Lando was going to fill DJ's role in TLJ before they decided to create a new character. I'd rather he be left out of these films than be a traitor (again).
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
Lando was going to fill DJ's role in TLJ before they decided to create a new character. I'd rather he be left out of these films than be a traitor (again).
Oh my Christ if they had brought Lando back just to make him a cynical loser that willingly betrays the Resistance.... I'd have been fully on board with saying that RJ has an agenda against the old guard.
Why did they change it? Just for a new character? Because the reason is pretty important.
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When the director has to explain all his creative decision when the film is still playing in cinemas, you know the movie has some serious problems.
Lando was never supposed to be DJ. Rian Johnson toyed with the idea of giving Lando a cameo in Canto Bight but thought otherwise because you don't bring back someone like Lando and just make him a cameo. If you bring him back, you make him integral to the story and then he said he couldn't have been in DJ's place because DJ needed to "betray" Finn and Rose, and you can't do that with Lando.
Oh my Christ if they had brought Lando back just to make him a cynical loser that willingly betrays the Resistance.... I'd have been fully on board with saying that RJ has an agenda against the old guard.
Why did they change it? Just for a new character? Because the reason is pretty important.
https://theplaylist.net/star-wars-lando-calrissian-absence-20171219/
Yeah there really wasn't space for him in VIII unless if reinforcements were going to come at the end.
Bringing Lando back in IX would be good timing with Han, Luke, and Leia all gone and having just been in the Solo movie.
Well, that's 'cause Ackbar and Nien Nunb aren't really characters. They work as cameos because they're just puppets while you'd need to bring back Billy Dee Williams and like I said above, you can't just have him be a glorified cameo, he'd need to be important to the story like Han, Leia and Luke. Lando is much too important to be an Ackbar in this trilogy.
Yeah, I'd love if he came in with the Resistance. Lando's the type of dude who has a bunch of connections, I'm sure they could make him a general or something like that.
I'd like to ask for some help.
Firstly, I loved the Last Jedi. I think it's a great addition to the series and a much-needed game changer. But, there's a part of the story that I'm having trouble reconciling as believable. It's a pretty vital moment in the story that has worked for many others so there's a good chance that I'm just missing some subtleties.
We have a scene in which Luke explains to Rey why the Jedi failed, and how Ben turned (the half-truth version). The scene ends with Rey resolutely declaring that "Kylo Ren failed you. I won't." The subsequent scene in that storyline opens with Rey/Kylo's forceskype session in which Rey's simple-minded (but fair) hatred of Kylo is further complicated. Kylo basically goads Rey into further questioning her identity and her place by relating his own struggles to hers. Both abandoned and alone, they have a potential connection that disturbs Rey to the point that she jumps into the dark side in a vain attempt to prove him wrong.
All of this sounds well and good on paper, but I find it an awkward follow-up to the preceding scene in which Rey proclaims her status as Luke's student, with no apparent protest from him. That scene gave me the impression that their relationship as mentor/student had finally been cemented. Rey was on her way to "finding her place", which doesn't mean that she wasn't still full of insecurity and loneliness, but I find it hard to believe that she would be so easily baited by Kylo into straying from Luke. I even buy her going into the Mirror-Cave after that conversation, but her so quickly confiding in Kylo doesn't sit well with me as a natural progression in the story. It would make more sense that after her experience in the cave, her insecurities are reinvigorated, and that Luke provided no solace.
I guess where I'm getting at is that it feels a bit rushed. We could have used a scene or two to establish Rey's desperation so that her next call to Kylo could believably set up their connection, and her subsequent anger at Luke.
Again, I could be totally off-base about this. So if anyone can perhaps illuminate this part of the story for me that would be much appreciated!
Firstly, I loved the Last Jedi. I think it's a great addition to the series and a much-needed game changer. But, there's a part of the story that I'm having trouble reconciling as believable. It's a pretty vital moment in the story that has worked for many others so there's a good chance that I'm just missing some subtleties.
