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Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
The extent to which the MCU has a thorough plan that they've stuck to over the years is also seriously exaggerated. Even for something like Infinity War and Endgame, only the broadest strokes were thought up in advance; they didn't land on 90+ percent of either one's story until it was time to actually write the things.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,219
Really tempted to make a "Let's Face It if Kevin Feige was a women, ERA would call for him to be fired" thread in the OT, but I am too tired for that shit.
 
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Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
People seem to be looking at the MCU's history with rose tinted glasses at times. It had more then it's fair share of production issues.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,280
Because that's not how creativity works. Look at the MCU which is the absolute best case scenario for this. Hulk actor - replaced. War machine actor - replaced. Ant-man director - replaced. Dr. strange director - replaced. Etc, etc, etc. creativity is messy.

Now ask your self why people only call for KK to be fired? What could possibly be different about her?

You aren't wrong but at least as far as I know the MCU hasn't had horrible production mishaps on all but 2 of its releases

Director changes at the last minute, scrambles to get a script together, extensive reshoots

I get why people here are complaining

It seems like just about every Star Wars product faces mismanagement of some sort that leads to difficulties

I should add I don't necessarily agree with the idea either because we could get someone far worse but something needs to be done at some point if this keeps happening
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,180
England
How did Lucasfilm not realise before this that an Obi Wan show set between III and IV would be strikingly similar to another show involving someone protecting a force sensitive child? How is it that it took until production was just about to start for someone to notice?

I don't want it to be too much like the Mandalorian either.

What would you have the Obi Wan show be about?

LF tightening up quality control after TROS ain't a bad thing really. The old writer for Obi- Wan did not conspire confidence in the project.

Shame we couldn't of had this level of quality control before, when Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Screenplay winner Chris Terrio was co-writing the final ever instalment of the Skywalker saga.
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
Interesting tweet. Still not sure I believe that one, though.



This is actually an interesting thread. I don't know how in the know this guy is, but this seems to contradict a lot of feelings about TROS.

 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
Been playing around with the photomode in Battlefront 2. The quality of the assets are so insane. The Naboo hangar level is just mind-blowing to see. Too bad its customization options are gated behind F2P grind systems.

i5pbI0.jpg


Also, I love what modders are doing:

i5pwBD.jpg
 
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matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Interesting tweet. Still not sure I believe that one, though.



This is actually an interesting thread. I don't know how in the know this guy is, but this seems to contradict a lot of feelings about TROS.



Some serious tea being spilt here:



I mean, that is pretty much what felt obvious just from watching the movie (i.e. JJ just personally hated TLJ and wanted to undo it), but it just feels so insane that you feel like there has to be some other explanation for why TROS is the way it is. Like, that couldn't possibly be allowed to happen with a production on this scale, right? I'm not familiar with this Sciretta guy so I don't know if this is anything to buy into, but if it is true? Man.
 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
Some serious tea being spilt here:



I mean, that is pretty much what felt obvious just from watching the movie (i.e. JJ just personally hated TLJ and wanted to undo it), but it just feels so insane that you feel like there has to be some other explanation for why TROS is the way it is. Like, that couldn't possibly be allowed to happen with a production on this scale, right? I'm not familiar with this Sciretta guy so I don't know if this is anything to buy into, but if it is true? Man.


This is a bummer if it's true. Is JJ just... petty?
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
This is a bummer if it's true. Is JJ just... petty?
Lmao.. sometimes its just that simple.

lol, it just seems too crazy to be true. I mean, I walked out of the cinema after TROS thinking "OK, JJ definitely hates Rian Johnson", but once I'd cooled off I realized that couldn't actually be the reason. There's no way Star Wars Episode IX's production went ahead with a screenplay written out of pure spite, right? That'd be ridiculous. Lucasfilm backpedaling and mandating a 'safe' movie in reaction to fan backlash seemed like a more believable explanation.

But if JJ really had carte blanche and this all comes down to his bruised ego, and nobody from the studio ever stepped in to say "No, we obviously can't do this, don't be silly", I mean... like... what can you even say?
 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
It kinda makes me angry. This "trilogy" was certainly all an improv and Rian's TLJ was a "yes, and" to JJ's TFA but JJ's TRoS is much more of a "yes, but" which throws a wrench in the whole flow of it. Fine, you don't like what Rian did with your mystery boxes but you're all playing in someone else's sandbox. It certainly confirms one thing for me though and that's the fact that JJ is a Star Wars fan because he thinks he owns the franchise and it should all be how he thinks it should be.


