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Star Wars |OT2| This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them! [NO IX SPOILERS]

Oct 25, 2017
884
Some complete speculation about the reveals planned for Star Wars for the next couple months, based on the plans for previous projects and my own gut (which could be way off):

End of May/Beginning of June: Vanity Fair cover story about The Rise of Skywalker.

June 8th: World gameplay premiere for Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order at EA Play, their E3 event.

July 18th-21st: A Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker behind-the-scenes sizzle reel at San Diego Comic Con. Possibly more about The Mandalorian and Clone Wars and maybe some toy reveals for Triple Force Friday.

August 23rd-25th: If there was no Episode IX behind-the-scenes reel at Comic-Con, then it will be shown at Disney's D23 Expo. Otherwise nothing new for The Rise of Skywalker (they might throw a couple of stills to someone like Entertainment Weekly, but nothing major). But maybe the first publically released trailer for The Mandalorian. And possibly the first real hints at the movies from David Benioff/D.B. Weiss and Rian Johnson, including the chance Lucasfilm says who is doing the ones recently announced. We could also get a title for the Cassian Andor series and maybe an announcement of a third series or the release date of Clone Wars. Also, more toy reveals.

October 14th or 21st: The full, theatrical trailer for The Rise of Skywalker debuts at halftime of a Monday Night Football Game. Tickets for the film go on sale immediately after.
 
Dec 11, 2017
832
The idea that Spielberg still hasn’t gotten a Star Wars movie baffles me. I guess he still considers it George’s baby, but there’s honestly no more perfect direct who understands it’s swashbuckling, emotional adventure nature as well as he does. With the right script, a Spielberg Star Wars would be a blast.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,050
France
Not Star Wars but the latest Patreon exclusive pod for Making Star Wars Jason Ward says he hears Lucasfilm Animation is working on a Indiana Jones animated show for Disney+
That would be awesome. Maybe they can finally complete The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles:
Lucas wrote an extensive time-line detailing the life of Indiana Jones, assembling the elements for about 70 episodes, starting in 1905 and leading all the way up to the feature films. Each outline included the place, date and the historical persons Indy would meet in that episode, and would then be turned over to one of the series writers. When the series came to an end about 31 of the 70 stories had been filmed. Had the series been renewed for a third season, Young Indy would have been introduced to younger versions of characters from Raiders of the Lost Ark: Abner Ravenwood ("Jerusalem, June 1909") and René Belloq ("Honduras, December 1920").
 
Dec 11, 2017
832
Is GoT the next TLJ? Well, at least from levels of obnoxiousness in online complaining. Maybe it deserves it more, but still...
TLJ's outrage came from a confluence of contextless nostalgia and a vocal misogynist minority launching major attacks from the get go. I don't watch Game of Thrones, but from what i gather through twitter and cultural osmosis, they seem a little different. I'd say the "fan entitlement" is more akin to what we see in video game meltdowns than Star Wars. But again, I don't watch GoT and don't have any context for what the real issues of the show/characterization are.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,820
TLJ's outrage came from a confluence of contextless nostalgia and a vocal misogynist minority launching major attacks from the get go. I don't watch Game of Thrones, but from what i gather through twitter and cultural osmosis, they seem a little different. I'd say the "fan entitlement" is more akin to what we see in video game meltdowns than Star Wars. But again, I don't watch GoT and don't have any context for what the real issues of the show/characterization are.
It's basically like if at the end of TLJ when Luke shows up to save everybody on Crait, he suddenly decides to murder all the Resistance members inside the base, including children, because he's secretly turned to the dark side. After the movie ends, people defend the twist by saying "Well, remember when Luke thought about striking Palpatine in ROTJ? Remember when he considered killing Ben? Remember that his father was evil too? They've been foreshadowing this for years!" while everyone else sits there shellshocked at what just happened. Also, Finn randomly decides to rejoin the First Order because he can't change who he is on the inside, Kylo is killed by some falling debris, and Rey just spends the whole battle kind of running around doing nothing before riding off on a horse.

