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Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Link to the full ruling: https://cdn2.nextinpact.com/medias/16-01008-ufc-que-choisir-c--valve.pdf

The UFC-Que Choisir won a major victory against Valve, the publisher Steam, the largest video game platform on the market. The association has obtained the cancellation of several clauses, including the one prohibiting the possibility of reselling dematerialized games.

This is the culmination of almost three years of proceedings. And a victory for the UFC-Que Choisir. In a judgment handed down on 17 September by the Paris Regional Court, and relayed by the Next Inpact website, the consumer rights association succeeded in obtaining the annulment of a number of clauses that Valve had imposed on Steam.

The most significant of these concerns the one that effectively prohibited the resale of dematerialized video games, i.e. products that are not linked to a particular physical medium (a cartridge or a disc for example). In the subscription agreement that Valve drafted for its video game distribution platform, provisions prevent this possibility in principle.

It is thus declared that the Valve account and the information attached to it "are strictly personal". This applies in particular to subscriptions, which refer to "rights of access and/or use of content and services accessible through Steam". These contents and services include video games, purchased virtual objects, game content, software or updates.

However, just as it is "not permitted" to sell or invoice or transfer an account's right of use to third parties, neither is it permitted to "sell or invoice the right to use subscriptions or to transfer them". In other words, you cannot resell dematerialized video games, even though you have the possibility to do so when it is a physical product.

EUROPEAN LAW TO THE RESCUE This is where the High Court comes in.

The disputed clause (1-C) has been rejected by the French courts, on the basis of European law, via European directives (Directive 2001/29/EC on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society and 2009/24/EC on the legal protection of computer programs), and on the case law of the European Court of Justice.

These two directives, the court wrote, "prohibit the possible obstacle that copyright protection could constitute by recognizing the principle of exhaustion of the distribution right, which "prohibits", if only by the interplay of contractual provisions [as, here, those set out in the Steam subscription agreement, editor's note], the free movement of goods within the Union. »

Exhaustion of the right is a principle according to which once a work has been sold with the author's authorization, the author no longer has control over subsequent resales. This allows the second-hand market, as individuals do not need to seek the prior agreement of the author to sell a particular property. However, this provision also applies to legally acquired dematerialized content.

In 2012, the European Court ruled that a rightful claimant is prohibited from opposing the resale of software. When it is sold, including by downloading, its purchaser is free to resell it: "Such a transaction implies the transfer of the right of ownership of this copy", if, "against payment of a price, a licence agreement[grants] the customer the right to use this copy for an unlimited period".

IT IS INDEED A PURCHASE

However, the court observes that the licence of a game is indeed purchased and not obtained within the framework of a subscription to the subscription of the said game. Indeed, this subscription mentioned by Valve "actually consists of a purchase, the game being made available to the said user for an unlimited period of time. It cannot therefore be a "subscription" - in the usual sense of the term - but the sale of a copy of a video game, made for a price determined in advance and paid in a single instalment by the user. »

The court went on to explain that the owner of the right in question "may no longer oppose the resale of this copy (or copy) even if the initial purchase is made by downloading". As for the software publisher or his successors in title, it is no longer possible to "object to the resale of this copy or copy, notwithstanding the existence of contractual provisions prohibiting a subsequent transfer. »

Of course, the court did not ignore the fact that, in the Intellectual Property Code, there is reference to a "material copy" in the case of exhaustion of the right. But for the sake of justice, this wording "must not be assimilated to the sole physical medium of the software, but must be understood as the downloading of the software from the website and its installation on the user's computer. »

The court thus brandishes another article of the same code, which states that "intangible property is independent of the ownership of the material object", which distinguishes the work from the material object in which the work is incorporated. Moreover, the Court continues, European law "in no way leaves it to the Member States to provide for an exhaustion rule other than that of Community exhaustion. »

CLAUSE DEEMED UNWRITTEN

In these circumstances, the disputed clause is "deemed unwritten" because of its unfair and unlawful nature. Valve cannot therefore in principle brandish it to prevent a player from reselling a game, which was then considered "second-hand". Its effects are considered non-existent. The clause will have to be removed and, among the court's decisions, the judgment will have to be posted on Steam for 3 months.

