Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition |OT2| Street Fighter Has Come Home

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,942
I think you all are forgetting the disappointing nature of the Season 4 balance patch. It was a whole list filled with small insignificant shit and few major shake ups.
I think I was already bored by the middle of S3, G made me come back for a month, but then season 4's nothing balance patch was enough to make me drop the game. It's still a fun game to watch and I played Poison a bit, but S5 will need to be really different to drag me back. Also, S4 coming with "no season pass this time" and "here's Kage, your new favourite character" was a bad combination that made me question whether the game was on the way out.

Now that we know the game has at least another year of life and they're still investing in creating good characters like the last 3 we had, I want to believe S4 being underwhelming was because they were saving their big changes for S5.
I want aggressive changes, new moves that deliver new options for characters. I want to have to think which VT to use once I see my opponent, not have it a bad question where there's only one good answer. More than a new V-skill, I want the V-Cancel to be looked at and reworked for the characters that need it badly, like Claw or Ed. There has to be a way to make defence a bit better in the game without turning it into SF4.

Ah, and also, costume code toggle. I want it.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
I was with you until this part. Basically you just want the character to not exist?

Yes I do play the character and think he's great, but no where near enough to justify that kind of health. The bull shit would really have to be off the charts for any character to have health that low.
As someone who plays both Ibuki and Lucia, can't say I'm in favor of giving either of them 800 health. And even with acknowledging the former as certainly being great, she's not even in the same league of bullshit as someone like Rashid, a character who has entirely too much mobility along with an excess of plus frames making damn near everything safe regardless of resources contributing to his lockdown potential.

Either way, making them die faster wouldn't really make characters like those or Bison (who was omitted for some reason) any less oppressive.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,267
Bison!

975 health
Revert walk speed back to Season 1
Nerf Throw range
...Whiffed Psycho Axe DRAINS super meter (would make back dashing out of his pressure give you SOME sort of reward if you got the read on yet another Axe)

And Akuma deserves under 750 health if he keeps red fireball into v trigger. Fucking let the other characters breathe a little.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,942
How about giving everyone 20% more health, to make the gap between the lower HP and the higher HP more meaningful?

* think of Abigail with 20% more health *

Oh, that's why I'm not a game designer. OK, carry on.
 

Rice Eater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
911
As someone who plays both Ibuki and Lucia, can't say I'm in favor of giving either of them 800 health. And even with acknowledging the former as certainly being great, she's not even in the same league of bullshit as someone like Rashid, a character who has entirely too much mobility along with an excess of plus frames making damn near everything safe regardless of resources contributing to his lockdown potential.

Either way, making them die faster wouldn't really make characters like those or Bison (who was omitted for some reason) any less oppressive.
I actually didn't mean to make it look like I agreed with him on all the health changes. I don't, I only meant to refer to the Akuma changes. The nerfing of some meter gain or normals is fine going from 900 health to 700 health is pretty ridiculous. Same goes for Lucia and Ibuki at 800. I don't play either character, but I don't see how their arsenal justifies health that low either.

The first fighter I took seriously was SF4 and Akuma and Seth were ridiculous in that game. And they made up for it with amazing tools that annoyed the rest of us so much. I don't want to go there where Akuma would have neutral/back jump fireball and a completely invincible and fast teleport just so he could actually have 700 health (and stun I suppose)
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,703
I don't think this game will ever see the changes I want from it. Too many characters have the same game plan and win conditions. Too many characters operate the same way, and the top characters all have a clearly defined design philosophy while it's a struggle to play with anyone else, that is if they're even viable.

It would require a proper overhaul.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,617
I'll keep saying this, MK11 is a better Street Fighter V game than Street Fighter V.

Better meter usage that allows you to rollout and have a invincible move on wake up instead of having to block first.


And throws weren't a threat in old SF titles because you're either invincible to throws in the first couple of frames on wake up or backdash because they have Iframes. With throws having enough recovery on whiff that your forced to block if they jump over it.



This is what SFV needs to focus.
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,420
i just want online mode improvements. i don't really care if they release more chars/stages or not. just adding stuff doesn't solve anything.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,267
Neutral ducking throws in MK and getting a massive punish is so nice. One of those nice "I know what he's going to to, and I was rewarded with something" moments.

