I ended up rewatching TFA and TLJ over the last two nights out of hype for the TROS trailer. Every time I watch TLJ my befuddlement how some hate this movie only grows. God damn it is one hell of a movie.
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Star Wars |OT2| This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them! [OPEN TROS SPOILERS | TAG MANDO SPOILERS]
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
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Join me and rewatch all the movies. About to start Revenge of the Sith now after watching, in order, IV, V, VI, I, and II (how they're meant to be seen XD)
I think you need to train physically not to use the Force, but just to be in good shape physically. When Vader was throwing heavy objects at Luke in ESB, Luke was seriously hurt and he looked completely out of breath and exhausted. A bit of physical training is just common sense for a knight IMO.
Well there was a physical component to Luke's training too. Yoda had him running around, doing flips, climbing vines. Unless he just wanted a free ride around.
Not sure how I feel about this. There's nothing explicitly wrong with this deal, and having a xianxia style book will be pretty cool (assuming they translate it for us), but there's always the slippery slope...
We better be getting the trailer Monday!
I'm getting worried we might not since there's been no official chatter
I'm getting worried we might not since there's been no official chatter
Tired: Take advantage of Star Wars' lack of popularity in China to take innovative risks elsewhere in the world, like LGBT characters, since it won't matter if Star Wars gets banned there
Wired: Just keep forcing Star Wars into an oppressive, totalitarian, homophobic regime that has indicated it doesn't give a shit about the franchise multiple times
Wired: Just keep forcing Star Wars into an oppressive, totalitarian, homophobic regime that has indicated it doesn't give a shit about the franchise multiple times
Right? Even stripping all the identifiable brand imagery off Solo and marketing it as "Ranger Solo" didn't result in anything approaching a good BO in China. Don't fucking compromise Star Wars over here chasing after bad money over there.
That studios want China market is understandable. It's huge even though studios don't get a big % of the gross from there. You simply don't let a market like that slip through your fingers. Also, most of the world does not share specifically American values and blockbuster movies, because of their extreme budgets, are made for global market so they have to compromise in some aspects for things that may fly in America, Oz and Western Europe may not fly in eastern Europe, Asia and Latam. In fact, SW is doing poorly in those continents save Japan most likely because those markets are not interested in its setting and themes, unlike Marvel and Fast&Furious that connected with them. Moreover, those markets are desirable because they are in expansion, unlike traditional markets that stagnate. You are going to make more money off markets that grow than markets that don't. SW's blind spot, even when TFA made 2 billion, was that it made most money off old markets (US, Europe, Japan, Oz) but had ho-hum results everywhere else and that only got worse for spin-offs (even Japan rejected RO), TLJ dropped hard and Solo tanked everywhere.
I recognize the workings of capitalism. I also don't give a shit. The right thing to do is the right thing to do.
It's not a bad faith argument because plenty of people who deride the film have said as much or implied that they wanted Luke to basically do precisely what he says he won't do when he and Rey first meet up and discuss the burden of expectations. (Specifically, the notion of him taking on the First Order with his laser sword single-handedly)
As to the issue with Ben, Luke doesn't give into anything. That would require him to have actually tried to murder Ben.
Luke sees what Ben/Kylo is going to become – a mass murdering and merciless leader who threatens everything he and his family have built – and for the briefest moment considers ending that threat immediately and decisively. What is bizarre about your take is that it assumes Luke wouldn't act or react to such a threat in any way or be tempted to stave off the potential death of billions with a singular, selfless act. (Given Luke's nature killing Ben would not have been an easy decision) The Luke I know – the one of the OT – is certainly capable of weighing the equation of the many versus the one but regardless, Luke doesn't kill Ben.
The notion that Luke wouldn't have at least been tempted however is to suggest Luke has no nuance or complexity. Your assessment of him is that of a one-dimensional heroic archetype and I simply do not agree with that analysis.
As to Luke's death, I felt it was profoundly moving and incredibly heroic, not to mention effectively preserving his non-violent approach to dealing with Dark Side family members. (He could have easily killed Ben but instead keeps him occupied while the Resistance escapes)
The right thing to do, when your movies cost north of 250M before P&A, is try to win over markets that didn't click so far. It's good business.
Or make cheap movies like Joker and Bohemian Rhapsody that don't need China to be more profitable than Captain Marvel, Aquaman, etc.
