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Stardew Valley Mafia | OT | Planting lies, harvesting bodies

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
My first impression now that wee has confirmed they didn't actually protect anyone tonight is that mafia may have avoided the kill as a really huge gambit hoping to sway the remaining townies into a mislunch and NKing to victory. XD
YES EXACTLY BUT I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, IT WAS REKI WHO DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY

NOT EVEN THAT IT'S LIKE THE WHOLE GAME ALL THE FLIPS REKI'S CLAIM IT ALL POINTS TO MAFIA!REKI
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,529
I'm kind of thinking that too but I want to be sure about this.

From what I'm seeing this is basically a reki vs blarg matter today and out of the two I believe reki more, but I don't want to fuck up my vote and cost town the game. ^^;
Don’t worry, it’s all my fault. I just figure everyone is here to post things. unless you have questions and stuff it seems like we may as wwell call it when you feel ready.
 

Reki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
Welcome, Loki! Maybe you can get to the top of the Postcounts in whatever time is left of the game.

Alright about this. So you say you Tracked weemad on N7, didn't see weemad move, and Zeke ends up dead. So you're insinuating that weemad can't be Mafia because you saw no movement from them the Night Zeke was murdered

Answer: you killed Zeke; you're lying about Tracking weemad or maybe you really did Track weemad because you're a newfangled dual-wielding ambidextrous can target 2 different people in 1 Night lone wolf upgraded for the hunt Mafia, totes.
Um, Blarg. This whole exchange started due to me mentioning a Ninja. The context in which I thought of it was as an explanation of a no result on someone on a night with a kill after three baddies were out. It's just that, a potential explanation for a theoretical scenario.

And so my question to you assumed mafia!wee for the exercise. So I ask you to step out of your case for me for a second to explain how would that result make sense without the presence of a Ninja assuming wee was mafia.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
YES EXACTLY BUT I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, IT WAS REKI WHO DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY

NOT EVEN THAT IT'S LIKE THE WHOLE GAME ALL THE FLIPS REKI'S CLAIM IT ALL POINTS TO MAFIA!REKI
I doubt that honestly. wee made a pretty good point about why it wouldn't really benefit them not doing a kill and I can't really see why they would do this either.

I guess i can see mafia not doing the NK if they think they have a convincing argument to cause a mislunch, but it still is a really risky gambit.

Welcome, Loki! Maybe you can get to the top of the Postcounts in whatever time is left of the game.
LOL I doubt that will happen but I can try .\ , /.
/s

I saw your comment earlier about me BTW (about making posts more confusing by posting a bunch of text) and no offense taken :p
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
[...] Um, Blarg. This whole exchange started due to me mentioning a Ninja. The context in which I thought of it was as an explanation of a no result on someone on a night with a kill after three baddies were out. It's just that, a potential explanation for a theoretical scenario.

And so my question to you assumed mafia!wee for the exercise. So I ask you to step out of your case for me for a second to explain how would that result make sense without the presence of a Ninja assuming wee was mafia.
You want me to be objective, alright; a Mafia!weemad means we DON'T have a Town Doctor in a game where we have a confirmed Mafia Strongman flip so what's the point of Maol's Role existing paradox student debt school closes end of thought exercise
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
So from what I understand about the remaining players...

-Blarg is the mayor and is a messenger that can choose to send a message every night if he wants to, and has been making weird gambits all game with them. Multiple people have backed Blarg up on being the messenger as his messages posted in the thread have been claimed to be what he sent. This means Blarg is a messenger for sure, but the alignment and if Blarg is the messenger is unknown currently.

-Reki is Alex a tracker who with the help of Rusty the dog can track people. However they are now out of shots and largely have gotten no results except for last night when they saw Blarg visit wee (which was backed up by both wee and Blarg) For this reason I will definitely believe that Reki is a tracker that has just had shit luck, but again unsure on alignment. Reki has also claimed that wee didn't move on a night when wee would have to had killed Zeke meaning they are town, which means that if we believe Reki's claim, then we can believe wee is town as well.

