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Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition |OT2| Street Fighter Has Come Home

Rice Eater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
941
Why is there a kill Cammy challenge?
It's because of the end of this match from Canada Cup


Itazan ate a wake up DP and lost. But people wanted to find out if Abigail could kill Cammy had Itazan blocked instead. He had full super with VT remaining. And even though Cammy had around 75% left, Abigail would have been able to kill Cammy if Itazan did block.

And the reason why every combo video starts with a low is because they wanted to emulate what Itazan landed before he ate the wake up DP.
 

Blueblur

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,559
Miami, FL
In terms of communication or amount of new characters/content?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't SFV one of the fighting games with more DLC characters released per year?
I was referring to possibility that potential season pass buyers didn't spend the money because (a) they didn't like the season pass character roster for a given season or did not like not knowing the full roster for a given season (which happened in Season 2 with silhouettes) and/or (b) because the character release dates were poorly communicated and/or never communicated until the week prior to release.

To me my assertions make sense because the hardcore playerbase - those who compete or play online consistently - will always buy most of the new characters but more casual and/or lesser skilled players probably wouldn't since they're not looking to be super competitive in the first place. Instead those players were probably using Fight Money in Season 1 and Season 2 to cherry pick the characters they found interesting. Maybe in Season 3 as well. For example, I didn't buy the Season 2 character pass until the end of Season 2 when it was on sale for 50%+ off.

Anyway, sales data for this year and the online player match data will probably inform their next decision on how and when to sell new characters. I think its safe to assume sales people at Capcom have been observing and analyzing the sales data since SFV released. Heck, at the first post-release SFV EVO panel in 2016 Capcom USA folks went over a Power Point presentation that summarized the best selling costumes (and also revealed the Alex and Ibuki nostalgic costumes that took many months to release) so they definitely review that data. Even the CFN Shop in-game refreshes the rankings of purchases every 2 hours. (Which is super interesting to a data nerd like me!)

By the way, I'm surprised online match data topic touched on in the interview is not something we're talking about. I mean look at this specific quote from Ono in the Eurogamer interview:

Yoshinori Ono: We've worked hard on the game over the years. It's come through a tricky launch, where we had all kinds of comments coming from fans and the media - such as Eurogamer. But I think we've got to a good place now. Things have calmed down in the best sense of that word. When you've got a form of entertainment like this, we're providing a rulebook to create your own entertainment. Those rules need to be well established, and people need to be able to understand them and get onboard with them. I think everyone is at the moment, and all the additions we've made have brought it to a good place. We're still working on it, and we still have around half a million matches a day. That's something that provides us with a massive amount of data - we can view the inputs and outputs of all these matches and use it as research when it comes to which characters need nerfs, which need buffs. That's something we're going to be doing on an ongoing basis.
So they definitely use online matches to inform balance decisions. Woof. I hope that when they're performing analysis they're utilizing statistical methods to weed out the noise and focus on data that matters (such as giving a lot less weight to matches at the lower level of the competitive spectrum). I'd kill to have a look at their data warehouse and everything they're storing, analzying, and the reports they're making (the kind of stuff is my day job).
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,870
So they definitely use online matches to inform balance decisions. Woof. I hope that when they're performing analysis they're utilizing statistical methods to weed out the noise and focus on data that matters (such as giving a lot less weight to matches at the lower level of the competitive spectrum). I'd kill to have a look at their data warehouse and everything they're storing, analzying, and the reports they're making (the kind of stuff is my day job).
I think most FG devs take online play into account for balancing. NRS certainly does. It makes sense, because there's a ton of data they would have access to to be able to look into specific issues under a microscope.

The issue is that SFV's online isn't great, so that kind of data becomes distorted. Like how Urien, Birdie, and Bison become better character in SFV's online than they are offline.
 

Blueblur

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,559
Miami, FL
I think most FG devs take online play into account for balancing. NRS certainly does. It makes sense, because there's a ton of data they would have access to to be able to look into specific issues under a microscope.

The issue is that SFV's online isn't great, so that kind of data becomes distorted. Like how Urien, Birdie, and Bison become better character in SFV's online than they are offline.
Ideally, they would be recording connection details and rollback details per match and could use that to determine which matches to flush completely and which are acceptable. There are many ways to take raw dirty data and clean it so that what you analyze is coherent and trustworthy.

Any data analyst worth his weight in salt does that. But this is Capcom after all so who knows. :-P
 

mujun

Member
Nov 1, 2017
936
I was referring to possibility that potential season pass buyers didn't spend the money because (a) they didn't like the season pass character roster for a given season or did not like not knowing the full roster for a given season (which happened in Season 2 with silhouettes) and/or (b) because the character release dates were poorly communicated and/or never communicated until the week prior to release.