What's sad is I'd bet some TLJ haters would actually find this ending more palatable than what they got. "Evil Luke" theories were all the rage for years.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Austin, TX
I don't know where else to write this but honestly i'm getting fatigued about all this uncertainity on what's next for SW. I really wish KK and lucasfilm would just cement on what's going on with the films going forward. Say once and for all who's involved and what's going on. Not to mention, hopefully they're already on this, but to add more projects down the line and hell, this is wishful thinking, get something in the meantime going and not have to wait till 2022 for anything substantial to come out in the film space. I know that last point is an impossibilty but the internet has really been draining me lately. yeah, it's probably a mix of GoT and all the negatvity surrounding that but also what's going on with SW as well. A double whammy

Might just check out of the internet for awhile, getting exhausted just reading anything lately.
 
Dec 11, 2017
832
It's basically like if at the end of TLJ when Luke shows up to save everybody on Crait, he suddenly decides to murder all the Resistance members inside the base, including children, because he's secretly turned to the dark side. After the movie ends, people defend the twist by saying "Well, remember when Luke thought about striking Palpatine in ROTJ? Remember when he considered killing Ben? Remember that his father was evil too? They've been foreshadowing this for years!" while everyone else sits there shellshocked at what just happened. Also, Finn randomly decides to rejoin the First Order because he can't change who he is on the inside, Kylo is killed by some falling debris, and Rey just spends the whole battle kind of running around doing nothing before riding off on a horse.

What's sad is I'd bet some TLJ haters would actually find this ending more palatable than what they got. "Evil Luke" theories were all the rage for years.
thanks for the analogy. like i said, this is way out of my wheelhouse
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,981
USA
It's basically like if at the end of TLJ when Luke shows up to save everybody on Crait, he suddenly decides to murder all the Resistance members inside the base, including children, because he's secretly turned to the dark side. After the movie ends, people defend the twist by saying "Well, remember when Luke thought about striking Palpatine in ROTJ? Remember when he considered killing Ben? Remember that his father was evil too? They've been foreshadowing this for years!" while everyone else sits there shellshocked at what just happened. Also, Finn randomly decides to rejoin the First Order because he can't change who he is on the inside, Kylo is killed by some falling debris, and Rey just spends the whole battle kind of running around doing nothing before riding off on a horse.

What's sad is I'd bet some TLJ haters would actually find this ending more palatable than what they got. "Evil Luke" theories were all the rage for years.
This comparison is comically misguided.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,012
It's basically like if at the end of TLJ when Luke shows up to save everybody on Crait, he suddenly decides to murder all the Resistance members inside the base, including children, because he's secretly turned to the dark side. After the movie ends, people defend the twist by saying "Well, remember when Luke thought about striking Palpatine in ROTJ? Remember when he considered killing Ben? Remember that his father was evil too? They've been foreshadowing this for years!" while everyone else sits there shellshocked at what just happened. Also, Finn randomly decides to rejoin the First Order because he can't change who he is on the inside, Kylo is killed by some falling debris, and Rey just spends the whole battle kind of running around doing nothing before riding off on a horse.

What's sad is I'd bet some TLJ haters would actually find this ending more palatable than what they got. "Evil Luke" theories were all the rage for years.
Ironically, Anakin is a far better comparison, having actually had serious emotional problems, killed and executed people in cold blood, and was driven by the idea that powerful people should “protect” the weak through exerting their power. And we know where that lead him...

Edit: It’s actually even more perfect because Anakins turn also feels rushed.

I imagine people who don’t know he’s Vader have similar reactions when he starts murdering kids.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
22,536
I don't watch GOT. Is the consensus that D&D are crap now? Should we be worried?

As far as we know, they are not directing their movies, so that's a plus.
People have been shitting on them all the way back to season 1, like, a lot. This past two seasons were rushed some because D&D, after working on nothing but GoT for ten years, wanted to move on and HBO had to push them to try and get as many episodes as possible, which is why we now have season 7 with 7 episodes and season 8 with 6, instead of the normal 10.

Because these two seasons have had some issues, they've gotten the hate they've always wanted but way harder.

Should you be worried? I'm not really sure. It's possible that them rushing the story is the reason some of the writing has suffered or maybe they've just lost the touch. D&D, right now, aren't a sure thing, though. With RJ I know I'm gonna get something great, with D&D I'm either gonna get something great or something okay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,981
USA
People have been shitting on them all the way back to season 1, like, a lot. This past two seasons were rushed some because D&D, after working on nothing but GoT for ten years, wanted to move on and HBO had to push them to try and get as many episodes as possible, which is why we now have season 7 with 7 episodes and season 8 with 6, instead of the normal 10.

