Sucker Punch: You can die really quickly in Ghost of Tsushima

Son of Sparda · May 17, 2020

After the recent showing of the game I know a lot of people were worried about the game being easy so I thought this was relevant enough to warrant its own thread.

In a recent episode of PlayStation podcast which featured an interview with Nate Fox and Jason Connell from Sucker Punch, Nate Fox said this about the combat in Ghost of Tsushima:

We have this phrase that we use to describe the combat in the game: Mud, Blood and Steel.
We wanted it to feel really really grounded and lethally precise. If you've ever seen a samurai movie you know what it's like. These men cut each other down with a single stroke of their sword and to capture that samurai movie, fight is very different than a lot of other games because it means you can die very quickly and your enemies can too. And that took us a while to get right but we are very pleased with the results and we think it shows up well on the screen.

You can listen to the podcast from here (this bit starts in around 28-29 minutes mark)

Lock if old or unnecessary.

Dest · May 17, 2020

i'll be sold on the combat if i can slice a dude, sheathe my weapon, turn around then watch him become a fountain and fall over

Expy · May 17, 2020

Death is usually quick, or at least cripples the victim, which isn't very "gamey". Interesting to see how they balance reality and gameyness.

Lord Fanny · May 17, 2020

They did such a terrible job of showing the actual combat in that State of Play lol. So, so unclear about several things. I remember reading that they were going to have some more in-depth looks later, which is good, but I kind of wish they would have just said something like, 'I know you want to see combat, but we'll have a much closer look at that in a few weeks' or something like that, because I feel like they just made it more confusing. I still don't think we ever got a clear answer about what those weird little dots were or how they were utilized. Such a bizarre segment in otherwise solid look at the game.

Imitation Of Life · May 17, 2020

All the people talking about how easy it looks will probably end up playing on easy mode.

J75 · May 17, 2020

As someone that prefers easier experiences, I didn't mind the difficulty that they showed in that state of play video at all.
So I hope that an easy mode is still there as an option for people like me. I personally liked it how it was on the video.

Deleted member 6263 · May 17, 2020

So if I'm understanding this correctly, it's like the Dark Souls of Sekiro.

Edit: guys I'm just making a dumb DS joke.

Lacrimosis · May 17, 2020

Seems like everyone at Sony is bad at messaging, lol.

Loudninja · May 17, 2020

J75 said:
As someone that prefers easier experiences, I didn't mind the difficulty that they showed in that state of play video at all.
So I hope that an easy mode is still there as an option for people like me. I personally liked it how it was on the video.

They game has difficulty settings.

Lord Fanny · May 17, 2020

Stiltzkin said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it's like the Dark Souls of Sekiro.

If this game on Normal is as hard as Sekiro was I'd be massively surprised lol. It's still a game made for mass market appeal in mind. But there is supposed to be multiple difficulty levels so I imagine if this is accurate, some of the higher ones will be quite hard.

Son of Sparda · May 17, 2020

Lord Fanny said:
I still don't think we ever got a clear answer about what those weird little dots were or how they were utilized.

I remember him using one when he did the slash that cut that dude's arm off and it seems like you get those orbs as you kill enemies but yea, I'm curious to know what that L1 + R1 move is (which supposedly will use 3 orbs?) and what are all the ways you can use those orbs.

KillLaCam · May 17, 2020

I hope so. It always looked way too easy to me in the previews

ElephantShell · May 17, 2020

Lord Fanny said:
They did such a terrible job of showing the actual combat in that State of Play lol. So, so unclear about several things. I remember reading that they were going to have some more in-depth looks later, which is good, but I kind of wish they would have just said something like, 'I know you want to see combat, but we'll have a much closer look at that in a few weeks' or something like that, because I feel like they just made it more confusing. I still don't think we ever got a clear answer about what those weird little dots were or how they were utilized. Such a bizarre segment in otherwise solid look at the game.

I think the guy demoing was just too good. Never made a mistake, hit every counter opportunity, made it look very easy. For all we know that's tough to do.

