That's nice for him to say that in an interview.
It's not a confirmed thing in the movie though, so it's still up in the air.
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)
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It's not a confirmed thing in the movie though, so it's still up in the air.
I mean it's not explicitly spelled out for the audience it's pretty silly to argue for a different interpretation of that scene when we got clear confirmation from the commentary of what the intention was.
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Director intentions are immaterial. What matters is what we have.
What we have is a scene that can certainly be read that way, but can also be read as Ren manipulating the truth.
And that's good. That sort of ambiguity challenges us to think on and speculate about what characters are truly doing, who they really are.
But writers don't get to write a scene with some ambiguity and then say "No no no, THIS is the correct answer". If Rian wanted it unambiguous, he should have written it into the movie.
As it is now, it's more like this is just the interpretation that one viewer of that film has, which is no more valuable for any other for that viewer also being the director.
I can't agree on that. One interpretation isn't backed up by the writer/director and the other is, and that definitely at least adds more value to that interpretation.
Second time today since December. The film didn't feel as frenetic second time around (I was a bit tipsy first time lol). Probably the most egregious thing was... WHY did they crash land on Endor (it is Endor right, where the Death Star crashed)... there was literally no reason given why they crash landed the Falcon. They just do so it means they can't just fly straight over to the Death Star wreckage and thus split up the characters. Did I miss something?
The kiss still feels so silly. A touching smile between them, maybe a few words, Ben dies. The kiss is just so out of place. He still killed a bunch of civilians, even in this movie. Even if Ren"died" and Ben was brought back, meh it's just a bit weird.
The kiss still feels so silly. A touching smile between them, maybe a few words, Ben dies. The kiss is just so out of place. He still killed a bunch of civilians, even in this movie. Even if Ren"died" and Ben was brought back, meh it's just a bit weird.
Well, there is a simple test to prove or disprove that accusation. Do you have any reason besides that Rian Johnson is the author to priveledge his interpretation over another, all other things being equal?
Oh and sorry to double post but I REALLLLY liked how they did the force jumping and movement in this film. Especially on the Death Star battle, the way Rey sort of superman's a massive backflip. The way they've done the stunt work and effects work with that gave it an amazing look. It could've easily looked goofy but I really liked it. Far better than the really silly Jedi fast blur running we got in Episode 1 (and never ever again, like at the end where Obi Wan could've done that to get to Qui Gon and Maul quicker but he just ran at human speed instead.. hmmm).
But yeah really loved the force powers in this. Looked amazing and not over the top.
But yeah really loved the force powers in this. Looked amazing and not over the top.
Of course it doesn't show that. TLJ specifically showed Ben's view of how Luke was standing over him with a lightsaber drawn seemingly about to murder him in his sleep. The movie did the opposite of what you're saying and added another layer of tragedy to Ben.
No. No. NO.
Why do people always use this flashback when we know it is false? The crazy, murderer Luke is the Luke that Kylo portrays to Rey to manipulate her into joining his side. It's not what actually happens. The deeper questions is whether Kylo actually believes this POV to be true, but the answer is irrelevant because he NEEDS it to be true. He can't accept that Luke was a caring uncle that was trying to guide him and wasn't jealous of his power and trying to murder him in in his sleep. He needs the Hut incident to happen that way so he can justify his horrible actions. He needs a scapegoat in the form of Luke. This is why Luke knew he couldn't be the one to "save" Ben. Because Luke and Snoke could always be used as Kylo as scapegoats for his behavior, once they were removed in TLJ it should have allowed Kylo to confront the harsh reality of who he is and the choices he made.
Let's examine this, if Kylo really thought Luke Skywalker was the man pictured above then why did he also destroy his temple and murder all his students? Now, don't quote me some dumbass comics, those don't matter. The only thing that matters are the films. And, the films are clear that Kylo destroyed the temple and killed Luke's students. Nothing in TROS contradicts this. So, why if it was just Luke that was mean to him and he acted purely in self-defense, why did he need to go so far as to completely destroy his temple and cut down a bunch of kids? Why didn't he just return to his loving parents who'd understand him defending himself? Maybe, just maybe, it was never about Luke. Perhaps, this is how Kylo has always been.