Meanwhile when Karin knocks me down I know exactly what's going to play out and I still feel completely handcuffed. None of that "SFV is about commitment" actually applies to a lot of situations in the game.

What "commitment" is Rashid/Karin/Bison making when their pressure strings naturally
-reset pressure
-have little to no push back
-can catch your buttons, dash back, and jump back
-leaves them in range to shimmy or throw you
-give them MORE oki if you're hit
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,703
Make VT activation cancels minus on block. That'd be nice.
I feel like this fundamentally wouldn't work with how some VTs are designed. They did remove the + frames from Balrog's cr.MK TC, but now they just use cr.MK for the plus frames. Maybe it would actually work, but things would still feel really different (hopefully in a positive way).

I think literally every character should have a DP. Every single one should have a wakeup option for 1 bar. We already see how much of a privilege it is for a character to have one of those in this game; it's no secret when you look at the best.

All V-Reversals should be faster. Why the hell Karin gets to have a fast V-Reversal is beyond me. Make V-Reversals more effective.

The issue with this game really comes down to a lack of options on defense, while the privileged characters have a million options on offense. It's really just that simple. Everything in this game could stay just the way it is if the balance between offense and defense was more even.
Neutral ducking throws in MK and getting a massive punish is so nice. One of those nice "I know what he's going to to, and I was rewarded with something" moments.

Meanwhile when Karin knocks me down I know exactly what's going to play out and I still feel completely handcuffed. None of that "SFV is about commitment" actually applies to a lot of situations in the game.

What "commitment" is Rashid/Karin/Bison making when their pressure strings naturally
Though I wouldn't want to see duck to beat a throw in SF, and throws do have the added dimension of being 50/50s based on direction in MK11 (there's also the issue I have with many characters having legit throw loops mid-screen), I do agree with this. In MK11, there's a degree of commitment you need to make for all of your pressure, especially if you want to go for oki. If you commit to a string and they roll out or delay rise, you can get punished. If you commit to a string and they DP, it's their turn. If you commit to a throw/tic throw, it's actually very risky. If you commit to jumping at them for oki, they can blow you up with U2. There's also always YOLO wakeup Fatal Blow.

So in a lot of oki situations in MK11 you'll just see opponents hang back and wait to respond to what the opponent's doing, which also gives the knocked down player breathing room if they didn't decide to do anything.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,267
I think literally every character should have a DP. Every single one should have a wakeup option for 1 bar. We already see how much of a privilege it is for a character to have one of those in this game; it's no secret when you look at the best.

All V-Reversals should be faster. Why the hell Karin gets to have a fast V-Reversal is beyond me. Make V-Reversals more effective.
It's crazy how these two seemingly easy changes would make the game so much better. All the crazy offense stays, but now people would have some inherent breathing room by wake of the threat of ex dp. I think that "how to fix SFV" video from earlier this year was spot on. Woshige being a millia player definitely had an effect on what he wanted to see in the game.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,617
They can make certain EX moves invincible during reversal windows like on wake up or while on block stun.

For example, I'm playing as Nash and I can use EX Scythe against a Bison who keeps mashing buttons.

Because let's be honest, V-Reversal is a failed game design.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,942
I think literally every character should have a DP. Every single one should have a wakeup option for 1 bar. We already see how much of a privilege it is for a character to have one of those in this game; it's no secret when you look at the best.
It might be difficult for some characters, wouldn't?
What would Dhalsim have? EX Yoga flame with full body invincibility? Invincible Yoga Tower?

Maybe they could make it a new universal system. The same command as V-reversal, but while down. Call it V-Wake-up or something.
 

Scraftyko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
734
It might be difficult for some characters, wouldn't?
What would Dhalsim have? EX Yoga flame with full body invincibility? Invincible Yoga Tower?

Maybe they could make it a new universal system. The same command as V-reversal, but while down. Call it V-Wake-up or something.
BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle figured out a good way to give everyone an invincible reversal; they're usually divided between grounded moves with crazy endlag, a traditional DP-style anti-air, or a counter move with 1f startup. I feel like SFV could definitely do something like that, even if they have to recycle some animations to make it happen.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,703
It might be difficult for some characters, wouldn't?
What would Dhalsim have? EX Yoga flame with full body invincibility? Invincible Yoga Tower?