Loudninja · May 17, 2020

A dev playing their game most like will always make something look easy.

ElephantShell said:
I think the guy demoing was just too good. Never made a mistake, hit every counter opportunity, made it look very easy. For all we know that's tough to do.

WHo ever played it most likely played the game hundreds of times.

Dark Ninja · May 17, 2020

Hopefully that was an easy difficulty that was shown the enemy ai looked terrible. One time he killed a guy right in front of another and they didn't react at all they were still in guard duty role.

Ploid 6.0 · May 17, 2020

I loved Bushido Blade and I've been wanting more games like it for a long time. There are some good ones that came, and recently for the past year I've been enjoying For Honor, especially the mission mode on no hud mode. Bring this game on!

Lord Fanny · May 17, 2020

ElephantShell said:
I think the guy demoing was just too good. Never made a mistake, hit every counter opportunity, made it look very easy. For all we know that's tough to do.

I'm not really talking about it being easy, I'm talking about conveying what is happening and why. Such as the dots thing, as I mentioned, but other things. The way the slow motion was utilized with the three enemies at the gate, the different stances, this whole thing about apparently getting killed in one hit, etc. None of that was explained or really conveyed at all in that segment. There are still people even now who don't understand what happened there. It was just poorly done as a showcase in that particular segment, everything about the combat was just glossed over.

Soriku · May 17, 2020

Well, the enemies sure died pretty quickly.

I wonder how most boss fights will turn out.

darkwing · May 17, 2020

this is what i expected, in that first strike, if you missed your slash you get impaled by the spear

joeblow · May 17, 2020

That sounds FANTASTIC! With the confirmation that this game will be a challenge (especially without the fake difficulty of making enemies attack sponges), I'm all in.

The only thing preventing me from getting it day one is that I am on a PS4 fast when it comes to new, major releases in anticipation of extra PS5 bells 'n whistles. I patiently waited for the PS4 to buy TLoU, and was rewarded with playing the technically improved version.

Ploid 6.0 · May 17, 2020

ElephantShell said:
I think the guy demoing was just too good. Never made a mistake, hit every counter opportunity, made it look very easy. For all we know that's tough to do.

Yeah I wondered about how he said you needed to be precise and proceeded to deflect arrows like a boss. I noticed the archer always made a noise before each fire, so it should be a good signifier to help you deflect, like Metal Gear Rising's light flash on certain enemies before they attack. I look forward to people falling on their face thinking this is going to be easy then. Time to die in a open world.

Speaking of time to die, I bet when you learn to counter and stuff you'll feel like it's not difficult, just unforgiving. I remember thinking that about Demon's Souls. It felt so easy after a while, but it was easy because I knew what not to do and how to avoid being punished for mistakes.

Artdayne · May 17, 2020

The first Infamous game made you feel like a glass cannon. Your super powers were awesome and devastating but at the same time a couple bullets could mark the end for you. If they manage that balance in this game as well that'd be very rewarding.

Chaos2Frozen · May 17, 2020

That's pretty ballsy for a big Budget triple A game.

"This game is bullshit! The enemies are so cheap! I can't do anything!"

Ploid 6.0 · May 17, 2020

Chaos2Frozen said:
That's pretty ballsy for a big Budget triple A game.

"This game is bullshit! The enemies are so cheap! I can't do anything!"

Reminds me of Demon's Souls. People will realize unforgiving is what they may want, something to keep them on their toes. The sense of accomplishing something is much better when a game doesn't take it easy on you. I hope it's done well.

Giant Bomb on Demon's Souls Quicklook.

"I have a love/hate relationship with this game. It's really good and I appreciate it for what it is, but it's way too hard for people who aren't Ghandi or Masochists."

Quick Look: Demon's Souls

Like dark fantasy? Hate yourself? Then Vinny has a game for you!

www.giantbomb.com

JusDoIt · May 17, 2020

Stiltzkin said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it's like the Dark Souls of Sekiro.

