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Super Mario Maker 2 |OT| Make Your Own Witty OT Title | see threadmarks

What mode(s) do you spend the most time in?


  • Total voters
    524

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
With all the subtle (and sometimes frankly pointless) differences between the two games, having to remake the levels is actually better, as you get more chances to notice them before uploading. If you could just import your levels, you would probably miss plenty of minor stuff.
With the additional stuff added in SMM2 there is also just a lot of room to improve sloppy designs from last game. Scroll lock in this game makes designing boss rooms infinitely better and block usage is a lot more manageable too. Sadly my wiiu gamepad isn't working now and you cant use the WiiU without it so I gotta get it fixed or all my mario maker 1 shit is basically hostage :(

I wasn't going to bother transfering them for a bit but if I can get it fixed I may go hard on moving everything over before it craps out.
 

Valkrai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
I'm trying to get back into the game, took a few months off the game but I want to try and keep working on levels. Still not sure what people are more into, hard levels or more traditional Mario stages.

Anyway, I made a simple course to try and get me back into the basics of the maker

Climbing up Bullet Bill: 7YY-D03-H2G
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
I'm trying to get back into the game, took a few months off the game but I want to try and keep working on levels. Still not sure what people are more into, hard levels or more traditional Mario stages.

Anyway, I made a simple course to try and get me back into the basics of the maker

Climbing up Bullet Bill: 7YY-D03-H2G
They are apparently into 20s speedruns and dont trust anything levels lol

In all honesty just make what you enjoy.
 

GokouD

Member
Oct 30, 2017
378
Mario Is Missing 2

H7S-GTQ-5YG
Another little puzzle one, this time you can move back and forth off screen and control things like moles and icicles. Probably my last one for a while as the wife is having a baby tomorrow!

Rainbow Rush 2 did about 90K plays in the end, so not too shabby ;) It actually spent more time at no.1 than the first one, but I guess the playerbase is a lot smaller now.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,642
Re: Déjà Boo 14 (YJM-H7P-3QF)
Re: Speedy Tiny Wee Boo
I'll play these levels later, I'm keeping that in my post that way I can easily find it again in my next post.
I really wish the mariomaker website worked with SMM2, I could queue levels at work and stuffs!

Yes!
It's a really fun trick, and since most people don't realize what's happening I put a more "In Your Face" version of the tech in my second speedrun level.
I'll have to experiment but I think I have an idea how to pull something interesting like that.
Rather impressive!


Did you finish it?
There isn't much to get, it's just a speedy version of the trick used in Déjà Boo 8 and 9. But if you don't finish it you can't see the trick.
I'll guess it's better if I just play these before and come back to it later.

The yoshi's island (GOAT platformer) influence is apparent haha. I liked the level overall. Only thing I had an issue with which is a personal preference above a real criticism is I dislike when snake blocks do staircases and into out of lava patterns often because it makes the levels go slower and it feels more like the length of the level is being extended artificially. Again, just a personal dislike though. Overall very solid.
Thanks!
Usually when I use snake blocks I always put a super risky path where you can just ignore the snake block if you're good enough (my next level (probably) do that at least 3 times).
I just got lazy here, I also had a size constraint with the 2 sublevels overlapping.
With all the subtle (and sometimes frankly pointless) differences between the two games, having to remake the levels is actually better, as you get more chances to notice them before uploading. If you could just import your levels, you would probably miss plenty of minor stuff.
I tried to do that and basically redid 1-1 a level I didn't manage to post on SMM1.
Nothing worked, it relied heavily on monsters climbing walls and jumping on not blocks and I can tell you that they changed a lot of shit under the hood!
 

Wijuci

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,584
Anyway, currently working myself through my courses backlog. It doesn't help that some of you people are able to pump out high quality course after high quality course like @Wijuci or @Simbabbad haha.
That's very sweet!
But my theory is that, for some reason, you're just clicking with the undefinable "frenchness" of our levels. :))

As a side note, someone going through your whole catalog and not liking any of the levels is the fucking worst.If you bothered to play everything I published in a 1 hour span you obviously are
I have one like that!
They played all my levels and didn't like once. I don't know what's worse: if they do that at once, giving an hour of their time to play everything, or if they do that over time by favoriting you.

