Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)

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Kirksplosion

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Aug 21, 2018
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Not sure the legitimacy of this so take this with as many grains of salt as you wish, but it sounds like an early draft of Trevorrow's script was leaked


This sounds way fucking better than what we got
Now I feel pretty bad that I was happy when Trevorrow was cut loose from IX (What can I say - I was NOT impressed with Jurassic World). This treatment, though obviously unfinished, is so much better than what we got with The Rise of Skywalker. Yeah, it has the added advantage of not existing in a state outside my mind, but just the basic plot and story beats alone fix so many of my issues with TROS. As written, it's so much tighter almost like it, I don't know, didn't spend half it's time retconning The Last Jedi. What a novel concept.
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
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I definitely prefer the version we got, but I do like the idea of a citizens’ uprising on Coruscant.
 

Osahi

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Oct 27, 2017
2,472
Yeah, some interesting ideas in that treatment. You can’t know for sure how it would eventually have turned out, but focussing the conflict on the new cast is definitely more interesting then the return of Palpatine
 

cognizant

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Dec 19, 2017
6,476
Yeah, I just read a summary of Trevorrow script on avclub, and....damn it sounds better than what we got.

Colin...

 

Osahi

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Oct 27, 2017
2,472
I have no idea if this would be better than what we got, execution is always crucial, but I’m not seeing much that would make Lucasfilm want to dump him. Maybe the Ben getting extinguished bit? but just film it 2 ways and test it out.

I like the Luke haunting Kylo bits most of all.
Apparently Trevorow was kind of a dick to work with? Might be some different opinions in where to take the story. Kylo’s redemption might be a thing they clashed on, as I feel that is something that was were they were going at from TFA.

Luke haunting Kylo makes me realize we never got a pay-of to ‘see you around kid’

EDIT: Leia having a bigger role and Trevorrow not being able to figure out what to do without a CG double might have been an issue too. And Book of Henry of course.
 
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KingSnake

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Oct 25, 2017
9,493
Not sure the legitimacy of this so take this with as many grains of salt as you wish, but it sounds like an early draft of Trevorrow's script was leaked


This sounds way fucking better than what we got
Man, this sounds so decent that I'm sad now.

Before Rey leaves, she and Leia have an exchange were Rey says she believes there's still good in Kylo. Leia is skeptical, but Rey believes in her Jedi Training. Leia: "You're not like my father or my brother. You're new. Whatever happens, remember the force choose you Rey. You're story isn't written by anyone else."
 

CrichtonKicks

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Oct 25, 2017
2,874
I think it was Book of Henry that killed Trevorrow more than anything in his Episode IX script. The Book of Henry was his movie top to bottom and was so thoroughly mocked that I can see it giving anyone doubt on his abilities.

Even with Jurassic World I feel like it was almost immediately reassessed downward. Treverrow got Episode IX when JW opened huge and got surprisingly positive reviews. Opinion on the movie never did a 180 or anything but I do think assessments cooled a fair bit within a year. People just really like the Jurassic Park concept and like seeing dinosaurs wrecking things on the big screen. JW didn't bring any unique ideas to the table or show a director with enormous skill in concocting a thrill ride. Its best attribute is that the movie delivered on the promised goods in a workman-like manner.
 

KingSnake

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Oct 25, 2017
9,493
For some reason I really like the idea of stealing a Star Destroyer. Imagine a space battle involving that and the TIEs used by the resistance
 

Fury451

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Oct 27, 2017
4,351
I never thought I would say this, but that script by Trevorrow actually sounds pretty decent. I think he’s kind of a hack when it comes to some of his writing, but I think that shows that he had way better and more consistent ideas of how to take this third film. Certainly way better than surprise Palpatine.
 

Seesaw15

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Oct 27, 2017
5,425
Not sure the legitimacy of this so take this with as many grains of salt as you wish, but it sounds like an early draft of Trevorrow's script was leaked


This sounds way fucking better than what we got
Man this is a bummer. This is how a baton pass between directors/writers is supposed to be like. Do your own thing but build on whats been given to you.

Kylo actually had things to do and an arc in this movie.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
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Oct 25, 2017
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Guy.brush

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Oct 27, 2017
842
What I like about that Colin script is the difference in world building compared to ROS. It actually seemed to try and build/show the bigger situation of the world it is set in.

e.g.
You have the Resistance actually trying to infiltrate and blow up Kuat Drive Yards, which has a proper history in the lore.
And in ROS, Palpatine just seems to conjure up 1000x Stardestroyers and pulls them out of the crust of Exogol.

Or how there is an uprising on actual Coruscant.
 

