Star Wars sidelines Kelly Marie Tran (OPEN TRoS SPOILERS)

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
You can make a lot of claims about Abrams’ work here. It’s too referential to the original movies, it’s poorly written, etc. but I’ll say again. Pretending like that all automatically amounts to “listened to racist internet shitlords and just gave them what they wanted” is a bridge too far.
You can argue that he gave racist internet shitlords what they wanted because it was what he wanted as well, but, whether deliberately or coincidentally, he absolutely gave racist internet shitlords what they wanted.
 

Spyder_Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,470
You know a draft can easily be written in a day? Would make sense to write a draft for the ST before writing the script for the first one. Daisy Ridley is a better source on this and it doesn’t sound unlikely at all.
JJ never wrote any draft to begin with and he's said this several times. They already had VIII and IX's directors in place before Force Awakens came out.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
Quote from KMT before she'd seen the final cut of the movie, excited about how she got to share scenes with Daisy Ridley:



They never meet in the final cut, of course. Rose basically just looks at a blueprint for the whole movie.
That's really depressing. Feels like they just discarded her, and cut anything that would have helped the character or strengthened her bond with the rest of the cast. I feel bad for the actress and all the people that had hoped she and her character would be treated well in this movie.
 

Doober

The Fallen
Jun 10, 2018
3,897
You can argue that he gave racist internet shitlords what they wanted because it was what he wanted as well, but, whether deliberately or coincidentally, he absolutely gave racist internet shitlords what they wanted.
Should movies only be made with a mind to avoid doing anything that may tangentially please bad people?

Was the only right answer here to give a weak character more screentime just to piss some dickheads off?
 

nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,459
You can argue that he gave racist internet shitlords what they wanted because it was what he wanted as well, but, whether deliberately or coincidentally, he absolutely gave racist internet shitlords what they wanted.
That's a bit of a stretch, because it's not like racist, sexist, anti-PC or anti-liberal shitlords are going to be overjoyed with characters like Finn, Rey, Jannah, Lando or the same sex couple(s) featured in TRoS etc either. In other words, with or without a more heavily featured Rose character, the movie is still a racist and sexists nightmare.

It's like people forget JJ literally made a mainline Star Wars movie in which the two key heroes are a black male and female character, so I'm pretty sure the racists and sexists still dislike or hate him and are not being pandered to.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,127
England
Weird how one of the rare explicit social critiques in th saga is also one of the most reviled parts.
That's 'cause it isn't a social critique. In a franchise that builds its message off hope and good overcoming evil, it's an overly cynical "both sides" moment that tries to tell us the Republic and the First Order are no different and the galaxy at large doesn't care who is in charge as long as it doesn't interrupt business.

You can't even argue that the point is DJ is wrong 'cause he scarpered off with his reward for betraying the good guys and we never hear about him or Canto Bight ever again.

Nor can you argue that it explains how or why the First Order was able to come into power - as Rise of Skywalker showed much more effectively, the First Order invaded and occupied planets, kidnapped all the children and indoctrinated them. They seized all the materials they needed for their fleet, killed anyone that challenged them and without any organised Republic military to oppose them planets were left to fend for themselves.

The real irony is that the prequel trilogy, especially Revenge of the Sith, has social commentary that's more relevant today than ever before but you won't see anyone bring that up. The Republic fell not with a sword or a gun, but a speech. Liberty died to the sound of thunderous applause, as Padmé so eloquently put it. One man turned a democracy into a dictatorship and the politicians welcomed it with open arms.
 

Garrett 2U

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,603
I thought she was an incredibly boring character with an incredibly boring plot line in The Last Jedi. So I personally didn’t mind that she was put into the background.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
Should movies only be made with a mind to avoid doing anything that may tangentially please bad people?

Was the only right answer here to give a weak character more screentime just to piss some dickheads off?
I made a statement of material fact, not a judgment of his character.

(Though it certainly couldn't have hurt this shitty film)


or the same sex couple(s) featured in TRoS
Okay. Either you haven't seen the film, or you're not arguing in good faith with this.
 

nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,459
Okay. Either you haven't seen the film, or you're not arguing in good faith with this.
What are you talking about? I have seen TRoS, and I stand by what I've written. The misogynists, racists, PC and Liberal hate crowd etc are not pandered to in this new trilogy, which is on the whole relatively progressive as far as massive Hollywood action blockbusters go.

On a side note, I often find that posters who leave out someone's entire post only to highlight one specific, usually out of context or misconstrued line, are the ones not arguing in good faith.
 
Last edited:

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,669
With how rushed this movie was already, did you really want them wasting time trying to fit in a disliked character?

The character Rose sucks, so she wasn't a part of the 3rd movie, that's really the long and short of it.

Nobody is crying about Jar Jar's diminished screen time in Episodes II & III!
Lmao, let’s compare Jar Jar to Rose.

The nerve to do that.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
11,496
That's 'cause it isn't a social critique. In a franchise that builds its message off hope and good overcoming evil, it's an overly cynical "both sides" moment that tries to tell us the Republic and the First Order are no different and the galaxy at large doesn't care who is in charge as long as it doesn't interrupt business.
It's definitely a critique of how liberals see themselves as better despite being willing participants and defenders of the capitalist status quo, in this case the war industry.