I'll play these levels later, I'm keeping that in my post that way I can easily find it again in my next post.
I really wish the mariomaker website worked with SMM2, I could queue levels at work and stuffs!
I never played MM1, but I wish that too!
The only acceptable solution is favoriting people, which I did with most Resetera creators. But yeah, a website or app would be waaaaay better.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
I have one like that!
They played all my levels and didn't like once. I don't know what's worse: if they do that at once, giving an hour of their time to play everything, or if they do that over time by favoriting you.
That persistent reminder is def a valid point. I'm prob just salty cause for one hour it was just notifications of this person playing all my levels

I never played MM1, but I wish that too!
The only acceptable solution is favoriting people, which I did with most Resetera creators. But yeah, a website or app would be waaaaay better.
The bookmark site was blessed. I would que up levels at work and play them all when I got home. The fact they dont have it in this game is criminal. Fuck sharing codes.
 

Valkrai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
I made another track, there's some nice features that I barely just noticed like the ability to multigrab and copy. Really helped with terrain rather than manually doing it which was a big pain. I'm also wanting to try some tracks from ERA makers.

Mid Air Mayhem: 1NX-K4W-7GG
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,642
Re: Déjà Boo 14 (YJM-H7P-3QF)
Re: Speedy Tiny Wee Boo
I now realise that I played these 2 before!
Wijuci, I finished both Tiny Wee Boo levels, I understood what I was missing.
very clever.
If you don't get what you're trying to get in the 20s it can be frustrating
I'm trying to get back into the game, took a few months off the game but I want to try and keep working on levels. Still not sure what people are more into, hard levels or more traditional Mario stages.

Anyway, I made a simple course to try and get me back into the basics of the maker

Climbing up Bullet Bill: 7YY-D03-H2G
Very clean level!
It's simple and to the point.
The 2nd bullet blaster, if you miss your jump, you can walljump back to safety.
I don't if it's on purpose or not but since I love walljumping back to safety I felt like I should mention that.
Mario Is Missing 2

H7S-GTQ-5YG
Another little puzzle one, this time you can move back and forth off screen and control things like moles and icicles. Probably my last one for a while as the wife is having a baby tomorrow!

Rainbow Rush 2 did about 90K plays in the end, so not too shabby ;) It actually spent more time at no.1 than the first one, but I guess the playerbase is a lot smaller now.
Nice puzzle level! The timing for the bomb is tight though

I never played MM1, but I wish that too!
The only acceptable solution is favoriting people, which I did with most Resetera creators. But yeah, a website or app would be waaaaay better.
Yeah, it's kinda shit this way.
I favorited a close friend and that's it basically.
I kind of forgot to add yall to my group of fav users because I couldn't plan for shit in the last few months.
An app or a site would be a godsend! It would make the online app useful for once!

I made another track, there's some nice features that I barely just noticed like the ability to multigrab and copy. Really helped with terrain rather than manually doing it which was a big pain. I'm also wanting to try some tracks from ERA makers.
You can even do that when you're in the zoomed out view,
really helps moving big chunks!

Mid Air Mayhem: 1NX-K4W-7GG
Nice level,
1 thing though, the before last obstacle with 2 koopas.
You can't see the 2nd from the starting position so it's close to a leap of faith.


Now onto making my levels...
 

aeh

Member
Sep 12, 2019
18
Germany
Some cool design tricks and techniques to make levels a little more enjoyable.
Yesterday I build a stair which get triggered when I touch a snake block...but the setup wasn't that nice...looking for good examples for stuff like that :)! Wijuci
 

Valkrai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
I now realise that I played these 2 before!
Wijuci, I finished both Tiny Wee Boo levels, I understood what I was missing.
very clever.
If you don't get what you're trying to get in the 20s it can be frustrating

Very clean level!
It's simple and to the point.
The 2nd bullet blaster, if you miss your jump, you can walljump back to safety.
I don't if it's on purpose or not but since I love walljumping back to safety I felt like I should mention that.

Nice puzzle level! The timing for the bomb is tight though



Yeah, it's kinda shit this way.
I favorited a close friend and that's it basically.
I kind of forgot to add yall to my group of fav users because I couldn't plan for shit in the last few months.
An app or a site would be a godsend! It would make the online app useful for once!


