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Steven Universe Future |OT| Here We Are!

KojiKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,444
And by the time she grew up everything was already shit.
It's made pretty clear, she never grew up. Up until the end, all of her decisions were selfish and childish. (I'd argue the whole creating Steven was amongst them) I don't think there is a single time in the entire series, including post meeting Greg where she ever took responsibility for a single thing. About the best you can say was that once she met Greg she started taking his feelings at least partially into account for her actions from then on, but never once did she ever admit to her past problems.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,550
Tampa, Fl
It's made pretty clear, she never grew up. Up until the end, all of her decisions were selfish and childish. (I'd argue the whole creating Steven was amongst them) I don't think there is a single time in the entire series, including post meeting Greg where she ever took responsibility for a single thing. About the best you can say was that once she met Greg she started taking his feelings at least partially into account for her actions from then on, but never once did she ever admit to her past problems.
She did never take responsibility for the problems she caused, that much I agree with you.

I think she realized in the end that she was a horrible person. But I'm an optimistic person who takes both her song and the Greg/Rose fusion episode to take it that she did love and care about Greg.

I do also think that she probably viewed the totality of her mistakes as too big to atone for. And perhaps a bit of selfishness went into giving birth to Steven.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Define taking responsibility? What was she to do? She couldn't heal the corrupted, if she returned to her old identity earth could very well be jeopardized, I'm not sure how she would have foreseen homeworld learning of gem survivors. Could she have stood up in a real fight with the diamonds to do things face to face? Probably not successfully.

Even if she was perfect, sometimes the options you're handed suck and will have fallout. Sometimes you can't predict when powers beyond your control will overreact to your last effort. Or how things will turn out a few millennia later.

Fundamentally I view it like this: Steven, Greg and beach city and everyone in the world only exist because Rose/Pink fundamentally succeeded. She didn't do it cleanly but she did try when she appealed to the diamonds and that failed. The remaining choices are give up and accept the inevitable or resort to other methods.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,550
Tampa, Fl
I think the only thing she could have done different is she could have told the remaining crystal gems Who she really was.

I get why she didn't, but she could have.

After faking her shattering, honestly, there was very little else she could do to change anything.
 

KojiKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,444
Define taking responsibility? What was she to do? She couldn't heal the corrupted, if she returned to her old identity earth could very well be jeopardized, I'm not sure how she would have foreseen homeworld learning of gem survivors. Could she have stood up in a real fight with the diamonds to do things face to face? Probably not successfully.

Even if she was perfect, sometimes the options you're handed suck and will have fallout. Sometimes you can't predict when powers beyond your control will overreact to your last effort. Or how things will turn out a few millennia later.

Fundamentally I view it like this: Steven, Greg and beach city and everyone in the world only exist because Rose/Pink fundamentally succeeded. She didn't do it cleanly but she did try when she appealed to the diamonds and that failed. The remaining choices are give up and accept the inevitable or resort to other methods.
Step 1: Telling your friends and allies the truth, and accepting whatever consequences come from that.

Step 2: Make amends as best you can instead of sacrificing yourself in a way that doesn't solve any of those problems and leaving your progeny to clean up after you.

This would have been difficult for Rose to own up and do, but that's kind of the point. She fled responsibility multiple times (as Pink, as Rose).

She likely could never have made everything right, but the simple truth is we'll never know because she never tried. She never wanted to try, she was content to live life on Earth. Content to ignore all of her problems and have random flings with humans for all of time.


(Edit) Yes everything worked out in the end, but it wasn't because of some Grand scheme of Rose's, it worked out in spite of her, not because of her.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,329
Define taking responsibility? What was she to do? She couldn't heal the corrupted, if she returned to her old identity earth could very well be jeopardized, I'm not sure how she would have foreseen homeworld learning of gem survivors. Could she have stood up in a real fight with the diamonds to do things face to face? Probably not successfully.

Even if she was perfect, sometimes the options you're handed suck and will have fallout. Sometimes you can't predict when powers beyond your control will overreact to your last effort. Or how things will turn out a few millennia later.

Fundamentally I view it like this: Steven, Greg and beach city and everyone in the world only exist because Rose/Pink fundamentally succeeded. She didn't do it cleanly but she did try when she appealed to the diamonds and that failed. The remaining choices are give up and accept the inevitable or resort to other methods.
Last point isn’t actually true. The cluster would have obliterated the earth if Steven didn’t coincidentally have the right personality to deal with peridot.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Step 1: Telling your friends and allies the truth, and accepting whatever consequences come from that.