We have a scene in which Luke explains to Rey why the Jedi failed, and how Ben turned (the half-truth version). The scene ends with Rey resolutely declaring that "Kylo Ren failed you. I won't." The subsequent scene in that storyline opens with Rey/Kylo's forceskype session in which Rey's simple-minded (but fair) hatred of Kylo is further complicated. Kylo basically goads Rey into further questioning her identity and her place by relating his own struggles to hers. Both abandoned and alone, they have a potential connection that disturbs Rey to the point that she jumps into the dark side in a vain attempt to prove him wrong.
All of this sounds well and good on paper, but I find it an awkward follow-up to the preceding scene in which Rey proclaims her status as Luke's student, with no apparent protest from him. That scene gave me the impression that their relationship as mentor/student had finally been cemented. Rey was on her way to "finding her place", which doesn't mean that she wasn't still full of insecurity and loneliness, but I find it hard to believe that she would be so easily baited by Kylo into straying from Luke. I even buy her going into the Mirror-Cave after that conversation, but her so quickly confiding in Kylo doesn't sit well with me as a natural progression in the story. It would make more sense that after her experience in the cave, her insecurities are reinvigorated, and that Luke provided no solace.
I guess where I'm getting at is that it feels a bit rushed. We could have used a scene or two to establish Rey's desperation so that her next call to Kylo could believably set up their connection, and her subsequent anger at Luke.
Again, I could be totally off-base about this. So if anyone can perhaps illuminate this part of the story for me that would be much appreciated!
Huh? DJ didn't die, he left the FO ship before things started to blow up.
Yes. But you know they screw up every old character. If he were Lando, 100% would die.
Well, she went from telling Luke that he didn't fail Kylo but Kylo failed him and then she finds out that maybe Luke was lying all around about what happened that night and that maybe it was Luke that failed Kylo all along. She believes him enough that it kinda makes her doubt things and she goes into the cave, the place Luke didn't want her to go, to find answers. And then in the next scene she's talking to Kylo because at this point, it seems she actually thinks he might be telly the truth and he's the only one that she could talk about the cave and her feelings, since she couldn't talk to Luke about it.
I dunno, felt like a natural progression to me.
I'm talking about human beings as you can see. But who knows, the director may have left them and Leia alive for J.J Abrams.
I guess this hinges on her believing Kylo, which I don't really buy. Despite the fact that she might not think he's a straight up monster, she should be much more biased towards Luke's story given her impression of him, and the fact that he'd been pretty forthright, albeit harsh, with her up until then. Also, Luke explicitly warns her not to the mirror-cave. She does, and it only exacerbates her problem. That should reaffirm Luke's perspective, not turn her against it.
Another small quibble I have: what drove them to touch hands like that? Was it just the force? I guess I could believe that.
Thanks for indulging my random thoughts btw
I think one of the things that made me buy into Rey believing him is that he had been truthful to her. When she asks why he killed Han Solo, he doesn't lie, he just talks to her. When she calls him a monster, he doesn't lie or say she's the monster, he just agrees but you can tell she sees that maybe he isn't the thing she thought he was. She expects a monster but what she gets in Ben Solo, so by the time he opens up about what happened to him, I think it really does nah at her that maybe he wasn't lying and that maybe there's some truth to it and more so since Luke isn't being all that open to her.
For the hand thing, I believe it was one of these.
but because it was a Force connection, it was more powerful when Rey was actually able to touch Kylo like when Kylo got water on his hands.
LOL WUT?
You might as well tell me that destroying the engines isn't permanent because they can repair those.
Again, they KNOW they killed almost everyone who matters in commanding a ship by destroying the bridge. They KNOW they destroyed practically every fighter when the main hanger was exploded and MAYBE all their pilots and main mechanics.
ALL of this would fuck over any actual military vessel and all but stop the ship to do anything against an enemy.
It's like in a really bad cartoon that they DON'T press an attack and take advantage of this HUGE WEAKNESS like that, because of some really shit contrivance like "you're out of range" to save the heroes asses right after they got cornered. In a better cartoon or actually good movie, SOMETHING could come up, like another ship or fighters coming out of the secondary bay to stop the harassment of the tiny fleet.
If i were to nitpick, I'd say something about "if they were actually faster, they'd continuely move further away from the FO and eventually lose them", but we all know that physics work differently in the Star Wars movies. It's all about consistently of itself that keeps one's suspension of disbelief in check.
