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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
If the FGC has to have a "main game" then I pray that it isn't one run by a company as transparently scummy and malevolent as fkn Riot Games. I'll take Capcpom with their innumerable flaws over a bunch of bootlicking union-busting dudebros any day of the week.
People only ever play Capcom
How do I put this lightly

Capcoms not in the conversation anymore?

That conversation is being had with tekken and smash bros. Maybe they can come back into the conversation with sf6 or new marvel, but the ship has beyond sailed on sf or at least this one being a main game. A lot of new people are entering the fgc with out any of the capcom based baggage some of ya'lll have and its great
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
How do I put this lightly

Capcoms not in the conversation anymore?

That conversation is being had with tekken and smash bros. Maybe they can come back into the conversation with sf6 or new marvel, but the ship has beyond sailed on sf or at least this one being a main game. A lot of new people are entering the fgc with out any of the capcom based baggage some of ya'lll have and its great
It's crazy how you're literally in the SFV thread and yet can't get past the tunnel vision. Capcom is still top dog in the FGC. SFV still tops every tournament in viewership, contestants, and money. Capcom surely is not impenetrable (we precisely saw that with SFxT and even moreso with MvCI), but you can't act like Smash is somehow considerable in the FGC when the overlap between Smash players and other players is almost two completely separate circles and in the same breath say Capcom is dead. There's a reason that both people who love and hate SFV all have SFVI on the mind, and that's because its nearly guaranteed to be a hit when it launches, even if it's solid at best.

The ship hasn't sailed on SFV being the main game. SFV has been the main game for almost 4 years now. It'll continue to be that way for a good while too.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
It's crazy how you're literally in the SFV thread and yet can't get past the tunnel vision. Capcom is still top dog in the FGC.
If you say so
People are who run the fgc and the people like other shit, and new folks are coming in with out the capcom baggage and its showing. New non capcom run areas of the world are now popping up in prominence. Seas are changing, but live your truth.

I'll keep saying it, but I guess ya'll figure it out too as time goes on. Unless capcom pulls something out, otherwise yeah
 

MizerMan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,182
Plus, the whole low key trying to shame people because they would play (or prefer) Capcom games that some folk like to engage in is pretty juvenile.

Also, the whole "SFV is dead" talk has been happening since 2016 and people are still wondering when that will happen.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
If your argument is that things are changing, I'm inclined to agree. Capcom isn't commanding a towering lead over the others like late SFIV and launch SFV, but to argue its already dead is nonsense.
Street fighter will never be dead

Capcom isn't the focal point of fighting game conversation due to a multitude of reasons and I stand by that, and I also stand by that being a good thing
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
I can see the Riot fighter having a similar fate as DBF: the first year it's out, it crushes the competition, but by the second year, only LOL fans really continue to play it while the rest went back to their original games.

Really? I don't see this happening at all. The Riot fighter has insane potential to alter the fgc forever. If it "hits" it won't be going away for awhile. Actually being playable online will put it far above most games in the genre instantly. Riot actually giving a fuck and talking to it's community will be another big "oh shit...this is how fighting games are supposed to be run" moment for a lot of people. It could be a legitimate sea change.

That sajam video talking about the constant reoccurring problems of the genre is pretty much him saying "when the fuck will a modern company do right by the genre?" callout. Next year, when KoF and GG disappoint everyone with their silence on their netcode only to "announce" what they're using when the betas come out, people are just going to be sick of it.

And, by way of the Cannon brothers, this game will instantly have a big foot print at EVO.
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
SFV may not be number one anymore but it's certainly number 2 and I don't see that changing.
Didn't you hear? Number 2 is like "number last" now.

Really? I don't see this happening at all.
Fair points indeed... The game's two main strengths will be online and prize pool for sure.
Will the game be good, though? And even if it is, will manage to last longer than Killer Instinct and your average Netherealm game did?

I must admit I have no knowledge of how Riot balances LOL, how often they touch characters, or how much they stick to their vision, so that will be a factor as well.
 
