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Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition |OT2| Street Fighter Has Come Home
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Easy there. I didn't say she was animated poorly. I said that it feels characters in SFV can be roughly divided into two animation styles, elaborate and conservative, and Sakura falls into latter category. It was a neutral observation, not a value judgement.
To elaborate: a few days ago I rewatched Maximilian's stream on EVO Japan, where they watch and discuss the fights. At one point Max said something about how it felt like there are two teams working on characters because you can feel the difference in animation style, something he pointed out earlier when he first played Poison in SFV. It made sense to me because it echoes my own experience. The image above reminded me of that hence why I responded. I didn't paw through animations, it wasn't a disguised attempt at taking a dump on SFV and I don't have some insane need to prove SF3 or 4 is better.
It goes beyond the issue of a few animations being sub-par compared to the rest.
You know how games have an art director, who makes all the aesthetic choices and assures that consistency is maintained throughout the project? SF5 feels like it should have had a specialized animation director to better homogenize the output of all the animators.
For example, Laura, Ken or Poison have rather discrete yet expressive flourishes. Dictator, Abigail or Cody have more. On the other hand, some characters like Boxer, Claw or Sagat have very few, and I feel they could have been more expressive in that regard. Blanka, Dhalsim or G are over-animated, though it fits their barely-human characteristics (especially if you play Blanka-chan). And then we have Zeku, who's basically SF3's Chunli: an animator flexing his muscles with little regard for the rest of the project.
It's a very subjective thing obviously, and I'm sure we all have different opinions on each character. But it goes further than simply "this character is an eccentric show-off, while this one is a restrained martial artist". In SF3, Alex, Ibuki, Necro and Makoto all have very different types of animation, but they all come together beautifully, in a way that I feel even SF5's best realized characters sometimes lack when put next to each other.
With all the hate I have for SF4, it was less obvious that each character was made by different people. It was cohesive.
I suppose SF6 will call for many different outsourcing companies again, and I hope that they'll find a way to manage to project in a way that homogenize things better.
What the...SFV has great animations. It ain't perfect though, but nothing is.
I do think Sakura has a few weird ones, imo.
I do think Sakura has a few weird ones, imo.
I would say that Third Strike has as many iffy animations (which isn't a particularly large amount). Each game has a few spread throughout. Don't get me wrong, Third Strike is beautifully animated game, but when you are trying to have an expressive animation, and your move has very few frames to do it in, you can get some wonky looking stuff. The same is true for Street Fighter V (and probably every other fighting game that has great animations).
Like, one of Chung-Li's command normals in Third Strike just has her sorta spasm forward with a kick, nearly the first frame of animation has her kick fully extended with her arms out wide. It is a little awkward looking, but in a sea of really nice animations it seems petty to focus on something that looks a tiny bit off. I think Cody's standing light kick in Street Fighter V is a similar story. Both games generally have fantastic animations, both have some awkward ones if you paw through the entire move list of each character (a lot of them will probably be quicker attacks).
That still sounds like total nonsense to me, man. Max most certainly doesn't enhance credibility here. He is pretty quick to regurgitate anything negative about Street Fighter V. Max isn't much better than the Eventhubs comments section when it comes to that game in particular. Like he beats the drum of animation issues with Street Fighter V, but rarely mentions them when it comes to NRS games. That is quite the inconsistency.
I wasn't actually aiming my comments at you, I was speaking in pretty general terms. I didn't suspect that you were specifically, maliciously trying to take SFV down a peg. However, there are a number of bad faith actors in the community who do. Max may not specifically be a part of that, but he has no qualms echoing some of the more ignorant sentiments. At the very least, he is extremely uncritical when it comes to his Street Fighter V takes.
My bad if you thought the criticisms were aimed directly at you. That wasn't my intent (however, I can see how it would be read that way). Also, as clarification, I don't dislike Max, I still watch a fair amount of his content (and enjoy it), but I do find him to be shockingly unreliable when it comes to games he has taken a disliking to. He will frequently speak directly out of his ass.
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While I think the overall animation in the game is good, there's this tendency to pretend its perfect and its not, some of the animations and flourishes are weirdly short, weird key poses and just weird normal usually lights.
Giving away the game huh, somoene doesn't watch max's stuff.
I have watched a lot of Max's stuff.
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I watched a few of his reaction videos for SFV character reveals that I remembered him critiquing the animations in, and he didn't. So I was clearly misremembering that one. I imagine he made those comments during the playthroughs of the characters after they released.
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It wasn't meant to enhance credibility, but to explain how I came to post what I did. Even if I do agree with Max in this particular case, I don't actually see him as an authority on SFV whatsoever. By his own admission, he simply hasn't played the game enough over the years. I don't follow a lot of streamers, but if I'd use one to support my arguments it would probably be someone like Sajam or a pro player.
