.

Thankfully most of it nowadays is, as Cheebo says, contained to forums and social media.
 

KDash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,091
Florida
I didn't know that people hated the prequels (or parts of Return of the Jedi) until a few years ago. Heh.

Probably wouldn't know that people hated The Last Jedi if it wasn't mentioned so much in this thread. Everyone I know likes it.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,072
I actually think about 1/3 of TFA is pretty great. It’s the last act where I just completely check out. I was so disappointed to see the endings for ANH and Jedi remixed for this movie. ANOTHER Death Star sneaking mission? ANOTHER Death Star trench run? Come on!
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,614
Austin, TX
that trench run was just like what, a couple minutes of the film? Lol. in ANH, it was the main plan of attack, in TFA, it felt more like a homage. It wasn't the whole attack they realized there was an opening in the oscillator and then flew toward it to blow it up.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,614
Austin, TX
TFA is a bloody brilliant film and didn't feel like a remake to me. It did have some similar beats but I felt like the vibes were appropriate for the film, letting know the general public that it's gonna be okay and that star wars was back. note that these vibes weren't felt since ROTJ in 83, the prequels felt like different kind of SW pictures. and like Tetra said above, there were enough differences in the film, most notably for me, having a stormtrooper POV and having a legit 3 dimensional villain like Kylo. The film works completely, and I feel like the only detractors are these dudes on the side saying that it's a remake, when just given the littlest amount of thought, know that it's not true.
 

Meowster

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,918
Missouri
The only truly derivative and bad part was Starkiller Base, essentially erasing all of the important planets in one minute, bringing everything back to the status quo that we've known for so long.

I feel like a lot of major issues people have with the sequel movies, especially from a lore and franchise perspective, comes from that.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,072
that trench run was just like what, a couple minutes of the film? Lol. in ANH, it was the main plan of attack, in TFA, it felt more like a homage. It wasn't the whole attack they realized there was an opening in the oscillator and then flew toward it to blow it up.
When Poe flew down the trench and the stormtroopers fired the same Death Star trench guns seen in ANH I basically just said fuck this movie
 

RyanW

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,920
TFA is a bloody brilliant film and didn't feel like a remake to me. It did have some similar beats but I felt like the vibes were appropriate for the film, letting know the general public that it's gonna be okay and that star wars was back. note that these vibes weren't felt since ROTJ in 83, the prequels felt like different kind of SW pictures. and like Tetra said above, there were enough differences in the film, most notably for me, having a stormtrooper POV and having a legit 3 dimensional villain like Kylo. The film works completely, and I feel like the only detractors are these dudes on the side saying that it's a remake, when just given the littlest amount of thought, know that it's not true.
I didn’t even notice the similarities until a thread on GAF was made and I had already seen the film twice. Then I was like “Oh yeah, I see it now.” But it doesn’t ruin it for me because I think there’s enough difference and enough changes in the “remake” bits to still be original.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,614
Austin, TX
The only truly derivative and bad part was Starkiller Base, essentially erasing all of the important planets in one minute, bringing everything back to the status quo that we've known for so long.

I feel like a lot of major issues people have with the sequel movies, especially from a lore and franchise perspective, comes from that.
yeah i felt like this was an issue i had when i got out from seeing it in theaters. I was like, wait was that the republic? Lol. I'm guessing they didn't want to bog down on the politics or there was some scenes cut and felt the movie would be paced better.
When Poe flew down the trench and the stormtroopers fired the same Death Star trench guns seen in ANH I basically just said fuck this movie
cool
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,866
The Starkiller dogfighting is pretty superfluous but isn't the meat of the climax anyway. The film is all about Rey, Finn, and Han on the run from Kylo Ren, and the climax is all about these four finally colliding together, not about X-Wings vs. Tie fighters.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,072
yeah i felt like this was an issue i had when i got out from seeing it in theaters. I was like, wait was that the republic? Lol. I'm guessing they didn't want to bog down on the politics or there was some scenes cut and felt the movie would be paced better.

cool
It was just a bridge too far at that point. I had enough of the nostalgia pandering
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,072
The Starkiller dogfighting is pretty superfluous but isn't the meat of the climax anyway. The film is all about Rey, Finn, and Han on the run from Kylo Ren, and the climax is all about these four finally colliding together, not about X-Wings vs. Tie fighters.
Blowing up the big gun that’s seconds away from wiping out the resistance isn’t part of the drama/tension? I wasn’t enamored with the character conflict either. When I feel more for K2SO dying than Han friggin Solo there’s a problem with your movie
 
OP
OP
WadiumArcadium

WadiumArcadium

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,853
UK
I didn’t even notice the similarities until a thread on GAF was made and I had already seen the film twice. Then I was like “Oh yeah, I see it now.” But it doesn’t ruin it for me because I think there’s enough difference and enough changes in the “remake” bits to still be original.
This is how I've always felt. I never find myself thinking of ANH when I'm watching it.

Including another superweapon was my least favourite aspect of the film but I was really invested in what was happening on the ground.
 

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,867

(Lmao @ the caption)

Retweeted by MSW

Dumb speculation: Rian Johnsons trilogy will not be named “Star Wars” thats why it wasn’t on the announced slate.

LF is open to producing movies outside indy and SW.

 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,866
Blowing up the big gun that’s seconds away from wiping out the resistance isn’t part of the drama/tension?
No. Partly because you know the resistance isn't about to be wiped out, but mostly because the film isn't about Starkiller Base in the same way that ANH is about the Death Star. The Death Star is what drives the action in ANH; the plans, and rescuing Leia who sent the plans, is what spurs Luke, Obi-Wan, and Han into action. But Starkiller isn't the reason Finn escapes to Jakku, isn't the reason he and Rey team up and leave, isn't the reason why they meet Han, and isn't the reason why they go to stage a rescue for Rey. It's tangential to the characters.

I wasn’t enamored with the character conflict either. When I feel more for K2SO dying than Han friggin Solo there’s a problem with your movie
ok, but that's a separate issue then, lol. Nothing to do with being derivative or not.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,201
By the way, recently I discovered that there's some people who get really mad about Reylo.

Like, this mad:



STAR WARS NOT EVEN ONCE