Radogol

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Nov 9, 2017
88
It's weird that Anakin doesn't appear to Kylo at the end.

Anyway, sounds much better but all of the potential endings so far lack an oomph I would expect from the climax of the third trilogy.
 

guiloahhhhh

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Oct 29, 2017
446
Not a bad script but still issues. No one has and I don't think anyone could write a movie that redeems TLJ and makes that movie a coherent part of a saga. When you talk about the failings of this movie it has to start with where Rian left everything and that's an almost impossible starting place. TFA was wide open in terms of what could be done at that point.

JJ came to save this trilogy not destroy it
 

JB1981

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,842
Not a bad script but still issues. No one has and I don't think anyone could write a movie that redeems TLJ and makes that movie a coherent part of a saga. When you talk about the failings of this movie it has to start with where Rian left everything and that's an almost impossible starting place. TFA was wide open in terms of what could be done at that point.

JJ came to save this trilogy not destroy it
 

Ether_Snake

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Oct 29, 2017
5,589
This sounds awful I don’t see how people could think this would have made a good movie. It’s similar to TRoS in how awful it sounds.
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
12,385
Not a fan of how Colin's plan sounds at all, especially Ben being totally evil and Palpatine's teacher.

It's like the version we got was tailor made for me. I really loved bringing back the Emperor and having Rey take the Skywalker name. The main thing I didn't like was killing Ben. And I kind of wanted to see Rey take the throne because of responsibility, but that couldn't have worked as the end of the saga.
 
Oct 8, 2019
876
Not a bad script but still issues. No one has and I don't think anyone could write a movie that redeems TLJ and makes that movie a coherent part of a saga. When you talk about the failings of this movie it has to start with where Rian left everything and that's an almost impossible starting place. TFA was wide open in terms of what could be done at that point.

JJ came to save this trilogy not destroy it
JJ might have not tried to destroy the trilogy but TRoS was easily the worst Star Wars movie ever made, Fleets just coming out of nowhere, negating the original trilogy even more than TFA had by revealing that not even being in an exploding Death Star could kill the Emperor, revealing that Snoke was something the Emperor created in a jar making not only the original trilogy seem to accomplish nothing but making the first two films in the sequel trilogy seem to accomplish nothing.
 

matrix-cat

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Oct 27, 2017
5,305
The thing is a lot of the stuff in the leaked script sounds awful, but when I compare it to what's actually in TROS I can't really say which one's worse.

Like, Kylo going to train with Sheev's heretofore unseen master is dreadful. Genuinely terrible idea. Taking Kylo from killing his master in TLJ to just going and finding a new master and then replaying the same story as Luke's training with Yoda from ESB; what do you even say to that? But then you think about what actually happens in TROS, where Kylo is basically there just to deliver exposition, puts the mask back on for no reason, has a redemption arc just kind of happen to him by outside forces and then never has any lines as Ben and it's like... would it really have been worse? (How is it that neither Trevorrow or Abrams could write a good story for Kylo?)

I don't think I would have been happy with Trevorrow's movie (and this is obviously not even counting the actual execution of all this stuff on-screen), but I'm also not happy with Abram's Episode IX, so... whaddya gonna do? At least Rose would have been in it. At least Sheev doesn't come back from the dead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
12,385
Like, Kylo going to train with Sheev's heretofore unseen master is dreadful. Genuinely terrible idea. Taking Kylo from killing his master in TLJ to just going and finding a new master and then replaying the same story as Luke's training with Yoda from ESB; what do you even say to that? But then you think about what actually happens in TROS, where Kylo is basically there just to deliver exposition, puts the mask back on for no reason, has a redemption arc just kind of happen to him by outside forces and then never has any lines as Ben and it's like... would it really have been worse? (How is it that neither Trevorrow or Abrams could write a good story for Kylo?)
In my view, Kylo’s redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it’s made him. It’s Luke’s final lesson to Ben.



And then in TROS, it’s driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.

A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it’s the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he’s the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.





So yes, Colin’s version would have been many times worse.
 
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SMD

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Oct 28, 2017
5,286
Not a bad script but still issues. No one has and I don't think anyone could write a movie that redeems TLJ and makes that movie a coherent part of a saga. When you talk about the failings of this movie it has to start with where Rian left everything and that's an almost impossible starting place. TFA was wide open in terms of what could be done at that point.

JJ came to save this trilogy not destroy it
How do you watch films so badly?
 

John Harker

Knows things...
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Oct 27, 2017
1,348
Santa Destroy
In my view, Kylo’s redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it’s made him. It’s Luke’s final lesson to Ben.



And then in TROS, it’s driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.

A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it’s the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he’s the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.