I hate to compare Kylo Ren/TFO to the alt-right since TFA came out before the election of Trump and pre-dominance of the alt-right in the media's mind. However, TLJ is specifically trying to make allusions to the alt-right and confronting toxic masculinity. As a result, Kylo Ren channels incel characteristics. This is a man with loving parents. A person who came from wealth. A person whose family was renowned and respected. Yet, he's an angst riddled man-child who literally attempts to murder his loving parents, to kill those memories. Why? Well, we're meant to ponder on that before TROS and to me the answer was clear, much like incels and alt-right supporters, Kylo/Ben likely felt he wasn't given the respect he felt he was owed. He came from royalty, he's a literal Prince. But, I bet you that neither Luke, Han, or Leia treated him as such, at least in his eyes. They probably tried to raise him like he was equal to everyone else, to not give him special treatment. And, the idea of equality is poison to such individuals as they feel they were denied their birthright ie white supremacy.
This is why Kylo is so obsessed with Anakin's saber and the Vader helmet, he feels this legacy is owed to him. The power. The respect. The superiority. And, these are things that were denied to him by his family so that he could be among "equals." He likely loathe Luke because he wasn't treated as his special apprentice who all other students should bow before. Thus, he rebels and joins Snoke because TFO offers him what he believes he's always wanted, superiority. To be called Master of the Knights of Ren, likely meant a lot to him and his ego.
But, like all incels he doesn't want to be alone. He also wants to be loved. But, to him love is owed, something he demands, not something he earns. We see this as he yells and feebly begs for Rey to join him. However, he's unwilling to do anything to earn that love, he's unwilling to give up his thoughts of superiority.
TLJ sets up a possible path to redemption as he realizes what this path will ultimately lead him towards, solitude. Yet, this is NOT reinforced by TROS. It's completely abandoned and instead Ren flips 180 after seeing a Force Ghost/Memory of the father he murdered.
See above.
Again, I believe Kylo has to see Luke the way he does otherwise his whole internal narrative he built up to justify his actions fall apart. It's also why Luke had to remove himself from the playing board.
BossAttack , I actually agree with a lot of that. I care nothing for the comics especially when Ben specifically says in TLJ "I destroyed his temple", and the films are the only thing to me that matters. There is an alt-right-like element to Kylo Ren and the First Order. He does feel a sense of entitlement, especially to Anakin's legacy. But I do believe he genuinely felt cast aside by his parents and that his uncle wanted to kill him. I mean, I know Luke didn't actually want to kill him, but from Ben's viewpoint, to wake up with his uncle holding a lightsaber him is insane. It's not just a made up version he's telling Rey to manipulate her into joining him, it's what he actually experienced. That has to traumatize him. Yes, he then burns Luke's temple, but I don't believe it's just something he wants to do and he's looking for an excuse, it's out of a feeling of actual betrayal and hatred and bitterness resulting from that. As Luke says, "And the last thing I saw... were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him."
When Luke (seemingly) turns against him he totally turns himself against the Jedi and tries to commit himself to another ideology. Killing his father isn't something he actually wants to do or is looking for an excuse to do, it's something he feels he needs to do. Yes, Ben does want to hold on to his feelings of bitterness and hatred towards Luke. Unlike Luke, he's consumed by the past. But I think he also realizes how futile that is at the end of the movie. Yes, Ben does feel entitled to the Skywalker legacy, but he also hears Darth Vader's voice speaking to him, so why wouldn't he?
Again, Ben does find that he is no happier as Supreme Leader and with Luke and his father dead, and he does come to realize that his previous actions were wrong. His feelings of solitude are reinforced when Leia dies and he says it's too late to go back to his family. "However, he's unwilling to do anything to earn that love, he's unwilling to give up his thoughts of superiority." And we see that change in him when he gives up his life for Rey. Throwing away the lightsaber is symbolic of him throwing away the power of being supreme leader.