Or make cheap movies like Joker and Bohemian Rhapsody that don't need China to be more profitable than Captain Marvel, Aquaman, etc.
No, it really didn't. It performed how sequels often perform and still made 1.3 billion.
The only financial disappointment was Solo and that was largely due to a poor release window.
Just wait until Rise of Skywalker makes more than Last Jedi.
People are going to practically shit themselves trying to come up with a narrative that justifies a dead franchise making another billion (or more) at the box office.
These films have made billions without China. They don't need the market to keep SW insanely profitable.
Solo bomb has nothing to do with poor release window. There was no interest in that movie, not by fans, not by GA. Any time of the year would be a bad time. The movie was miscast and they underestimated how big factor in character popularity Ford was. And Elden was not what Rami Malek was to Bohemian Rhapsody. people saw him in previews and didn't see Han whereas they saw Freddie Mercury in Malek.
TLJ drop is typical for second SW movie but the fact remain that SW failed in Asia (without old market Japan) and current movies will not change that. The market doesn't care for the concept (be it saga or spin-offs) and characters/actors. Same goes for South America where SW, while not a fail like in Asia, is doing blah compared to how well some other franchises do.
Fortunately for SW, they are getting rid of ST cast that failed to excite that audience and have freedom to try something else (though D&D don't incite confidence).
Not so insanely. Rogue One cost 200M, 45M less than TFA, but made 1B less and it wouldn't crawl past 1B mark without China's 69M. So no China, no claiming another 1B on franchise resume. TLJ cost 317M to make and its total ended up 700M below TFA's (which was cheaper). If it made more than paltry 42M in China, it would have closed the gap. Point being, expending markets provide bigger numbers not stagnating ones. That's why studios want those markets no matter how "oppressive" they may seem to "progressive" fans.
Solo's release window was incredibly problematic coming just a few months after TLJ and releasing shortly before Avengers: Infinity War. While I think Solo was destined to be the lowest-grossing Disney SW flick, had they waited and released it the following December, made it an 'event' film like they've done with all previous SW movies and hyped it accordingly, it would have done much better domestically.
TLJ's performance in those markets echoes TFA's performance in those markets, which also sagged comparatively. SW has a global following but it is a home-grown IP that continues to perform outlandishly well here in the States, Europe, etc. but is largely ignored in places like China.
But given the numbers, those markets are incidental as the films (with the obvious exception of Solo) are all billion-dollar (or more) performers regardless of the indifference of those marketplaces.
"Good business" is almost never "the right thing to do," comrade.
Rogue One was also a spinoff that was never projected to come anywhere near TFA'a gross by anyone, including Disney.
And of course China represents potential revenue but that doesn't mean they need that revenue so much as they want it, which are two different things entirely.
There's no evidence that SW is stagnating as a franchise. If RotS makes less than TLJ, then we can have that discussion.
Currently, the evidence strongly suggests SW doesn't need China to be successful.
Again, just because you don't need a market atm it doesn't mean you should pass on it entirely and LFL clearly wants to woo China somehow. Their budgets are growing and growing and, yes, they'll need China, SK, India.
BDS You view it from social activism POV which doesn't fly when you are responsible for enormous budget that you have to get back and make some profit on it. if you were a studio boss you'd take profit over forcing your activism onto cultures that don't accept it or you wouldn't be made a studio boss. Simple.
Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric Solo release window argument is BS. When people are interested in something, they don't care about 'release window". They simply didn't care about Solo at all. Short release window didn't hurt Black panther/Infinity War (February and April) or Captain Marvel/Endgame (March and April). And it isn't because SW operates on different rules. people were interested in those movies. They weren't nearly as interested in Ant Man and the Wasp hence that one making far less money in July (4 months after Infinity War). Solo was unnecessary and recasting only made things worse. Simple.
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Normally I'd agree with you but currently fuck China for obvious reasons.
That said, hopefully they can expand the brand to the other markets you mention.
For Star Wars to work in new markets that have no cultural relevance to them, they'd have to drop all the nostalgia, drop Tatooine, make an entirely new scenario with all new characters with lightsabers and vibrant worlds. I think one of the biggest complaints I have seen from Chinese users is that they were either confused or wondering why all the sequel worlds were "so boring." It'd need to be a complete reinvention. It would be cool if they did it right, who knows?