-I am Linus and I'm able to send a "mod confirmed town" message to one player during the game. Stan sent one to Reki who has confirmed his claim. I know I'm town so there's not much to say here.

-wee is claiming to be Harvey the doctor (I find it amusing no one figured out you were the doc considering XD I did realize that but i wasn't playing then so *shrug*) who is out of shots, can't self heal and therefore didn't actually do anything last night.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,529
-wee is claiming to be Harvey the doctor (I find it amusing no one figured out you were the doc considering XD I did realize that but i wasn't playing then so *shrug*) who is out of shots, can't self heal and therefore didn't actually do anything last night.
No, I claim to have been annoying last night.
XD

yeah me name claiming went without comment. It was weird.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
Good job Reki you made Hydro Canon work as scum and with the same fake-claim-except-it's-real being a Mafia Tracker like I was when I did it. Although you left out the Miller part which I suppose what was wrong with my execution of it. Also the looking at an actual Town Tracker the same Night they Track you. I suppose I can take some consolation in a version of a plan being vindicated after all this time.

I'm going to hollow out in advance now so the disappointment won't affect me, gg
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,529
I very nearly almost claimed to be Shane, a miller who works for Joja in the beginning....just because someday I need to do some idiotic gambit for no reason......but I thought, I already have been voted out when I was the doctor, so it wouldn’t be new.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
Good job Reki you made Hydro Canon work as scum and with the same fake-claim-except-it's-real being a Mafia Tracker like I was when I did it. Although you left out the Miller part which I suppose what was wrong with my execution of it. Also the looking at an actual Town Tracker the same Night they Track you. I suppose I can take some consolation in a version of a plan being vindicated after all this time.

I'm going to hollow out in advance now so the disappointment won't affect me, gg
So your reasoning for thinking Reki is mafia is based on the fact that you are completely convinced there can't be a town tracker due to all the useless roles.

However, isn't it completely possible for all the usless night powers to be there just to throw off the town tracker and keep the mafia powers hidden?
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
So your reasoning for thinking Reki is mafia is based on the fact that you are completely convinced there can't be a town tracker due to all the useless roles.

However, isn't it completely possible for all the usless night powers to be there just to throw off the town tracker and keep the mafia powers hidden?
So 3 Town players would be passively helping Mafia? I don't think so.

Mafia already has a Switcher on top of that, that's too imbalanced in their favour.

Mafia Tracker - assists the Strongman as the spotter, and is a counter to the Town Roleblocker in seeing if one of their comrades is visited & stopped then might be able to catch who interrupted their move. Also helps to sort through the Town's red herring movements to see who has an actually effective Power
Mafia Strongman - the muscle who kills Town players that the Tracker might've seen are Power roles, without fear of interruption
Mafia Switcher - with the help from the Tracker once they identify who is capable of moving at Night, they can also help set up a NK on a player without fear of interruption
Ordinary Mafia Goon - backup killer

This is balanced for game. Any other theory is not.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
weemad you're refusing to consider game balance in your vote against me. Besides that, I've already explained why I've played like I've played, and I did it all with pro-Town in mind. Too many players think chaos is only for Mafia to use but that's misguided. What's true is that chaos tends to benefit Mafia hence why it must be planned out carefully before creating. I believe every single instance of my Messaging has been justified as pro-Town. Your vote against me is lazy.

Let's say if I was a Mafia-aligned Messenger and Reki is really a Town-aligned Tracker; the Mafia team would look like this:

Mafia Messenger
Mafia Strongman
Mafia Switcher
Ordinary Goon

Yes it works, but it makes less sense than having a Mafia Tracker. Yes, in the context of this game's other Roles the Messenger adds to the noise the other Town red herrings do, but for evil, so it has a chance to blend in with that crowd.