To me my assertions make sense because the hardcore playerbase - those who compete or play online consistently - will always buy most of the new characters but more casual and/or lesser skilled players probably wouldn't since they're not looking to be super competitive in the first place. Instead those players were probably using Fight Money in Season 1 and Season 2 to cherry pick the characters they found interesting. Maybe in Season 3 as well. For example, I didn't buy the Season 2 character pass until the end of Season 2 when it was on sale for 50%+ off.

Anyway, sales data for this year and the online player match data will probably inform their next decision on how and when to sell new characters. I think its safe to assume sales people at Capcom have been observing and analyzing the sales data since SFV released. Heck, at the first post-release SFV EVO panel in 2016 Capcom USA folks went over a Power Point presentation that summarized the best selling costumes (and also revealed the Alex and Ibuki nostalgic costumes that took many months to release) so they definitely review that data. Even the CFN Shop in-game refreshes the rankings of purchases every 2 hours. (Which is super interesting to a data nerd like me!)
They've definitely tried a few different approaches to how they release characters now so I guess that they will use that info to decide how to do it from here on out. Unfortunately for those constantly hungry for new characters (like myself!), it probably won't be the way they did it with season 3 where they announced them all ahead of time and then released one every two months.

I do agree with whoever it was that said earlier in the thread that letting us know there is going to be a long break before the next batch of new characters is a better way to go about it. I'd rather not have to wait till the next Evo but knowing when to expect new characters makes the wait easier.
 

Quacktion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,900
Yo dude what if everyone is wrong and the final character is Terry DUDE WHAAAAAT

.....you know, I have a confession to make here. I came to a realisation recently that I dont really want a guest SNK character in SF, or even SvC 3. Like, I would love to have them if they did happen dont get me wrong, but all I really TRULY want is a Street Fighter game with SNK characters. I love these characters, their movesets and designs, but I dont care about KOF's general gameplay mechanics, the rolls and running and shorthops and whatever, I just want a 1v1 Street Fighter game with Terry & crew. Garou is close, but not close enough to what I want.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,214
Like, I would love to have them if they did happen dont get me wrong, but all I really TRULY want is a Street Fighter game with SNK characters.
Oh my sweet summer child... I think I said exactly the same thing back when CvS1 was announced...
..... sigh.
(I also said a similar thing when SFxT was announced. I think I'm cursed.)
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,259
Meh, I didn't like the idea of KoF characters not playing like them before and am no more receptive to it now.
 

Quacktion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,900
BTW Im still flabbergasted that Kyo of all characters still isnt a guest character by himself in anything. Reminds me of Liu Kang being constantly upstaged by other characters despite being the "protagonist" (tho they did try to remedy that in 11).
 

Scotia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,782
UK
I honestly don't think Kyo has ever mattered outside of KoF. I can't think of a single time where he got the limelight outside of that series. I mean, fuck Iori got a mii costume and he didn't lmao.
 

Annabel

Member
Mar 22, 2019
589
The funny thing about Kyo is that it's not like he's unpopular either.

He was in 5th place in the SNK character poll, making him the highest ranked KOF original character even above Iori who was in 7th.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,214
I can't think of a single time where he got the limelight outside of that series
CvS?

Kyo was at the top of his popularity between 96 and the mid-2000, especially in the whole Asia region (SE Asia in particular). I don't know what the average KOF character popularity was like in South America though.
The KOF brand almost disappearing for so many years, the shift to less affordable arcade machines, and other wildfires (League Of Legend being the latest and more damaging one) have made the entire brand almost vanish, not just Kyo. In the last few years, Terry's popularity has grown in the west, which has made him more relevant (he was a near nobody during the 2000 in Asia from what I could see, at a similar level as Ryo. At least Kim kept his SK fanbase).

As for Iori, he has remained much more consistent than Kyo. Kyo has gone through major gameplay and/or visual shifts in 96, 99, then had to share his top spot with K', then Ash, then Shun'ei, while none of their rivals (Kula/Liz/whoever Shun'ei's rival is) was positioned similarly to Iori's Vegeta trope. Maybe Nameless was a tentative to be K's Iori? Didn't go very far.
Iori's first major shift was in KOF12, 14 years after his first appearance. He and his Vivienne Westwood pants are just much more recognizable. His basic moveset pre-12 was so oppressively good it barely got changed during all these years, making most of his appearances easy to pick (while even Kyo's post-96 rekkas got several reworks). If you've learned how to play Iori at any point since 95, you can be immediately somewhat competent with him in almost any game he's in (except in, like, Puzzle&Dragons).

