Yeah..what can we throw at the character that's an even greater 'problem'.
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Star Wars |OT2| This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them! [OPEN TROS SPOILERS | TAG MANDO SPOILERS]
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
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The funniest moment there that I missed the first time is when Qi'ra is putting up the capes. Han gets between her and rack, gets the cape from her and it looks like he's gonna do it for her, but he just sorta lets it drop on the floor.
Such a randomly dick move. lol
That was a George Lucas addition, according to Ron Howard:
ComicBook.com said:
That's actually the reason I saw it in my second viewing. It's such a quick lil' moment that I didn't even notice it.
Yes, TFA sets up the idea that Rey has important parentage. But then TLJ gives us a twist that hurts our protagonist, and the audience, just as the original trilogy did.
In ANH, Luke wants to know his father, learn more about him, and avenge his death, and since Luke is the audience surrogate and protagonist, we want these things for him too. So when he confronts Vader in ESB and learns the truth, it's a painful moment. We feel Luke's pain because he got what he wanted and it wasn't at all what he expected. It was devastating and destroyed his life to that point.
Similarly, in TFA Rey wants to know her parents, learn about them, and learn who she is in the process, and she is our protagonist and surrogate so we want these things too. So when Kylo tells her in TLJ that her parents are nobodies and she's nobody too, it hurts her and it hurts us by extension. All Rey wanted was to know who she is, and now she has the answer and it doesn't help her at all or make her feel any better.
Dan Harmon has a thing called the story circle that's basically a modified version of Campbell's Hero's Journey, and this is the crux point of the story called "Meeting the Goddess," where the hero finally finds what they were looking for all their life and it isn't what they expected. The goal they were selfishly seeking does not satisfy them, and so they have to instead pivot to a more selfless goal, looking outwards instead of inwards. In a story not written by a hack, this is the part where Rey would turn her focus towards rebuilding the Jedi, destroying the First Order, redeeming Kylo, working on a new form of government, or literally anything other than continuing to obsess over her parentage that ultimately gets upended again for literally no reason other than to retcon and erase the previous film.
Thank god social media didn't exist when the original trilogy was being written.
In ANH, Luke wants to know his father, learn more about him, and avenge his death, and since Luke is the audience surrogate and protagonist, we want these things for him too. So when he confronts Vader in ESB and learns the truth, it's a painful moment. We feel Luke's pain because he got what he wanted and it wasn't at all what he expected. It was devastating and destroyed his life to that point.
Similarly, in TFA Rey wants to know her parents, learn about them, and learn who she is in the process, and she is our protagonist and surrogate so we want these things too. So when Kylo tells her in TLJ that her parents are nobodies and she's nobody too, it hurts her and it hurts us by extension. All Rey wanted was to know who she is, and now she has the answer and it doesn't help her at all or make her feel any better.
Dan Harmon has a thing called the story circle that's basically a modified version of Campbell's Hero's Journey, and this is the crux point of the story called "Meeting the Goddess," where the hero finally finds what they were looking for all their life and it isn't what they expected. The goal they were selfishly seeking does not satisfy them, and so they have to instead pivot to a more selfless goal, looking outwards instead of inwards. In a story not written by a hack, this is the part where Rey would turn her focus towards rebuilding the Jedi, destroying the First Order, redeeming Kylo, working on a new form of government, or literally anything other than continuing to obsess over her parentage that ultimately gets upended again for literally no reason other than to retcon and erase the previous film.
Thank god social media didn't exist when the original trilogy was being written.
I'll see your devil's advocate and raise you
the middle ground is probably Rey's parentage in TFA was a mostly empty JJ Mystery Box. Although, didn't Daisy have some information given to her from JJ?
Hmm. To me, the worst thing Rey - who desires belonging - could find out is that she's actually nobody. It's what makes Ben's offer in TLJ so tempting.
There's an alternate timeline where the final movie in the trilogy was more like this. I try not to think about it and just be thankful new Star Wars is still a thing.
But alternatively it's now the mother of all be careful what you wish for's. Yeah she's somebody.
And that somebody is a monster.
And that somebody is a monster.