Then pit a Town Tracker against that; what is its purpose? A Tracker is meant to sort out who is capable of visiting others; let's say they manage to see the Mafia Messenger message somebody, so they see them move on someone. Now what? What will a Town Tracker do with that info except report it to the public? So everybody will know now that the player who is the Mafia Messenger is capable of visiting, right? One "harmless" evil in the middle of a pool of harmless good.

But a Town Tracker cannot differentiate which is good and which is evil. So a Town Tracker's usefulness in this game's context to Town, ends there. A Town Tracker existing in this game's context is weak, and barely justified.

On the other hand, a Mafia Tracker:

Mafia Tracker
Mafia Strongman
Mafia Switcher
Ordinary Goon

Now THAT is a team-playing, true support Role in the midst of a team. Its existence in this game's context is doubly justified.

It can support the Mafia Strongman and Mafia Switcher in identifying priority of targets to kill; it can confirm who has Powers that actually affect/interrupt what Mafia does at Night in light of the Town red herrings. For example it could identify that the Town Commuter doesn't actually visit anyone if Mafia had missed a shot against them, so that helps Mafia know what they're dealing with. It can sort through players for Mafia.

A Mafia Tracker has more utility for their team than a Mafia Messenger in the context of this game. A Mafia Messenger would be the odd Power out, just acting by itself to cause soft chaos, it wouldn't really do anything to help a Strongman & Switcher. Not to mention the Switcher alone is a huge chaos-maker; a Switcher plus a Messenger is redundant. While a Mafia Messenger could be an effective ghost in the midst of red herrings, a Mafia Tracker can actually help to support their other two confirmed teammates this game. Their 3 Powers complement each other as a cohesive fighting team. It just makes sense.

You need to listen to reason.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
loki, I don't know what page it's on at this point but your predecessor Stan said one of the major reasons he Town-read me was because of the caveat in my Role PM that I cannot divulge any Alignment details in my messages to other players, if I happen upon any. Stan said that as a mod-confirmed-via-PM player that made sense because why would I have that caveat if I was Mafia-aligned because misguiding people with soft Alignment frames would be useful for scum, so me restricted from doing that leans my claim towards Town. Do you (still) believe this?
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
loki, I don't know what page it's on at this point but your predecessor Stan said one of the major reasons he Town-read me was because of the caveat in my Role PM that I cannot divulge any Alignment details in my messages to other players, if I happen upon any. Stan said that as a mod-confirmed-via-PM player that made sense because why would I have that caveat if I was Mafia-aligned because misguiding people with soft Alignment frames would be useful for scum, so me restricted from doing that leans my claim towards Town. Do you (still) believe this?
While I guess that's true, I also feel it could be possible that the mods put in that restriction so as to limit the role and mainly to prevent cases where the mods have to line about someone's alignment.

I still think it's possible for a scum messenger, though it might be weird for a scum team to not have any investigative powers (I'll have to see if that's common or not in this community.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
AND IF I WAS MAFIA WHY WOULD I BEAT MAOL TO DEATH WITH A SPOON AKA DECADES-LONG DULL BUS

HE EVEN VOTED HIMSELF OUT

IF I WAS MAFIA WITH HIM DO YOU REALLY THINK I WOULD SUBJECT A TEAMMATE TO THAT LEVEL OF STRESS TO THE POINT THEY'D WANT TO OFF THEMSELVES LIKE THAT

YOU KNOW I AM ONLY CRUEL TO MY ENEMIES
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
I guess Blarg has a point about the team balancing, but I think the mafia team might have been fine with not having a tracker, and i don't really get why blarg keeps thinking of these crazy conspiracy theories on how the scum is going to take him out.

I also don't really see why scum!Reki wouldn't kill anyone last night.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
Reki being a tracker explains their behavior and even Donna's behavior as both were probably trying to keep suspicion on them to avoid being NK'd with the knowledge that if things got dicey maybe they could claim tracker to avoid it.