Kylo had a superior TIE Fighter, but he still had his wingmen that were in normal TIE Fighters, by all accounts, run of the mill stock laser fodder. One of those cannonfodders took out the main bridge.
There's nothing easier than shooting down a crippled ship, especially when that ship is the only one that can take out STar Destroyers? Why wait for the crew of the ship to take command of the secondary bridge? Even if they waited for them to run out of gas, they'd still have to fight that ship, which would be in full working order by that time.
The risk to the FO would actually be much higher in that eventuality. But nope, to save the plot of the movie, they had to pull back at that time of HUGE weakness.
Quality 80s cartoon writing.
Because the other movies were still new, so if they pulled something out of their ass "that's how it works in the Star Wars universe."
It's like how the Millenium Falcon was able to be chased by the Star Destroyers and actually gained on it after the battle of Hoth, despite the claim that the MF was one of the fastest ships ever and could outrun SD. The conclusion to draw is that Han Solo was just being a boisterous exaggerating ass, which fits with his character.
There's a consistency of the writing/logic through the OT and even PT, which TLJ fails at having in so many points.
Hmm, yeah, I think this perspective also follows pretty nicely from the interrogation scene in TFA. Her view of him, alongside ours, as " a creature in a mask " is disturbed by the emo man-child underneath. Also, she does see into his mind and his insecurities to an extent that we don't even know, so it would follow that deep down she knows he isn't just a monster. His violence towards Han and Finn would help reaffirm his "monster" status but deep down she knows it isn't true.
Aspects like this are actually part of the reason why I feel this movie actually retroactively enhances the story of TFA.
I agree. She goes from shooting him with her blaster to calling him a snake/monster to calling him a liar and crying over him killing his father to bonding with him after a single encounter with him after the cave bit. It all happens too fast and defies believability. That storyline needed a little more time for me to buy that she would so willingly confide in him after her prior actions toward him.
Briefly considering filling the existing DJ role with Lando before deciding against it because it completely violates the moral core of the character does not equal "DJ was originally Lando"
It's just an idea Rian toyed with while writing the DJ part, and he decided against it. The name Lando was never in the script. Please do try to be accurate.
He doesn't have any old friends to bounce off though
smh Star Wars writers
Lando, Nien Nunb, Chewie, and Force Ghost Luke steal the Falcon back from Rey and go joyriding.
They call themselves "Gold Leader".
I would actually love this idea, Force Luke is trying to talk them out of it because Rey needs to get off planet to escape Kylo, everyone else is drinking and having a fun time.
It's like you're not even a fan of the Star Wars movies.
First, the rebellion made anti-capital ship fighters with the B-Wings.
Second, George Lucas based his entire space battles stuff on WW2, where fighters were used to destroy a whole mess of boats. This is why in so much media (canon, noncanon, and EU) you always see fighters taking out capital ships, even Star Destroyers.
Third, secondary bridges were always around (IRL TOO). The reason the Executor was destroyed after the bridge was smashed is because the crew couldn't get to other bridge in time before it was too late. It takes a while for the crew to react to things like that, if they even know the bridge was destroyed in the first place (battles are pretty hectic like that).
You think you're cute, but if you noticed in my post, i said that ship has different roles. In RotJ, we assume it's used for an actual battle, so it's armed to the death like everything else. In TLJ they specifically called it a medical frigate, thus not armed.
Not that different from criminals who double back and hide in or behind police cars. It happens.
Is them hiding on the SD funny? It's smirk worthy and George Lucas was never above jokes like that. Still, that sort of manuerving is within the realm of what Star Wars presented. The fact that Boba Fett stays behind to see if they'll pops up shows that. He's a bounty hunter, a hound the Empire hired to find them and foxes double back. Poetry or whatever.
Man, it's not even that.
In the movie they literally show that a TIE Fighter can and did do major damage to a capital ship. Just like XWings did do damage to capital ships in most other media, even within TLJ.
So they didn't need to use a specific fighter type to take out the capital ships, because the logic within the movie shows that THREE TIE Fighters incapacitated one of the largest, most powerful ship in the rebellion.