Don't think that falls under "both sides"-ing as it's generally understood, because no one is implying the Resistance is exactly the same as the First order. It's exposing the sytemic shit that keep people in povrety and slavery despite seemingly good intentions.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,443
You know a draft can easily be written in a day? Would make sense to write a draft for the ST before writing the script for the first one. Daisy Ridley is a better source on this and it doesn’t sound unlikely at all.
1. This never happened, I posted a video from JJ saying so.

2. Even if it did, are you seriously arguing that two sets up writers and directors for the next two films should follow two drafts that JJ would’ve scribbled down in under a day? Really?

Imagine being Trevorrow on set in 2018 and wanting to do something but couldn’t because the draft that JJ wrote in 20 minutes in 2014 said so.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,401
I feel like most of the hatred of Rose is an intersection of racism, sexism, and conventional attractiveness (i.e. if she looked like Daisy Ridley fewer people would complain)
No feelings just facts. People on Era have explicitly said if Veronica Ngo had the Rose role they wouldn't have minded the character. TLJ was just too much for the male nerd power fantasy genre where the only characters allowed are people you want to be/ can masturbate to.

Not saying if you don't like Kelly you're a weird male nerd but I've lost count of the amount of people who said "Rose's sister would have been better for the role." when the actress had no meaningful dialogue to indicate that/ screen time with Finn to know if they had better chemistry.
 
Last edited:

Ahhthe90s

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,264
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory drive-by in a thread on concerns of representation
Good, her character and story was so bad.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
11,496
Not saying if you don't like Kelly you're a weird male nerd but I've lost count of the amount of people who said "Rose's sister would have been better for the role." when the actress had no meaning dialogue to indicate that.
It's the "if I'm playing a videogame better stare at a hot womans ass for 100 hours lol" movie equivalent.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
3,179
It is interesting to discover that a character not being well-written is the fault of the character
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
Trilogy already had too many useless, throwaway characters. I can't fault JJ for focussing on the main protagonists.

...except he also introduced more useless, throwaway characters in TRoS. So.
 

uncelestial

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,824
San Francisco, CA, USA
Her character was awful and only served to rob agency of the black former co-protagonist, who "got sidelined" in TLJ so hard you could've cut him entirely and it would've made no difference to the plot.

Frankly I was glad she was gone and that Finn had a little room to breathe in RoS. I felt like in this whole trilogy the black audience got finessed, watching Disney say "nah" to the black Jedi lead AND the interracial relationship they kept teasing at. It was horrible to watch.

Rose had Anakin-tier cringe dialogue and was directly involved in Rian Johnson turning Finn into Jar Jar. So forgive me if I don't have any tears to shed, because by the way, she was in the movie, and the new love interest was at least designed to compliment, validate, and share experiences with Finn instead of constantly foil him.

What happened to KMT on social media, I'm upset about. What happened to this character? That's life. She was damaging every character and plot she touched and was poorly conceived from the beginning.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,318
It sucked all things considered, they should have at least give her something. She was one of the main characters of the Last Jedi and deserved at least a secondary story, at least to keep things consistent.

Not trying to take away from her situation but I thought it sucked what they did with Hux too. I was looking forward to see how these two would be at odds, trying to lead the first order. I thought it was interesting how Kylo Ren and Hux felt like two man children trying to mimic the empire, like they were radicalised, and it goes nowhere. They just bring Richard E Grant who I love as an actor, but he's just a generic empire stooge.
 

theBmZ

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,186
Yeah, the handling of her character was total bullshit. One of my biggest problems with the film. I really liked Rose Tico, and Kelly Marie Tran’s performance, and her back and forth with Boyega. But nope, JJ bows to shit head fans who don’t know the first thing about screenwriting, and retcon her into nothingness. A pat on the head, and a “you’re doing a good job here at the base, we don’t need you”. Oh but let’s introduce two new companion characters, and give them no development. Fucking hell man.
 
OP
OP
MinusTydus

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
2,656
Rose is 3 minutes as far as I can see. Unless I'm missing something.
You're missing something.

76 seconds =/= 3 minutes.

Even 1:16 is a fairly liberal appraisal—while I tried to be strict about only letting the timer run when Rose was actually onscreen, my definition of “onscreen” was generous. For example, I included the scene at the end where she hugs Chewbacca at the Rebel base, although it’s possible to argue that she wasn’t quite in the foreground of the action. I was so alert for any sign of Rose that I even included the part where she is only seen in (partial) profile staring intently at Poe while he speaks. -Violet Kim, Slate
 

ToddBonzalez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,418
Of all the shitty, reactionary story decisions that were made in TROS, this was the only one that actually made me angry. Tran got done dirty.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,513
You're missing something.

76 seconds =/= 3 minutes.

Even 1:16 is a fairly liberal appraisal—while I tried to be strict about only letting the timer run when Rose was actually onscreen, my definition of “onscreen” was generous. For example, I included the scene at the end where she hugs Chewbacca at the Rebel base, although it’s possible to argue that she wasn’t quite in the foreground of the action. I was so alert for any sign of Rose that I even included the part where she is only seen in (partial) profile staring intently at Poe while he speaks. -Violet Kim, Slate
Weird, IMDB has her at 3 minutes. Nevermind then.
 

JB1981

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,842
I mean, IMDB has the character screentime, the amounts are relatively similar. They are ultimately side characters, the final movies in each series is about the core characters.
And what does Lando do with his screentime? He gets the falcon and leads the assault on DS2 and makes the final blow. He’s also there in disguise at Jabba’s Palace and plays a role in saving Han. He has actual meaningful screentime. Rose has ZERO. Your screentime argument is nonsense