The AV Club said they were able to verify that it is a real thing.
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)
- Thread starter MMarston
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The AV Club said they were able to verify that it is a real thing.
Now I feel pretty bad that I was happy when Trevorrow was cut loose from IX (What can I say - I was NOT impressed with Jurassic World). This treatment, though obviously unfinished, is so much better than what we got with The Rise of Skywalker. Yeah, it has the added advantage of not existing in a state outside my mind, but just the basic plot and story beats alone fix so many of my issues with TROS. As written, it's so much tighter almost like it, I don't know, didn't spend half it's time retconning The Last Jedi. What a novel concept.
Apparently Trevorow was kind of a dick to work with? Might be some different opinions in where to take the story. Kylo's redemption might be a thing they clashed on, as I feel that is something that was were they were going at from TFA.
Luke haunting Kylo makes me realize we never got a pay-of to 'see you around kid'
EDIT: Leia having a bigger role and Trevorrow not being able to figure out what to do without a CG double might have been an issue too. And Book of Henry of course.
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The guy who made The Book of Henry wrote a better script for IX than JJ Abrams and Chris "Martha!" Terrio.
Goddamn...
Goddamn...
I think it was Book of Henry that killed Trevorrow more than anything in his Episode IX script. The Book of Henry was his movie top to bottom and was so thoroughly mocked that I can see it giving anyone doubt on his abilities.
Even with Jurassic World I feel like it was almost immediately reassessed downward. Treverrow got Episode IX when JW opened huge and got surprisingly positive reviews. Opinion on the movie never did a 180 or anything but I do think assessments cooled a fair bit within a year. People just really like the Jurassic Park concept and like seeing dinosaurs wrecking things on the big screen. JW didn't bring any unique ideas to the table or show a director with enormous skill in concocting a thrill ride. Its best attribute is that the movie delivered on the promised goods in a workman-like manner.
Even with Jurassic World I feel like it was almost immediately reassessed downward. Treverrow got Episode IX when JW opened huge and got surprisingly positive reviews. Opinion on the movie never did a 180 or anything but I do think assessments cooled a fair bit within a year. People just really like the Jurassic Park concept and like seeing dinosaurs wrecking things on the big screen. JW didn't bring any unique ideas to the table or show a director with enormous skill in concocting a thrill ride. Its best attribute is that the movie delivered on the promised goods in a workman-like manner.
I never thought I would say this, but that script by Trevorrow actually sounds pretty decent. I think he's kind of a hack when it comes to some of his writing, but I think that shows that he had way better and more consistent ideas of how to take this third film. Certainly way better than surprise Palpatine.
Man this is a bummer. This is how a baton pass between directors/writers is supposed to be like. Do your own thing but build on whats been given to you.
Kylo actually had things to do and an arc in this movie.
Oh god they were able to verify it? Here's a link to the AV Club article
Colin.... I'm sorry
It's impossible to know if this script would have actually translated into a good movie (the leak does keep certain things vague) but man, this sounds like just about everything I wanted after Last Jedi.
Would you look at that...
This is a timeline were Colin Trevorrow can write some fine ass Star Wars
This is a timeline were Colin Trevorrow can write some fine ass Star Wars
What I like about that Colin script is the difference in world building compared to ROS. It actually seemed to try and build/show the bigger situation of the world it is set in.
e.g.
You have the Resistance actually trying to infiltrate and blow up Kuat Drive Yards, which has a proper history in the lore.
And in ROS, Palpatine just seems to conjure up 1000x Stardestroyers and pulls them out of the crust of Exogol.
Or how there is an uprising on actual Coruscant.
e.g.
You have the Resistance actually trying to infiltrate and blow up Kuat Drive Yards, which has a proper history in the lore.
And in ROS, Palpatine just seems to conjure up 1000x Stardestroyers and pulls them out of the crust of Exogol.
Or how there is an uprising on actual Coruscant.
Not a bad script but still issues. No one has and I don't think anyone could write a movie that redeems TLJ and makes that movie a coherent part of a saga. When you talk about the failings of this movie it has to start with where Rian left everything and that's an almost impossible starting place. TFA was wide open in terms of what could be done at that point.
JJ came to save this trilogy not destroy it
JJ came to save this trilogy not destroy it
This sounds awful I don't see how people could think this would have made a good movie. It's similar to TRoS in how awful it sounds.
Not a fan of how Colin's plan sounds at all, especially Ben being totally evil and Palpatine's teacher.
It's like the version we got was tailor made for me. I really loved bringing back the Emperor and having Rey take the Skywalker name. The main thing I didn't like was killing Ben. And I kind of wanted to see Rey take the throne because of responsibility, but that couldn't have worked as the end of the saga.
It's like the version we got was tailor made for me. I really loved bringing back the Emperor and having Rey take the Skywalker name. The main thing I didn't like was killing Ben. And I kind of wanted to see Rey take the throne because of responsibility, but that couldn't have worked as the end of the saga.