Other types of fighters/ships just make it easier to do a specific role. They're not always needed, just like IRL.
So Poe's taking out the dreadnought's defenses and the bombers were like using a hammer to stop a clock. Kylo's and his two wingmen was a scalpel to specifically targetting vital locations and were very successful at taking out the spring and bell hammer from the clock.
They both accomplished the same goal, the stopping of the clock, but plot required for them to stop short of total destruction of the good guys when they were cornered, so the Calamari clock was repaired.
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BO performance doesn't matter, because everyone who hated it still gave LucasFilm their money, because that's how movies in theaters work.
There's a ton of SW fans who watched it and these same fans will likely go see the next movie even if they hated TLJ.
If you want to use performance to speak for itself, that would mean that a lot of people hated TFA and the new trilogy in general, because they didn't go back to watch TLJ, hence the smaller sales, huh?
For a more accurate sign of performance, you can see that the larger than normal drops in ticket sales are likely from negative word of mouth. But since this is a Star Wars film, you can't hold back the flood of fans who would still watch it anyway. Like me. Thought TFA was extremely mediocre, ALMOST bad, but i gave TLJ a chance because of the new director and hope he'd do a better job than Jar Jar Abrams. Rian was a failure at that and now i don't even give a shit about what will happen with the next movie, so you better watch the final movie in the trilogy more than once to make up for my lost sale.
I mean, nevermind the fact that this thread is full of random people just to share their negative opinion and the 3-5 same people trying to defend it for 300 pages across 3 threads. How was this reaction on the other board, when there were far more people going there than here? The reaction was faaar less negative. The threads were smaller and not as many were created. So that points toward more people being generally positive for TFA, if not ambivalent.
Plus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias
So you're going to have waaaaay more people coming in to come up just to say something negative, hence the 3-5 same people being so noticeable in vocally defending the series vs the hundreds of negative opinions from seemingly random nobodies.
You can call these people a vocal minority, but the general audience is more likely to speak up if they had a negative view. So to say it's a vocal minority or even major minority is an unknown, so using places like IMDB/RT/etc will point toward what the general audience's feel of the movie is.
I know that my negative views did prevent a couple of friends and relatives from watching this movie. With TFA, i only g ave them a "meh", so my indifferent view didn't influence them to watch it or not.
BTW, general audiences are as nitpicky as regular fans are. They're just bothered by other details... or maybe the same. You really don't know, but everyone can and is nitpicky, or rather... ahve different opinions, because that's what a lot of it is.
So stop trying to diminish people's opinions just because you don't agree.
If they didn't go to see it because of your opinion they probably didn't care much to begin with.
But that's their choice.
I also wouldn't use those sites for any trace of clarification. I mean, if you were to go around asking random people if they have an IMDB account to sound off on movies...
But that's their choice.
I also wouldn't use those sites for any trace of clarification. I mean, if you were to go around asking random people if they have an IMDB account to sound off on movies...
fuk that leave lando out, he is just going to end up dying a shitty death if disney brings him back.4
Lets just believe that Lando, after helping save the galaxy, retired as a general and is using his pension to drink mimosa's in some nice beach in the outer rim living that good life, not the shit life like they gave Luke
Based on what?
Disney doesn't write the scripts or direct the films.
This discussion continues to be epic and worth diving into.
And I continue to be baffled by people going to bat for the Maz exposition scene. When some prominent critics are going so far as to defend that in their smug, self-satisfied way saying something to the effect of it being "Fun, and I actually laughed. People are just wrong about this movie all across the board."
I feel like I saw a different film or there must be something wrong with me. For every incredible moment that I absolutely loved, it was almost immediately followed by some jarring "Wait, what?" moment that conflicts with the tone or undercuts the gravitas of the moment before it.
I don't think I've ever been more conflicted over a movie before in my life. Seriously.
And I continue to be baffled by people going to bat for the Maz exposition scene. When some prominent critics are going so far as to defend that in their smug, self-satisfied way saying something to the effect of it being "Fun, and I actually laughed. People are just wrong about this movie all across the board."
