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CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,694
Valve just posted a new Steam blog with a progress update for the Steam Store:
It's been a few months since we talked about how we want to approach shipping games with controversial content. In that blog post we talked about some of the tools we felt we needed to build and we thought it would be good to give you an update on where we are. We've done a number of things since that post, some which may seem unrelated, but if we are going to maintain an open view of what gets onto the Store, then you'll need good tools to find the games you want, as well as avoid the things you don't.

The first set of our changes focused on improving how you can find new games. We've added Developer & Publisher homepages so you can easily get from a game you love to others made by the same creators, or follow them if you want to be notified whenever they say or make something. We significantly reworked how our Upcoming Games Lists functioned, so they're much better at showing you upcoming games that you might be interested in, or upcoming extra content for a game you've been playing a bunch.

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A second set of changes was focused on improving how you can ignore things you're not interested in. In the past you've been able to ignore individual games or product types (like VR, or Early Access) you didn't want to see again. But now we've added ways for you to also easily ignore individual developers, publishers, and curators.

We've also improved the game tag filters on your account preferences. Previously, it was a list of 3 game tags that you wanted to see less of. We've now increased the number of tags you can list to 10, and made them into a harder filter - in short, the Store now assumes you want to ignore all the games that feature any of those tags in their most popular tags, instead of just using them as suggestions to our recommendation engine.

We did our best to ensure you can safely ignore swaths of games in the store, but still find them if you look directly via the search tool. If the game that we think you're searching for is hidden due to your mature content settings, we identify that and let you know in a safe way. For example, if you have your preferences set to hide mature games with violence, but you search for The Witcher 3, you'll see this:

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If there are games that your search should contain that you're ignoring for other reasons (due to its developer, or game tags, for instance), we'll still include it in the list, but we'll blur it out and when you hover over it you can see why it is darkened. For example, if you've chosen to ignore games by Valve, and then search for Left 4 Dead, you'll see this:

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A third set of changes focused on allowing you to have better control over the kinds of mature content you see. So far, the Store has allowed you to filter out games that feature Frequent Violence/Gore or Nudity/Sexual Content. After looking at the mature content in submissions we're receiving, and at some games that are already in the Store, we've added two more options. The first is a general Mature Content filter. We often see developers who tell us their game contains mature content, but not sex or violence, and you can now filter those games out if you wish. The second is an Adults Only filter, which allows you to filter out games that feature explicit sexual content.

We're also now requiring developers of games with violent or sexual content to describe the content of their game, and we're using that information to help you decide whether a game is something you're comfortable with. We think the context of how content is presented is important and giving a developer a place to describe and explain what's in their game gives you even more information when browsing and considering a purchase. When you're looking at the store page of a game with mature content, we'll display that developer-written description to you. We're also displaying it on the interstitial page we show you if you ever follow a direct link from outside steam to a game that should be filtered for you:

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Finally, we've continued our efforts in removing bad actors from the Store. Last year we made changes to Trading Cards to address the ways a small set of developers were producing 'games' that generated revenue without anyone actually buying and playing them. Recently we made more changes to address other ways these bad actors were continuing to do it. We've also permanently banned several developers of games that we felt fit the "straight up trolling" description of games we're not going to allow onto the Store. There's actually a surprisingly small number of individuals behind almost all of these games, and their bans have been a straightforward series of decisions, thus far. You can read more about the shorthand of "straight up trolling," and the process of making those decisions in the Q&A below.

With these sets of changes, we hope you have a better sense of how we're approaching building a store that works for all developers and players. There's still plenty of work to do. In our previous post we identified a range of things, from parental controls to tools for developers to manage their communities. In addition, some of the changes described in this post will require more options when we see new kinds of content in game submissions. Going forward, we aim to continue this strategy of shipping features as they're finished, and posting periodic updates as to the nuts and bolts and the thinking behind their development.



Q&A

Q: What about games that are already in the store that include mature content?

A: Every developer will be encouraged to update their game with the customer-facing descriptions outlined above but in most cases Valve moderators will going back through the catalog and making sure games are complying with the new requirements.