Because these two seasons have had some issues, they've gotten the hate they've always wanted but way harder.

Should you be worried? I'm not really sure. It's possible that them rushing the story is the reason some of the writing has suffered or maybe they've just lost the touch. D&D, right now, aren't a sure thing, though. With RJ I know I'm gonna get something great, with D&D I'm either gonna get something great or something okay.
Despite some pretty huge problems with D&D, there's far more reason to believe whatever is created for SW is going to be a a product of high quality. The hate for them has been absurdly overblown, but they need to actually hire some women and PoC to write and direct if they want stronger representation and they do need to answer for many of those completely valid criticisms.
 
Oct 27, 2017
661
I get the feeling we're not going to find out more about the D&D movies until Celebration next year. Same goes for Rian's films.

I'm going to be so pissed off if there is any truth to those rumours about Rian's trilogy. After ROS, they're the ones I'm looking forward to.

I just wish we would get news sooner.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,504
The idea that Spielberg still hasn’t gotten a Star Wars movie baffles me. I guess he still considers it George’s baby, but there’s honestly no more perfect direct who understands it’s swashbuckling, emotional adventure nature as well as he does. With the right script, a Spielberg Star Wars would be a blast.
I think there were union reasons Spielberg couldn't direct an OT film and he said he didn't want to do one now because Lucas wasn't involved anymore.

Is GoT the next TLJ? Well, at least from levels of obnoxiousness in online complaining. Maybe it deserves it more, but still...
it's particularly bad now but it's kind of always been this way. GoT threads on Era and GAF have been toxic for literally years; it's mostly people hatewatching the show and shitting on every little thing. It's just insufferable to be a part of, especially if, god forbid, you actually like the show!

People have been shitting on them all the way back to season 1, like, a lot. This past two seasons were rushed some because D&D, after working on nothing but GoT for ten years, wanted to move on and HBO had to push them to try and get as many episodes as possible, which is why we now have season 7 with 7 episodes and season 8 with 6, instead of the normal 10.
The episode orders weren't reduced because they were trying to wrap up the show faster. Cutting down the number of episodes didn't save any time on production; they ended up spending twice as long putting out S8 than they had with prior years.
 
OP
OP
WadiumArcadium
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
UK
I don't watch GOT. Is the consensus that D&D are crap now? Should we be worried?

As far as we know, they are not directing their movies, so that's a plus.
They did an excellent job adapting the books in the first four or so seasons. The quality has steadily declined since then as they've had a lack of source material to rely on and the story has felt quite clumsily handled this season.

I'll be approaching their work on Star Wars with an open mind and wishing them the best but I do have my concerns. I have a lot more faith in Rian.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,504
Despite some pretty huge problems with D&D, there's far more reason to believe whatever is created for SW is going to be a a product of high quality. The hate for them has been absurdly overblown, but they need to actually hire some women and PoC to write and direct if they want stronger representation and they do need to answer for many of those completely valid criticisms.
I imagine/hope a major reason why D&D were announced as just writers and producers on their series of movies is to leave the door open for female and PoC directors to helm them (and I imagine do some kind of rewrite of their own).
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,981
USA
I imagine/hope a major reason why D&D were announced as just writers and producers on their series of movies is to leave the door open for female and PoC directors to helm them (and I imagine do some kind of rewrite of their own).
Kathleen Kennedy better have an army of women/PoC ready to go.

No more bullshit excuses.
 
Dec 11, 2017
832
We talking about female directors? Lot's of great female genre directors out there. Obvious great ones like Ava and Patty Jenkins. Some other cool ones I'd like to see if they were interested - Michelle McLaren, Karyn Kusama, Lynne Ramsay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,182
Ann Arbor, MI
I am not worried about D&D. I trust Kathy. She won't green light a script she isn't happy with. She isn't afraid to get her hands dirty.

Whatever film we get in 2022 I am optimistic in, because I trust Kathy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,289
If Ava can improve from A Wrinkle in Time I'm ok with that, because that movie is far worse than any of the Star Wars prequels, I would seriously take Attack of the Clones over it.

I just hope she brings her A game for a new Star Wars movie since she does mostly good movies as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,791
I don't watch GOT. Is the consensus that D&D are crap now? Should we be worried?