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Deleted member 1102

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,295
Didn't you hear? Number 2 is like "number last" now.

I think someone won't be happy to hear that

tumblr_o9ykh5ZMAk1rkctppo1_250.gifv
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
Will the game be good, though? ...

I must admit I have no knowledge of how Riot balances LOL, how often they touch characters, or how much they stick to their vision, so that will be a factor as well.

On quality of the game... I think there's a chance of it being a dud. I don't know, it's just something about the pressure of making a "riot" fighting game that the team might not be ready for. Teamfight Tactics had a balance patch every week over the summer and now it's down to two weeks in between big patches. And then there's the constant communication between the devs and players. Can this new riot fighting division maintain all of this?

How do they balance not tinkering too much and burning people who usually play the genre while still keeping that Riot freshness people are used to? Every season Riot shakes things up for LoL massively. I believe that's one of their ethos. Always keep it fresh. Like, SFV needs this freshness mentality NOW...but not in the first few years because you have to let a fighting game grow.

I think the Riot FG devs are going to be under immense pressure and it's not a sure thing they will stick the landing.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
I think the Riot FG devs are going to be under immense pressure and it's not a sure thing they will stick the landing.
The thing is, even if they don't at first, that flexibility will work in their favor. Listening closely to feedback and adjusting the game accordingly will prevent it from landing in some unsalvageable hole. As long as the core gameplay is good and it has elements with potential, they'll be able to realign things as need be.

NRS does this to a lesser extent, at least with MK11. If something seems busted, they haven't taken too much time to address it in smaller patches here and there, and they openly talk about it on their Kombat Kasts. And although they seem rushed, they dropped Variation 3s (kind of a V-Trigger 2 equivalent) rather quickly in the game's life, and people are okay with it.

The more I think about it, the bigger Riot earnestly entering the playing field seems. From get-go, there are justified expectations for:
  • Netcode
  • Esports
  • Community communication + feedback
Those 3 things are huge, and they're already in a position to beat every other company out there in those areas.

FighterZ was lacking in all of these, and it also had (and still has) a stagnant gameplay loop without much variety.
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
The thing is, even if they don't at first, that flexibility will work in their favor. Listening closely to feedback and adjusting the game accordingly will prevent it from landing in some unsalvageable hole. As long as the core gameplay is good
That's really what concerns me. Listening to the loudest voices on Twitter and Reddit for balancing the game is bad, listening to them to design the game would be even worse...
That's why I hope the main designers have a core vision of how they want the game to be, and then stick to their guns when a mob complains that the game is too much this or not enough that (and, obviously, that their vision is a good one, but that goes without saying).
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
The thing is, even if they don't at first, that flexibility will work in their favor. Listening closely to feedback and adjusting the game accordingly will prevent it from landing in some unsalvageable hole. As long as the core gameplay is good and it has elements with potential, they'll be able to realign things as need be.

NRS does this to a lesser extent, at least with MK11. If something seems busted, they haven't taken too much time to address it in smaller patches here and there, and they openly talk about it on their Kombat Kasts. And although they seem rushed, they dropped Variation 3s (kind of a V-Trigger 2 equivalent) rather quickly in the game's life, and people are okay with it.

The more I think about it, the bigger Riot earnestly entering the playing field seems. From get-go, there are justified expectations for:
  • Netcode
  • Esports
  • Community communication + feedback
Those 3 things are huge, and they're already in a position to beat every other company out there in those areas.

FighterZ was lacking in all of these, and it also had (and still has) a stagnant gameplay loop without much variety.

When I'm typing out my "FG devs can do better!!11" shit, I always feel bad about leaving NRS out. They are the dev team that did do better and even reaped the massive sales from it. They have it all... but I'm going to be real here, it's not a capcom game. There's something about how standard SF plays that's way more exciting than how MK plays. And the riot game is obviously going for that SF feel, which is great to me.