Q: What do you mean, in practice, when you say you won't ship games that are "outright trolling?" That seems vague.

A: It is vague and we'll tell you why. You're a denizen of the internet so you know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply trying to rile people up with something we call "a game shaped object" (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good"). Some trolls are trying to scam folks out of their Steam inventory items, others are looking for a way to generate a small amount of money off Steam through a series of schemes that revolve around how we let developers use Steam keys. Others are just trying to incite and sow discord. Trolls are figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this. But the thing these folks have in common is that they aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't that, they're probably a troll.

Our review of something that may be "a troll game" is a deep assessment that actually begins with the developer. We investigate who this developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking information, developers they associate with, and more. All of this is done to answer the question "who are we partnering with and why do they want to sell this game?" We get as much context around the creation and creator of the game and then make an assessment. A trend we're seeing is that we often ban these people from Steam altogether instead of cherry-picking through their individual game submissions. In the words of someone here in the office: "it really does seem like bad games are made by bad people."

This doesn't mean there aren't some crude or lower quality games on Steam, but it does mean we believe the developers behind them aren't out to do anything more than sell a game they hope some folks will want to play.

Q: Sometimes I see blurred out games on my Store front page. Why is that?

A: There are a number of sections on the front page that we fill with games, and to ensure the servers behind it don't melt down as everyone tries to use it, we do a lot of data caching. This works great for data sets that we can easily pre-compute - so if there's a game you shouldn't see due to your mature content filters, you'll never see it on the front page. But if you've chosen to do some more personal filtering of particular developers, or specific games, we can't do that pre-computation as easily. As a result, it's possible you'll see a blurred out game on the front page because your personal filters should cause it to be hidden. In practice, though, this will only happen if you've filtered out so many games that it can't find enough to fill a section of the front page, and again, like the search results, we'll blur that game out and tell you why.

Q: Why do you KEEP asking my damn age throughout the store?

A: We're with you on this. Unfortunately, many rating agencies have rules that stipulate that we cannot save your age for longer than a single browsing session. It's frustrating, but know we're filling out those age gates too.
 

Mondy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,456
Good. All the politically motivated shovelware trash will disappear back into the swamps
 

Ja-

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,028
Sounds good.

Wonder how the store will look if you ignore all devs/pubs.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,912
Q: Why do you KEEP asking my damn age throughout the store?

A: We're with you on this. Unfortunately, many rating agencies have rules that stipulate that we cannot save your age for longer than a single browsing session. It's frustrating, but know we're filling out those age gates too.

Hah. I know that their hand was forced in this change but it's still amusing to read.

As for the actual meat and potatoes in this post: It sounds like some good stuff. I appreciate that they have presented this information to us. I honestly wasn't expecting a follow-up at all.
 

BrEazy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2
Idaho
This doesn't seem terrible off the bat, but dang they are trying so many things besides hiring people to do even the most minimal curation. I'll be interested going forward how this works out because curation, in general, is such a major problem on the internet.

Q: Why do you KEEP asking my damn age throughout the store?

A: We're with you on this. Unfortunately, many rating agencies have rules that stipulate that we cannot save your age for longer than a single browsing session. It's frustrating, but know we're filling out those age gates too.

This seems like something that really shouldn't be a thing? Like if I'm logged into my own personal account that literally no one else uses I should be able to set my age so I don't have to do this on every game page.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,558
Interesting changes, and a subtle but apparent admission that yes, Valve has to engage in some basic moderation, if only to keep troll/bad-faith games off the site.

But really the biggest thing here is an answer to why Steam stopped remembering HOW OLD I AM OMG THOSE AGE GATES WTF.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Q: Why do you KEEP asking my damn age throughout the store?

A: We're with you on this. Unfortunately, many rating agencies have rules that stipulate that we cannot save your age for longer than a single browsing session. It's frustrating, but know we're filling out those age gates too.
Don't we all love when the gov gets involved on our purchasing habits?
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
I like how they are dealing with troll devs. It seems one of the games people were having issues with was removed, I believe. Hopefully this means less homophobic and racist games on Steam.