Apparently MSW heard back in 2014/2015 that JJ wanted the conflict to be between a Palpatine and a Skywalker.
I also disagree with the notion that Rey's greatest fear is coming from nothing. which is silly. 99% of the population comes from average people. Her greatest fear is her parents abandoning her and never loving her imo.
I don't think her greatest fear was that she is coming from nothing. Its learning that she has to learn to stand on her own feet. That is why the mirror scene in TLJ didn't show her parents but Rey herself.
She can't rely on the past to guide her.
"I need someone to show me my place in all this."
"You have no place in this story. You come from nothing you're nothing."
Rey asks to see her parents in the mirror scene and she is shown herself. Why does this happen? Rey has parents in TFA, TLJ and now TROS, she just doesn't know who they are. So in TLJ we could've just seen 2 random people we've never seen before, like in TROS, but that wouldn't have meant anything to Rey in that moment. What she really wants is to be told that her parents are Han and Leia or Luke or someone of importance because she wants a place in this story.
Which is why the TROS reveal undoes some of the beautiful writing in TLJ, she fears coming from nothing because it means not having a part in this story. Up until then she thought Finn and Han were the heroes of this story and then in TLJ it was Luke and a possibly redeemed Kylo but never her. Never any place among these heroes, among these people of importance, since she was just Rey from nowhere.
By the end she overcomes that and realizes that she IS of importance, she IS the hero of this story and because of that she does have a place in all of this, a place in this story and she might come from nothing but she is still something.
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This is why I wish Rey had stayed a no one, Rian did so much to sell this part of Rey. It would've ended up being more narratively interesting for Rey, I think.
"You have no place in this story. You come from nothing you're nothing."
Rey asks to see her parents in the mirror scene and she is shown herself. Why does this happen? Rey has parents in TFA, TLJ and now TROS, she just doesn't know who they are. So in TLJ we could've just seen 2 random people we've never seen before, like in TROS, but that wouldn't have meant anything to Rey in that moment. What she really wants is to be told that her parents are Han and Leia or Luke or someone of importance because she wants a place in this story.
Which is why the TROS reveal undoes some of the beautiful writing in TLJ, she fears coming from nothing because it means not having a part in this story. Up until then she thought Finn and Han were the heroes of this story and then in TLJ it was Luke and a possibly redeemed Kylo but never her. Never any place among these heroes, among these people of importance, since she was just Rey from nowhere.
By the end she overcomes that and realizes that she IS of importance, she IS the hero of this story and because of that she does have a place in all of this, a place in this story and she might come from nothing but she is still something.
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This is why I wish Rey had stayed a no one, Rian did so much to sell this part of Rey. It would've ended up being more narratively interesting for Rey, I think.
If TROS had told us she was Luke's daughter, I feel everything about what Rian set up would've been destroyed. However, her being a Palpatine ends up playing decently with what Rian set up since Rey still went through all of that, her character development is still all there and now she has to fight against the heritage she once wanted since it goes against the path she wants.
I've seen people say that her being a Palpatine ruins part of her because it means that she's powerful because of Palpatine and not because of herself. I don't have an issue with that since Rey had never been powerful because she trained really well or something, it's because the Force would've chosen her. At the end of the day it's a skill that almost no one has and you just have to be lucky to be born with.
I've seen people say that her being a Palpatine ruins part of her because it means that she's powerful because of Palpatine and not because of herself. I don't have an issue with that since Rey had never been powerful because she trained really well or something, it's because the Force would've chosen her. At the end of the day it's a skill that almost no one has and you just have to be lucky to be born with.
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Finn is Force sensitive and NO ONE wonders who his parents are. Rey's parents being special was not needed.
Is this legit about MSW? I'm really not sure what to believe about that, tbh. It really did seem like a last-minute ass pull to me.
Open TROS Spoilers
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As I believe we've all seen it now I've asked the mods to update the title to say open TROS spoilers.
The Mandalorian still doesn't release here and in some other countries until March so please continue to tag spoilers.
The Mandalorian still doesn't release here and in some other countries until March so please continue to tag spoilers.