Yea. Kiss aside, I thought Kylo/Ben was handled pretty well this trilogy. Both him and Rey are great characters. Would watch more.
 

nazgul_hunter

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Oct 27, 2017
1,886
In my view, Kylo’s redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it’s made him. It’s Luke’s final lesson to Ben.



And then in TROS, it’s driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.

A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it’s the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he’s the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.





So yes, Colin’s version would have been many times worse.
What we missed is seeing him at the top of the FO / the bottom of his immorality. We get the weird slowmo scene, and after that he’s subservient to Palpatine... don’t get to see him make evil decisions that weigh on him to turn
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
12,385
What we missed is seeing him at the top of the FO / the bottom of his immorality. We get the weird slowmo scene, and after that he’s subservient to Palpatine... don’t get to see him make evil decisions that weigh on him to turn
I’m not sure seeing him being even more evil in the beginning of the movie would have helped the believability of his redemption arc. The main evil act he’s made that weighs on him is killing his father, as it’s been since the beginning of TLJ.

 

nazgul_hunter

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Oct 27, 2017
1,886
I’m not sure seeing him being even more evil in the beginning of the movie would have helped the believability of his redemption arc. The main evil act he’s made that weighs on him is killing his father, as it’s been since the beginning of TLJ.

Then you need something that effectively reminds the audience of this. I think you still need to do it over 2, 2 1/2 arcs, so he has to do something, and chasing after Rey, or just holding court at the first order isn’t that great
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
12,385
Then you need something that effectively reminds the audience of this.
The Last Jedi opens with Snoke telling Ben that killing his father split his spirit rather than getting rid of the call to the light like Ben expected, Rey questions him about it, it has Luke telling him that his father will always be with him, and the movie ends with Han’s dice fading away in Ben’s hands. Then in Rise of Skywalker his big redemption moment focuses on seeing a vision of his father forgiving him in what’s basically the inverse of the scene from Force Awakens. I’m not sure how it could be any clearer to the audience.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
3,784
Colin freaking Trevorrow, the guy behind Fallen Kingdom and Book of Henry, made a better script than JJ. Unbelievable.

TBH, I loved the first Jurassic World.
 

Transistor

Now there's one thing I don't understand
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Oct 25, 2017
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How sad is it that we live in a world where Colin Trevorrow wrote a better Star Wars movie than JJ Abrams. How the fuck is that possible?

That script sounds awesome as all hell compared to what we got. The only way The Rise of Skywalker could have been worse is if George Lucas wrote it (and that's still debatable)
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
12,385
The leaked story treatment sounds horrible, I don’t know how anyone can believe that it sounds better.

It murders Ben’s character, has the last of the Skywalkers die evil, and Ben would have had to have been fifteen when he killed Rey’s parents.

Duel of the Fates is perhaps the most fanfic-y title I’ve ever heard. Then there’s just random stuff like... "At one point Bossk the Bounty Hunter gets the beacon, and shows up to join the fight..." And Hux attempting to use the Force and having a collection of lightsabers. What? Bringing Palpatine’s mentor in as just another dark side teacher to Ben is awful while bringing Palpatine back ties the nine movies together.

It’s even worse when you consider how underitilized Leia is and this was written before Carrie died. We dodged a massive bullet not getting this story, if it really was Colin’s.
 
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matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,305
In my view, Kylo’s redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it’s made him. It’s Luke’s final lesson to Ben.

And then in TROS, it’s driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.

A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it’s the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he’s the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.
I kind of agree that that is the intent, I just think that a lot of this stuff is really poorly conveyed in the movie and basically has to be left up to generous interpretation because Kylo/Ben has so few lines and so little screentime. He gets almost nothing in the way of internal conflict on screen in the first half of the movie and either just delivers exposition or tries to turn Rey to the dark side again (several times). The scene where he and Rey Force Skype eachother from Passana is the closest thing to some genuine pathos with him, but of course he's wearing the mask so Driver has to do it all through voice over and you never get a read on how it affects Kylo.

I mean, right up until the beginning of the fight on the Death Star he's still explicitly trying to turn Rey to the Dark Side, unapologetic and unrepentant, but then Leia does whatever she does and Rey heals him back to life and bing bang boom he's Ben again. You don't see the internal conflict until the Han scene, after his 'rebirth' as you say, which is why I say it feels like the redemption arc happens to him rather than being a product of his own choices. The movie desperately needed some quiet soul-searching scenes for Kylo in the opening acts to give us a window into where his mind's at and show us if he was on the path to repentance. Perhaps it's another victim of the movie's breakneck editing and those scenes actually do exist (albeit on the cutting room floor), but as it stands in the final cut I just don't buy the arc.
 