Rh95C0H.png
 

Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,907
Finland
Sounds good to me.


Already ticked the adult only sexual content checkbox in my settings, it's unticked by default as you might imagine.

Also increasing the tag filters from 3 to 10 is a welcome addition, as well as making it a hard filter and not just a suggestion.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
Good stuff.

The age thing is odd. Not once has ever MS or Sony asked me again about my age, so why Valve is "obliged" to do it?
 

Andres

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,661
Somebody in the comments for that blog post is calling the ability to tick off mature content you don't wanna see "Self Censorship."

lmfao
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,595
I had a very, very long discussion with Valve at a roundtable at E3. I'm very happy to see they listened to some things we suggested as a group, and I appreciate improved tools and continued action against bad-faith actors.

Perfect? No. Listening, at least? Yes. If you're reading, thanks, guys.
 

Hexa

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Wait, does the presence of the Adult Only content filter mean actualy eroge will be allowed on Steam, or does it only mean stuff like Witcher?
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Huh, they removed some of the options when reporting games, it seems. Maybe they announced that in an update that I missed, but I remember reporting a game for "Hate Speech" last time we had a big thread on troll games on the platform. That option, along some others, seem to be missing.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,461
That Age rating answer makes total sense...

...If Steam wasn't the only online store with this problem.
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,198
Our review of something that may be "a troll game" is a deep assessment that actually begins with the developer. We investigate who this developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking information, developers they associate with, and more. All of this is done to answer the question "who are we partnering with and why do they want to sell this game?" We get as much context around the creation and creator of the game and then make an assessment. A trend we're seeing is that we often ban these people from Steam altogether instead of cherry-picking through their individual game submissions. In the words of someone here in the office: "it really does seem like bad games are made by bad people."

So instead of manually curating the quality of each game, they're manually curating the 'quality' of the developer? Interesting approach, and probably more efficient too.
 

Ionic

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,734
This doesn't seem terrible off the bat, but dang they are trying so many things besides hiring people to do even the most minimal curation.

This post is actually the first indication I've seen in awhile that explicitly says they in fact are doing curation. The second paragraph of the "outright trolling" question answer is about them curating. However, their goal seemingly isn't to curate games but to instead curate developers. It seems like the impetus for that way of doing things is from their findings that "there's actually a surprisingly small number of individuals behind almost all of these games". So, the solution is not to look for the bad games, but the bad people behind them. However, they seem okay with low quality very amateur games so long as the intent of the developer is to actually make a game for the purpose of being played and enjoyed, whatever low chance that may have of happening.
 

PC-tan

Member
Feb 25, 2018
1,321
this, I don't buy their answer because nowhere else has this issue
My guess is because technically isn't Steam a website to some degree that isn't just tied down to hardware like PSN,Xbox, or eShop?


Assuming that you are not signed in (just open up an incognito window)
https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/bayonetta-digital-version-switch
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/b...tion/btvspkf8htlk?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
https://store.playstation.com/en-us...smcid=pdc:shop-now:games:ps-playstation-store

They all ask for your age.

Now if you are signed into your account, eshop will still ask you, PSN does not ask you, and Xbox Live does not ask.

So I am not too sure about what 5taquitos means by
Yeah, this explanation doesn't make sense. I can view any PSN entry, even if I'm not logged in.

So Steam and the eShop as far as I can tell do the same thing (this is of course assuming that you are using a web browser and not on a N/S,Wii U, or 3DS. This is to make it more fair since Steam pages act like web pages and even have a URL for all of them that you can view on a web browser and they are 1:1)

It is interesting seeing that PSN does save your stuff as well as Xbox Live. My only guess (I know very little about the ins and out of Steam and websites in general and "laws of") is that it's just easier to do this instead of having Steam remember for you since they don't want the servers to melt (have servers remember less info? but then again wouldn't that just be a small amount of information compared to what else is on their servers?)
 

Amiablepercy

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
3,587
California

Deleted member 9857

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,977
My guess is because technically isn't Steam a website to some degree that isn't just tied down to hardware like PSN,Xbox, or eShop?