JJ might have not tried to destroy the trilogy but TRoS was easily the worst Star Wars movie ever made, Fleets just coming out of nowhere, negating the original trilogy even more than TFA had by revealing that not even being in an exploding Death Star could kill the Emperor, revealing that Snoke was something the Emperor created in a jar making not only the original trilogy seem to accomplish nothing but making the first two films in the sequel trilogy seem to accomplish nothing.
The thing is a lot of the stuff in the leaked script sounds awful, but when I compare it to what's actually in TROS I can't really say which one's worse.
Like, Kylo going to train with Sheev's heretofore unseen master is dreadful. Genuinely terrible idea. Taking Kylo from killing his master in TLJ to just going and finding a new master and then replaying the same story as Luke's training with Yoda from ESB; what do you even say to that? But then you think about what actually happens in TROS, where Kylo is basically there just to deliver exposition, puts the mask back on for no reason, has a redemption arc just kind of happen to him by outside forces and then never has any lines as Ben and it's like... would it really have been worse? (How is it that neither Trevorrow or Abrams could write a good story for Kylo?)
I don't think I would have been happy with Trevorrow's movie (and this is obviously not even counting the actual execution of all this stuff on-screen), but I'm also not happy with Abram's Episode IX, so... whaddya gonna do? At least Rose would have been in it. At least Sheev doesn't come back from the dead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Like, Kylo going to train with Sheev's heretofore unseen master is dreadful. Genuinely terrible idea. Taking Kylo from killing his master in TLJ to just going and finding a new master and then replaying the same story as Luke's training with Yoda from ESB; what do you even say to that? But then you think about what actually happens in TROS, where Kylo is basically there just to deliver exposition, puts the mask back on for no reason, has a redemption arc just kind of happen to him by outside forces and then never has any lines as Ben and it's like... would it really have been worse? (How is it that neither Trevorrow or Abrams could write a good story for Kylo?)
I don't think I would have been happy with Trevorrow's movie (and this is obviously not even counting the actual execution of all this stuff on-screen), but I'm also not happy with Abram's Episode IX, so... whaddya gonna do? At least Rose would have been in it. At least Sheev doesn't come back from the dead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In my view, Kylo's redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it's made him. It's Luke's final lesson to Ben.
And then in TROS, it's driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.
A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it's the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he's the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.
So yes, Colin's version would have been many times worse.
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The leaked script being garbage should come to no surprised given the director's other films. Yikes.
In my view, Kylo's redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it's made him. It's Luke's final lesson to Ben.
And then in TROS, it's driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.
A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it's the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he's the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.
Yea. Kiss aside, I thought Kylo/Ben was handled pretty well this trilogy. Both him and Rey are great characters. Would watch more.
What we missed is seeing him at the top of the FO / the bottom of his immorality. We get the weird slowmo scene, and after that he's subservient to Palpatine... don't get to see him make evil decisions that weigh on him to turnIn my view, Kylo's redemption arc starts at the end of TLJ when Luke shows him how foolish and useless his anger is, and how truly alone it's made him. It's Luke's final lesson to Ben.
And then in TROS, it's driven by the return of the Emperor which sweeps the rug under his feet and really makes him realize how much of his life has been a lie. Snoke, his grandfather speaking to him. He has a kind of rebirth when Rey stabs him and stops him from dying, and then is finally able to find forgiveness when Leia shows him the memory of his father. Fighting and defeating the Knights of Ren and facing Palpatine is him finally confronting and turning his back on all the manipulation. He dies giving his life for the one person left that he loves. It works for me.
A lot of people misinterpret the ending of TLJ as cementing Ben being evil, when really it's the opposite. He starts the movie kneeling to Snoke. Then he achieves his major goals to gain power - Luke is dead, he kills Snoke, and he's the Supreme Leader. And yet he ends the movie without any satisfaction. Kneeling. The same way he began.
So yes, Colin's version would have been many times worse.
I'm not sure seeing him being even more evil in the beginning of the movie would have helped the believability of his redemption arc. The main evil act he's made that weighs on him is killing his father, as it's been since the beginning of TLJ.
Then you need something that effectively reminds the audience of this. I think you still need to do it over 2, 2 1/2 arcs, so he has to do something, and chasing after Rey, or just holding court at the first order isn't that greatI'm not sure seeing him being even more evil in the beginning of the movie would have helped the believability of his redemption arc. The main evil act he's made that weighs on him is killing his father, as it's been since the beginning of TLJ.
Not if Christopher Nolan's High Republic trilogy has anything to say about it.
The Last Jedi opens with Snoke telling Ben that killing his father split his spirit rather than getting rid of the call to the light like Ben expected, Rey questions him about it, it has Luke telling him that his father will always be with him, and the movie ends with Han's dice fading away in Ben's hands. Then in Rise of Skywalker his big redemption moment focuses on seeing a vision of his father forgiving him in what's basically the inverse of the scene from Force Awakens. I'm not sure how it could be any clearer to the audience.
How sad is it that we live in a world where Colin Trevorrow wrote a better Star Wars movie than JJ Abrams. How the fuck is that possible?