The entire judgment must therefore be accessible and activatable via the site's home page as well as on those of its tablet and smartphone applications. Valve has one month to comply with this request, from the day of the verdict, otherwise it will be liable to a daily penalty payment of 3,000 euros for each day of delay, up to a maximum of six months. Damages are also planned for the UFC.

Finally, the Court recalls that all the contractual offers of Valve, although under American law, and its Luxembourg subsidiary Valve SARL, "must be governed by French law when they concern users with a residence on French territory". Which, in theory, should lead Valve to foresee the possibility of being able to resell games on its platform.
Source: https://www.numerama.com/business/5...terdit-la-revente-de-jeux-dematerialises.html

Via

[mod edit: English souce here]

 
Last edited:

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
How does French law apply to other relevent parties here?

Steam obviously isn't alone here, you can't resell games on Xbox, PSN and Nintendo when you buy digital etc. Would this mean all companies would need to change their practices or does this not signify a change in how the law is applied there?

To be honest they may just pay the maximum fine and ignore the judgement and I expect an appeal.
 

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,394
The problem is there's no such thing as a "second hand" game code. It's every bit as brand-new for the person buying it the second, third, and fourth time around as it is for the first. Unlike Gamestop taking the shrink-wrap off a game there's zero degredation in value, meaning that every copy of a game sold in France is now potentially in direct competition with the publisher.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
I feel like I need this condensing into Galactic Basic.
Buying a digital game counts the same as buying physical, you buy a licence in both cases and it should be transferable just as buying a physical disc is.

The disc is your right to play, there should be a digital right transfer mechanism available for users.
 
OP
OP
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
How does French law apply to other relevent parties here?

Steam obviously isn't alone here, you can't resell games on Xbox, PSN and Nintendo when you buy digital etc. Would this mean all companies would need to change their practices or does this not signify a change in how the law is applied there?

To be honest they may just pay the maximum fine and ignore the judgement and I expect an appeal.
You mean European law?
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
The problem is there's no such thing as a "second hand" game code. It's every bit as brand-new for the person buying it the second, third, and fourth time around as it is for the first. Unlike Gamestop taking the shrink-wrap off a game there's zero degredation in value, meaning that every copy of a game sold in France is now potentially in direct competition with the publisher.
But that's only a perceived value.

Games discs are nothing more than digital tokens. The games are installed and updated online to the same spec as currently available. The disc is a representation of the license only.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,980
But that's only a perceived value.

Games discs are nothing more than digital tokens. The games are installed and updated online to the same spec as currently available. The disc is a representation of the license only.
Yeah, this pretty much.

Digital license resell is long overdue.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
You mean European law?
No I mean French Law.

This is a local French court case and the jurisdiction only applies to France. For it to apply elsewhere it would need to go up the chain.

Application of EU laws and interpretation still go via local channels unless if specifically sent to the ECJ which then applies EU wide.

The judgement is only relevant to France for now.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
Buying a digital game counts the same as buying physical, you buy a licence in both cases and it should be transferable just as buying a physical disc is.

The disc is your right to play, there should be a digital right transfer mechanism available for users.
The solution is for publishers and platforms to find ways to give better value and encourage you to want to buy new, or (yes) preorder. Banning competition isn't the answer.
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,889
So in other words... people should be able to sell the game licenses they bought? Or sell their Steam account?
 

rustyphish

Member
May 13, 2019
611
Man, this is an incredible law I didn't realize I wanted until just now

Imagine even beyond selling games, just loaning licenses to your friends once you're done with a game. Charge 'em a dollar or something so it's technically a sale.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
An odd rule to have a lawsuit about, considering the only current way it would be possible to sell a Steam game would be to sell your entire account with all its games. The ruling isn't to force Steam to create a resell method, just not ban the possibility.
 

dsk1210

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,392
Edinburgh UK
So can we now sell used steam codes, sell tunes we bought on itunes, sell our digital libary on PSN, Xbox live and switch, android apps we have paid for?