I feel like I saw a different film or there must be something wrong with me. For every incredible moment that I absolutely loved, it was almost immediately followed by some jarring "Wait, what?" moment that conflicts with the tone or undercuts the gravitas of the moment before it.
I don't think I've ever been more conflicted over a movie before in my life. Seriously.
They weren't star wars fans, so they didnt really care enough to watch it after i gave my opinion to them.
They wanted to watch something excting and i told them how i almost fell asleep and wanted to leave because of how dumb it got. The length of the movie also convinced them it wasn't worth the time to waste there.
Also, people can and do make accounts specifically just to hate on something. I know some people here have said that that's... i forget the term, but it's just to discount their opinion on the matter. Basically, the opposite of shilling.
So the better question is, "what did you think of the Star Wars movie", because they undoubtedly shared their opinion with someone or somewhere. IRL or online, it is blurred in this day and age. The amount of feedback is always going to point toward the general attitude for the movie.
Again, you can only look at these threads to see how many people have expressed a negative opinion vs the noticeable same people who try to deflect the criticism or the randoms who express a positive view.
Again, look at the other forum and how big those threads got vs these threads. And again, this board is smaller than the other board, so this also ponts toward larger than normal criticism all movies get.
It's a very clear sign it's more than just a vocal minority.
Look, I think it's the best Star Wars film.
But I'm so indifferent about the Maz scene. I don't think it hurts anything whatsoever, and I did find it amusing. At the same time, I can see why some wouldn't like it.
It's just so short and inconsequential, though. I think it's a fine method of introducing the "codebreaker" subplot as they do know Maz and you can imagine why she'd have such contacts.
I'm just so whatever about it. I don't think it's a bad scene, I think it makes sense, but it's not like anything I'd really talk about when it comes to what my favorite stuff is in the movie. For me it was just a tidy way to have Maz in it but not in some major way.
It's not bad. It's not wonderful. It's just there.
But I'm so indifferent about the Maz scene. I don't think it hurts anything whatsoever, and I did find it amusing. At the same time, I can see why some wouldn't like it.
It's just so short and inconsequential, though. I think it's a fine method of introducing the "codebreaker" subplot as they do know Maz and you can imagine why she'd have such contacts.
I'm just so whatever about it. I don't think it's a bad scene, I think it makes sense, but it's not like anything I'd really talk about when it comes to what my favorite stuff is in the movie. For me it was just a tidy way to have Maz in it but not in some major way.
It's not bad. It's not wonderful. It's just there.
I found it a very exciting film, it felt almost non-stop to me.
Also, if you're making accounts just to be negative, you'll forgive me if I throw your opinions into the dumpster full-stop.
Honestly I didn't mind it either, but I don't think it was necessary for her to essentially be in the middle of a fight scene while it was happening.
I think it was really disrespectful to both Lupita Nyong'o and Abrams. Johnson took a big shit on that character, in my opinion.
You didn't need Maz at all for that.
Sure, that's why I'm like, whatever. I think it was meant to be funny. I found it cute. I had a smile.
After what happened to her place on Takodana, I can imagine she's out in some kind of mess.
I dunno, again, it's just sorta there. A logical way to include Maz in a story that didn't need her but wanted to catch up with her a bit.
I disagree. I don't think Johnson was interested in catching up with her at all, and just felt like he had to shoehorn her in somehow because she was in TFA. That's how it felt to me, extremely forced and redundant.
What? How's it shitting on her character, Lupita and JJ to include her in TLJ? She didn't have a place in the overall story in TLJ but was brought in since they needed someone to give them information and it was a good opportunity to bring in Maz. Hell, she even vanishes midway through TFA, like, did they just leave her on her planet after The First Order destroyed it?
I can't see any reasonable way you could come to that conclusion to be honest. Maz wasn't a main character in TFA, and it felt more like an attempt to show Maz as a "can do" type person. She certainly had a pretty dominating presence of respect, I feel like it was an attempt to show how she gets that respect, but I felt it wasn't necessary. But your reaction feels extreme.
Yeah, like, Maz isn't even that important in TFA and she could have been left out of TLJ completely but to say that it was disrespectful or shiting on her character? Come on, that's crazy talk.