It kind of sounds like Square Enix trying to make Dragon Quest happen over and over again here in the US and it just never happening though.
It kind of sounds like Square Enix trying to make Dragon Quest happen over and over again here in the US and it just never happening though.
yep, China speaketh truth. ST is an epic fail in world building.
Jakku being not-Tatooine, Maz's bar being a recreation of the Mos Eisley cantina, Crait being not-Hoth (this is a stretch but it was clearly meant to invoke the same feelings - until the "it's salt" twist).
The best world has been Ahch-To and it just a stormy island for the most part lol. They could have done more with these locations, probably one of my biggest disappointments.
Pretty much all the locations were better in the concept art. For example Jakku as a swamp world, etc. Blows my mind how out of all the concepts they picked the least interesting versions every time :/
Difference between Cantina and Maz Palace, for example, is that Cantina is lived in. You get the sense of wonder that such place exists, and you get the feel of the place and characters that populate it. before Luke and Obi Wan even get to Han, we get the following world building tidbits:
Droids are banned from entering
There's some nasty piece of work but brawl, kills and maiming are obviously business as usual for nobody bat an eyelash when Obi Wan cut Walrusface's arm or when Han shot first
Point being, we spend some time with those characters before we jump into moving the plot forward.
OTOH, Maz palace doesn't work like that. We are briefly shown colorful patrons who aren't doing anything particularly interesting and then the heroes and Maz start to talk about stuff unrelated to building the world of Maz Palace. In short, quick glance at the Cantina homage and back to moving the plot forward.
Droids are banned from entering
There's some nasty piece of work but brawl, kills and maiming are obviously business as usual for nobody bat an eyelash when Obi Wan cut Walrusface's arm or when Han shot first
Point being, we spend some time with those characters before we jump into moving the plot forward.
OTOH, Maz palace doesn't work like that. We are briefly shown colorful patrons who aren't doing anything particularly interesting and then the heroes and Maz start to talk about stuff unrelated to building the world of Maz Palace. In short, quick glance at the Cantina homage and back to moving the plot forward.
Yea the TFA Art Of book is very revealing in that way. Think it was a time thing
If an audience has no nostalgic connection to Tatooine, then what does it matter using Tatooine (or alternatively Jakku)? That seems like something that would bother people who are already familiar with Star Wars and don't want to revisit familiar places, than someone not familiar with Star Wars and thus wouldn't know or care one way or the other.
Where nostalgia doesn't work for Chinese audiences is, for instance, all of the stuff with Han or Luke. These are legacy characters who bring a weight to the films just by being Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill...but if audiences aren't familiar with the actors or the characters or why they're in any way a big deal, then that actively detracts from following the story.
Where nostalgia doesn't work for Chinese audiences is, for instance, all of the stuff with Han or Luke. These are legacy characters who bring a weight to the films just by being Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill...but if audiences aren't familiar with the actors or the characters or why they're in any way a big deal, then that actively detracts from following the story.
There are some good answers here from Chinese individuals, if that is something you are interested in learning about. Most of it boils down to the same "this is confusing," "why do we care about these characters," questions that anyone unfamiliar with a saga would ask but also more in-depth answers about wuxia existing forever and the philosophy of Star Wars being different than there.
Thanks in part to some chatter here recently, I subscribed to the Skytalkers podcast. I like them. They pointed out that the title for each of the third movies starts with a related word that begins with the letter 'R:' Revenge of the Sith, Return of the Jedi, Rise of Skywalker (if you ignore the "the"), and that they seem to follow each other. First, there was the Revenge of the bad guys, then the Return of the good guys, and now ending with the Rise of the good guys (presumably).
We've gotten about as much at this point as we had for The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Solid rumors pointing to tickets going on sale Monday and several decent sources saying the trailer will appear then. For both, there was no official word until Sunday afternoon when the official Twitter account admitted to it (or Sunday morning when the teases began airing on TV, depending on what you consider "official").
On a related note, I'm calling my shot. I am predicting that a shot shown to shareholders months ago, and included in the D23 opening montage will be used in a tease if not the actual trailer. Spoiler tagged just in case:
We've gotten about as much at this point as we had for The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Solid rumors pointing to tickets going on sale Monday and several decent sources saying the trailer will appear then. For both, there was no official word until Sunday afternoon when the official Twitter account admitted to it (or Sunday morning when the teases began airing on TV, depending on what you consider "official").