Bor Gullet

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Oct 27, 2017
7,848
The leaked story treatment sounds horrible, I don’t know how anyone can believe that it sounds better.

It murders Ben’s character, has the last of the Skywalkers die evil, and Ben would have had to have been fifteen when he killed Rey’s parents.

Duel of the Fates is perhaps the most fanfic-y title I’ve ever heard. Then there’s just random stuff like... "At one point Bossk the Bounty Hunter gets the beacon, and shows up to join the fight..." And Hux attempted to use the Force and having a collection of lightsabers. What? Bringing Palpatine’s mentor in is awful while bringing Palpatine back ties the nine movies together.

It’s even worse when you consider how underitilized Leia is and this was written before Carrie died. We dodged a massive bullet not getting this story
I am really baffled with people saying the supposed Trevorrow story is better.
 

Crossing Eden

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Oct 26, 2017
23,216
Thing is there was no real need to "tie all the movies together" by bringing back Palpatine. This trilogy was about a new generation of heroes AND villains. The final movie needed to be about the new generation first and foremost. Not having them be overshadowed by an ancient final boss plot twist that quite literally comes out of nowhere to reveal that he's behind pretty much everything and that the characters never had any agency. The only way Palpatine ties things back together is in a LITERAL sense. In the same way that Jango Fett is the source of the clones, Yoda being best buds with Chewbacca, Anakin building C3PO, etc. tie the OT together. It just puts things and characters in a box that makes the galaxy feel incredibly small.
 

Drewton

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Oct 27, 2017
12,385
Thing is there was no real need to "tie all the movies together" by bringing back Palpatine. This trilogy was about a new generation of heroes AND villains. The final movie needed to be about the new generation first and foremost. Not having them be overshadowed by an ancient final boss plot twist that quite literally comes out of nowhere to reveal that he's behind pretty much everything and that the characters never had any agency.
The first six movies were all about Palpatine/the Sith vs the Skywalkers and the Jedi, I understand if not everyone agrees but for me it absolutely makes sense, if you’re going to do a sequel trilogy at all that’s meant to continue and end that same story, to say that’s the still central conflict of the Skywalker saga. The new generation was still the focus, and the main characters were already heavily tied to the legacies of the old characters as it was. And Ben realizing his lack of agency and how much of his life had been a lie was critical to his redemption.

I kind of agree that that is the intent, I just think that a lot of this stuff is really poorly conveyed in the movie and basically has to be left up to generous interpretation because Kylo/Ben has so few lines and so little screentime. He gets almost nothing in the way of internal conflict on screen in the first half of the movie and either just delivers exposition or tries to turn Rey to the dark side again (several times). The scene where he and Rey Force Skype eachother from Passana is the closest thing to some genuine pathos with him, but of course he's wearing the mask so Driver has to do it all through voice over and you never get a read on how it affects Kylo.
Now on that I do agree, bringing the mask back doesn’t really make sense although it could have if it was emphasized that Ben actually wanted to hide his face and doubt from the First Order.
 

PhaZe 5

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Oct 27, 2017
2,340
I mean, right up until the beginning of the fight on the Death Star he's still explicitly trying to turn Rey to the Dark Side, unapologetic and unrepentant, but then Leia does whatever she does and Rey heals him back to life and bing bang boom he's Ben again. You don't see the internal conflict until the Han scene, after his 'rebirth' as you say, which is why I say it feels like the redemption arc happens to him rather than being a product of his own choices. The movie desperately needed some quiet soul-searching scenes for Kylo in the opening acts to give us a window into where his mind's at and show us if he was on the path to repentance. Perhaps it's another victim of the movie's breakneck editing and those scenes actually do exist (albeit on the cutting room floor), but as it stands in the final cut I just don't buy the arc.
Yea, a large reason it feels kind of wack is because Carrie died. She was always supposed to be the catalyst for his redemption. It's the Han test, again, with Leia this time with the stakes at their highest. No lackeys to bail him out like in TLJ. Leia *physically* in the way of ultimate victory for The First Order. Kill her with his own hand, step over her body and nuke the resistance. Or fail to do so, and allow The First Order to be wiped out as a result.

With Carrie not being able to be there, JJ kind of did the best he could and it was alright. Ford helped it a lot.
 

KingSnake

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Oct 25, 2017
9,493
The last of Skywalkers IS evil. He does nothing to redeem himself in this movie except for reacting to "Ben!".

Also Ben is supposed to be good just because he's Leia's son? What kind of bullshit is that? All criminals have mothers, some of them probably even good mothers.
 
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