That script sounds awesome as all hell compared to what we got. The only way The Rise of Skywalker could have been worse is if George Lucas wrote it (and that's still debatable)
That script sounds awesome as all hell compared to what we got. The only way The Rise of Skywalker could have been worse is if George Lucas wrote it (and that's still debatable)
The leaked story treatment sounds horrible, I don't know how anyone can believe that it sounds better.
It murders Ben's character, has the last of the Skywalkers die evil, and Ben would have had to have been fifteen when he killed Rey's parents.
Duel of the Fates is perhaps the most fanfic-y title I've ever heard. Then there's just random stuff like... "At one point Bossk the Bounty Hunter gets the beacon, and shows up to join the fight..." And Hux attempting to use the Force and having a collection of lightsabers. What? Bringing Palpatine's mentor in as just another dark side teacher to Ben is awful while bringing Palpatine back ties the nine movies together.
It's even worse when you consider how underitilized Leia is and this was written before Carrie died. We dodged a massive bullet not getting this story, if it really was Colin's.
It murders Ben's character, has the last of the Skywalkers die evil, and Ben would have had to have been fifteen when he killed Rey's parents.
Duel of the Fates is perhaps the most fanfic-y title I've ever heard. Then there's just random stuff like... "At one point Bossk the Bounty Hunter gets the beacon, and shows up to join the fight..." And Hux attempting to use the Force and having a collection of lightsabers. What? Bringing Palpatine's mentor in as just another dark side teacher to Ben is awful while bringing Palpatine back ties the nine movies together.
It's even worse when you consider how underitilized Leia is and this was written before Carrie died. We dodged a massive bullet not getting this story, if it really was Colin's.
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I kind of agree that that is the intent, I just think that a lot of this stuff is really poorly conveyed in the movie and basically has to be left up to generous interpretation because Kylo/Ben has so few lines and so little screentime. He gets almost nothing in the way of internal conflict on screen in the first half of the movie and either just delivers exposition or tries to turn Rey to the dark side again (several times). The scene where he and Rey Force Skype eachother from Passana is the closest thing to some genuine pathos with him, but of course he's wearing the mask so Driver has to do it all through voice over and you never get a read on how it affects Kylo.
I mean, right up until the beginning of the fight on the Death Star he's still explicitly trying to turn Rey to the Dark Side, unapologetic and unrepentant, but then Leia does whatever she does and Rey heals him back to life and bing bang boom he's Ben again. You don't see the internal conflict until the Han scene, after his 'rebirth' as you say, which is why I say it feels like the redemption arc happens to him rather than being a product of his own choices. The movie desperately needed some quiet soul-searching scenes for Kylo in the opening acts to give us a window into where his mind's at and show us if he was on the path to repentance. Perhaps it's another victim of the movie's breakneck editing and those scenes actually do exist (albeit on the cutting room floor), but as it stands in the final cut I just don't buy the arc.
I am really baffled with people saying the supposed Trevorrow story is better.
Thing is there was no real need to "tie all the movies together" by bringing back Palpatine. This trilogy was about a new generation of heroes AND villains. The final movie needed to be about the new generation first and foremost. Not having them be overshadowed by an ancient final boss plot twist that quite literally comes out of nowhere to reveal that he's behind pretty much everything and that the characters never had any agency. The only way Palpatine ties things back together is in a LITERAL sense. In the same way that Jango Fett is the source of the clones, Yoda being best buds with Chewbacca, Anakin building C3PO, etc. tie the OT together. It just puts things and characters in a box that makes the galaxy feel incredibly small.
The first six movies were all about Palpatine/the Sith vs the Skywalkers and the Jedi, I understand if not everyone agrees but for me it absolutely makes sense, if you're going to do a sequel trilogy at all that's meant to continue and end that same story, to say that's the still central conflict of the Skywalker saga. The new generation was still the focus, and the main characters were already heavily tied to the legacies of the old characters as it was. And Ben realizing his lack of agency and how much of his life had been a lie was critical to his redemption.
Now on that I do agree, bringing the mask back doesn't really make sense although it could have if it was emphasized that Ben actually wanted to hide his face and doubt from the First Order.
Yea, a large reason it feels kind of wack is because Carrie died. She was always supposed to be the catalyst for his redemption. It's the Han test, again, with Leia this time with the stakes at their highest. No lackeys to bail him out like in TLJ. Leia *physically* in the way of ultimate victory for The First Order. Kill her with his own hand, step over her body and nuke the resistance. Or fail to do so, and allow The First Order to be wiped out as a result.
With Carrie not being able to be there, JJ kind of did the best he could and it was alright. Ford helped it a lot.
The last of Skywalkers IS evil. He does nothing to redeem himself in this movie except for reacting to "Ben!".
Also Ben is supposed to be good just because he's Leia's son? What kind of bullshit is that? All criminals have mothers, some of them probably even good mothers.
Also Ben is supposed to be good just because he's Leia's son? What kind of bullshit is that? All criminals have mothers, some of them probably even good mothers.
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