And the 3 pillars you mentioned are such a necessity now. Communication more so than ever. I love the Riot patches not because how often they happen, but because it gives an insight into their current vision of the game. I was so hyped about the start of season 4 for SFV simply because I wanted to see the "We felt Guile was in such and such place, and this is what we feel about him and his role in the game" in the patch notes.

To go a fucking year without dev insight into the overall mood of the game is some gabage on capcom's part.

I'm so glad this shake up is happening at the start of a new generation. Also, Evo 2022 or whatever is going to be insane.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
If you say so
People are who run the fgc and the people like other shit, and new folks are coming in with out the capcom baggage and its showing. New non capcom run areas of the world are now popping up in prominence. Seas are changing, but live your truth.

I'll keep saying it, but I guess ya'll figure it out too as time goes on. Unless capcom pulls something out, otherwise yeah

The gap between the above statement and the previous statement, where you said that "Capcoms [sic] not in the conversation anymore", is impressively large. I agree with the idea that their influence is not nearly as all-encompassing as it used to be, but Capcom is still clearly one of the biggest players in the FGC. That may not be the case in five years, and I could see them losing their relevance, but as of right now they are still VERY MUCH in the conversation.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
The gap between the above statement and the previous statement, where you said that "Capcoms [sic] not in the conversation anymore", is impressively large. I agree with the idea that their influence is not nearly as all-encompassing as it used to be, but Capcom is still clearly one of the biggest players in the FGC. That may not be the case in five years, and I could see them losing their relevance, but as of right now they are still VERY MUCH in the conversation.
I stand by my previous statement.
I don't think they are , they could be again. But untill capcom fixes this situation, folks are gonna migrate. I think that capcom has lost the collective idea of them being integral to fighting games and people are ok with that. That , in itself is the most devastating loss and its a kinda thing that just... snowballs.

I could go into a whole speal, but i'm not. I don't care to argue this its not gonna go anywhere. Think what you want, if you think i'm wrong that's cool.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,983
Capcom still offer far better prize money for SFV than several other devs do (and even then, its not exactly an amazing amount). They might not be quite as prevalent as they were last gen in the FGC, but they aren't going anywhere until more devs pony up cash (I seem to recall Tekken's prize pot at Evo was embarrassingly small, and do Nintendo even contribute anything to a prize fund for competitions?). Only other dev I've seen really invest in that regard is Netherealm. I'm not familiar with Riot myself, but going by the general consensus, sounds like they might do just that.

Assuming Capcom can nail the reveal and release of SFVI and deliver a decent prize fund for its CPT I can't see them going anywhere, its rather laughable to assume otherwise, unless they plan on learning absolutely nothing from SFV this gen (and looking at how well they've done with literally every non fighting game release in the last few years, I'd be more inclined to believe Capcom will do the right thing).
Or you know, SFV is dead, just like its been for years now ;)
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
The League fighter will be even more proof that the whole "ppl only play SFV for the money" thing is horse shit with how much Riot pumps into the competitive scene.

Not that it'll stop those claims, of course.
 

MizerMan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,182
SFV 2016 = "It's dead."
SFV 2017 = "It's dead. We swear it is."
SFV 2018 = "This time, it will be dead. No bullshit."
SFV 2019 = "Dead. Believe me. For real. Pinky swear. Scout's honor."

With tears in their eyes, the increasingly nervous people will state that SFV will be dead.

The League fighter will be even more proof that the whole "ppl only play SFV for the money" thing is horse shit with how much Riot pumps into the competitive scene.

Not that it'll stop those claims, of course.

It was always a bullshit talking point considering that Capcom doesn't even shell out an amazing amount of money in the first place for SFV.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,983
I already can't wait to see what kinds of numbers each fighter pulls next year for Evo. Either way, I'd expect it to basically be similar to this year, with Smash Ultimate, T7 and SFV being the three main games yet again, and people still moaning about SFV dying.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,756
South Central Los Angeles
I already can't wait to see what kinds of numbers each fighter pulls next year for Evo. Either way, I'd expect it to basically be similar to this year, with Smash Ultimate, T7 and SFV being the three main games yet again, and people still moaning about SFV dying.