You can even do that when you're in the zoomed out view,
really helps moving big chunks!


Nice level,
1 thing though, the before last obstacle with 2 koopas.
You can't see the 2nd from the starting position so it's close to a leap of faith.


Now onto making my levels...
Thanks for trying it out. Usually I try to telegraph where to go with coins but I must have overlooked it.

Also I'm totally in favor with something being added to queue levels. Either on a site or incorporated into the NSO app, it'd make that app worthwhile at least for me.
 

ragingbegal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
I made another track, there's some nice features that I barely just noticed like the ability to multigrab and copy. Really helped with terrain rather than manually doing it which was a big pain. I'm also wanting to try some tracks from ERA makers.

Mid Air Mayhem: 1NX-K4W-7GG
I played this on stream if you want to hear my thoughts. Overall enjoyed it, a few blind jumps that could be tweaked.
 

Valkrai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
I played this on stream if you want to hear my thoughts. Overall enjoyed it, a few blind jumps that could be tweaked.
Thanks for that. I've noticed it's a bit easy to accidentally make leaps of faith. The Hammer Bros placement isn't as ideal as I was hoping too since you can be blindsided by it, for the Koopa I don't know how to get it completely aligned with the other. It tends to stray sometimes when I'm trying to get it in a similar position.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,642
Oh God!
there's really a problem with how I create courses.
My next level has 3 different ways to start the level and I have to find a way to make each of them interesting enough that they provide a fun experience to anyone going through them.
I kind of wish we could have a scroll mechanism like SMB1 on NES had with no backtracking possible.
 

ragingbegal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
I've got a new course for a monthly contest that needs some playtesting, if anyone would be so kind.

Temple of the Frozen Chain Chomp
Course ID: Y4Y-7M7-KSG

Level has a 12% clear rate as of now, so not too hard. It's based around different things you can go with chain chomps and culminates in a mini speedrun. Looking for any spots that feel unfair, overly difficult, unclear, or cheeseable.

Note, that I do want the final moments of the level to feel tense and tight. That's why I give a checkpoint before that section, so it's quick to replay and not too punishing.

Edit: Updated code to newer version.
 
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Valkrai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
I've got a new course for a monthly contest that needs some playtesting, if anyone would be so kind.

Temple of the Frozen Chain Chomp
Course ID: WRF-293-T1G

Level has a 12% clear rate as of now, so not too hard. It's based around different things you can go with chain chomps and culminates in a mini speedrun. Looking for any spots that feel unfair, overly difficult, unclear, or cheeseable.

Note, that I do want the final moments of the level to feel tense and tight. That's why I give a checkpoint before that section, so it's quick to replay and not too punishing.
Played it, it was well done. I also really liked the Z telegraph for the final section. The very last part frustrated me personally since you have to use the On/Off switch in succession with a small amount of time. Maybe it would help to add one or two more of the blocks there so its not as punishing when you miss.
 

ragingbegal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
Played it, it was well done. I also really liked the Z telegraph for the final section. The very last part frustrated me personally since you have to use the On/Off switch in succession with a small amount of time. Maybe it would help to add one or two more of the blocks there so its not as punishing when you miss.
This was an excellent suggestion and I've updated the level accordingly, in addition to some other minor changes. The new code is Y4Y-7M7-KSG if anyone wants to give it a try.
 

Wijuci

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,584
New level, not my best!
And, hum, not my worst!



Déjà Boo 15 : Oobliettes
ID: NY2-NGT-PKF

A new level in my subseries called "There Are Too Many On/Off Blocks In This, I Will Have To Reupload!" and, you know what, there were too many On/Off blocks in it and I had to reupload several times because of stupid softlocks.

But now that it's fixed, I'm happy to show you this pretty fun course inside a Ghost House, with a pretty cool ending that you will see if you don't quit before. In other words, same old same old.

Hope you enjoy it!
And if not, I'm working on the next one, which is better, so just be patient. :)
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
New level, not my best!
And, hum, not my worst!