What would you have the Obi Wan show be about?

This is a tough one. Even before the Mandalorian, I didn't want it to be about Obi-Wan keeping constant vigil over Luke. I don't think it makes sense for Luke to be in such constant danger that Obi-Wan is spending each and every day on some ridge spying on him. To me, that's an 80's cartoon about l'il Luke where he keeps getting in trouble and Obi-Wan is constantly swooping in to save his troublesome ass. Also, I definitely don't want him to go off-world because I don't think that makes sense given his overall mission.

I liked the one comic where Obi-Wan was struggling with not being able to do anything to help those around him. His entire life was dedicated to protecting the galaxy and now he can't use his strengths to do anything for those in need. To be surrounded by the downtrodden, under the thumb of the Hutt's and local gangs and to not be able to act in fear of blowing his cover would all be interesting subject matter to me. The problem is, there's no lazersword action in that and people likely wouldn't be into a deeper character piece about his life in solitude.
 

SlumberingGiant

alt account
Banned
Jul 2, 2019
1,389
I don't get why people find it so hard to believe that JJ just didn't like TLJ and wanted to undo it. How do you TROS and not see that clearly
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
I don't get why people find it so hard to believe that JJ just didn't like TLJ and wanted to undo it. How do you TROS and not see that clearly

Oh I see it, but it just seems unbelievable because you feel like there must have been some kind of safety net in place to stop him from doing that. How does a several-hundred-million-dollar production could go ahead driven by one dude's hurt feelings? Producers, EPs, cast, crew, the entire marketing apparatus, all working in service of basically this:

 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
I don't find it hard to believe that JJ didn't like TLJ. I find it hard to believe that JJ couldn't be more professional and that no one at Lucasfilm made any attempt to have the trilogy end like, oh, I dunno, an actual trilogy instead of two movies that connect well and a third that does its own thing.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I feel like Lucasfilm kind of needs to start announcing some shit. Retake control of the PR narrative. The Star Wars brand has been engulfed in two straight months of terrible PR and negativity and Lucasfilm has been totally radio silent even as we know they have a number of cool projects in development. The one thing they've done is drop a well-received Clone Wars trailer that was immediately overshadowed by the Obi-Wan news and the continuing turmoil over Trevorrow's scrapped script. One step forward and one step back.

They need to be like Marvel and just do a big blast of information at a stage show somewhere. High Republic movie! Project Luminous! Rebels sequel! Aphra! Cassian news! But the problem is Celebration isn't until August this year for some reason so they can't use it as a marketing vehicle early in the year.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
Interesting that Ewan believes the show is still on track for the same release date. I guess if they're doing one-third fewer episodes that would speed up the timetable for filming and post.

This "trilogy" was certainly all an improv and Rian's TLJ was a "yes, and" to JJ's TFA but JJ's TRoS is much more of a "yes, but" which throws a wrench in the whole flow of it.
heh, that's a good way to characterize it!

I don't know if I necessarily believe JJ was motivated out of spite toward Rian/TLJ. But I can also totally see JJ being one of those guys who thought TLJ "ruined" a lot of what TFA had set up. On more than once, he praised Rian and TLJ's script for the same shit that certain people online like to harp on: that it was subversive, didn't do what you expected it to, zigged when you thought it would zag, etc. As if it was subversion for subversion's sake, and not because there were genuine, dramatically-sound story choices being made behind those subversions.

While I've warmed up a bit more to TROS since first viewing the movie definitely made me feel for the first time that JJ really does have no imagination as a storyteller and I could totally buy the idea that some of the story choices in TLJ went over his head and he ended up reading them a "fuck you, this doesn't matter" plot turn that so many Plagueis=Snoke theorists took away from the film.
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,640
USA
I feel like Lucasfilm kind of needs to start announcing some shit. Retake control of the PR narrative. The Star Wars brand has been engulfed in two straight months of terrible PR and negativity and Lucasfilm has been totally radio silent even as we know they have a number of cool projects in development. The one thing they've done is drop a well-received Clone Wars trailer that was immediately overshadowed by the Obi-Wan news and the continuing turmoil over Trevorrow's scrapped script. One step forward and one step back.

They need to be like Marvel and just do a big blast of information at a stage show somewhere. High Republic movie! Project Luminous! Rebels sequel! Aphra! Cassian news! But the problem is Celebration isn't until August this year for some reason so they can't use it as a marketing vehicle early in the year.

