Study: Association Between Release of Netflix’s 13 Reasons Why & Suicide Rates in the US

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,014
While there was some previous discussion and informal studies about this

(Resetera thread - “13 Reasons Why” Might Be Contributing To Teen Suicide Risk)

There seems to be a more formal study out now.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-04/niom-ro042919.php

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0890856719302886

The Netflix show "13 Reasons Why" was associated with a 28.9% increase in suicide rates among U.S. youth ages 10-17 in the month (April 2017) following the shows release, after accounting for ongoing trends in suicide rates, according to a study published today in Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.
When researchers analyzed the data by sex, they found the increase in the suicide rate was primarily driven by significant increases in suicide in young males. While suicide rates for females increased after the show's release, the increase was not statistically significant.
Results
After accounting for seasonal effects and an underlying increasing trend in monthly suicide rates, the overall suicide rate among 10- to 17-year-olds increased significantly in the month immediately following the release of 13 Reasons Why (incidence rate ratio [IRR], 1.29; 95% CI, 1.09-1.53);
 

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
6,296
Uhhhh....wow. I personally liked the show (after I found out about it, I sped threw the first season). Is it because the show is sort of "glamourizes" suicide or something?
 
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Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I find in hard to believe that teenage boys were watching the show and then committing suicide.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,622
My gf deals with people at risk of suicide and hates this show. This is the very thing she was worried about. If studies like this are out there a real hard look needs to be done at weather it should continue. At least in it's current format.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Unless they're going to look into individual cases and find out if the suicide victims actually watched the show this just seems like a stretch.

For example, the study used a quasi-experimental design, meaning that the researchers cannot make a causal link between the release of "13 Reasons Why" and the observed changes in suicide rates. The researchers cannot, therefore, rule out the possibility that unmeasured events or factors influenced suicide rates during this period.
 

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
6,296
The findings of this study add to a growing body of information suggesting that youth may be particularly sensitive to the way suicide is portrayed in popular entertainment and in the media. This increasing recognition of entertainment and media influence has led a variety of groups, such as National Action Alliance for Suicide Prevention, the World Health Organization, and reporting on suicide.org, to create best practices for talking about and portraying suicide on screen. These guidelines recommend, for example, that the entertainment media should avoid depicting the suicide method used. The entertainment media are also urged to convey the message that help is available and to include accurate information about how people can seek help.
Sort of spoilerish but:

The show did depict the suicide in an extremely graphic fashion. I was a little surprised
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,991
This is sad and frustrating, but not surprising. It’s a disgustingly irresponsible show that romanticizes suicide and targets impressionable teenagers. What could go wrong?
 

Big_Blue

Member
Dec 12, 2017
3,776
Uhhhh....wow. I personally liked the show (after I found out about it, I sped threw the first season). Is it because the show is sort of "glamorizing" suicide or something?
I mean when we finally saw her do the deed, it was done in a very peaceful, artistic and romantic manner. I'm not surprised at all by this.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
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Oct 25, 2017
11,821
United States
Uhhhh....wow. I personally liked the show (after I found out about it, I sped threw the first season). Is it because the show is sort of "glamorizing" suicide or something?
The show portrays suicide as both a relief from personal trauma and a means to force others to confront your reality. This is a very appealing message for at-risk people. What could be better than escaping from your pain and having people finally understand you? People commit suicide for all kinds of reasons, but for young people in particular who often feel misunderstood, this is a dangerous portrayal. It suggests suicide will give them exactly what they want.


I have no idea how much influence this show has had on at-risk youth. The study suggests there is some for sure. I really only watched a little bit of it while my SO watched it. But at-risk people are often looking for assurance that suicide is the answer. This is why suicides tend to occur in spikes. But fiction is a powerful tool too.
 

Cosmonaut X

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,326
Organisations like the Samaritans have been warning about this issue with 13 Reasons Why for a while, and rightly so - particularly given the results of this study, it seems.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,810
I hated this show, and this is exactly why I was afraid of it. Teenagers are so easily influenced. Even if the show was trying to depict suicide as a terrible thing to do (which I don't think it did anyway), there are many out of the millions that watched it who will not look at it that way, but rather see suicide as their best option to escape the pain.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,813
So is there any chance that this study and maybe pressure from concerned parents gets Netflix to cancel the show? I haven’t seen it, but I know some that have who mentioned they’re glad they didn’t watch it when they were teens.
 

