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Subnautica's sound designer is apparently racist and transphobic. [Update: Fired]
- Thread starter CannonFodder52
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Can we get a better definition of what thread whining is? Because I see much worse examples in non-political threads that go by without a problem. Now I guess this post can be considered thread whining but really I'm just legitimate curious because if anything this thread gives off the wrong impression on whether an open discourse is allowed on this forums.
already got the game before becoming aware of this. i wont be purchasing any more titles from the company while that employee is still there. i appreciate cosumer-alert threads like this. so much shameful thread whining on the first page, some of you need to get some perspective
The problem is that the latter isn't an actual option. I'm not making a value judgement here, I'm just talking about how to most effectively make actual progress. Those that have have made great achievements for social justice have two things in common; their ability to inspire empathy in a way that changes hearts and minds, and to focus on specific, actionable goals. That is the end game. There is no "fuck off and leave us alone" button.
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I feel its also not okay to have the rest of team be affected aswell - Which unfortunately is what this individual's remarks will be causing. From my post a page back:
And while I agree with that for the most part is there any better way to get a message across? Other than being loud and not buying the game.
The rest of the team could have easily not been dragged in this mess, it's on the dirtbag that they're dragged in this.
If they have any complaint about it they can redirect them to the teammate who started this shit.
we can use any reason to not buy a game. This company employing someone with distasteful and offensive views is totally valid. Tweeting the developer that you are happy for their game but cannot purchase it because of their lack of action on said employee is also valid.
For as much as this forum sucks the dick of capitalism it really doesnt like when it and free markets to try and change the gaming landscape for better. Thinking you are entitled to get to like everything without having to hear about the ethical dilemmas created by consuming it. be it this game for knowingly putting money into the pocket of a racist fuck, or food industrial complex that revels in the killing and torture of animals or the working conditions of those who make our phones and games.
fuck that guy, fuck the game he took part in. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, thank you to this community for believing we can pull gaming into an era of equal representation and ideas. Its still very much a boys club and boys will be boys attitude but we can be an effort for change and threads like this are evidence of it.
For as much as this forum sucks the dick of capitalism it really doesnt like when it and free markets to try and change the gaming landscape for better. Thinking you are entitled to get to like everything without having to hear about the ethical dilemmas created by consuming it. be it this game for knowingly putting money into the pocket of a racist fuck, or food industrial complex that revels in the killing and torture of animals or the working conditions of those who make our phones and games.
fuck that guy, fuck the game he took part in. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, thank you to this community for believing we can pull gaming into an era of equal representation and ideas. Its still very much a boys club and boys will be boys attitude but we can be an effort for change and threads like this are evidence of it.
Then i come crashing back into this fucking reality
I think they prefer you contact the staff about moderation policies rather than try and discuss it within a thread.
That said I'm not exactly sure what discourse isn't being allowed here unless it's siding with the guy. There's really no defense for his opinions. If you're referring to boycotting due to 1 person the thread is also not about that as stated in the OP.
For me personally it put this gentlemen on my radar and the company he represents as a result. Based on their reaction or inaction in the coming days it informs my future purchase decisions on their products. Or at least my level of comfort doing so. Also serves as a reminder to try and not be a piece of shit in my own life. Lol.
Social media is where a lot of modern discussion happens; it is manifestly political discussion. Minimum standards in a workplace are a deeply important part of the context of our lives; they represent the everyday crossroads of personal and collective interest.
People advocating against the rights and acceptance of others don't get to hide from the natural criticism it recieves by claiming that expression against it is tantamount to persecution. Your comment didn't specify reactions to the extreme, just about reactions to the behavior. You or anyone arguing that the best way to respond (in general) to issues of sentiments of racial superiority or gender exclusion is to be silent gives every appearance of tipping your hand. I think you're talking out of the side of your mouth here.
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I do think that as a community, we should make some kind of post we can send to Unknown Worlds directly detailing them of this incident (and before other sites will pick up on it and they have to learn it that way which sounds rather ''direct'' to me). If they are unaware of these matters, i feel that they should be informed. I would happily make a draft message that can be sent, perhaps a staff member would want to help out with that aswell.
I have been watching this topic for a while now and whilst a lot of is it disdain against that individual, an increasing number of users are asking if the dev has responded, which evidently is not the case. We are not in charge of deciding what should or should not happen with their sound designer, but at least, i think it would send a positive message across if we contact them directly behind the scenes and inform of these matters.
Speaking of which, i will contact Nicole on this to see if there is a possibility regarding that. Regardless if we are obliged to do this (I don't think ERA by itself is) i think its a nice gesture to do, from a forum community to a game developer.
Sure, this is why this is so problematic in the first place - One individual makes consequences for the rest. I have written on this before earlier in the topic, so i won't go to repeat myself, but i do think that, if they are still unaware of it at this stage, i can imagine they wouldn't like sites like Polygon, Kotaku ''suddenly'' reporting in on this.