SNK's "face" has changed several times throughout the years (it used to be Nakoruru at some point...). Terry convincingly replaced Kyo, but it could change to almost anyone. It will probably never be Iori, since you generally don't pick a "bad guy" as your face, but Iori will confortably remain near the top characters along with Mai for the foreseable future.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,881
I was referring to possibility that potential season pass buyers didn't spend the money because (a) they didn't like the season pass character roster for a given season or did not like not knowing the full roster for a given season (which happened in Season 2 with silhouettes) and/or (b) because the character release dates were poorly communicated and/or never communicated until the week prior to release.

To me my assertions make sense because the hardcore playerbase - those who compete or play online consistently - will always buy most of the new characters but more casual and/or lesser skilled players probably wouldn't since they're not looking to be super competitive in the first place. Instead those players were probably using Fight Money in Season 1 and Season 2 to cherry pick the characters they found interesting. Maybe in Season 3 as well. For example, I didn't buy the Season 2 character pass until the end of Season 2 when it was on sale for 50%+ off.

Anyway, sales data for this year and the online player match data will probably inform their next decision on how and when to sell new characters. I think its safe to assume sales people at Capcom have been observing and analyzing the sales data since SFV released. Heck, at the first post-release SFV EVO panel in 2016 Capcom USA folks went over a Power Point presentation that summarized the best selling costumes (and also revealed the Alex and Ibuki nostalgic costumes that took many months to release) so they definitely review that data. Even the CFN Shop in-game refreshes the rankings of purchases every 2 hours. (Which is super interesting to a data nerd like me!)

By the way, I'm surprised online match data topic touched on in the interview is not something we're talking about. I mean look at this specific quote from Ono in the Eurogamer interview:



So they definitely use online matches to inform balance decisions. Woof. I hope that when they're performing analysis they're utilizing statistical methods to weed out the noise and focus on data that matters (such as giving a lot less weight to matches at the lower level of the competitive spectrum). I'd kill to have a look at their data warehouse and everything they're storing, analzying, and the reports they're making (the kind of stuff is my day job).
Cammy needs buffs then. Bring back her Cr.LP and make it +1 on block.

Make all lights +1 on block at most. Laura's LK xx Cr.HP frame trap is a failed design.
 

JusDoIt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,489
South Central Los Angeles
SFV is at 3.9 million sold as of September 30th. Moved a steady 200,000 units last quarter.

It's the 13th best selling Capcom title. 12th is Street Fighter II Turbo on SNES at 4.1 million. Good chance SFV passes it up this quarter.

Seeing those two games back to back is like full circle for me. SFII Turbo was an obsession when I was a kid, and SFV brought me back into playing fighting games (instead of mostly watching during the SFIV years).
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
Its nice to see it keep on ticking along for sure. I look forward to what characters pop up this/next month. I still remember SF2/Turbo really well, all those hilarious rumors on how you can play as the bosses in SF2 came full circle when CE and Turbo popped up... good times.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,259
The funny thing about Kyo is that it's not like he's unpopular either.

He was in 5th place in the SNK character poll, making him the highest ranked KOF original character even above Iori who was in 7th.
I very much question the accuracy of that poll, given how few people actually voted in it (less than 300 for Terry at #1, only 39 for Yuri at #10). It's more than a bit odd that the results are limited to '90s SNK as well.

Kula's certainly left quite an impression among the fanbase, enough for SNK to push her as much as they have (i.e., SNK Heroines poster girl alongside Athena after the latter was #8 with only 52 votes, DoA6 guest character alongside Mai, special attention in the trailer/marketing promoting that gacha game of theirs), and yet she didn't rank in that one at all.

EDIT: In fact, votes spread out among the top ten only added up to 1,023 total while nearly every voter quoted was in their 30s or 40s. Doesn't sound all that reflective to me, but it does explain how Ryo of all people managed to rank. If anything, I should've looked at it more critically when the results were published a year ago.
As for Iori, he has remained much more consistent than Kyo. Kyo has gone through major gameplay and/or visual shifts in 96, 99, then had to share his top spot with K', then Ash, then Shun'ei, while none of their rivals (Kula/Liz/whoever Shun'ei's rival is) was positioned similarly to Iori's Vegeta trope. Maybe Nameless was a tentative to be K's Iori? Didn't go very far.
Shun'ei doesn't have one yet, never got the impression of Nameless being intended as a rival or foil to anyone in spite of backstory linking him to both K' and Kula in particular. Kyo/Iori remain unique in their dynamic, with neither K'/Kula nor Ash/Elisabeth having a comparable competitive spirit or shared animosity (can't really say mutual, because Iori obviously hates Kyo way more).
 
