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Stop Skeletons From Fighting: Why Dragon Quest XI's Music is Terrible

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
Ok I know the title sounds clickbaity and even if you disagree with it still watch the video.


Because it's not so much about the quality of music of this one game but rather a deep dive on this man: Koichi Sugiyama.

He's been responsible for the series's music and composed every main series game since the first. If you know of him then you probably know how terrible his political views have been but even then that's not the full story.

Laid out like this, the reason why Dragon Quest XI uses midi samples escalates very quickly.
 
Mesoian

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,519
Sugiyama is, indeed, a massive piece of shit.

But until he dies, you will never get a DQ game that doesn't have his direct involvement. You have to decide whether you're in or out because Square is not listening to anti-Sugiyama rhetoric.
 
AlexFlame116

AlexFlame116

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
23,182
Utah
Oh it's about the composer, not the music itself!

Now it makes more sense. Sugiyama really needs to go. We don't need people with beliefs like his to have any sort of influence at all.
 
AztecComplex

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
hydrophilic attack said:
i boycotted this game because of sugiyama's involvement

fuck him
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That's not how this works. I don't think you understand there is no DQ at all if Sugiyama is not involved. He calls the shots as much as Square Enix does. And punishing hundreds of people by not buying a still spectacular videogame like DQXI is not the way to go.

The man is 87. He can't be around for much longer.
 
hydrophilic attack

hydrophilic attack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
AztecComplex said:
That's not how this works. I don't think you understand there is no DQ at all if Sugiyama is not involved. He calls the shots as much as Square Enix does. And punishing hundreds of people by not buying a still spectacular videogame like DQXI is not the way to go.

The man is 87. He can't be around for much longer.
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so i can buy these games after he is dead then
 
Berordn

Berordn

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Oct 26, 2017
9,744
NoVA
AztecComplex said:
That's not how this works. I don't think you understand there is no DQ at all if Sugiyama is not involved. He calls the shots as much as Square Enix does. And punishing hundreds of people by not buying a still spectacular videogame like DQXI is not the way to go.

The man is 87. He can't be around for much longer.
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I mean, what are you saying here? Buy the game because poor widdle Square Enix isn't going to be around much longer if I don't?

The man's a piece of shit, and if his association with the series is what turns people off of the franchise, then it's their choice. SE is not better or worse off of this handful of sales and everyone still gets to make a statement.
 
Daitokuji

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
This isn't specifically about DQ11 but Koichi Sugiyama is a mediocre composer. Just like everything else in DQ, all his music is very same-y.

But he is like the John Williams of DQ, he will always be asked back because that's how it's been and that's what the fans want.
 
QisTopTier

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Wispmetas said:
I can't play a game that sounds like this. Sorry.
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I mean if you play it on pc it doesnt

Also yes the guy is a giant piece of shit. But people can be a piece of shit and make good music... that is not the case with XI so many melodies are off key missing notes and so on that just make it all so fucking jarring
 
No Depth

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,291
A lot of the video goes over discussion points raised all over this forum already, but I fully do agree with her opinion that despite the midi quality, the actual compositions themselves in XI are really bland and subpar efforts considering his work prior. Very reminiscent of what has been established for the games before but never exceeding. It's lo-rent DQ music in both quality and writing output.

It's time to cut the old man loose.
 
JusDoIt

JusDoIt

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Oct 25, 2017
34,738
South Central Los Angeles
AztecComplex said:
That's not how this works. I don't think you understand there is no DQ at all if Sugiyama is not involved. He calls the shots as much as Square Enix does. And punishing hundreds of people by not buying a still spectacular videogame like DQXI is not the way to go.

The man is 87. He can't be around for much longer.
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Actually, that's exactly how it works. Refusing to buy a game is not "punishment" for the people who work on it, it's about making a conscientious decision with your purchasing power.
 
Kewlmyc

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,721
Can't watch this now, but why does this series use midi soundtracks when orchestra version of the same soundtracks exist?
 

Cathcart

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,058
Daitokuji said:
This isn't specifically about DQ11 but Koichi Sugiyama is a mediocre composer. Just like everything else in DQ, all his music is very same-y.

But he is like the John Williams of DQ, he will always be asked back because that's how it's been and that's what the fans want.
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He is a co owner of the series, he doesn't need to be "asked back".
 
Sgt. Demblant

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Yeah DQ11 is my GOTY so far but the music was a sore point.
And that's the least of the problems I have with Sugiyama. Fuck this scumbag.
 
Vicious17

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
I bought the shit out of this game and loved it. Finished it like a day before the Orchestral mod came out.

Music was bad enough for me to turn the music volume almost all the way down, something I never do in games.

People not bying this because of Sugiyama's involement is fucking baffling to me. He's a massive irredeemably dickback, but denying yourself a great game because of him, especially when he also did music for the 10 games that came before is... something else.
 
Kewlmyc

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,721
QisTopTier said:
Because the composer has the final say on what music is allowed to be used
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Seems weird that two version of the same soundtrack would exist. It would make sense if both were used in the game, but one isn't and has to be modded in.

Unless the JP version uses the orchestra version or something.
 
CRIMSON-XIII

CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,173
Chicago, IL
Whenever I think about Dragon Quest now , i just imagine the main title theme.

I guess I have never been a fan of DQ music, Dragon quest builders did not grab me too much in the music department.