Essentially, posts that suggest that the thread should not exist, asking "who cares," etc.
Boycotting something often punishes people who aren't involved. Unless you're opposed to all boycotts, I think you need to be able to justify why one boycott is okay and the other is not.
Posts that suggest the discussion should not be happening are the broadest meaning of thread whining. You can send a PM to any of the moderators/administrators if you need more clarification beyond the Terms of Service or the General FAQ.
If something about a game or its development is problematic, it should absolutely be addressed officially.
Every game has its own community, and the developer is one of its primary shepherds. Their response, or lack thereof, matters.
I'm not saying the criticism is misplaced or that it shouldn't happen, just that it shouldn't be confused for meaningful political action. It's an HR issue.
I also don't think it's "persecution," but it's important to recognize that many people will. The young right is extremely reactionary; their whole worldview exists largely in defiance of the left, and the notion that the left is trying to "purge" or silence them only serves to galvanize them.
That's usually the part where they end the employee, make a public statement saying that they're sorry if anyone took it the wrong way but it doesn't represent them in any way.
They haven't done this so they're clearly happy with this being the face of their company.
I have to say that i worry about the basis on which we discuss the merits of not consuming something that comes from someone with negative ideals, that is, that we are consumers and consumption means condonance, which i don't feel is true. Though, in another sense, this admittance that disengaging with negative people is more important than consuming something that might entertain us is a positive one, though i rarely ever see it put like that, even if i sort of believe that to be what's happening.
You're saying that responding to these assertions about race/gender where they appear isn't meaningful. You're making a faulty threshhold claim that an action isn't worthwhile because "it isn't enough." People responding with words isn't mutually exclusive from any other means of political action, but you're making the fallacious point that it is.
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I don't think any boycot is okay. I felt the same with the Witchfire thread and i feel the same here. Unfortunately, its a rather natural flow of happening.
All because this one individual did not think of the consequences. Either way, i am not feeling for repeating more of the same disdain here, and rather look for a way to see if we can actually help Unknown Worlds out. Ofcourse, others should go ahead and voice their opinion, but after that very lengthy post, i think i have said enough, lol.
That is not a great assumption to make, i feel. For all we know they are completely unaware of this yet. Which is why i have raised the idea to contact Unknown Worlds about this, as ERA Community.
The notion that boycotts are not okay suggests an obligation for consumers to spend as opposed to an obligation of companies to meet the demands of the people who keep them in business. Boycotting is a good way to make clear to a company that such behavior is not okay.
Saying "it's an HR issue" is a little laughable considering incidents that have happened recently in games/journalism where HR will go to bat for the company over the individual
It seems like there are some people here that actually believe that. That if you're not supporting every game, you're hurting devs. It's that kind of mentality that allows the consumer to get walked all over by publishers inserting more and more insidious anti-consumer shit into their games.
No, they are completely aware of this. This guy has a lot of deleted tweets now from where he was talking to people about it. I didn't manage to see them before they were deleted, but he's still there in the replies and people are mentioning "your team" towards the "Tweet is not available"
He also has this tweet afterwards
Where its getting passed off as trolling instead of as the racist garbage that it is.
And I hope no one pushes the "maybe he wasn't really being transphobic"
But its a Gab account, so I don't know why people want to give him the benefit of the doubt anyways
Ofcourse.People should vote with their wallet. I do think that if those people don't want to buy this game because of this guy, thats perfectly fine. I do think its different when you dont buy the game because of the whole team itself or the developer in general.
See:
By the way, its surprisingly easy to contact them, so i don't think its difficult to send a private message across making them aware of these matters before Kotaku/Polygon pick up on it.
Then i think they should be contacted anyway just to point out that this is indeed problematic.
Also, the Apache Helicopter meme, as ive learned from this very thread is not so much racist as it is indeed trolling - Its the comments preceding it and that are in the OP that are way more problematic.
They are certainly aware, the guys twitter was blocked immediately when the designer mentioned it.
In the meantime, the sound designer guy is on the first photo on the company's twitter.
The attack helicopter isn't trolling, its transphobic and used to attack trans people's identities. All of his other posts are directly racist.
I'm not authorized to view this tweet. Can you screenshot it?
The tweets are protected now, so its locked up. You might need a screendump for that, but if you do, send it to staff first. I have no specific idea if screendumping closed tweets (although its obvious why this was done) is invading privacy or what not, so better be safe than sorry.
Till today i always thought it was just a joke, never knew about how this was actually an insultive comment to make.
I was talking about the other posts yeah. They should be made aware that those posts are problematic - Responding to the helicopter meme as ''trolling'' is not the main concern, the racist tweets are.