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JusDoIt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,489
South Central Los Angeles
Its nice to see it keep on ticking along for sure. I look forward to what characters pop up this/next month. I still remember SF2/Turbo really well, all those hilarious rumors on how you can play as the bosses in SF2 came full circle when CE and Turbo popped up... good times.
I never saw Rainbow Edition in the wild, so I thought it was a school yard rumor. And then when SFII Turbo came out, I thought people must have been exaggerating what they saw the whole time.

I had no idea Hyper Fighting was inspired by the actual Rainbow Edition hacks until like 20 years later.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
hmm... Nerge Blanka costume. Might well have to get that one, as I'm one of the three people in this world that love Blanka.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,387
Guessing Holiday costumes might be unveiled tomorrow or early next week to get them out of the way before the NA Finals announcement.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,378

This is the scrub quote to end all scrub quotes. Old ass boomers basically cheat because we know how to do fireballs. Jesus
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,150
Anyone notice more issues with connections on PC than on console? Made a new account and ranked is filled with garbage connections but a week or so ago on PS4 it was filled with stable matches.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
lol at the Smash quotes. Personally I thought the inputs for the fighters were made more generous, as its damn easy to pull them off on the Switch's analogue stick. Then again I still don't get what's so hard about performing the fireball motion, its as if practice is a foreign concept... imagine trying to get good at a fighter without practicing and learning... madness...
 

Beil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
59
Yeah but modern gamers have busy lives! After a long, stressful day I just want to kick back, look at some explosions and have men with beards tell me how amazing I am.

I'm not learning things to get good at them! Where's the fun in that!?
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,378
Yeah but modern gamers have busy lives! After a long, stressful day I just want to kick back, look at some explosions and have men with beards tell me how amazing I am.

I'm not learning things to get good at them! Where's the fun in that!?
How am I supposed to learn how to do a fireball motion in between my yearly sessions of subliminally being told "FOLLOW" by the military industrial complex, huh?


 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,836
Pakistan
Yeah but modern gamers have busy lives! After a long, stressful day I just want to kick back, look at some explosions and have men with beards tell me how amazing I am.

I'm not learning things to get good at them! Where's the fun in that!?
HEY NOW!

I come home to deliver pizzas to bring the world back together again while random celebrity cameos are happening around me.
 

Rice Eater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
941
Anyone notice more issues with connections on PC than on console? Made a new account and ranked is filled with garbage connections but a week or so ago on PS4 it was filled with stable matches.
Same here, I play on PC and PS4 with a 1GB fiber connection but my experience is much better on PS4 compared to PC.

Since launch I've pretty much stick with PS4 only. But I decided to rank up my PC account and I've noticed the amount of lag is much worse, even against guys that I remember having little to no issues with when I play on PS4.

I don't know why this is the case and it makes me afraid of abandoning the PS4 version for the PC version.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,881
Same here, I play on PC and PS4 with a 1GB fiber connection but my experience is much better on PS4 compared to PC.

Since launch I've pretty much stick with PS4 only. But I decided to rank up my PC account and I've noticed the amount of lag is much worse, even against guys that I remember having little to no issues with when I play on PS4.

I don't know why this is the case and it makes me afraid of abandoning the PS4 version for the PC version.
Probably because of the FPS drops that happens on PS4, A while back I lowered the FPS cap on PC to test to see if a laggy match "smooth" out... It did.
 

Rice Eater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
941
Just played a ton of SFV again yesterday on PC, it was horrid. I black listed so many people and got so frustrated. Then I hopped back on PS4 and it ran nearly flawless. I even ran into some of the same guys and had no trouble.

Despite all the back lash about SFVs horrid net code the game has always been mostly good for me on PS4. Makes me wonder if PC players are just more likely to have these issues compared to PS4 players.

I actually wanted to cancel PS Plus and play only on PC but that's not possible with how bad the experience is for me on PC. SFV has essentially become a subscription game now because of this lol.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
Despite all the back lash about SFVs horrid net code the game has always been mostly good for me on PS4. Makes me wonder if PC players are just more likely to have these issues compared to PS4 players.
I doubt its platform specific, that said I play exclusively on PS4 and its rare I have a bad match myself. I assume I'm just one of the lucky ones, as the issues very much exist for other people. Hopefully when VI is released they'll put more effort into getting the netcode up to scratch so that its better for everyone. Oh, and get match making to run faster, as its pretty damn slow to get into a match at the moment for me what with the load times and all.
 
Nov 21, 2017
186
On PC in Europe I would guesstimate that 90% of matches are fine. The other 10% ranges from a tiny little bit of rollback that's annoying to the match just breaking. Either way it's no rematch.

That said, I don't go as far as checking stun gauge bars to check for hit confirms, so maybe some of those 90% have an even tinier amount of rollback when it comes to stun bars rolling back, like with this Momochi match at 1:17 (although he said he was looking for the hit spark instead).