As far as we know, they are not directing their movies, so that's a plus.
Personally aside from feeling a little rushed I've quite liked this season. I doubt they'd have the same issue with SW anyway because going into it they know they will be making exactly three movies so they'll be able to map it all out ahead of time.
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,644
The Research Triangle
Personally aside from feeling a little rushed I've quite liked this season. I doubt they'd have the same issue with SW anyway because going into it they know they will be making exactly three movies so they'll be able to map it all out ahead of time.
Right, same here. The #1 thing I wish the season had was one, maybe two extra episodes. The final four episodes have all been 90 minutes -- nearly double the average length! -- but they've still rushed some things, no denying it. Otherwise I'm still good with the show (overall).

I'm concerned about Benioff and Weiss' ability to worldbuild. I don't really know their skills with that because I'm not sure they've ever really... done anything besides adaptations? Not that I know of, at least. But they've got a talented team surrounding them at Lucasfilm. So I think it'll be alright.
 
Oct 25, 2017
884
Oct 25, 2017
884
Here's hoping the end of the trilogy brings some sort of expanded music release, given that there's like an hour of music recorded for TFA that never saw the light of day due to JJ's constant (though warranted) tinkering with the edit.
Co-sign very hard. On a related note, I'd love for a big blow-out on The Force Awakens. There were a ton of little bits left on the cutting room floor that we still haven't seen (though we'll get some in Episode IX), and J.J. has said that portions that were already filmed were rewritten and then reshot after Harrison Ford got hurt. I want to see the before stuff. Also, I'm hoping more details are released about the outline George handed over to Disney in 2012. Basically, I want a lot of things. I'm selfish.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,206
Has this been posted? I would hope so since Jenny is the best.

As hilarious as this video is, every single point she makes about why Kylo will get his redemption arc in IX is 100% valid and correct.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
Co-sign very hard. On a related note, I'd love for a big blow-out on The Force Awakens. There were a ton of little bits left on the cutting room floor that we still haven't seen (though we'll get some in Episode IX), and J.J. has said that portions that were already filmed were rewritten and then reshot after Harrison Ford got hurt. I want to see the before stuff. Also, I'm hoping more details are released about the outline George handed over to Disney in 2012. Basically, I want a lot of things. I'm selfish.
This reminds me that I eventually need to track down JJ's TFA commentary track, because it sounds surprisingly revealing in what got cut and changed:

Collider listicle said:
- When they first started shooting, they were still figuring out the Finn/Rey dynamic. Their first confrontation on Jakku was originally more contentious, but in reshoots this was altered to infuse more “joy” into the scenes. As shot, there was more anger between the two, Finn reveals he’s a stormtrooper, and Rey has never heard of Luke Skywalker. This was all changed.

- During the break in filming during Harrison Ford’s injury, Abrams reworked the Rey and Finn dynamic, rewriting the scene where they come together after flying the Millennium Falcon and have a joyous moment together.

- Also during the break in filming from Ford’s injury, Abrams wrote the scene in which Finn and Rey have to fix the Millennium Falcon, for which he wanted something of a screwball comedy vibe.
http://collider.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-trivia/

Honestly makes me somewhat worried about TROS if a lot of the stuff that folks found most appealing about TFA only happened due to a freak accident.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
884
Phil Szostak, a Lucasfilm Creative Manager, and writer of the "Art of" books, recently tweeted about a good video from last year detailing the filmmaking of the Star Wars saga from Patrick (H) Willems.


It's a good look at how the various directors have created the looks of the films. I learned a lot, not just about the Star Wars films, but about filmmaking in general. He does a great job clearly articulating what the differences are and why they matter. It's a very good video. It does overlook the prequels a tad. He doesn't mention the crash zoom nor the lightsabers illuminating characters in Attack of the Clones but credits The Force Awakens for both. In his defense, in the comments, he does say he remembered the light-throwing lightsabers in Episode II right after uploading the video and they were only in a couple of shots. He doesn't talk about the crazy shot of the Millennium Falcon that capped off the initial The Force Awakens teaser and drove me batty (but the video did give me a good explanation for why I hated it less when I saw the movie). That's when I realized that George did not move the camera a lot in his Star Wars movies.