If SFV gets a major update (system changes and a new season of characters) it'll have about 2,000 entrants at Evo 2020. If it doesn't, maybe it drops down to 1,500.

The competitive scene ain't dying out. There's gonna be another CPT season, the Olympics, and likely another round of SFL too. The only thing killing it is SFVI. Guilty Gear 2020 won't do it. Riot Fighter won't do it.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,983
If SFV gets a major update (system changes and a new season of characters) it'll have about 2,000 entrants at Evo 2020. If it doesn't, maybe it drops down to 1,500.

The competitive scene ain't dying out. There's gonna be another CPT season, the Olympics, and likely another round of SFL too. The only thing killing it is SFVI. Guilty Gear 2020 won't do it. Riot Fighter won't do it.
Yup, I was thinking of the games coming next year (no idea when Riots launches) but I don't see GG killing it (though I hope that has a good showing, the game looks to be shaping up very nice), and aside from Granblue (which admittedly I forgot existed) I can't recall any new fighters coming in 2020 for Evo - though I suppose KOF XV might be aiming for an Evo slot (and it should totally get one if its released in time, I love me some KOF).

And good point about the Olympics, still blows my mind that out of all the games they go for, its the irrelevant, dying game that is SFV ;) I'm hyped for a hopeful update to the game beyond characters, assuming SFVI ain't coming before 2021/22 then they would be wise to do something to give it a kick up the ass, even for just a year.
 

ThatCrazyGuy

Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,867
Why does anything have to kill SFV, lol. New GG can succeed on its own terms. Its fine.

Goddamn, fighting games aren't the Highlander, heh.

A lot people like SFV, it's not dead. Stop wishing it's dead and play the undead game you love as well.

Or maybe we are all dead. LoL fighter tencent sweet nba China money, come and save us. Make us the thing the fgc always shits on, esports baby.
 

mujun

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,855
I looked through his twitter history, he also said that C. Viper is definitely not happening at this stage.
 

Deleted member 1102

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,295
That's honestly surprising to me given how often she appears in the character stories. Bums me out too as I would've liked her back. Man, SF4 got shafted hard in this game.
 
OP
OP
jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
There's an argument to be made that maybe it should have died given things like the rootkit. And that the fact that it didn't doesn't make the fanbase look great.

But the same could be said for a few games. lol
The only people SFV makes look bad are the mentally deranged weirdos that continue to brainlessly shit on the game three years after the fact.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,856
Miami, FL
I gotta say that including characters in story modes that will never become playable is one of the worst trends in this console generation's fighting games.
 

Deleted member 1102

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,295
I'm still confident Oro and Decapre will release together, I just wonder if they'll come out in November or December.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,239
My fear is how Decapre will turn up. As much I like Lucia, she has faults. I can't believe people here think she's a unga bunga character.

Kage also having the same issue but with more damage output.
 

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,098
Goddamn, fighting games aren't the Highlander, heh.
The only people SFV makes look bad are the mentally deranged weirdos that continue to brainlessly shit on the game three years after the fact.

I don't know why, but the FGC is the only gaming community that treats the genre as a zero-sum game. Like if another game is going to become popular, it has to come at the expense of every other fighting game currently being played. The concept of enjoying more than one fighting game at a time is somehow alien to these people.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,856
Miami, FL
I don't know why, but the FGC is the only gaming community that treats the genre as a zero-sum game. Like if another game is going to become popular, it has to come at the expense of every other fighting game currently being played. The concept of enjoying more than one fighting game at a time is somehow alien to these people.
There are a lot of very vocal, stupid and toxic people in the "community" which is really mostly Reddit and Twitter nobodies. The really bad thing is when those online cretins are enabled by the more toxic well-known "pros" who also engage in the shitty behavior.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
I gotta say that including characters in story modes that will never become playable is one of the worst trends in this console generation's fighting games.
Gotta agree. I'm glad at least that SFV's were clearly dummy/minion characters that had little business being playable, but it's kinda dumb that they couldn't be included anyway just for fun.
 
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