When Luke (seemingly) turns against him he totally turns himself against the Jedi and tries to commit himself to another ideology. Killing his father isn't something he actually wants to do or is looking for an excuse to do, it's something he feels he needs to do. Yes, Ben does want to hold on to his feelings of bitterness and hatred towards Luke. Unlike Luke, he's consumed by the past. But I think he also realizes how futile that is at the end of the movie. Yes, Ben does feel entitled to the Skywalker legacy, but he also hears Darth Vader's voice speaking to him, so why wouldn't he?
Again, Ben does find that he is no happier as Supreme Leader and with Luke and his father dead, and he does come to realize that his previous actions were wrong. His feelings of solitude are reinforced when Leia dies and he says it's too late to go back to his family. "However, he's unwilling to do anything to earn that love, he's unwilling to give up his thoughts of superiority." And we see that change in him when he gives up his life for Rey. Throwing away the lightsaber is symbolic of him throwing away the power of being supreme leader.
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I don't disagree with anything in particular about interpretting his actions through the lens of an incel/alt-righter, but it doesn't really explain to me why he is this way. Did Luke, Leia and Han never instill the values of democracy and equality into this kid? This movement didn't just spring from nowhere, it specifically comes from really bad societal problems we have, which aren't stated to be present in the SW universe. Maybe you can say that is inline with how the rest of the series doesn't really bother explaining it's political landscape outside of framing whose fighting who, but in this case, if this is going to be the root of a character, why Ben managed to fall so far when his parents are some of hte most noble people in the galaxy, it's....weird, isn't it?
Sluggo rulesI think he might have featured in another scene at one point, but not in the final movie. There's this released picture of him hanging out with Snap:
That picture is awesome. Better than both characters themselves in the final cut haha.
Snap dead. Do we have a confirmed kill list of everyone notable who died in the movie?
I mean you're basically asking why the alt-right is popular and gaining steam.
Often we're talking about individuals that do come from loving, well-off families. Yet, they feel isolated in the world and the alt-right offers them something, they offer them the belief that they are special. The idea that they are above everyone else and society owes them something more than what they were given. Again, I can see that being the case for Ben. His family likely did instill democratic values into him and part of that would include equality. But, it's hard to feel "special" when you are amongst equals. So, when someone like Snoke comes along and tells him he is special, that the galaxy does owe him something, that he has a birthright, that he doesn't have to pretend to be among equals, that could easily appeal to a young Ben Solo.
Star Wars is an allegory for real wars.! It's in space so the science can be analogous with religion. But also, politics. This is what makes Star Wars so good. Politicians are young hip children with light swords. They have mind powers. They blow up space ships. If only this was real life and not the epic JJ dream film.
I think is movie is trash, but goddamn does the music from the last trailer still give me fucking chills
Wonder what the purpose of the Oracle scene was supposed to be
Footage of the Oracle on Mustafar with Vader's castle in the background.
Footage of the Oracle on Mustafar with Vader's castle in the background.
So much was left on the cutting floor. What we got was an empty shell of a movie.
In this case I really doubt the Oracle would have added anything to the movie.
A partial list of soundtrack cues has leaked out. They come from a cut of the film dated November 11th, 2019. Music was still being recorded until November 21st, so this is not everything in the final film. This is the cues put in their original order, but not the order of the edit as of that November 11th date. The number before the "M" is the "reel" the cue was originally written for. In olden times that would be an actual film reel, in current times it usually just means a chunk of 20 minutes, which is roughly how long an old film reel was. The second is the sequence within the reel. Letters or weird numbering means there were revisions or changes. The original link includes the source table these titles came from with a bunch more information and some good discussion about the sequencing of the score and OST.
There are some great titles here. "Rey's Incredible Hand," "Big Ship Blows Up," "Poe and Girlfriend." I'm particularly tickled by "Daisy In A Veil" for Dark Rey.
There are some great titles here. "Rey's Incredible Hand," "Big Ship Blows Up," "Poe and Girlfriend." I'm particularly tickled by "Daisy In A Veil" for Dark Rey.