January is almost over and we were supposed to get a director for the next film and info on Project Luminous. 😭
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
Didn't realize Celebration isn't until August, that's a bummer... presumably they will have a lot more TV stuff in the can to show by then (well I guess not Obi-Wan now, but Mando S2 and Cassian, plus animated stuff). They'll have to announce the 2022 film's director way earlier than that though. JJ was announced as the director of TFA in January 2013, which is exactly where we are now in the next movie's timeline.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,936
Didn't realize Celebration isn't until August, that's a bummer... presumably they will have a lot more TV stuff in the can to show by then (well I guess not Obi-Wan now, but Mando S2 and Cassian, plus animated stuff). They'll have to announce the 2022 film's director way earlier than that though. JJ was announced as the director of TFA in January 2013, which is exactly where we are now in the next movie's timeline.
Obi Wan was only suposed to start filming in august anyway, so chances were slim there would already be something to show. Maybe a bts-video of sets being built up or rehersals or something.

I believe we'll hear about the director of the 2022 movie earlier than Celebration. Hopefully it's soon, but the departure of D&D must've altered their timeline.
 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
I don't know if I necessarily believe JJ was motivated out of spite toward Rian/TLJ. But I can also totally see JJ being one of those guys who thought TLJ "ruined" a lot of what TFA had set up. On more than once, he praised Rian and TLJ's script for the same shit that certain people online like to harp on: that it was subversive, didn't do what you expected it to, zigged when you thought it would zag, etc. As if it was subversion for subversion's sake, and not because there were genuine, dramatically-sound story choices being made behind those subversions.

I don't know how much I'd say "spite" but certainly having creative differences and not playing nice with the previous entry. One Sciretta's other tweets used the term "course correction" which I don't think the trilogy needed but Rian took TFA's setup and gently took it in one direction and it really feels to me like JJ took TRoS and wrenched it far in the other direction to fill in what he would have done with the middle chapter. It just makes it all seem so sloppy to me. I don't agree with all the era folks in other SW threads saying this whole trilogy was a trainwreck from the start but it could have been a whole lot more cohesive it JJ had yes-and-ed with TRoS.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,135
Austin, TX
I feel like Lucasfilm kind of needs to start announcing some shit.
i was actually thinking considering how hard it is to get projects off the ground they need to stop announcing shit. stop announcing things early anyway. wait til it's an actual thing and maybe have production start first (although even this isn't a guarantee lmao) then have those rumours swirling a la that second season of rebels happening now, then finally announce it.
 

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,320
There is an investor meeting on the 4th of feb.. pretty sure they are gonna reveal the director there.

Its going to leak sooner than that tho.
 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
i was actually thinking considering how hard it is to get projects off the ground they need to stop announcing shit. stop announcing things early anyway. wait til it's an actual thing and maybe have production start first (although even this isn't a guarantee lmao) then have those rumours swirling a la that second season of rebels happening now, then finally announce it.

I agree. I think the Disney Plus launch didn't help as I'm sure there was pressure to announce a bunch of content to give people reasons to keep their sub after the initial opening programming.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
i was actually thinking considering how hard it is to get projects off the ground they need to stop announcing shit. stop announcing things early anyway. wait til it's an actual thing and maybe have production start first (although even this isn't a guarantee lmao) then have those rumours swirling a la that second season of rebels happening now, then finally announce it.

Most of the projects I mentioned are "actual things," though. The Rebels sequel started production two years ago and the first season is close to being in the can at this point. The Cassian show is being written and starts filming in a few months. The Aphra thing, whatever it is, started production last year and is being made right now. The Project Luminous books, comics, and video game (?) started production last year and are all in various stages of completion. The only thing that's a grey area is the 2022 film, whether it's High Republic or something else, but we were supposed to be getting a full announcement on that soon too.

All of this stuff is being made right now, behind closed doors at Lucasfilm. They've made the choice not to talk about any of it, and instead allow Duel of the Fates, TROS negativity, and Obi-Wan delays to dominate the conversation.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,135
Austin, TX
Most of the projects I mentioned are "actual things," though. The Rebels sequel started production two years ago and the first season is close to being in the can at this point. The Cassian show is being written and starts filming in a few months. The Aphra thing, whatever it is, started production last year and is being made right now. The Project Luminous books, comics, and video game (?) started production last year and are all in various stages of completion. The only thing that's a grey area is the 2022 film, whether it's High Republic or something else, but we were supposed to be getting a full announcement on that soon too.

