Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition |OT2| Street Fighter Has Come Home

Scraftyko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
Been a while since I’ve played “season 2” who is considered top tier right now?
As of Season 4 (which started in December and hasn't been patched since then), the general consensus is that Akuma, Rashid, Ibuki, Karin, Birdie, and Bison are all highly-rated. It breaks down a bit beyond that and thoughts have changed a lot as the season's developed (i.e. a lot of Japanese players thought Zangief would be godlike this season but he quickly slipped down to mid-tiers as people realized how to capitalize on his shortcomings) but those six almost almost rank near the top of most pro opinion lists.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,013
Late as hell, but just learned from watching a Sako video that characters with a v-trigger command grab have their grabs telegraphed by a drop in meter when the animation starts up. Why did I think meter only drained after the grab either whiffed or connected?
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,357
As of Season 4 (which started in December and hasn't been patched since then), the general consensus is that Akuma, Rashid, Ibuki, Karin, Birdie, and Bison are all highly-rated. It breaks down a bit beyond that and thoughts have changed a lot as the season's developed (i.e. a lot of Japanese players thought Zangief would be godlike this season but he quickly slipped down to mid-tiers as people realized how to capitalize on his shortcomings) but those six almost almost rank near the top of most pro opinion lists.
There was a time there where hype was building for Zeku... Did that break?
 

Scraftyko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
There was a time there where hype was building for Zeku... Did that break?
Zeku's still pretty damned good (there were two Zekus in Top 8 of EVO this year and both had pretty distinct playstyles), just not as overwhelmingly good as the aforementioned six. I've been skimming a bunch of pro player tier lists from all over the world and most seem to rank him just below top tier, so strong but not godlike.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,404
Honda gets mauled by all the top tiers so he wont be much of an issue
While he seems viable, I do still have less difficulty fighting him than other grapplers and their bullshit like Laura and Mika. Matches against Zangief and even Alex also seem like they lead to blow-ups far more quickly after only a few mistakes.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,404
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Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,283
Lucia can be better. While her DP hits from the back, is not reliable. And it's not really a DP and isn't strike invincible or throw invincible unless you use VT1 and has the same issue with Karin's EX Reversal. She doesn't have an answer to get around fireballs and while she has her slide, you can't do it on reaction and you can't VTC.

I would place her in mid tier, her corner damage is great but mid screen she kinda struggles.
 

CountBlack

Member
Oct 26, 2017
728
I've been playing a lot of Honda and he's okay but mostly stinks imo

his VT's can rob you but that's also over half the cast
his EX headbutt is -24 throwable with one hit of armour lmao
both his jabs have great reach but are 5f
his 4f buttons have no reach
he's got some good up close plus buttons
his fwd HK CC button is -7, slow as hell and has a huge hurtbox
his VSkill is cool but it's so slow that you can't really react to fireballs up close with it unless you're doing it preemptively

overall I think he can be played solidly but he seems blanka/gimmick tier for now
 

CountBlack

Member
Oct 26, 2017
728
I think Birdie is the only character in the game with frame 1 armour on a special move outside of VT and I'm still not sure why they made it unique to only him (unless there are more of course)
 
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jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,638
I have to say, Lucia's keyframe when you snatch her (charged) with Ed is kinda confusing from a gameplay perspective. It looks like she blocked the attack which honestly trips me up a bit.



Ryu's for comparison

 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,648
Pakistan
I've been playing a lot of Honda and he's okay but mostly stinks imo

his VT's can rob you but that's also over half the cast
his EX headbutt is -24 throwable with one hit of armour lmao
both his jabs have great reach but are 5f
his 4f buttons have no reach
he's got some good up close plus buttons
his fwd HK CC button is -7, slow as hell and has a huge hurtbox
his VSkill is cool but it's so slow that you can't really react to fireballs up close with it unless you're doing it preemptively

overall I think he can be played solidly but he seems blanka/gimmick tier for now
This is pretty much where I'm at.

His potential for round theft is incredible for sure but a lot of other elements are nowhere near as stable as other characters who can also rob you.
 

mojo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
363
Why is capcom so hesitant to shake this game up? They add 3 characters to the game and it's obvious which one is going to be good because after 3 years you win doing the same shit.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,648
Pakistan

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
People got that with Menat and everyone whined! You deserve your rushdown monsters
Indeed. SFV is just a game suited towards a very specific style. You can win playing Menat, Poison, or Sagat. Or you can make your life easier and play with the RTSD mixup characters instead.

Menat was right there, but she got unjustly nerfed (the VT nerf was acceptable) because the audience doesn't want to *residentsleeper* and prefers to see Rashid and Akuma flip around all over the place with plus frames and immediately destroy their opponent in the corner.

Like FighterZ, it's honestly just bad fighting game design. Where one type of style is prioritized so much over another and the game just starts to look the same all the time.
 
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Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,124
Why is capcom so hesitant to shake this game up? They add 3 characters to the game and it's obvious which one is going to be good because after 3 years you win doing the same shit.
At this point sf5 is just a bad kof game. Capcoms whole fighting game division should be fired. I never want to see that clown ono and his blanka doll again.
Big yup to your "you win with the same shit" quote. That's why I hated evil evil Ryu release. Another stubby button rush down v trigger monster?! In SFV?! How exciting...