Surely this would effect every digital market?
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
i can't see this happening, i expect an appeal. Also would suck for someone to lose their acount and find all their games have been sold (?)
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
The problem is there's no such thing as a "second hand" game code. It's every bit as brand-new for the person buying it the second, third, and fourth time around as it is for the first. Unlike Gamestop taking the shrink-wrap off a game there's zero degredation in value, meaning that every copy of a game sold in France is now potentially in direct competition with the publisher.

What about boxed copies with the Steam key?

You can make a good case that removing the wrapping from the is the same as console games. The only difference is that the key is consumable by design, where the disc license is transferable.

Registering keys in and out is a rather common concept with software other than games. You buy a program, you usually get a floating key to be used on a single computer at any given time.

However, it is bad. The entire gaming market has evolved into the cutthroat sales and deep discounts based on the idea that keys cannot be shared or resold. The second you allow people to take turns playing Steam games is the second you ruin the current flow of the market.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
Fantastic news. Hopefully the first step towards giving customers worldwide the right to resell digital content. It is a fundamental customer right to do whatever they want with property they have legally purchased.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Man, this is an incredible law I didn't realize I wanted until just now

Imagine even beyond selling games, just loaning licenses to your friends once you're done with a game. Charge 'em a dollar or something so it's technically a sale.
Microsoft wanted to implement such a system with the XBox One, lending digital purchases to friends and reselling them, but got a ton of flack for it as a draconian DRM system because it required occasionally being online to update the license to make sure you weren't playing a game you had loaned or sold, so they dropped the whole system.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,176
Hull, UK
Fantastic news. Hopefully the first step towards giving customers worldwide the right to resell digital content. It is a fundamental customer right to do whatever they want with property they have legally purchased.

Yup. I appreciate it may not happen overnight, and may need some thought out legislation, but it's clearly becoming an issue that needs addressing given the inevitability of the all digital future.
 

rustyphish

Member
May 13, 2019
611
Microsoft wanted to implement such a system with the XBox One, lending digital purchases to friends and reselling them, but got a ton of flack for it as a draconian DRM system because it required occasionally being online to update the license, so they dropped the whole system.

To be fair, I think with their track history it's not a stretch to predict they'd find a way to create something more abusive than a eutopia of consumer rights
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
There s no need for draconian dem, just be it mandatory to be online together to complete the license transfer.

I like this judgement, even though I won t sell my games, this is great for students and lower incomes. Play one game at a time, forever, for 60 bucks ;) beats gamepass after a lil while.
 

Natasha Kerensky

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 18, 2019
262
Praha, CZ
Waiting for Steam to turn into the digital Gamestop. People can turn their "new" digital copies for a small amount, then Valve can resell that same license for a higher price as a "Used" digital license.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Fantastic news. Hopefully the first step towards giving customers worldwide the right to resell digital content. It is a fundamental customer right to do whatever they want with property they have legally purchased.
The crux of the issue here being what constitutes 'property'. Do people own the digital bits that make up their licenses on these companies' servers for digitally owned games?
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,166
Indonesia
Man, this is an incredible law I didn't realize I wanted until just now

Imagine even beyond selling games, just loaning licenses to your friends once you're done with a game. Charge 'em a dollar or something so it's technically a sale.
You can do that with Steam, in a way.

By making use of family share, you can let another person play games in your library. Just charge them before you pair.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
Yup. I appreciate it may not happen overnight, and may need some thought out legislation, but it's clearly becoming an issue that needs addressing given the inevitability of the all digital future.

Fully agreed. The industry has managed to handwave the issue so far by claiming that it sells "licences, not games" but it's bullshit and has always been bullshit. If you buy a piece of digital content you should be able to freely sell it to someone else.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,092
China

Ionic

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,734
Waiting for Steam to turn into the digital Gamestop. People can turn their "new" digital copies for a small amount, then Valve can resell that same license for a higher price as a "Used" digital license.