Anyway, why is it nonsense what I'm saying? Again: I'm not saying Sakura's animations are poor. Hell, I don't think Falke's animations are particularly *poor* if you really look at how she moves her staff. It just doesn't do anything for her since she already lacks charisma as is. But she, Sakura, Poison... their animations all have this somewhat stiff feel to them that characters like Zeku, Blanka and G don't. So my theory was that there are at least two separate teams animating these characters. It's like Iggy says: you can tell there wasn't a supervisor to homogenize the output of these teams.
No harm done. To be honest, I actually tend to avoid any of Max's streams where he plays or talks in-depth about SFV because they invariably cause me to roll my eyes. But it has gotten better after Gill and it can still be fun to watch him and the others commentate fights.
Jeez, I'm not coming across clear, here. It sounds like nonsense to me that there are two distinct teams of animators: An A team and a B team. Like, it may be true, I don't work at Capcom, but it just sorta sounds like the shit someone like Max would say about SFV. Because he has, at times, really ridden the animation thing pretty hard with SFV.
It was never my intent to go in on you ClearMetal. I was always speaking more about the argument (I clearly should have framed things better).
Homie has entire playthroughs of these games where he talks about the animations and models of the characters. like he talks about how shitty mvci looks whilst playing it. Hes done that sort of thing a lot.
I would make the argument sfv feels particular to you because he barely plays it. Max regularly makes trips back to mk9 and x particularly the latter because he enjoys these games. And him enjoying those games whilst being critical is also surrounded be praise. Max for the most part isnt fond of most of sfv, so a it isnt much to focus on outside of the bad stuff. Context and perspective is key. And to paint max as biased in this regard where he spent an entire part of a video dunking on jokers face seems...I dunno missing the Forrest for the trees.
Fair enough. I don't fully agree, but I feel like I sorta side-tracked this thread with all the Max talk.
And I don't want to be rude.
I get it.I get what you feeling I just don't think this in particular is it
Some good vibes then:
I knew they were going to make a video about iDom's win. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I like their other FGC videos so I'm posting it anyway.
I knew they were going to make a video about iDom's win. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I like their other FGC videos so I'm posting it anyway.
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In regards to detailed post recovery animation, the thing is that this is something that they started doing in S2. Characters in S1 don't really have this, it's characters returning to idle pose in a rather basic/normal manner (the only exception being Bison flailing his arms around before crossing them). They started out with Ed, giving him a bunch of neat little animations after some normals and some special moves. Then in S3 they went overboard with some characters like Blanka where he has post recovery animations on every single normal. And then Sagat stands out for not having any post recovery animations whatsover, kinda confirming rumors that he was held back from the first season. They dialed it back in S4 to S2 levels, with it only being applied to some normals and special moves, and they're mostly restrained.
This bit is inconsistent in terms of how it has been applied yeah, but it's due to the game's multi-year development. They tried something new mid-development. 3rd Strike was released as-is and never got any updates. But regardless I think overall the animation quality in SFV is excellent across the board.
The animation flow, etc., can be divorced from the efficacy of technique from a martial arts standpoint. Like, her win animation is just...awkward. Especially the sweep she does. My critique is just in line with other people saying she doesn't use her core and such.
So, looks like Cannon Spike Cammy is being replaced in Fighting Chance after next week. Any idea who's replacing her? I'm hoping to get a shot at Dhalsim's SF2 skin just so I can then have all the costumes I want from that damned Fighting Chance mode...
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lucebuce this post is just for you!
Let me say first that it's nonsensical to judge animation from a still picture. In Art-Eater's dozen tweets never did he use anything other than the picture he was given.
SF4 Sakura does have more memorable and dynamic-looking key poses, helped by the fact that they're basically reused wholesale from SFA. Compared to SFV they're over the top and ridiculous, and makes her SFV incarnation look less interesting. Her medium kicks make the difference in design obvious.
Her classic MK is nonsense, showing that it's her old self that actually doesn't have any idea what she's doing. Also let me say Sakura is one of the better animated characters in SF4.
SFV Sakura is basically a new character, indicated by how they don't reuse anything from SFA. All of her normals and key poses in general are entirely new. I think the intention was to show she a more seasoned martial artist.
Now let's address that one tweet by looking at the HP in both games.
SFV Sakura is turning her core, is putting her whole body into the motion, is even moving her front foot further forward than in SF4 to help her propel herself towards the opponent. And unless you're blind you can easily tell which leg is which. But compared to SF4 she's simply much more restrained.
Her form in SFV is much more classical karate/martial arts now, obvious with how her fist remains straight versus turning it around in the boxing-like haymaker she throws in SF4. It doesn't make it bad animation, it just makes it different.
Let me say first that it's nonsensical to judge animation from a still picture. In Art-Eater's dozen tweets never did he use anything other than the picture he was given.