Assuming that you are not signed in (just open up an incognito window)
https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/bayonetta-digital-version-switch
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/battlefield-v-standard-edition/btvspkf8htlk?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0001-CUSA05855_00-GAMEACEMPIRE0000?smcid=pdc:shop-now:games:ps-playstation-store

They all ask for your age.

Now if you are signed into your account, eshop will still ask you, PSN does not ask you, and Xbox Live does not ask.

So I am not too sure about what 5taquitos means by


So Steam and the eShop as far as I can tell do the same thing (this is of course assuming that you are using a web browser and not on a N/S,Wii U, or 3DS. This is to make it more fair since Steam pages act like web pages and even have a URL for all of them that you can view on a web browser and they are 1:1)

It is interesting seeing that PSN does save your stuff as well as Xbox Live. My only guess (I know very little about the ins and out of Steam and websites in general and "laws of") is that it's just easier to do this instead of having Steam remember for you since they don't want the servers to melt (have servers remember less info? but then again wouldn't that just be a small amount of information compared to what else is on their servers?)

even other pc gaming sites don't constantly badger you for your age as much as Steam does though
 

Echo

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,482
Mt. Whatever
Wonder why this topic didn't take off, the original blog post from June turned into a firestorm. Now that Valve came through ain't nobody care lol.

Changes are great imo, I love being able to ignore devs wholesale. I hate those garbage bin VN devs who make like all those Sakura games. Ugh.

The age gate thing doesn't make sense to me at all, but I'm not privy to legal stuff so whatever. I think if you have a registered and confirmed CC or Bank account though you shouldn't be age gated. It's not like a bartender will ask to see your ID for EVERY drink right? Just the first one.
 

Ascheroth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,644
I've noticed the ignore dev/pub feature a few days ago, seems very nice. In general all those changes sound like positives.
The Developer/Publisher pages and the revamped personalized Upcoming page in particular are very useful.
 

Ascheroth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,644
Wonder why this topic didn't take off, the original blog post from June turned into a firestorm. Now that Valve came through ain't nobody care lol.
It's like more people care about shitting on Steam/Valve than they do about seeing them actually act up on the criticism.
 

708

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
Wonder why this topic didn't take off, the original blog post from June turned into a firestorm. Now that Valve came through ain't nobody care lol
That's because some people don't actually care about what's going on with Steam and Valve and are just looking for reasons to shit on them.
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,184
Denmark
This sounds entirely... reasonable? Those who want smut can get it, those who do not can make it invisible. And if a developer releases violent or adult content, but doesn't flag it properly, Valve gets angry.

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing if there's anything wrong with it. It just seems like how it should work.
 

Mango Polo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
486
It's like more people care about shitting on Steam/Valve than they do about seeing them actually act up on the criticism.
What an idiotic take. If there's a problem people will make noise, if there isn't people will carry on with their daily business.

Good on Valve, let's worship them rah rah rah!
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
Actual decent changes, wow I'm impressed.

Now the real question: do the floodgates open on explict sexual themed games since it can be blocked by the user?
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,902
Great changes.

Be lucky if this thread goes 3 pages since the trolls can't piss and moan about Valve atm.
 

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
Q: Why do you KEEP asking my damn age throughout the store?

A: We're with you on this. Unfortunately, many rating agencies have rules that stipulate that we cannot save your age for longer than a single browsing session. It's frustrating, but know we're filling out those age gates too.

Surely this has to be an overlook by one of Valve's lawyers. It shouldn't constantly nag you to fill out age form when you are logged in to your account.
 

Blade30

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,610
Well that ignoring feature is an improvement to the current status, limited of ignoring tags to three is way too small.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
I like how they are dealing with troll devs. It seems one of the games people were having issues with was removed, I believe. Hopefully this means less homophobic and racist games on Steam.

I have a lot of criticism for valve PRECISELY due to homophobic, racist shit in the store, but this certainly solves that issue enough. Might even use them in the future now. I'm positively surprised myself!