On the other hand, so many ppl disregarded the Final Fantasy XV soundtrack. somnus, hellfire, nox aeterna, apocalypsis noctis, omnis lacrima, invidia, veiled in black, sorrow, dawn, look at all these epic amazing tracks i can name. the best game music this generation IMO. And i feel like so many people disregarded it.

my opinion of course.
 
The Almighty Tria

The Almighty Tria

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
The orchestrated music is very good.

I dont care how much of a douche the man is, I'm not going to stop from buying a game hundreds of people of worked on because of one douchebag. That's fucking stupid.
 

Deleted member 39144

User requested account closure
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Jan 27, 2018
711
Yeah, I'm another who won't buy another DQ game after finding out about Sugiyama. Fuck him. I'm glad this guy's disgusting opinions are getting noticed now.
 

Deleted member 4198

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
231
Not buying another DQ game until after Sugiyama can no longer receive any money from my purchases. I'll wait the at most 20 years if I have to, there's more RPGs than I have time to play out there anyways. It's a shame since DW1 was the first game I ever played, but if I have to wait I'll wait.
 
Mesoian

Mesoian

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Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,519
AztecComplex said:
That's not how this works. I don't think you understand there is no DQ at all if Sugiyama is not involved. He calls the shots as much as Square Enix does. And punishing hundreds of people by not buying a still spectacular videogame like DQXI is not the way to go.

The man is 87. He can't be around for much longer.
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So why shouldn't you boycott now and decide to jump in after he's dead, giving a further underscore to the kind of people Square Enix should be keeping or ousting from their board?
 

Goodbye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
I really love the soundtrack in DQXI and am constantly humming along with it. I also think the midi soundtrack is the better choice for this game. It feels a better fit than the orchestrated version if you ask me.
 
AbstractPlain

AbstractPlain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
270
They need to start with a clean slate for the series in regards to the music. Get a new composer and make new music. Ditch Sugiyama even if it means ditching the old tunes and hire someone who isn't an asshole and holds the ost hostage.
 
Transistor

Transistor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Kewlmyc said:
Seems weird that two version of the same soundtrack would exist. It would make sense if both were used in the game, but one isn't and has to be modded in.

Unless the JP version uses the orchestra version or something.
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Isn't the reason because Sugiyama wants to sell concert tickets and orchestral albums, and he can sell more of those by not using the music in the game? He's a massive piece of shit, so it wouldn't surprise me.
 
Vicious17

Vicious17

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Oct 29, 2017
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Mesoian said:
So why shouldn't you boycott now and decide to jump in after he's dead, giving a further underscore to the kind of people Square Enix should be keeping or ousting from their board?
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I mean... did you buy any of the other 10+ DQ games? Cause he was on those too. Besides, boycotting fucks over the devs and the people who made the actual game more than it does him. He makes money off of concert and CD sales, the game failing would hurt him, but it wouldnt send him into bankruptcy or whatever. It WILL fuck over the hundreds of people who worked on the game though.
 
Hercule

Hercule

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Jun 20, 2018
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Transistor said:
Isn't the reason because Sugiyama wants to sell concert tickets and orchestral albums, and he can sell more of those by not using the music in the game? He's a massive piece of shit, so it wouldn't surprise me.
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I heard on a rpg podcast one time that this way all of his staff gets a better paycheck. The man was basically retired when DQ1 came out so it isn't a money thing
 

Deleted member 39144

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Jan 27, 2018
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Vicious17 said:
I mean... did you buy any of the other 10+ DQ games? Cause he was on those too. Besides, boycotting fucks over the devs and the people who made the actual game more than it does him. He makes money off of concert and CD sales, the game failing would hurt him, but it wouldnt send him into bankruptcy or whatever. It WILL fuck over the hundreds of people who worked on the game though.
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That's not the point. The point is I refuse to play a game where a homophobic, holocaust-denying, hate filled old man played a part in it's creation. I couldn't bring myself to play it knowing he was involved. So I won't.
 
Vicious17

Vicious17

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Oct 29, 2017
2,293
mrflibble said:
That's not the point. The point is I refuse to play a game where a homophobic, holocaust-denying, hate filled old man played a part in it's creation. I couldn't bring myself to play it knowing he was involved. So I won't.
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Cool. So, the other people who worked on the game can go fuck themselves?
 

Deleted member 29464

Account closed at user request
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Nov 1, 2017
3,121
She seemed to hit all the major points and why I dislike DQXI's soundtrack. I don't get why Japan got some better tracks for the 3DS versions of VII and VIII, it almost seems like pettiness.

Also, that Death Crimson midi wasn't as bad as the others.
 
Village

Village

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Oct 25, 2017
11,809
Vicious17 said:
Cool. So, the other people who worked on the game can go fuck themselves?
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Not go fuck themselves, but it doesnt matter

As a consumer you have no obligation to give a corporation your money. Particularly in regards to entertainment. People work on a lot of things, if someone high up involved with the creative process happens to be enough of a shit heel to get people to not buy it and the company does nothing about it. Thems the breaks man. They worked on a thing you aren't interested in and you aren't buying it, that's it.

You don't go " OH what about this poor film union workers " when you decide to not see a shitty movie, don't pretend that all of a sudden matters now because now because its a thing you like. You have no idea how that monetary pay out is working in regards to that game. Like if you don't care what this guy says and will enjoy the product anyway just admit that, don't make this about a bunch of other people because i'm sure it doesn't impact your buying decisions anywhere else because if it did you would literally be buying anything and everything because someone worked on it
 
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