Déjà Boo 15 : Oobliettes
ID: NY2-NGT-PKF

A new level in my subseries called "There Are Too Many On/Off Blocks In This, I Will Have To Reupload!" and, you know what, there were too many On/Off blocks in it and I had to reupload several times because of stupid softlocks.

But now that it's fixed, I'm happy to show you this pretty fun course inside a Ghost House, with a pretty cool ending that you will see if you don't quit before. In other words, same old same old.

Hope you enjoy it!
And if not, I'm working on the next one, which is better, so just be patient. :)
Cool level.

The code was super cool
 

LSauchelli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
190
I made a level that I didn't get around sharing here:

Castle Faefyre
WWH-2W6-2JF

It's an attempt at a huge level with multiple exits.

Later tonight I will get to play all the cool levels from this thread that I have missed.

I started making my first 3D World level and couldn't help but think about how limited it is compared to the other modes. It really needs an update to bring some basic features that are present in all the other styles.
 

Sir Laguna

Member
Oct 27, 2017
185
New level!

I hope you enjoy wall jumping because this is all about wall jumping, wall jumping and wall jumping!

ID: V6W T5H NFG

 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,176
Wisconsin
The game updated, finally. It's version 1.1.0


Play with friends, thankfully with coursebot/courseworld support.
NSO app is supported for vc
Added lan support
Some new starting screen easter eggs
Button controls in handheld
List of first clears and changes to maker profile
Added a list of official makers to courseworld, hopefully this means we'll start getting official promo levels

A lot of good qol changes, but not the content update I think everyone was hoping for at this point
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
This patch doesn't mean much at all to me as a player, although playing with friends on selected courses might add some much-needed variety to the Mario Maker social experience on Twitch, and finally provide a format for actual targeted playtesting of co-op levels.

The new display of First Clear and World Record counts is nice, though. Yet another feature SMM1 already had on the bookmark site, but welcome nevertheless. Of course the first thing I had to check when logging into the new patch was the full extent of CaptainMatilder's staggering WR count. (178, for those curious.)
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
I haven't been able to test this for myself just yet, but someone on Reddit is reporting that with this patch, icicles no longer behave as global ground (i.e. objects on icicles are no longer protected from despawning).

As with other mechanical changes, existing uploads are not affected—thank goodness. (Not sure about existing offline saves in Coursebot that have not been run through the editor, though.)

This is an extremely alarming change, if true. It breaks one of the few options for compact mechanisms in 3DW, and also kills what is probably the most item-budget-efficient solution for despawn protection in the game. The boss puzzle chamber at the end of my very own Freezeflame Follies breaks completely under these circumstances (along with some other soft-lock protections I put in), as icicles are how I ensure the gates, once lowered, stay lowered.

*

Actually, upon further investigation, things look even worse than I thought.

Copied from a post on one of the SMM2 Discords where somebody tested this:

Global ground:
Icicles rip (both falling and stationary)
One-ways rip
Firebars rip
Burners rip
Top 16 rows of vertical subworlds rip

Claws still work
Things on tracks still work
Yoshi still works
Snakes still work
Bosses still work
3DW cloud blocks still work (blocks not lifts)
Things in clear pipes still work (except vertical springs)
3DW track blocks still work
Hammer suit crates still work
Powerups are still semi-global and still despawn / respawn instead of being destroyed like in SMM1
This may be the worst thing ever to happen to the contraption-engineering side of Mario Maker. It destroys so much. It's orders of magnitude worse than changes like the loss of pipe stacking from SMM1. I don't understand the reasoning at all, and I hope there is substantial pressure to revert this in the next version.

(Edit: Found the source—this community test document that covers changes not mentioned in the patch notes.)
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,772
I haven't been able to test this for myself just yet, but someone on Reddit is reporting that with this patch, icicles no longer behave as global ground (i.e. objects on icicles are no longer protected from despawning).

As with other mechanical changes, existing uploads are not affected—thank goodness. (Not sure about existing offline saves in Coursebot that have not been run through the editor, though.)

This is an extremely alarming change, if true. It breaks one of the few options for compact mechanisms in 3DW, and also kills what is probably the most item-budget-efficient solution for despawn protection in the game. The boss puzzle chamber at the end of my very own Freezeflame Follies breaks completely under these circumstances (along with some other soft-lock protections I put in), as icicles are how I ensure the gates, once lowered, stay lowered.