Minishdriveby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,237
Psychologists have been stating this since before the show's release. They were adivising against the shows conception during its production when consulted, saying it would increase suicide rates. We've seen this time and time again that corporations don't listen to expert advisory committees when there is profit to be made. Netflix doesn't care.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
4,403
Unless they're going to look into individual cases and find out if the suicide victims actually watched the show this just seems like a stretch.

For example, the study used a quasi-experimental design, meaning that the researchers cannot make a causal link between the release of "13 Reasons Why" and the observed changes in suicide rates. The researchers cannot, therefore, rule out the possibility that unmeasured events or factors influenced suicide rates during this period.
Hence why it's a correlation, not a causal link. It would be impossible to say that 13 Reasons Why explicitly caused this suicides.

The show was a terrible idea and glamorizing suicides does lead to people committing suicide. Every suicide prevention organization was heavily against this show for a reason.
 
Nov 30, 2018
2,078
Hopefully this doesn’t end the show.

I don’t think it will, or else media in general would be over if people actually believed GTA causes violence, or any other sort of media causes something.

If you need help, call somebody, reach out to somebody, do something and avoid certain things.
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,966
With this coming to light, will parents go so far as to sue the makers of the show itself?
How are they responsible for this?
First of all, it's based on a book.
Second, as much as those statistics are unfortunate, depressing TV shows/movies can be found all over. Does this mean there can't be a show that has suicide in its plot? What specifically made those people take their lives just after watching 13 reasons?
Most chances are many of those people that comitted suicide were going to do so sooner or later, can't put all the blame on a single show.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
They need to take this show off Netflix asap.
Netflix seems to be cancelling everything after 3 seasons anyway. Apparently their contracts are structured so that everyone involved with a show gets a big payday after Season 3.......so Netflix would rather toss those shows in the dumpster than spend more money to keep them.
 

CassCade

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,037
That's terribly disturbing, but with how much confidence can the researchers say that the show was an active cause in the increase. The article seems to mostly be about correlation.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
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These things are very hard to judge in my opinion. I am against deleting this show on the basis that some people who are already on the verge may see it and end it - after all, this show does romanticize suicide a bit, by showcasing how the protagonist's suicide indeed hurt the people who she meant to hurt, effectively making it seem (partially, at least) that her suicide did indeed have some positive effects alongside the negative ones. It's understandable this can push people over. On the other hand, I was thinking about suicide a lot a long while ago in a different phase of my life. Instead of pretending the issue doesn't exist, I decided to turn my situation into a catalyst of sorts, to find other people who think about it (both ironically and 100% seriously) and make them understand they are not alone, that a lot of people have their issues, and that we can "laugh about it" instead of crying about it by making jokes on it, while also finding space and time for actual serious discussions about how to handle difficult situations. An online community of sorts, and I am aware it helped people, but I obviously can't exclude the thought that some people, seeing some of things we talked about, were instead pushed towards that. I have no proof of it nor against it, but it's possible.

13 Reasons Why is a show that must be watched with a lucid state of mind and with the right context. It does some things well, and other things poorly. But there's a good point and message it's trying to push, which is how suicide can leave a lasting impact on anybody: those who loved you, but also those who didn't care about you or hate you altogether. But if you concentrate on the teen drama aspect, it's not that difficult to take away the message that if you have nothing to lose, you may as well make the bullies and the others pay by killing yourself and leaving a confession about how they mistreated you, possibly ruining their life in the process as payback. That's not how it should work, at all, and it's devastating if some people took the series in that light, or if they were even simply "inspired" by the simple fact it talks about suicide. But I do think media that tackles suicide should exist, but one has to wonder whether free consumption of such media for any kid, teen or adult in the world is the correct idea. It's a free world, but it's clear such shows are not for everyone.
 

Enduin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,130
New York
Whether the entirety of that increase is the result of the show or not doesn't really matter, they were heavily warned ahead of time when they were creating the show that what they had planned would be harmful by experts they hired to consult and they just ignored them. Any increase is unacceptable.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
625
There's an 18th century book called Die Leiden des jungen Werthers that had a similar effect in its time.

This is also why I dislike depressing and nihilistic movies or movies/tv series humanizing villains and turning them into 'heroes' (looking at you, Breaking Bad) as a rule. They have a way of influencing peoples' perception more than we realize.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Not surprising, this show is one of the most callously offensive I've ever seen.
 

Ginta

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,141
Every single suicide related to this series is one too many and showmakers should think twice if they want to continue.

If "Die Leiden des jungen Werthers" could do it, why shouldn't this series not able to?
 