You really do just win with the same shit in this game. And, man... I really want the SFV team to either look at why so many people have problems with the game or be changed out. How does one of the major problems in SF4 (Yun's EX +1 Lunge punch) get replicated 10 fold for their new game?

"You hated being -1 from a full screen fast special? How about being in a legit 50/50 for half your health on block?!"

Something has got to give with this fucking crazy offense.
 

Scraftyko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
The grand paradox of (an annoyingly vocal part of) the FGC is that they want both variety and “hype” at the same time but only consider one particular playstyle to be “hype.” Reading the comments on any stream/match featuring a zoner/harasser shows people complaining about “lame” play (and this goes back a loooooong way, even archives of Daigo matches in SFIV have comments complaining about his playstyle) whereas most “hype moments compilation” clickbait bs is 99% comprised of RTSD nonsense and huge, explosive comebacks.

In other words, these people want all of their groceries in one bag but they don’t want the bag to be heavy, and it’s severely affecting the character variety even in games beyond SF (see: the balancing of SamSho, DBFZ, and even Smash favouring more kinetic in-your-face characters rather than more slow, methodical ones).
 

Sussudio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
224
Mad people residentsleep about Rashid, Akuma (Unless Ur Tokido), and Karin (Unless ur Punk/Bonchan). People bitch about everything relating to the game. They hate rushdown, 50/50, lame play, patient play, zoning, etc.... People can't make up their damn mind on want they want anymore, and not everybody gonna be happy. Shit gets old, it has been over three years now. SFV is what it is at this point good or bad, there's not gonna be a big shake up that's gonna magically fix all this shit.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
Mad people residentsleep about Rashid, Akuma (Unless Ur Tokido), and Karin (Unless ur Punk/Bonchan). People bitch about everything relating to the game. They hate rushdown, 50/50, lame play, patient play, zoning, etc.... People can't make up their damn mind on want they want anymore, and not everybody gonna be happy. Shit gets old, it has been over three years now. SFV is what it is at this point good or bad, there's not gonna be a big shake up that's gonna magically fix all this shit.
Less so than what Scraftyko outlined. It's very clear that what the viewership at large enjoys is explosive, offense oriented gameplay. More than anything else. People will still complain about Genjuros all over the place in SamSho or Bardock in FighterZ S1, but that's more about the character repetition than their playstyles.

In MK11, people complain about something like Cetrion zoning way more than seeing a Jacqui bumrush the opponent. It's the audience's mentality, and it's affecting actual fighting game design. SFV makes it very clear with how they've designed the game and the adjustments they've made which always lean towards that style. Going back to Menat, the changes they made to her were specifically to make her play closer to the opponent and force offensive play, because they didn't like people playing solely keepaway.

This is why I like ASW games that aren't BBTAG or FighterZ (I do hope these didn't infect GBFV or the new GG). Their games actually value wildly different playstyles equally.
 

NeoChaos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
718
NorCal
You only need to see how often projectile zoning gets referred to as "spamming" outside of competitive FGC circles to understand how much dislike (at best) there is among the casual audience for combat that isn't fought within sweep range. Sadly, Capcom listened to those folks which led to the SFV we have now.
 

Scraftyko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
Yeah, like, this is entirely anecdotal, but I know people who aren’t usually super into FGs but tune into EVO every year just to see what all the hubbub is, and these same people INSTANTLY start complaining as soon as they see “spamming.”

Zoning takes a ton of skill to pull off successfully in most games, but to the uninitiated who don’t understand the intricacies of the system it just looks like “projectile spam.” I dunno if it’s possible for most games to design zoning that’s more visually-appealing for spectators (I’d argue that Peacock from Skullgirls should be the gold standard for this cuz the sheer variety in her projectiles, both aesthetically and mechanically, makes it more interesting to watch) but until that conundrum is solved, the new era of rushdown is gonna continue unabided.
 
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jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,638
I wonder what are the chances of SFV getting a proper-ass remaster for next-gen. A lot of the source elements created for the game are of really high quality (the actual game user lower quality versions), so it's a possibility.





 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,885
Netherlands
You only need to see how often projectile zoning gets referred to as "spamming" outside of competitive FGC circles to understand how much dislike (at best) there is among the casual audience for combat that isn't fought within sweep range. Sadly, Capcom listened to those folks which led to the SFV we have now.
"lol all you do is spam fireball noob this isn't a shooter lmao"



Zoning takes a ton of skill to pull off successfully in most games, but to the uninitiated who don’t understand the intricacies of the system it just looks like “projectile spam.”
Yeah exactly. I won't lie, I'm not always in the mood to watch a JWong half hour Menat match. But if you take your time and really watch what he is doing, it's so impressive. Just the way he routinely makes a life deficit/clock ticking out situation work in his favor by making his opponent, who has the life lead, feel like they are losing the match. The opponents gets antsy, tries to jump in and dies with 5 seconds left.

Plus the way he controls the entire screen and completely shuts an opponent down. But to most people he is just laming it out and mindlessly spamming crouching or standing fierce.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
I wonder what are the chances of SFV getting a proper-ass remaster for next-gen. A lot of the source elements created for the game are of really high quality (the actual game user lower quality versions), so it's a possibility.





They'd need to redo all the NPC, they are much lower quality than any item in the background.
One of my UI wishes for this game would be to add a toggle to remove all NPC from a background. Some places would look so much better.