All of this stuff is being made right now, behind closed doors at Lucasfilm. They've made the choice not to talk about any of it, and instead allow Duel of the Fates, TROS negativity, and Obi-Wan delays to dominate the conversation.
i get what you're saying about having more control over the narrative. but i guess my point was to not even have announced the cassian show for example cause at this point, seeing as how things are run at LF, even that doesn't feel like a sure thing. even though it should be cause it's an actual thing. I'd rather be bummed about a rumour not coming to fruition than an actual thing getting canned.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
I don't know how much I'd say "spite" but certainly having creative differences and not playing nice with the previous entry. One Sciretta's other tweets used the term "course correction" which I don't think the trilogy needed but Rian took TFA's setup and gently took it in one direction and it really feels to me like JJ took TRoS and wrenched it far in the other direction to fill in what he would have done with the middle chapter. It just makes it all seem so sloppy to me. I don't agree with all the era folks in other SW threads saying this whole trilogy was a trainwreck from the start but it could have been a whole lot more cohesive it JJ had yes-and-ed with TRoS.
While I'm skeptical at how much better Duel of the Fates would've been as the trilogy closer, it certainly feels like more of a "yes, and" continuation of the previous two films than TROS did.

I also wonder if having a separate director, whether it was Trevorrow or someone else, for IX would've helped given the trilogy overall a more cohesive feel? Might sound strange to consider three movies by three people as feeling more consistent, but it would've avoided this tug-of-war feeling that you get from having just two directors.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
Most of the projects I mentioned are "actual things," though. The Rebels sequel started production two years ago and the first season is close to being in the can at this point. The Cassian show is being written and starts filming in a few months. The Aphra thing, whatever it is, started production last year and is being made right now. The Project Luminous books, comics, and video game (?) started production last year and are all in various stages of completion. The only thing that's a grey area is the 2022 film, whether it's High Republic or something else, but we were supposed to be getting a full announcement on that soon too.

All of this stuff is being made right now, behind closed doors at Lucasfilm. They've made the choice not to talk about any of it, and instead allow Duel of the Fates, TROS negativity, and Obi-Wan delays to dominate the conversation.

Edit: NVM reading too fast!
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
In other news:

ztqhmhh6xkc41.png


In his quest to destroy everyone who hid the existence of his son, Luke Skywalker, from him, Darth Vader has formed an unlikely partnership with an eerie shadow from his previous life.
• Now they return to Naboo where a powerful new host of vengeful ghosts awaits them.
• Delve deeper into Vader's past than you thought possible with this shocking tale of tragedy and revenge!

I'm guessing that's Sabe, Padme's handmaiden who is investigating her death. Very interesting premise for a story.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
I don't know how much I'd say "spite" but certainly having creative differences and not playing nice with the previous entry. One Sciretta's other tweets used the term "course correction" which I don't think the trilogy needed but Rian took TFA's setup and gently took it in one direction and it really feels to me like JJ took TRoS and wrenched it far in the other direction to fill in what he would have done with the middle chapter. It just makes it all seem so sloppy to me. I don't agree with all the era folks in other SW threads saying this whole trilogy was a trainwreck from the start but it could have been a whole lot more cohesive it JJ had yes-and-ed with TRoS.

To me, TFA and TLJ are two excellent movies in what was shaping up a wonderful Star Wars trilogy, right up until TROS came along and sank the whole thing. I've never bought into the narrative that TLJ ignored TFA, or whatever the complaint is; to me that just isn't supported by reality at all and those movies work together perfectly. I'll still watch and enjoy TFA and TLJ many more times over my lifetime, but when I look back at all the time I've spent stanning for the Sequel Trilogy and defending it in the face of all the negativity over the last few years and I just think... I don't know, TROS kind of broke me. Like I want to say "It's only TROS, the other two are great!" when I see people sandbagging the whole ST, but I just don't have it in me any more :P

Like you said, JJ didn't "Yes and..." in response to The Last Jedi. Whether it was because he hated that movie's decisions and wanted to see it all undone, or he simply didn't have any other ideas, or if he genuinely believes he did make a cohesive followup to TLJ, we're never going to know and it doesn't do any good to speculate on the man's thought process. I still just can't believe it was allowed to happen.
 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
While I'm skeptical at how much better Duel of the Fates would've been as the trilogy closer, it certainly feels like more of a "yes, and" continuation of the previous two films than TROS did.