Step 2: Make amends as best you can instead of sacrificing yourself and leaving your progeny to clean up after you.

This would have been difficult for Rose to own up and do, but that's kind of the point. She fled responsibility multiple times (as Pink, as Rose).

She likely could never have made everything right, but the simple truth is we'll never know because she never tried. She never wanted to try, she was content to live life on Earth. Content to ignore all of her problems and have random flings with humans for all of time.
1) Granted, but at that point to the best of her knowledge it's a "what's done is done" thing which brings us to...

2) ...Did she actually leave her progeny to clean up or did she think that was done? Homeworld hadn't been back for a long time. Prior to Lapis leaving it seems they were content to leave it at that and it wasn't Pink/Rose that set that in motion.

As far as never trying, the first thing she did was directly object to the diamonds regarding the destruction of earth. Hard to get more straightforward than that. But when you're shown that method doesn't work the only thing left is taking a stand and living in the exile that was left to you when everything concluded. I'm just not seeing how "Oh, BTW I'm Pink Diamond" helps anyone with the lack of foresight she would have had. In hindsight sure, knowing what Steven went through because of everything she did I'd imagine she would have done things very differently. But she didn't know. Even the one with actual futuresight didn't know. The attribution to malice or flaws makes no sense.

Last point isn’t actually true. The cluster would have obliterated the earth if Steven didn’t coincidentally have the right personality to deal with peridot.
The cluster would have been a complete non-point had she not done what she did: Steven wouldn't have existed to talk to Peridot; there would be nothing for Steven to save from the cluster. Present and future existential threats matter because past existential threats were dealt with.

By Rose/Pink
 
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Morlas

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,090
I love reading discussion about Rose in this thread, It's just so interesting to see people's opinions on it all.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
(Edit) Yes everything worked out in the end, but it wasn't because of some Grand scheme of Rose's, it worked out in spite of her, not because of her.
Working out "in spite of her" is a non-starter for me. Without her:
  • Earth is a broken barren waste after gem colonization
  • Humanity is extinct as even the zoo was a result of her protesting the fate of the earth
  • The gem dystopia responsible for the above continues completely unchanged
Steven's confrontation with White Diamond changed the gem empire. Steven reached White Diamond through his interactions with the other diamonds and the realization that Rose was Pink. That realization was relevant due to other interactions with homeworld gems. Those interactions came about due to Lapis leaving earth. Lapis left earth with Steven's help. Steven only exists because of the actions she took leading her to save earth and form a relationship with Greg.

You can't have things "work out" despite the core catalyst for all of it.

Edit: To be more specific I'm not saying it was a grand scheme, I'm saying most of the things she did aren't as terrible in their respective context (if at all) as people are suggesting with her vilification.
 
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deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,550
Tampa, Fl
I never understood the vilification of her to be honest. She was a leader who tried to do her best. She just wasn't a very wise leader. She was charismatic, but not wise.

Truth is, the other diamonds were right, she wasn't ready for a colony. I'd argue she would have never been ready for a colony because of her nature.

She was strong in emotions, and in her wonderment. The minute she encountered life that wasn't gem life she wanted to preserve it. No other diamond could do that, or even understand that.

They took the humans to the zoo because they thought the organic life were just a passing fancy of hers. They weren't.

Whatever you want to say about Rose, she never faltered from her cause to preserve the Earth and its inhabitants. She tried everything she thought would work to make the gems abandon the colony.

She couldn't have foreseen the corruption wave, she couldn't have foreseen the cluster. And she messed up in a lot of ways, but she always tried to pick life first.

Honestly, she reminds me of the episode of Deep Space Nine In the Pale Moonlight.

She has done horrible things, covered up things, lied, hidden the fates of friends from her friends. But she did it to save the Earth. And I think she decided after the corruption wave, "I can live with it"
 

Narroo

Member
Feb 27, 2018
1,272
Step 1: Telling your friends and allies the truth, and accepting whatever consequences come from that.

Step 2: Make amends as best you can instead of sacrificing yourself in a way that doesn't solve any of those problems and leaving your progeny to clean up after you.

This would have been difficult for Rose to own up and do, but that's kind of the point. She fled responsibility multiple times (as Pink, as Rose).

She likely could never have made everything right, but the simple truth is we'll never know because she never tried. She never wanted to try, she was content to live life on Earth. Content to ignore all of her problems and have random flings with humans for all of time.