SF4 Sakura does have more memorable and dynamic-looking key poses, helped by the fact that they're basically reused wholesale from SFA. Compared to SFV they're over the top and ridiculous, and makes her SFV incarnation look less interesting. Her medium kicks make the difference in design obvious.
Her classic MK is nonsense, showing that it's her old self that actually doesn't have any idea what she's doing. Also let me say Sakura is one of the better animated characters in SF4.
SFV Sakura is basically a new character, indicated by how they don't reuse anything from SFA. All of her normals and key poses in general are entirely new. I think the intention was to show she a more seasoned martial artist.
Now let's address that one tweet by looking at the HP in both games.
SFV Sakura is turning her core, is putting her whole body into the motion, is even moving her front foot further forward than in SF4 to help her propel herself towards the opponent. And unless you're blind you can easily tell which leg is which. But compared to SF4 she's simply much more restrained.
Her form in SFV is much more classical karate/martial arts now, obvious with how her fist remains straight versus turning it around in the boxing-like haymaker she throws in SF4. It doesn't make it bad animation, it just makes it different.
lmao, I love how SFV went from having great animation besides a few exceptions. To a mess of a mix bag, NRS level of animation, because of Capcom being cheap by outsourcing. To it turning to a straight up graphical and animation downgrade from SF4. All in just a couple days from that Sakura picture popping up and gaining traction again somehow. I can't with some of these clowns out here man.
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Who is even saying this shit?
I wish that for once we could discuss animations without people equating any criticism, no matter how mild, to "animation in SFV is total disaster".
I think this is the period where a bunch of people are suddenly "experts" on video game animations for a week or so. I bet the "recycled punch animations" and "Kage is made up of dan's animations" pictures are gonna come back too at this rate.
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Everyone in the Art-Eater twitter thread? lol
This old-ass Sakura picture (once again) became an excuse to shit on SFV wholesale. Because of a single dang frame.
You can click on any twitter post involving that sakura image and see for yourself. You can start with the one a couple post above if you like.
Exactly what people are doing on social media, which is why I'm calling those people, clowns.
I remember when Cody came out that same "arguments" about animations were just as annoying as it is now.
Problem is that people do run with that extreme here (not this thread, thankfully), or other places. Sure, they try to hide behind their words with "concerns", but the sentiment is there.
Problem is that people do run with that extreme here (not this thread, thankfully), or other places. Sure, they try to hide behind their words with "concerns", but the sentiment is there.
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Oh, so this is about some bozos on twitter. Since we just spent the last page discussing animations, I thought you were referring to this thread. I apologize for jumping at you like that.
Maybe I sound like a smartass here, but have you guys ever considered not browsing twitter for hot takes on SFV? I stick with official channels and some streamers/pro players, and I don't ever read the comments. I can recommend it to anyone.
Some people, perhaps. But I personally don't like to assume people who criticize SFV aren't doing so in bad faith by default. You'll just end up seeing enemies everywhere. If it turns out people do have some malicious agenda, I'll ignore them. We're talking about animations in a video game, and one game (in the same franchise!) supposedly being better than the other. I usually don't like it when people use this phrase, but in this case... it really ain't that serious.
No, you're right. It's really not serious in the grand scheme of things and I just usually ignore those types of people
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Animation debate will never end, SF6 will be compared to SFV...
If SFVI's animations can favorably be compared to SFV's, then it will have the best in the genre, if not the industry.
At this point I just assume a number of people don't care about the animation and just want an opening to shit on SF5 in general. That and, again, everyone wants to act like they suddenly know what they're talking about when it comes to being a critic on this.
Tried most of the new characters while i could. G is the most busted out of all them. Blanka is kinda fun and I 2-1 a kage which was neat.
It was bad in the beginning when people didn't like the new artstyle compared to 4.
One of the first thing I saw of SF4 was Claw vs Ken. Seriously, Hakan was the only saving grace in this mess. At least he's designed to be ugly, but not offensively so.
I actually got the canon spike cammy costume on the first fighting chance fortune draw of ten. The last couple attempts at costumes required a huge volume of draws, so much that getting Nash's cannon spike dlc depleted my sizable reserve of fight money; I couldn't afford for enough draws to win any of the four King's costumes. (I am missing Blarog's mike and Sagat's SF1 costumes). Slogging through 50 or 100 rounds of survival to get fight money is such a pain. I guess it's worth while to just accumulate fortune tickets.
I spent about 25-30k on that the first time around, and then last week I get it again with my free ticket :/
Curious to see what else'll be in the patch aside from Seth.
Mainly if the PC patch will be removed, if there'll be some hidden balance changes, and if the Hero league will be added. Since SFV seems to be nearing its end, I wouldn't be surprised if they added that league. Kinda hope they don't lol.
Mainly if the PC patch will be removed, if there'll be some hidden balance changes, and if the Hero league will be added. Since SFV seems to be nearing its end, I wouldn't be surprised if they added that league. Kinda hope they don't lol.
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