I also wonder if having a separate director, whether it was Trevorrow or someone else, for IX would've helped given the trilogy overall a more cohesive feel? Might sound strange to consider three movies by three people as feeling more consistent, but it would've avoided this tug-of-war feeling that you get from having just two directors.

It's probably a case where bringing JJ back ended up being... well, not the best move. I only say that in it's very clear that he had a direction in mind for the trilogy but it wasn't his trilogy to make - until it was. I think it would have been better to give JJ control over the whole trilogy or to have gotten a third voice for the last movie (but probably not Trevorrow's).



To me, TFA and TLJ are two excellent movies in what was shaping up a wonderful Star Wars trilogy, right up until TROS came along and sank the whole thing. I've never bought into the narrative that TLJ ignored TFA, or whatever the complaint is; to me that just isn't supported by reality at all and those movies work together perfectly. I'll still watch and enjoy TFA and TLJ many more times over my lifetime, but when I look back at all the time I've spent stanning for the Sequel Trilogy and defending it in the face of all the negativity over the last few years and I just think... I don't know, TROS kind of broke me. Like I want to say "It's only TROS, the other two are great!" when I see people sandbagging the whole ST, but I just don't have it in me any more :P

Like you said, JJ didn't "Yes and..." in response to The Last Jedi. Whether it was because he hated that movie's decisions and wanted to see it all undone, or he simply didn't have any other ideas, or if he genuinely believes he did make a cohesive followup to TLJ, we're never going to know and it doesn't do any good to speculate on the man's thought process. I still just can't believe it was allowed to happen.

I think if he didn't think he was following up on TLJ, he wouldn't have included what elements he actually did.

And I agree with you on all this (including being a little broken by TRoS). I'm so glad there's lots of other SW content that clicks with me right now or I'd be really bummed.

I'm at a point where I look at TFA and TLJ as this nice duology and TRoS, while canon, as its own separate thing. I just can't say I see there being a cohesive arc to the three and that's mostly because Finn and Poe (even Rey to some degree), get so little character growth in TRoS. They're just kinda there in service of this nostalgic romp - which isn't inherently bad, it's just disappointing to me as a trilogy-ender and I don't think it's unfair to mentally separate it from the other two.
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
Honestly, if the Obi Wan show is only going to be 4 episodes long then I wish they would make it a movie again.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,887
When does Star Wars start to get fun to talk about outside of this thread again?
 

curb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,599
When does Star Wars start to get fun to talk about outside of this thread again?

I honestly wonder if it ever will. Star Wars talk is a vortex of nostalgia blindness, corporate hate, gatekeeping and tribalism (with some misogyny thrown in for flavor). I really wonder if can ever be redeemed.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
I actually like the broad strokes of where Finn and Poe end up at the end of TROS, the latter as Leia's successor in leading the Resistance and the former, in addition to being a Resistance general, rallying other Force-sensitive ex-stormtroopers to their cause. In Finn's case in particular, it feels like a full circle thing where Finn is now playing the Poe/Han role to Jannah who is where Finn was in TFA. The issue is, a lot of this stuff happens very quick and feels underbaked relative to Rey and Kylo's story. For as much people flipped their shit about Finn's subplot in TLJ or Poe's subplot, at least they have their own distinctive stories there. Poe and Finn often feel like they're in TROS to serve Rey's story, and while there may not be a literal reduction in screentime it feels like they carry less presence on screen because they don't have as much to own.

Re: JJ's feelings on TLJ, I think Poe even more than "Rey Palpatine" is a clearer example of how JJ either not liking TLJ, not understanding it, and/or just defaulting to his preferred takes from TFA. If the movie was going to build on TLJ Poe should've been more of a clear-eyed Resistance leader from the start, but until Leia dies he's still in the same hotshot pilot mode he was in TFA and much of TLJ, like JJ didn't read or get the deconstruction of that persona in TLJ. And then when the plot does fully hand the leadership reins to Poe, he's back in the cockpit again. I've mentioned this before but a small but meaningful change JJ could've made to the fleet battle would be to have Poe calling the shots for the battle from the Tantive IV, being less of a Lando/Wedge and more of an Ackbar figure.

When does Star Wars start to get fun to talk about outside of this thread again?

When has Star Wars ever been fun to talk about online though? I don't think the prequels are good movies but the 'people vs. George Lucas', 'raped my childhood' tenor to that whole discussion for years was at best super obnoxious and repetitive.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Vader is auditioning Sabe to be his new female sidekick because the last two didn't work out that well.