Blarg has been pulling off a ton of gambits all game which seems to be very him based on what I have seen in other games with him, but the amount of defensive posts he has been doing this day phase has been weird.

I get it, part of the reason is because he's up for lunch today as the only other suspect besides Reki, but before even Reki made their claim he was theorizing that the last mafia didn't do the kill specifically to make him look suspicious (based on his incorrect posts that last scum has to choose between their power or the NK) and in general he keeps theorizing how scum is going to try and get him out.

Again this seems very Blarg so I'm not sure what to make of it.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
So wee, did you claim to have self healed last night just to see how Blarg would respond? I remember you last day phase (or at least after your doctor claim) saying you couldn't self-target so I was confused at first when you claimed to have (though at the same time I just assumed you were lying about not being able to self target.)
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
OH SHIT I SEE THE ANGLE.

We have Reki, Blarg, Stan, Weemad.

After Yesterday, it is clear that the living players' alliances would be:

Blarg
Stan

vs.

Reki
Weemad​

Mafia!Reki knows I can visit people to confirm my presence at Night. They can deduce that I won't msg Stan again because he supports me already.

They can also guess that I wouldn't bother visiting Reki themselves with a msg, because there's no strategic value in that to Blarg since they're already my called-out enemy.

So deduction ends up that I'd visit weemad last Night (which was true). Blarg would have the most to gain in confirming his presence to weemad.

So if Reki killed Stan and I visited weemad last Night to account for myself; it'd be painfully obvious that Reki killed Stan.

That's why Reki didn't kill Stan.

Reki wouldn't kill weemad because that's an instant 2 vs. 1 against them.

And Reki wouldn't kill Blarg because that robs them of their greatest chance to miss lunch. I don't think Reki would survive having to explain themselves to weemad and Stan.

That's it.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
I'm asking mostly because I went back and looked at what Blarg said in response to you self healing.

In actuality, I submitted a self-heal last night.

Who wants to work THIS out?
Did you get my message?
After Reki saw that I visited you last Night, they're making a calculated risk now in admitting/claiming to be the Tracker despite me saying that that would likely be the last Mafia.

Weemad, now that you admit you've self-healed; it's either Reki tried to kill you last Night, which concurrently would mean they're scum that can both Track and do their factional Kill the same Night because they saw me visit you, but failed to kill you due to your self-heal. Or, they totally refrained from doing the NK to opt for strategically doing their Mafia Track instead, and then saw me visit you.

Either way, Reki saw me for a fact there's no way around that unless that was a very good guess; which, is actually possible because it stands to logic that I would try to kill my doubter and leave Reki alive to vote out with Stan's help if I was Mafia. Reki could've deduced this move play out in advance.

So if you want to know why I chose to message you weemad last Night; Stan seemed to consistently Town-read me now so I felt safe not bothering to msg him again. You however seemed to be harbouring doubts about me so you were my best target to prove who I visited last Night. I didn't choose to msg Reki for obvious reasons because they're my top scum.

I thought Reki was going to kill Stan my biggest supporter last Night and it would be a 3-way between you, me and Reki, with Reki trying to sway you to kill me.




and now we're here because Reki thinks
Well that's embarrassing, was supposed to finish that last thought but forgot about because I didn't scroll down, oh mobile
Blarg asking if you got his message in response to your self-heal claim is interesting because it sounds like he's trying to confirm you got it to justify him visiting you.

What's more interesting is the second post which is this big ole theory on how Scum!Reki could have cooked a crazy scheme to frame him using their results.

It honestly sounds a lot like him being very defensive which he has been a lot this day phase.

It's amusing because he basically says why it was bad for him to make a NK last night and why he wouldn't have. If he had killed you, his biggest thread currently it would have shoved suspicion on him, but if he had killed Reki he would have lost his only way out of being lunched, and if he had killed Stan his "only supporter" he would have lost his only ally and risked Reki convincing you to vote him.