(Edit) Yes everything worked out in the end, but it wasn't because of some Grand scheme of Rose's, it worked out in spite of her, not because of her.
So, her and the other crystal gems were effectively stranded on Earth. Furthermore, they also had the issue of the corrupted gems which they were clearly working on. It's more like that there wasn't much she could do.
 

Narroo

Member
Feb 27, 2018
1,272
That makes it even worse then. And its so strange the movie treats them as "Steven's wacky relatives!!" *laughtrack plays*. They really should've been condemned more in the plot like Pink was. Im not even saying they should be shattered, cuz I know SU's philosophy wouldn't slow it.
Yeah, that was bizarre and seemed to kinda screw over the characters. The entire movie episode was pretty bad, I think. It retreated everyone's character arcs for no reason, while flanderizing the diamonds. And lot's of bad musical numbers.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Yeah, that was bizarre and seemed to kinda screw over the characters. The entire movie episode was pretty bad, I think. It retreated everyone's character arcs for no reason, while flanderizing the diamonds. And lot's of bad musical numbers.
Its ok ,i like the musical numbers but nothing amazing.Its basically Steven Universe : The Greatest Hits! album . Like a victory lap for the series. Almost fittingly it reminds me of a typical anime spinoff movie in someways.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,093
I never understood the vilification of her to be honest. She was a leader who tried to do her best. She just wasn't a very wise leader. She was charismatic, but not wise.

Truth is, the other diamonds were right, she wasn't ready for a colony. I'd argue she would have never been ready for a colony because of her nature.

She was strong in emotions, and in her wonderment. The minute she encountered life that wasn't gem life she wanted to preserve it. No other diamond could do that, or even understand that.

They took the humans to the zoo because they thought the organic life were just a passing fancy of hers. They weren't.

Whatever you want to say about Rose, she never faltered from her cause to preserve the Earth and its inhabitants. She tried everything she thought would work to make the gems abandon the colony.

She couldn't have foreseen the corruption wave, she couldn't have foreseen the cluster. And she messed up in a lot of ways, but she always tried to pick life first.

Honestly, she reminds me of the episode of Deep Space Nine In the Pale Moonlight.

She has done horrible things, covered up things, lied, hidden the fates of friends from her friends. But she did it to save the Earth. And I think she decided after the corruption wave, "I can live with it"
Someone who gets it.

Honestly, Rose and Pink are among the most complex and nuanced characters in all of kid's television. I would give GOOD money to see a comic or a movie based on her after the show is over.

So much of the fanbase reducing her as they do is like the second most disappointing thing about the base as a whole.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,550
Tampa, Fl
I Honestly think a lot of people don't understand what Rebecca Sugar is trying to do with her characters.
To me the entire series. Was sold on a single song.

And it isn't the one most fans focus on.


It's these lyrics. In 55 seconds.

"I don't need you to respect me,
I respect me,
I don't need you to love me,
I love me,
But want you to know,
You can know me,
If you change your mind.
If you change your mind.
If you change your mind.
Change your mind"


It's the only song in the Steven Universe catalog that I always cry to. I love "Made of Love". I adore "True Kind of Love". I mediate to "Here comes a thought"

The continuity freak adores "Love Like You"

But no song hits me as hard as "Change Your Mind"

I'm going to be 40 years old this year. And no song as perfectly expressed my own Journey in my sexuality, my gender, my everything.

And while Rebecca Sugar sings it well, Zach nails it out of the park for me.


The whole series, everything about it can be understood in that song. And the wonderful lesson it teaches to children who watch the song.

That you don't need to fit in, you don't need to be normal. No bulky or absentia teacher can ruin you.

You stand as yourself, and those who hate you don't matter. And yet, they can still be your friend, if they can change as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,050
I never understood the vilification of her to be honest. She was a leader who tried to do her best. She just wasn't a very wise leader. She was charismatic, but not wise.

Truth is, the other diamonds were right, she wasn't ready for a colony. I'd argue she would have never been ready for a colony because of her nature.

She was strong in emotions, and in her wonderment. The minute she encountered life that wasn't gem life she wanted to preserve it. No other diamond could do that, or even understand that.

They took the humans to the zoo because they thought the organic life were just a passing fancy of hers. They weren't.

Whatever you want to say about Rose, she never faltered from her cause to preserve the Earth and its inhabitants. She tried everything she thought would work to make the gems abandon the colony.

She couldn't have foreseen the corruption wave, she couldn't have foreseen the cluster. And she messed up in a lot of ways, but she always tried to pick life first.