Doesn't seem like it. At all. I doubt you'll fight any enemies with large health bars (tho there will likely be armored warriors who require different approaches) and it probably won't challenge your pattern recognition as intensely.

Mohsenix · May 17, 2020

Lord Fanny said:
They did such a terrible job of showing the actual combat in that State of Play lol. So, so unclear about several things. I remember reading that they were going to have some more in-depth looks later, which is good, but I kind of wish they would have just said something like, 'I know you want to see combat, but we'll have a much closer look at that in a few weeks' or something like that, because I feel like they just made it more confusing. I still don't think we ever got a clear answer about what those weird little dots were or how they were utilized. Such a bizarre segment in otherwise solid look at the game.

I guess they were just showing off the two different play styles, samurai and ghost. They didn't go into details like they with the exploration bit, I'm sure they'll release more in depth videos on combat later.

sora87 · May 17, 2020

Better have difficulty options then, I'm much more interested in story and exploring the world over silly one-hit kills or whatever.

Lord Fanny · May 17, 2020

Ploid 6.0 said:
Reminds me of Demon's Souls. People will realize unforgiving is what they may want, something to keep them on their toes. The sense of accomplishing something is much better when a game doesn't take it easy on you. I hope it's done well.

Chaos2Frozen said:
That's pretty ballsy for a big Budget triple A game.

"This game is bullshit! The enemies are so cheap! I can't do anything!"

It's going to have an easy mode and I guarantee you normal mode isn't going to be nearly as punishing as you guys are imagining lol. This is a product for main market appeal.

darkwing · May 17, 2020

i bet you can be killed by one hit, I don't see a life bar

John Frost · May 17, 2020

sora87 said:
Better have difficulty options then, I'm much more interested in story and exploring the world over silly one-hit kills or whatever.

Already confirmed.

Loudninja · May 17, 2020

Chaos2Frozen said:
That's pretty ballsy for a big Budget triple A game.

"This game is bullshit! The enemies are so cheap! I can't do anything!"

Not really you can heal yourself atleast.

Shopolic · May 17, 2020

Chaos2Frozen said:
That's pretty ballsy for a big Budget triple A game.

"This game is bullshit! The enemies are so cheap! I can't do anything!"

Yeah, we can expect lots of demands for an update to make the game easier!
Although I think a game like GoT will have some difficulty settings for people who don't like quick deaths.

Ploid 6.0 · May 17, 2020

Lord Fanny said:
It's going to have an easy mode and I guarantee you normal mode isn't going to be nearly as punishing as you guys are imagining lol. This is a product for main market appeal.

Well that's good, and hopefully the grounded type difficulty won't have to be unlocked. On pc I love love love difficulty mods, they make the games so much more interesting and enjoyable.

Mechaplum · May 17, 2020

Best thing is if they kept normal mode "easy" but have a bushido blade mode for those looking for a challenge. Would also be nice if they have a story mode as well for those who are less interested in the combat.

Jayembi · May 17, 2020

I hope it is so, that in the same way that you can kill enemies with a single blow they can do the same with you.

Lord Fanny · May 17, 2020

Mohsenix said:
I guess they were just showing off the two different play styles, samurai and ghost. They didn't go into details like they with the exploration bit, I'm sure they'll release more in depth videos on combat later.

Apparently, some have said SP said they'll be releasing more video about the combat, so that will be good. As far as this State of Play, though, I still don't think it was a good showing of the combat, at least on the samurai style side or whatever they're calling it.

yurr · May 17, 2020

nowyouhavemyattetion.gif

Domcorleone · May 17, 2020

I'm hoping they have a Bushido blade difficulty level with no indicators. I want to be scared every time I'm about to engage and feel like a badass samurai when I succeed. I will bow only to worth opponents.

i wonder what this means for duels with bosses and how stances play a role in it all.