This makes sense why he would avoid a NK hoping to convince town to vote Reki.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
Reki I'm curious, forgive me and my sincere apology if you were indeed around at the time (memory amirite) but when weemad talks about me having a reputation for not killing, do you know what they're referring to? Humour me, I am vain
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
OH SHIT I SEE THE ANGLE.

We have Reki, Blarg, Stan, Weemad.

After Yesterday, it is clear that the living players' alliances would be:

Blarg
Stan

vs.

Reki
Weemad​

Mafia!Reki knows I can visit people to confirm my presence at Night. They can deduce that I won't msg Stan again because he supports me already.

They can also guess that I wouldn't bother visiting Reki themselves with a msg, because there's no strategic value in that to Blarg since they're already my called-out enemy.

So deduction ends up that I'd visit weemad last Night (which was true). Blarg would have the most to gain in confirming his presence to weemad.

So if Reki killed Stan and I visited weemad last Night to account for myself; it'd be painfully obvious that Reki killed Stan.

That's why Reki didn't kill Stan.

Reki wouldn't kill weemad because that's an instant 2 vs. 1 against them.

And Reki wouldn't kill Blarg because that robs them of their greatest chance to miss lunch. I don't think Reki would survive having to explain themselves to weemad and Stan.

That's it.
LOL so your whole theory is based around Reki somehow correctly guessing that you'd visit wee and choosing to take a risky gambit by not killing anyone?

Okay then.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
There is nothing else on my agenda Today but to explain why Reki is scum and to defend myself.

I literally have nothing to say about you two because both your claims are rock-solid.

Weemad as a Town Doctor in light of Strong!Maol makes too much sense.

loki, you are corroborated by another player as a mod-confirmed Town and Reki while I scum-read them, them corroborating you is NAI. And you can't both be scum at this point so it's not some kind of collusion ploy.

I literally have nothing else to do

Literally
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
LOL so your whole theory is based around Reki somehow correctly guessing that you'd visit wee and choosing to take a risky gambit by not killing anyone?

Okay then.
Yes?

Do you doubt Reki's capabilities? Have you not seen how deliberate, formatted and analytical their presentation has been this game?

They're clearly a data collector and a thinker. Reki clearly pays attention to the game-state. They don't post without thinking hard about what they're going to say. Have you seen them turn on a dime with their replies at all? Slow and deliberate.

What I have outlined is a simple deduction to make from the remaining players' stated motives alone. Reki. Worked. It. Out.
 

lokiduck

The Fallen
Mar 27, 2019
2,583
Washington
Yes?

Do you doubt Reki's capabilities? Have you not seen how deliberate, formatted and analytical their presentation has been this game?

They're clearly a data collector and a thinker. Reki clearly pays attention to the game-state. They don't post without thinking hard about what they're going to say. Have you seen them turn on a dime with their replies at all? Slow and deliberate.

What I have outlined is a simple deduction to make from the remaining players' stated motives alone. Reki. Worked. It. Out.
Another part of your theory is based on the fact that if they had killed Stan, it would be obvious Reki killed them, but I don't really agree with that either.

You visiting wee has nothing to do with the possibility of killing stan as the kill action is one movement and the message sending is another.

Scum!you could have easily killed Stan and sent that message to wee and I'm sure scum!Reki would and could have argued that if they choose to kill Stan whether they deduced you would message wee or not.

There's plenty of reason why scum!you wouldn't kill anyone, but there still isn't a real reason why scum!Reki couldn't have killed Stan.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,095
[...] (based on his incorrect posts that last scum has to choose between their power or the NK) [...]
I honestly don't remember or don't even think I've ever had the chance to experience being the final Mafia in a game so I actually literally don't know what I'm talking about with regards to that scenario's game mechanics. That's why I'm fumbling with that shit

I wouldn't openly speculate about that capability if i actually knew how it worked. I wouldn't introduce a weakness to my own position like that

I'm telling you I honestly don't know and also that's because I'm not Mafia this gane to even have a chance of knowing