Cosmonaut X

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,326
How are they responsible for this?
First of all, it's based on a book.
Second, as much as those statistics are unfortunate, depressing TV shows/movies can be found all over. Does this mean there can't be a show that has suicide in its plot? What specifically made those people take their lives just after watching 13 reasons?
Most chances are many of those people that comitted suicide were going to do so sooner or later, can't put all the blame on a single show.
Leaving aside whether people will/should sue the show or the makers of the show, it's not so much that this was a "depressing" series, but rather that it glamorises suicide (making the actual act seem easy, tranquil etc.) and its effects on those around them in a way that has been shown to be dangerous for vulnerable viewers. Suicide prevention organisations recommend against showing methods of suicide, or showing them to be simple/painless, and against the kind of "now everyone is paying attention to me/I'm still here" narrative that 13 Reasons used as it is unhelpful in suicide prevention.

Read these for an idea of what orgs like the Samaritans see as best practice for reporting suicide - https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/best-practice-suicide-reporting-tips/
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
9,920
I mean when we finally saw her do the deed, it was done in a very peaceful, artistic and romantic manner. I'm not surprised at all by this.
I haven't seen the show but it can fuck off if this is how it did this.

You can find interviews or even TED talks from people whose job it is to talk people out of sucide and the people who survive all say the same thing. That it wasn't peaceful or romantic or anything. That at the moment of near death they were hit by terror and regret and the realisation that they were making a mistake.

There's a guy who talks people off of jumping of a bridge (over 200 people he's saved) who gave a TED talk and described how peoples entire state of mind changes the moment they step away from the bridge. Because suicide is usually always a spur of the moment reaction to your mind breaking down from stress or anxiety or pressure.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
4,403
Most chances are many of those people that comitted suicide were going to do so sooner or later, can't put all the blame on a single show.
Yeah, no. This is completely ignoring how influential media can be in whether or not someone takes the step to ending their life. We have tons of research that shows media DOES influence people in these ways. It's all media, not just TV shows. Even news reporting about suicides handled poorly can convince someone to take their own life.

Here's Standford's warning about the show:

"We now share the recommendation of multiple organizations that youth with a history of suicidal thoughts, non-suicidal self-injury, or suicide attempts should not watch "13 Reasons Why."
And here is the American Foundation For Suicide Preventions' guidelines.

Hopefully this doesn’t end the show.

I don’t think it will, or else media in general would be over if people actually believed GTA causes violence, or any other sort of media causes something.

If you need help, call somebody, reach out to somebody, do something and avoid certain things.
No one is saying it causes anything. It influences people. That's the problem and it's a problem that many people ignore, unfortunately. It's not an issue that should be hand-waved away. Lives are worth far more than Netflix's need to make the show.
 
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whatsinaname

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,014
Wasn't the show made with the help of mental health experts?
https://www.syracuse.com/entertainm...3_reasons_why_told_them_not_to_release_i.html

Among the people consulted, some did warn them.

About a month before the release of "13 Reasons Why," Dan Reidenberg said he was contacted by Netflix and asked to provide guidance. Reidenberg, a psychologist, is the executive director of Suicide Awareness Voices of Education, a national organization. He said he told Netflix that they shouldn't go ahead with the project.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,058
Does the study cover any increase in suicide prevention?

I look at this show as a means to help people not suffereing from depression to understand how someone can be driven to suicide. I certainly feel more sensitive to these factors and some people in past discussions have expressed similar sensitivity.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,991
How are they responsible for this?
First of all, it's based on a book.
Second, as much as those statistics are unfortunate, depressing TV shows/movies can be found all over. Does this mean there can't be a show that has suicide in its plot? What specifically made those people take their lives just after watching 13 reasons?
Most chances are many of those people that comitted suicide were going to do so sooner or later, can't put all the blame on a single show.
How are they responsible?

They purposefully made a show expressly targeting impressionable youths and dangerously romanticizing suicide. This is despite being warned and cautioned against making it by various professionals who foresaw this outcome.

How are they, and Netflix, not responsible for the work they chose to adapt, create, and market?
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
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Glorifying a revenge fantasy through suicide is so blatantly sending a horrifying message that romanticizes suicide.
 

Palantiri

Member
Oct 25, 2017
537
Looking at the abstract for that study - the only link between the show and the suicide rate is the month it was released? That seems tenuous when there doesn't seem to be any control for the victims actually having watched the show. Obviously the increased rate is suspect and should warrant some additional analysis, but to attribute it to a t.v. show's release without more rigorous analysis seems opportunistic.

I can acknowledge that the show touched on some major issues and perhaps invested too much in romanticizing the actions the victim took - and it may well have led some at risk people to reevalute their options - but this particular study seems to have reached a study that supported their conclusion.