*

Actually, upon further investigation, things look even worse than I thought.

Copied from a post on one of the SMM2 Discords where somebody tested this:



This may be the worst thing ever to happen to the contraption-engineering side of Mario Maker. It destroys so much. It's orders of magnitude worse than changes like the loss of pipe stacking from SMM1. I don't understand the reasoning at all, and I hope there is substantial pressure to revert this in the next version.

(Edit: Found the source—this community test document that covers changes not mentioned in the patch notes.)
Fuck

This

Shit
 

Wijuci

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,584
Well, hopefully, Nintendo didn't break this...



Déjà Boo 16 : Clock Shop Terror
ID: DRY-8KW-MTF

Tick... Tick... Tick... Boo!
A haunted clock shop, because, sure, why not.


This one is very hard, but I'm really happy about it.

There are three main puzzles in this level: the first one is simple, the second one is hard, and the third one is very hard. I was very aware of it while making it, so I tried to put as many hints as possible, with visuals or sounds, and to prevent backtracking as much as possible. My best advice if you get stuck is to look around you and try to follow the hints, even if you're pretty sure they don't make sense.

Not much more to add, if you enjoyed my previous levels, you will definitively enjoy this one too.
If you didn't, well, at least you can listen to it. (Yeah, listening to this level is my favorite part.)
 
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Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,488
Orlando, FL
Something about how some records are obtained confuse me.

I'm playing a speedrun level where all I do is hold Y + right (and jump, of course), and when I get to the end I notice that sometimes the world record for these courses is like 200 milliseconds faster than me? How is that possible when I never slowed down at all?
 

Jocchan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
168
Silent Hill
I haven't been able to test this for myself just yet, but someone on Reddit is reporting that with this patch, icicles no longer behave as global ground (i.e. objects on icicles are no longer protected from despawning).

As with other mechanical changes, existing uploads are not affected—thank goodness. (Not sure about existing offline saves in Coursebot that have not been run through the editor, though.)

This is an extremely alarming change, if true. It breaks one of the few options for compact mechanisms in 3DW, and also kills what is probably the most item-budget-efficient solution for despawn protection in the game. The boss puzzle chamber at the end of my very own Freezeflame Follies breaks completely under these circumstances (along with some other soft-lock protections I put in), as icicles are how I ensure the gates, once lowered, stay lowered.

*

Actually, upon further investigation, things look even worse than I thought.

Copied from a post on one of the SMM2 Discords where somebody tested this:



This may be the worst thing ever to happen to the contraption-engineering side of Mario Maker. It destroys so much. It's orders of magnitude worse than changes like the loss of pipe stacking from SMM1. I don't understand the reasoning at all, and I hope there is substantial pressure to revert this in the next version.

(Edit: Found the source—this community test document that covers changes not mentioned in the patch notes.)
Why would they even change this?

The changes to stacking were already absurd and damaging, but at least they could be justified by not wanting to make things confusing visually for the player.

But this?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
Why would they even change this?

The changes to stacking were already absurd and damaging, but at least they could be justified by not wanting to make things confusing visually for the player.

But this?
This is pure speculation, but I think there is a wide band of unintended behaviour in the engine where the developers' attitude is, "We won't break it on purpose, but if we break it, we're not going to fix it." With something like icicles, they can get away with it because there isn't an official standard for how they are supposed to behave that is easily understood by players. Everything is under the hood, so they probably think changes don't matter as much as whatever it is they're trying to address.

As for what would motivate changes to global loading—I think it's very likely related to behaviour/bugs they want to fix in multiplayer, where the global state of the level is relevant. Or it might just be a side effect of repairing some other glitch.

Generally, I have to say that I'm not keen on how the maker experience has to bend over backwards to accommodate their multiplayer implementation. The classic example of this, of course, is the no-build-zone at the starting arrow. And something tells me that global loading rules are treated the same way: since it's all under the hood and most players won't notice it, if they need to break something for the sake of multiplayer, they will break it. If that's the reasoning, from a maker's perspective, at this point I think multiplayer is doing the game more harm than good.