Honestly, she reminds me of the episode of Deep Space Nine In the Pale Moonlight.

She has done horrible things, covered up things, lied, hidden the fates of friends from her friends. But she did it to save the Earth. And I think she decided after the corruption wave, "I can live with it"
+1

She has never thought things through and it will usually bite her in the ass but she did it for something she believed in and learned to appreciate even more, especially once Greg makes her realize what she has managed to preserve. It was the most Pyrrhic of victories but she took it.

But things like that don't just go away and now Steven has to deal with all that baggage so many years in the making. Luckily he has Greg in him so that
should give him a shot.
 
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Psxphile

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,795
wtf at these new leaks


also apparently SU The Movie is going to be shown in theaters in late March, rumor has it they'll also screen a new episode of Future there
 

jwk94

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,262
wtf at these new leaks


also apparently SU The Movie is going to be shown in theaters in late March, rumor has it they'll also screen a new episode of Future there
Yep, cwtheatres description says there's gonna be a special intro and a new episode of future. Definitely nabbing me a ticket.
 
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Morlas

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,090
gonna be tough to see this series go hope we get more content down the line even if it's not a show
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
On a positive note I can't wait to see what Rebecca Sugar does next after Steven Universe.
 
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Illusion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,520
Damn the leaks/rumors might be true after watching that trailer.

The Diamonds find a joy in repairing corrupted gems becoming artisans.

Steven going on a camping trip to be alone for a while.

Steven proposing to Connie with a wedding ring and getting rejected because he's rushing into the idea of marriage for some reason. Making this the final straw that makes him snap and becomes corrupted.

Then a leak animation clip of the diamonds + the crystal gems + connie on lion rushing on a large body of water towards something. Presumably corrupted Steven as the Worm thing seen in the previews.
 
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Morlas

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,090
Damn the leaks/rumors might be true after watching that trailer.

The Diamonds find a joy in repairing corrupted gems becoming artisans.

Steven going on a camping trip to be alone for a while.

Steven proposing to Connie with a wedding ring and getting rejected because he's rushing into the idea of marriage for some reason. Making this the final straw that makes him snap and becomes corrupted.

Then a leak animation clip of the diamonds + the crystal gems + connie on lion rushing on a large body of water towards something. Presumably corrupted Steven as the Worm thing seen in the previews.
worst part about this is it means Steven remembers the whole thing
 

Order

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
727
Damn the leaks/rumors might be true after watching that trailer.

The Diamonds find a joy in repairing corrupted gems becoming artisans.

Steven going on a camping trip to be alone for a while.

Steven proposing to Connie with a wedding ring and getting rejected because he's rushing into the idea of marriage for some reason. Making this the final straw that makes him snap and becomes corrupted.

Then a leak animation clip of the diamonds + the crystal gems + connie on lion rushing on a large body of water towards something. Presumably corrupted Steven as the Worm thing seen in the previews.
Oh god that third paragraph makes me feel a special kind of pain
 

KenzinFive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,274
All of this frustrated and angry Steven stuff and his probable corruption are incredibly depressing. I know everything will be OK in the end, but it's going to be rough getting there.

Especially if the Connie leak stuff is true, which sounds likely given that one of the shots in the trailer looks like a destroyed romantic picnic with a broken jar of jam, flowers, and what looks like a ring box, potentially in the spot on the beach where they both met in Bubble Buddies. Connie's 100% right to reject Steven proposing, but mannnn, is it going to suck to see Connverse put on the rocks like that, even if they probably reconcile by the finale. Connie's giving Steven a romantic, wistful look in the show opening, so I still think they're getting together. Steven's just going to screw things up along the way...
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,050
AAAAAAAAAAANANNGGGGGGGGSSSSSTSTSTSTSTSTST!


Damn the leaks/rumors might be true after watching that trailer.

The Diamonds find a joy in repairing corrupted gems becoming artisans.

Steven going on a camping trip to be alone for a while.

Steven proposing to Connie with a wedding ring and getting rejected because he's rushing into the idea of marriage for some reason. Making this the final straw that makes him snap and becomes corrupted.

Then a leak animation clip of the diamonds + the crystal gems + connie on lion rushing on a large body of water towards something. Presumably corrupted Steven as the Worm thing seen in the previews.
Oh Steven baby what is you doing :/

If this is true then damn :(
 
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JSevere

Member
Oct 25, 2017
438

movie in theaters and the one hour series finale in the same week. SU is definitely going out with a bang