Devs are already annoyed enough at Valve. I don't think cutting them out of purchases of their own games will help.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
But this overall won't make games cheaper. It will just make new games more expensive and push GaaS and subscriptions even more.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,980
Being able to sell digital copies of games sounds like it'd be pretty cool. Could Steam end up making it though that you could sell a game through their launcher and take a cut of it like with inventory stuff?
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,333
America
I have advocated for this for years. Great news.

I don't mind Valve/sony/nintendo/apple/MS/epic taking a 10% cut out of every digital re-sale, same as what ebay does with physical. I don't expect them to provide and maintain a resale platform at a loss.

Take my 10% and let me resell my games. There is no excuse not to.

Furthermore, if I know I can resell my digital games, I will buy a LOT more of them. There are plenty of silver linings here.

Thank you France!
 

Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
To be fair, I think with their track history it's not a stretch to predict they'd find a way to create something more abusive than a eutopia of consumer rights
Which particular part of their track record are you referencing, out of curiosity? Genuine question, just wondering what gave you that sense.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Yes. Why wouldn't they?
Because they're not tangible objects that exist and you bought into the system knowing how it functions. These weren't hidden stipulations and at this point, among all digital delivery platform mediums, video games have way more alternatives than movies and music in terms of where to source your content.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
That has nothing to do with customer rights though. Even if it does lead to that, a customer's right to resell a product is fundamental.

Yeah it does.. no matter what rights you are championing a fundamental change in the ecosystem will have ramifications. Reselling digital games will hurt everyone's bottom line. It's naive to think this won't cause massive changes to publishers business model.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Reselling digital licenses is fundamentally at odds with not having DRM. Imagine if GOG had this: The amount of people buying, backing up, then reselling their games would be absurd.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
Very Interesting development. Same case was decided for valve in Germany, so I'd imagine this could be taken to higher courts.

Id love to to have Game transfer.

But if this stands it will have huge effects on while industry.
 

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,256
This definitely shouldn't happen.

The reason I don't buy used physical games is because I want a brand new disc and a case that hasn't been smeared by some disgusting person. If I could buy used digital games, why would I ever buy a new one? There would be exactly zero reasons to do so.
 

Dascu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,994
Valve can successfully fight this before the CJEU. They only last week had an Advocate General opinion forbidding the resale of digital entertainment goods such as eBooks: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f23dafac-33ca-4fb8-b597-9ec72b9234c5

Since 2012 the european court already ruled that you should be allowed to resell software, games and other digital goods.



Nothing really happened, so...
This is inaccurate reporting. The software license case was very specific to business software, I don't think you can make a direct extrapolation to games.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
Because they're not tangible objects that exist and you bought into the system knowing how it functions. These weren't hidden stipulations and at this point, among all digital delivery platform mediums, video games have way more alternatives than movies and music in terms of where to source your content.

Why does this matter though? Why does not being a tangible object affect the right to resell?

Yeah it does.. no matter what rights you are championing a fundamental change in the ecosystem will have ramifications. Reselling digital games will hurt everyone's bottom line. It's naive to think this won't cause massive changes to publishers business model.

Change can be a very good thing. Why do you assume that change would be bad?

That's what I thought when the refund lawsuit hit Valve like a bazillion years ago too.

The problem then and now is that there is no law that definitively settles the issue. That's why I said "if this becomes law". It's necessary for any decision to be enforceable on a wide scale.

It's in the contract and it's common knowledge at this point. You must understand that, whether you agree with it or not.

In most of the EU you can't put anything you want in a contract. If the contract contains illegal terms then those terms are void and can't be enforced.
 

prudis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
447
CZ
reminds me , what happened to the refunds of digital products ..... only like few of the companies implemented them , still no refunds on B.Net, Beth, Uplay, PSN, ....