Maybe they could make it a new universal system. The same command as V-reversal, but while down. Call it V-Wake-up or something.
There are already games where every character has an invincible DP. MK11 did this. BBTAG did this. Persona 4 Arena did this before them. But I don't see what would be complicated about Dhalsim having one; just make it a new move if it can't be adapted from his current toolset.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,942
I was not arguing "it can't be done", I'm just wondering what some characters who famously don't have a normal antiair could get without making them less "them". I was particularly thinking of Sim, since, while he has been changed a lot in this game, he still carries 25 years of legacy of being mediocre under close-range pressure. Giving him an invincible DP would solve some his issues on wake up, but wouldn't it make the rest of his game far too strong?
 

Pompadour

Member
Oct 25, 2017
328
Albuquerque, NM
That seems like it would be extremely good for Dhalsim because it would, theoretically, be very hard to punish. He's the archetype that needs to be punished hard for doing a random wake up reversal.

I think they should add more mechanics, like a 2 bar EX reversal or 2 bar V reversal move for everyone. So the 1 bar reversal characters still have an advantage over the 2 bar reversal characters.

At a minimum, I think making a forward roll on wakeup that takes one bar of VT would do wonders.
 

ThatCrazyGuy

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,064
I wonder how many people considered that a hot take?
It’s only a hot take if you disagree with it, as with alot of things on the internet, ;)

Or somebody is a shill if they like something or have an opinion that doesn’t align with yours, hehe.

Anyways, I mostly agree with David. SFV is one of my favorite SF games. My top 2 are 3S and SFV in any order, with USF4 and Alpha 3 close behind. I really enjoy playing V and have fun doing it. It ain’t perfect and has flaws , but I love it. Same with 3S, A3 and USF4.

I have been lucky and found mains in each game that I love. Playing Elena in 3S and in Alex in SFV feels good. I played some USF4 a few weeks back online and at KiT, and picking DeeJay back up was super fun as well.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833

UltraDavid saying he thinks SFV is best 2nd best SF after 3rd Strike.
Complaints aside SFV has been one of the most solid entries in the series. For as much as people currently complain about the likes of Karin, Rashid, and Akuma, they are kittens to how vicious matchups could be in other games. I love me some 3S but... that game has some serious problems. It's still super fun despite that. Alpha 2 is a big blind spot in my SF experience but the impression I've gotten out of it was that it was really solid, I never hear about it being broken or having wack tiers but I've never looked too deeply into it admittedly.
 

Doctrine Dark

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,322
I'm one of those guys that enjoys SF4, SFV, ST, Alpha, EX series, and Third Strike.

There are several things I prefer in other games over the other, but that comes with the territory.
 

ThatCrazyGuy

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,064
Yea, I buy every SF series game, to try it out at least to see if I like it. I get some enjoyment out of all the games.

I bought Capcom fighting jam when it came out and I cherish my SvC chaos disc, heh.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,942
Alpha 2 is a big blind spot in my SF experience but the impression I've gotten out of it was that it was really solid, I never hear about it being broken or having wack tiers but I've never looked too deeply into it admittedly.
It was a fantastic game, but utterly broken. I think it was balanced because everybody was insane?
I still like it much more than 3, though. It's sad that with all the ISMs added in later additions of 3, they never added the ISM "plays like Zero2".

It was also the prettiest for the series, both UI and background-wise, which is always a plus.
 

Scotia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,435
UK
my personal top three SF games are 3S > Alpha 2 > SF5 so I do see where UltraDavid is coming from.

3rd Strike love is blinded by nostalgia

Look at Alex
nostalgia for what? no one played SF3 when it came out so how can they have nostalgia for it lmao

people don't play alex because he looks like shit and has been low tier for most if not all of SFV's life. if you're gonna shit on 3S at least come up with a better reason.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,670
Alex was shit in all his Street Fighter career.

Then suddenly people want Alex back
I like Alex a lot in Third Strike. I like him in SFV, too. That being said, I wish he was a little more viable in SFV (not that he was amazing in Third Strike). Also, I miss his normals from Third Strike. I feel like he had better footsie tools. Oh, and his SFV model could definitely have been better.