My post shouldn't have been as snarky as it was. Maybe JJ did have it in mind. I think the problem really is the disconnected nature of how this trilogy came about. If JJ had ideas and KK was good with them, there should have been more of an effort to make things play a little nicer between films.
Also, my intent with Rey's fear thing was more along the lines of the belonging she wanted. Her being nobody meant that she had no one and no place, no one to rely on. TRoS at least gives her something, even if it isn't a great something. It's not a complete undoing of TLJ but it all doesn't quite jive to me.
I think the question of Rey's parentage came up more than it should have. She should have been allowed to be powerful on her own. The MRA crowd is probably loving the fact that her power comes from a man. Heaven forbid a woman actually be competent, versatile and gifted.
Edit: yay spoilers!
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The golden lightsaber was the best looking saber I have ever seen in live action.
Should have been constructed at the start... in a alternate world where she stayed a "nobody".
Should have been constructed at the start... in a alternate world where she stayed a "nobody".
Yay... It isn't helped by the fact that it is her father who is related to Palpatine, rather than her mother...
God, we'll never actually see her kicking ass with that gorgeous Lightsaber.
One dumb little thing that bothers me is the teeth. I noticed that the end part from her staff is flat and opens in kind of a mouth when the blade ignites. Kinda reminds me of all the unnecessary articulation in Michael Bay's Transformers. Just a dumb minor gripe - I love the colour.
Ugh. Such a small tweak that would have made such a big difference. I wish you hadn't mentioned that - now I'm annoyed.
I thought it was yellow lol Also, I still don't know if it was a double bladed saber or not. I hope we see it in live-action one day.....
She'll kindly say that she's actually a Skywalker and then walk off into the Anaheim/Florida sunset.
Now I'm picturing Rey's dad jumpstarting their family speeder on a cold morning, little Rey in a carseat in the back.
She'll say she's a Skywalker then walk away into the twin sunset I mean sunset of Anaheim California.
So I said that once Disney+ launched, I would, in 2020, start watching the Star Wars films (in release order) for the first time. Well, I started that pledge tonight instead of Wednesday.
And boy was that an enjoyable film! Plenty of action, humor, good acting, etc. Excited to keep trucking on on Wednesday night.
And boy was that an enjoyable film! Plenty of action, humor, good acting, etc. Excited to keep trucking on on Wednesday night.
Has to be a Kenobi. It's the only family the sequel trilogy hasn't pulled into its madness yet!
JJ says the Plagueis scene in ROTS is his favourite, and then ruins it in this movie by revealing that the Palpatine we've always known is not actually Palpatine. Because Plagueis would have taken over when Sidious murdered him, following the logic of this movie.
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It's true. Darth Bane is Palpatine's original incarnation.
Yep, ANH still remains the gold standard in many ways. Curious to hear what you think of Empire!
That's so trash. The guy we've followed all along is actually an amalgamation of countless before. How did they not see that this completely undermines Sidious' one-true goal of immortality and galactic dominance - for himself. The guy was never about upholding the Sith religion as TROS posits. It's such an asspull.
I hate that the Prequels have programmed us to think the galaxy is so small.
But Rey is all the Jedi. Balance.
But all the Jedi still exist outside of her, as evidenced by Force Ghosts. The implication with the Sith/Sidious is that they're all wrattling around in there as one big personification of evil.
So finally watched Solo and I have to say I really liked it. Shame it didn't do good as I thought it was a lot of fun and all the actors did great.
Why think that? I'm sure we'll get something post TROS at some point. Be it a video game skin, comic, or something.
It makes sense. Sith can't become Force ghosts so this is their way of staying immortal.
I know, I was just being cheeky.
I'm kinda okay with this.
My point is, Palpatine is no longer a character. By the time we really see him in the prequels, he's already murdered Plagueis and so all of those Sith guys are inside him. He no longer has his own autonomy thanks to this retcon.
Maybe it's more that Palpatine is just so strong of will that he dominates the other Sith within him. Remember, he specifically says that he is going to live on inside Rey, not "we" meaning all the Sith, but he, Sheev, specifically. He considers himself an independent person.
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