This reminds me that I eventually need to track down JJ's TFA commentary track, because it sounds surprisingly revealing in what got cut and changed:



http://collider.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-trivia/

Honestly makes me somewhat worried about TROS if a lot of the stuff that folks found most appealing about TFA only happened due to a freak accident.
My poor attempt at assuaging your fears:

* J.J. and his collaborator have had more time to write the script for The Rise of Skywalker. The shooting script for The Force Awakens was written in about 6 months or so. Michael Arndt left in late October and principal photography began in May. In contrast, J.J. was announced as the writer/director of Episode IX in early September 2017 and principal photography started the beginning of August 2018.
* Episode IX is not a fresh beginning. There are existing characters and conflicts that can be tapped into.
* Chris Terrio is a much better match as a co-writer for J.J. then Lawrence Kasdan. Abrams and Kasdan basically share the same weaknesses. They both care more about character interplay in the moment than clarity and emotional continuity.
* J.J. Abrams now has a Star Wars film under his belt so he'll feel more comfortable creating in the universe.

Thus ends this installment of "Oozer Attempts to Talk Star Wars Fans Down From The Ledge."

And FYI, just in case you're not aware, the commentary is only included with the 2D disc that's part of the 3D version of The Force Awakens but I might have the commentary track on one of my computers if you're interested.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,981
USA
Has this been posted? I would hope so since Jenny is the best.

As hilarious as this video is, every single point she makes about why Kylo will get his redemption arc in IX is 100% valid and correct.
"Kylo Ren will be redeemed because he's pretty" is one of the dumbest talking points I've ever heard.

He ain't getting fully redeemed, to do so would undue all of his character development from EP7 and 8. Luke's "no one's ever really gone" is not "everybody is going to be redeemed" it's "everybody has darkness and light inside of them". Kylo could do right by Rey in some way but coming back and being Anakin 2.0 ain't happening.

She's also failing to follow some basic plot points. She says Kylo doesn't have many notable kills. He killed his dad, Han Solo. He killed everybody at the Jedi academy. He killed Snoke. She says it's possible that Snoke actually killed all of these students.. lol no. This is some stretch arm strong shit to make a point.

He killed Han, tried to murder Luke by death of a billion laser bolts, murdered Luke's students, stood by while Starkiller blasted an entire system into the next trilogy. She even says he's not as bad as Vader, which is just thematically and narratively not even close to being true. In SW, the greatest sin is murdering or betraying your family, which Kylo does time and time again.

I mean, yeah, JJ could fully redeem him, but there is no narrative way to accomplish this without undoing the brilliance of all his development up until this point.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,614
My poor attempt at assuaging your fears:

* J.J. and his collaborator have had more time to write the script for The Rise of Skywalker. The shooting script for The Force Awakens was written in about 6 months or so. Michael Arndt left in late October and principal photography began in May. In contrast, J.J. was announced as the writer/director of Episode IX in early September 2017 and principal photography started the beginning of August 2018.
* Episode IX is not a fresh beginning. There are existing characters and conflicts that can be tapped into.
* Chris Terrio is a much better match as a co-writer for J.J. then Lawrence Kasdan. Abrams and Kasdan basically share the same weaknesses. They both care more about character interplay in the moment than clarity and emotional continuity.
* J.J. Abrams now has a Star Wars film under his belt so he'll feel more comfortable creating in the universe.

Thus ends this installment of "Oozer Attempts to Talk Star Wars Fans Down From The Ledge."

And FYI, just in case you're not aware, the commentary is only included with the 2D disc that's part of the 3D version of The Force Awakens but I might have the commentary track on one of my computers if you're interested.
Dang, this was actually a nice salve on my fears. And don't worry about the commentary, I've, uh, taken care of that particular need. Kinda dumb (read: needlessly capitalistic) that they made it exclusive to the 3D version, is all I'll say.

I thought she said she didn't want to do one.
*checks* That she did:


It's a bummer, definitely, but it's not like the industry's short on female directorial talent. All that's required is the will from the higher-ups.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
1,388
Has this been posted? I would hope so since Jenny is the best.

As hilarious as this video is, every single point she makes about why Kylo will get his redemption arc in IX is 100% valid and correct.
I absolutely adore Jenny. Not sure if she is right about Kylo, but it doesn't matter...I love watching all her vids.