On a related note, I'm calling my shot. I am predicting that a shot shown to shareholders months ago, and included in the D23 opening montage will be used in a tease if not the actual trailer. Spoiler tagged just in case:
Kylo, in a room that sort of looks like the hallways of the Tantive IV or Vader's meditation chamber, opening a case containing the helmet of Darth Vader.
Lol, what about my post is revisionist? I never said there was no physical component of using the Force (obviously you learn to do physical things with the Force). But always, as we see in the OT and ST, the lessons being taught are about a state of mind, not a physical understanding (in order to effectively harness its power). Even for deflecting freaking blaster bolts, yes, it still comes down to your state of mind, not physical training. Obi-Wan tells Luke to "trust your instincts" and to unlearn what he has learned, basically what Yoda taught him in the next movie too. Not to trust his eyes, to take yourself out of the physical world and let your instincts control the Force/its power.
Yoda's extent of physical training in ESB was "yes, run!" while on Luke's back. Because again, the physical components come as a result of his mental state. Even while Luke is doing all of these amazing physical feats, it's Yoda talking him through the mental process, training his mind, not his body. It's the exact same thing we see in ANH as well, when Luke shuts off his computer and trusts himself (his instinctual abilities to harness the Force).
Yoda again explains that the Force is not about physicality (luminous beings are we/not this crude matter).
Like all of this is in in the movie, explained by Jedi Masters. The the mental training translates into physical feats, not the other way around.
Controlling/mastering feelings/emotions/mental state is how the power of the Force is harnessed, whether it's seeing into the future or deflecting blaster bolts. That doesn't mean the absolute only lesson to teach is to believe in yourself/trust your instincts, of course (or that Jedi who were trained only learned about this). But that's the lesson Luke learns when he fails to lift the X-Wing, and really stands as a reflection of the main challenge he faces throughout the OT.
Answered above
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The less Star Wars associates itself with China the better in my opinion.
Anyway, that countries box office importance continues to be overrated. Foreign studios only receive 25% of the total box office taken for each movie they release there.
Anyway, that countries box office importance continues to be overrated. Foreign studios only receive 25% of the total box office taken for each movie they release there.
Wooh, back from my month-long ban in time for the trailer.
Also, after playing the Battlefront Ii campaign I'm thinking that it would have been better if they didn't wrap up Iden's story in the game. For instance, she could have been used in place of Holdo in TLJ. You could have had legitimate tension between her and Poe because Iden used to be part of the Empire so Poe could have had suspicions that she never truly defected.
Also, after playing the Battlefront Ii campaign I'm thinking that it would have been better if they didn't wrap up Iden's story in the game. For instance, she could have been used in place of Holdo in TLJ. You could have had legitimate tension between her and Poe because Iden used to be part of the Empire so Poe could have had suspicions that she never truly defected.
25% of 614M (Endgame) is 153.5M which is more than what Endgame made in individual markets (where % of retention varies but it never even close to 100%). The closest to China's 25% are UK's full gross (before % application) of 115M and South Korea's 105M. Please enlighten me why studios that invest 356M (Endgame) to make their movies should leave that money on the table?
Placeholder pages for Star Wars Marathon screenings have been posted on both AMC and Cinemark's websites. Trailer + ticket sales probably imminent!
Yep, I can see showtimes for nearly all the theaters in my area (Cinemark and Regal). Still can't purchase tickets yet, but they're so close I can smell em
Entertainment Weekly has a brief new interview with J.J. Abrams. He doesn't say much new, but this did amuse me:
Oh please, oh please let the AMC near me do the marathon. And people doing the marathon get to see Rise of Skywalker even earlier than the fan event.
Oh please, oh please let the AMC near me do the marathon. And people doing the marathon get to see Rise of Skywalker even earlier than the fan event.
Because to make that much money over there, Endgame had to make an insane amount (record breaking?). What the best-case scenario for Star Wars in that market? That it eventually starts making Aquaman type money? Why bend over to them and put your resources, time and effort into a market that has shown it doesn't care. It 's not like the possible 80million it might take home from there one day will make or break the franchise.
It goes without saying they would like that extra cash, but while the box office cut stays so low, success or non-success in that market will have little effect on the future of SW.
Besides anything else, chasing that Chinese $ is shameful and a black eye on whoever partakes in it.
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