Callibretto · May 17, 2020

Lord Fanny said:
I'm not really talking about it being easy, I'm talking about conveying what is happening and why. Such as the dots thing, as I mentioned, but other things. The way the slow motion was utilized with the three enemies at the gate, the different stances, this whole thing about apparently getting killed in one hit, etc. None of that was explained or really conveyed at all in that segment. There are still people even now who don't understand what happened there. It was just poorly done as a showcase in that particular segment, everything about the combat was just glossed over.

they did that deliberately I think. I think they just want people focus on how cool it can look and not bother with the in depth mechanic for now. they did say they have a lot more to show in the future. we haven't seen things like skill tree, how different armor will affect the playstyle, that yellow orb you mention, the stance, etc

Chaos2Frozen said:
That's pretty ballsy for a big Budget triple A game.

"This game is bullshit! The enemies are so cheap! I can't do anything!"

TLoU1 had you instant killed if grabbed by clicker

Fredrik · May 17, 2020

It'll be interesting to see how they manage to balance the one-hit-kills so it's still fun and doesn't become frustrating or plain boring. Getting insta killed is rarely fun, I hate it to be honest. And doing insta kills in open fights isn't fun either, it usually ends the fun. And what's the pay off from slowly using stealth to insta kill if you can do it in open battles as easily?

Lunchbox · May 17, 2020

I wasn't concerned, after seeing the gameplay I'm all in I actually hope it isn't too difficult :P

Armadilo · May 17, 2020

Stiltzkin said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it's like the Dark Souls of Sekiro.

No not every game is dark souls.

Difficult games have existed before dark soul games.

Ghosts is just another game that can be difficult.

Lord Fanny · May 17, 2020

I think people who are envisioning this as some sort of super brutal combat system are probably looking too much into what's being said. It's going to be like the 'no waypoint' thing. Like I'm sure what is being said is true, but I imagine it's going to be far more forgiving and easy to navigate than it sounds.

Callibretto · May 17, 2020

Stiltzkin said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it's like the Dark Souls of Sekiro.

you can die pretty quick in God of War as well. at least in the beginning and people didn't say GoW difficulty on the same level as Sekiro/Souls games.

Ploid 6.0 · May 17, 2020

Domcorleone said:
I'm hoping they have a Bushido blade difficulty level with no indicators. I want to be scared every time I'm about to engage and feel like a badass samurai when I succeed. I will bow only to worth opponents.

i wonder what this means for duels with bosses and how stances play a role in it all.

Yeah me too, those bows will be so earned after a tense and long parry battle. In For Honor there's a lot of victory animations where you get on your knees in exhaustion as if to say, "wow I survived" and a lot of bows and respectful gestures.

Van Bur3n · May 17, 2020

You can die in this Oh my goodness I can't believe they copied Dark Soul

SecondNature · May 17, 2020

This is why Im more interested in playing as Samurai and not as Ghost. The combat sounds more promising

It just sounds like you need to be a lot more careful, and time your shot, but that shot is practically instant kill.

Fredrik · May 17, 2020

Domcorleone said:
I'm hoping they have a Bushido blade difficulty level with no indicators. I want to be scared every time I'm about to engage and feel like a badass samurai when I succeed. I will bow only to worth opponents.

i wonder what this means for duels with bosses and how stances play a role in it all.

Did you finish Bushido Blade? I didn't. It was cool and unique and samurais are awesome, but there is a reason why insta kills isn't used for one-on-one fighting anymore. It's no fun. Insta kill existed in Barbarian on C64 as well but it was just used to rush through the game, essentially to skip the fights. But there it at least ended with an iconic head chop and the green goblin thing kicking around the head, made it fun for a few minutes :p

SoulsHunt · May 17, 2020

I love this. You kill them fast but you can also die quickly. This wouldn't make sense if you have to hit someone 10 times for him to die (like AC Origins and Odyssey).

Vex · May 17, 2020

Dest said:
i'll be sold on the combat if i can slice a dude, sheathe my weapon, turn around then watch him become a fountain and fall over

Yes!!!!!!

Sucker Punch: You can die really quickly in Ghost of Tsushima

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