Hope he gets punished and they release a statement soon, game is very good and doesn't appear to have those kind of views in it (the only thing i've seen in terms of progressive/regressiveness in the game leaned progressive) they really shouldn't let it be stained by this person.
Noone posted the update?
https://twitter.com/Sy1K1/status/960587908599103488
I dont know how to embed a tweet. lol
Media tags, or you could take a picture of it.
OP
OP
I was the one who got the image as I checked her twitter just now... but if this is against one of those new rules ill just take it down
Its no longer locked/protected. But I'm glad to hear that the subnautica devs took a hard stance on this.
The consumer does not owe creators a goddamn thing. It's the creators' onus to make a product that people want to buy, and if the consumer does not want to buy it because someone on the dev team is quite vocally racist and transphobic, the consumer can choose not to support the dev for that or for any other reason they want. If an employee is generating bad PR for a game because of his or her racist or transphobic views, they can choose to ignore or to rectify it.
Good. :)
I hope I'm misunderstanding what you're implying here (it's vague), but just in the case that you were implying this situation is unfairly targeting someone:
This is newsworthy because the person doing it is a public figure through their work on the game. The negative connotation for something being a "witch hunt" comes from the accusations being untrue and maliciously targeted. People are looking at public assertions and quips, not innuendo and fabrications, and the response from people who don't like what they see is criticism.
If he actually got fired that's awesome. Good on subnautica's dev team or whoever made the decision. Shame there's so many people (well really only a few) bemoaning the lost of a toxic individual because their "work was amazing".
He also disappeared from their employee page that was linked earlier: https://unknownworlds.com/about/
Oh, I didn't notice that he was on Gab. Yeah, he's definitely transphobic based on some of the comments.
But yes, don't post private posts, THAT isn't okay, even if he's an ass.
But yes, don't post private posts, THAT isn't okay, even if he's an ass.
What a surprise, actions have consequences.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I see a substantial amount of people, both ITT and outside this forum yet also participating in the convo, yearning for the days of old where gamers would just enjoy video games without factoring the politics, ideologies, opinions, etc of the creators into their decisions to purchase/support a game. Their arguments tend to hinge on the whole freedom of speech thing, which gets interpreted as the creators of games being entitled to a prosperous career regardless of any questionable, or unpopular opinions they may have.
Those "good old days" were mostly before the prevalence of social media. Ignorance was bliss, and most gamers would have to put a decent effort into discovering the controversial views of game developers. Nowadays, not only are said devs stating their views publicly via a smorgasbord of online outlets, but info like SuperPAC donations and the like is a bit more accessible.
Of course, gamers who care about this sort of thing can also use the same social media outlets to draw more attention to these opinions and do things like creating this thread, which then shines a spotlight on said devs even outside the user base of this forum. The gamers who, in an earlier time, would be oblivious to the controversial opinions and views of the people responsible for creating the games they consume, end up seeing the reactions of other gamers to these views and then will be factoring this information into their game purchases, one way or another.
The thing is, all of these people in this long chain have the very same freedom of speech that the game developers do. Freedom to say these devs are pieces of shit for having any kind of views that don't line up with their own, including but not limited to transphobia. Freedom to "vote with their wallets", so to speak, and not purchase games that contribute to the livelihood of these devs. It's the brave new world we live in, for better or for worse. We all just need to get used to it, and adapt if necessary.
Those "good old days" were mostly before the prevalence of social media. Ignorance was bliss, and most gamers would have to put a decent effort into discovering the controversial views of game developers. Nowadays, not only are said devs stating their views publicly via a smorgasbord of online outlets, but info like SuperPAC donations and the like is a bit more accessible.
Of course, gamers who care about this sort of thing can also use the same social media outlets to draw more attention to these opinions and do things like creating this thread, which then shines a spotlight on said devs even outside the user base of this forum. The gamers who, in an earlier time, would be oblivious to the controversial opinions and views of the people responsible for creating the games they consume, end up seeing the reactions of other gamers to these views and then will be factoring this information into their game purchases, one way or another.
The thing is, all of these people in this long chain have the very same freedom of speech that the game developers do. Freedom to say these devs are pieces of shit for having any kind of views that don't line up with their own, including but not limited to transphobia. Freedom to "vote with their wallets", so to speak, and not purchase games that contribute to the livelihood of these devs. It's the brave new world we live in, for better or for worse. We all just need to get used to it, and adapt if necessary.
Seems like it got unlocked. The Vagabond one should be in the OP.
Sure, i have no problems with that. But when people see ''Man fuck this team'' or ''Fuck this dev'' and thus speaking in general, then they are blaming the entire team for it, which i feel is unjustified. Now that the sound designer is fired, i expect a statement soon. Props to Unknown Worlds for the quick response.
User Banned (3 Days): Thread derailment and false accusations of witch hunts.
Unbelievable. This thread is an embarrassment.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to be part of this community. Seems like the witch hunt is finished.
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