It looks like the beginning of the movie was completely restructured.
Man, they cut a lot of shit from this movie.
Well, Lucas has a history with the franchise of updated versions...
If they follow the precedent, I would absolutely pay again to see a longer cut!
If they follow the precedent, I would absolutely pay again to see a longer cut!
I have my doubts. Get the feeling JJ has washed his hands of the franchise and probably doesn't care to cut together another version, nor does Disney want to put anymore money into this movie.
If each reel is supposed to 20 minutes and there were 9 reals does that mean the movie had an approximately 3 hour run time in early November?
I could swear that the listed run time when tickets went on sale in October was close to the three hour mark.
What is interesting about the cues is the structure of the beginning agrees with that reddit rumour about JJ's cut being hacked and changed LOL where it starts with rey and kylo has more time on mustafar etc
It's so fucking good
The baby head looks like something from Persona
Star Wars: Why the Reylo Ship Is So Controversial
CBR articulating a bit of how I've felt about the entire Reylo thing. Even people who liked RoS seem to agree this was severely mishandled and it really bugs me on a personal level as I examine my own relationships and my new role as a very protective father to a girl who will grow up in a world full of "Kylo Rens".
CBR articulating a bit of how I've felt about the entire Reylo thing. Even people who liked RoS seem to agree this was severely mishandled and it really bugs me on a personal level as I examine my own relationships and my new role as a very protective father to a girl who will grow up in a world full of "Kylo Rens".
Yes it was 2:35.
Now we know why the beginning of the movie feels hacked to bits
I knew I forgot something in my post! I forgot to mention the spotting session. You're correct, as far as I'm aware, about the estimated run time judging by the cue titles. I had forgotten about that originally rumored run time. The movie very well could have been 2 hours and 35 minutes long in October. But that run time would be from the cut used during the spotting session. At some point months ago, J.J. Abrams and John Williams had a "spotting session" for the latter to see the film and begin to plan out his score. Judging by those cue titles, the movie was somewhere in the 2:40 to 3:00 range at this point. By November, a lot of editing had occurred and the movie was no longer the same as it was during the spotting session. The link I posted has a table showing the sequence and duration of cues as of that November edit. It is not the same as what I posted here. The sequence is broadly the same, but there are numerous cues shuffled around. For instance, there are reel 8 cues all over the place and some reel 1 cues have been moved near the end of the movie. Adding up the times listed in that table for the reels, the November 11th cut was at least 2 hours and 10 minutes long, not counting credits. The credits weren't finalized yet and the credits suite hadn't been recorded yet.
That rumor was borrowing from existing leaks that had the movie starting differently.
The Kylo redemption isn't a problem per se, but it feels like a checklist rather than a well thought out path. I don't think he doesn't reflect on his actions, it's just that the movie is bad at telling this story.
To me, it would have been far more powerful if he was the one responsible in bringing Palpatine back, having the galaxy at the edge of destruction and partially responsible for the death of Leia. A "what have I done?" moment where he sacrifices himself in a desperate attempt to undo his wrongs at the last minute
To me, it would have been far more powerful if he was the one responsible in bringing Palpatine back, having the galaxy at the edge of destruction and partially responsible for the death of Leia. A "what have I done?" moment where he sacrifices himself in a desperate attempt to undo his wrongs at the last minute
Finally saw the movie yesterday after dodging spoilers and memes for a month. There were plenty of mind boggling things going on, but when Kylo died I thought, "oh, shit this universe is finally done with this skywalker business". Then that old lady shows up. I was so hoping her answer would be a confident/content "Rey...just Rey" since it would be nice callback to the earlier scene. But, nah.
I finally saw it. It felt like I was watching ten different films all at the same time. It was still better than I expected with some good scenes, but then again it had about a billion scenes so by the law of averages some had to be at least ok.
I left the theater completely emotionless. I didn't think it was awful, but it left me a shell of a person.
I left the theater completely emotionless. I didn't think it was awful, but it left me a shell of a person.
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