I don't know if I should bother making sense of it, though. And what makes it so much worse is that we don't have a channel of communication to voice this issue. If only we could get an explanation so we wouldn't have to speculate about their motives.

I've been in a lot of mapmaking communities and Early Access alphas for engineering/construction games, so I'm used to the cycle of creatively exploiting unintended engine interactions, then seeing them patched out. But in many of these cases you could trust the developers to address extreme edge-case complaints that were only relevant to a small number of advanced mapmakers. When Blizzard broke a lot of old custom maps by fixing a certain bug in StarCraft: Remastered (a glitch that mapmakers exploited known as Extended Unit Death, or EUD), it was possible for mapmakers to talk to them and get them to emulate the old bug, and the engineer responsible for it even gave a talk about working on the fix. (And EUD was fairly obscure: I didn't know about it, as I wasn't around for advanced SC1 mapmaking, and this issue was mainly raised by players in South Korea.)

The global ground issue hits a sore point for me because in both SMM games, I found that the most difficult hump to get over when doing quality checks on levels, debugging them, and getting them to behave consistently was understanding the spawning/despawning rules. It's essential if you want to make anything reasonably complex with interactive parts, because if you don't understand the rules, chances are your level will break or soft-lock the player. I struggled with this all the way to the end of SMM1 and it's the main reason I take so long to finish or ship anything in SMM2. Despawn debugging can sometimes take me a whole day. To have critical, easy-to-use bug-fixing tools taken away has made the process worse.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
This is pure speculation, but I think there is a wide band of unintended behaviour in the engine where the developers' attitude is, "We won't break it on purpose, but if we break it, we're not going to fix it." With something like icicles, they can get away with it because there isn't an official standard for how they are supposed to behave that is easily understood by players. Everything is under the hood, so they probably think changes don't matter as much as whatever it is they're trying to address.

As for what would motivate changes to global loading—I think it's very likely related to behaviour/bugs they want to fix in multiplayer, where the global state of the level is relevant. Or it might just be a side effect of repairing some other glitch.

Generally, I have to say that I'm not keen on how the maker experience has to bend over backwards to accommodate their multiplayer implementation. The classic example of this, of course, is the no-build-zone at the starting arrow. And something tells me that global loading rules are treated the same way: since it's all under the hood and most players won't notice it, if they need to break something for the sake of multiplayer, they will break it. If that's the reasoning, from a maker's perspective, at this point I think multiplayer is doing the game more harm than good.

I don't know if I should bother making sense of it, though. And what makes it so much worse is that we don't have a channel of communication to voice this issue. If only we could get an explanation so we wouldn't have to speculate about their motives.

I've been in a lot of mapmaking communities and Early Access alphas for engineering/construction games, so I'm used to the cycle of creatively exploiting unintended engine interactions, then seeing them patched out. But in many of these cases you could trust the developers to address extreme edge-case complaints that were only relevant to a small number of advanced mapmakers. When Blizzard broke a lot of old custom maps by fixing a certain bug in StarCraft: Remastered (a glitch that mapmakers exploited known as Extended Unit Death, or EUD), it was possible for mapmakers to talk to them and get them to emulate the old bug, and the engineer responsible for it even gave a talk about working on the fix. (And EUD was fairly obscure: I didn't know about it, as I wasn't around for advanced SC1 mapmaking, and this issue was mainly raised by players in South Korea.)

The global ground issue hits a sore point for me because in both SMM games, I found that the most difficult hump to get over when doing quality checks on levels, debugging them, and getting them to behave consistently was understanding the spawning/despawning rules. It's essential if you want to make anything reasonably complex with interactive parts, because if you don't understand the rules, chances are your level will break or soft-lock the player. I struggled with this all the way to the end of SMM1 and it's the main reason I take so long to finish or ship anything in SMM2. Despawn debugging can sometimes take me a whole day. To have critical, easy-to-use bug-fixing tools taken away has made the process worse.
Do you have any videos on global ground I could look at?

Edit: I dug around and found some videos. Icicles seem like they were really handy. Reading around I was able to figure out how to do this using snake blocks though. So minimally I added something new to my tool box lol.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,075
Do you have any videos on global ground I could look at?

Edit: I dug around and found some videos. Icicles seem like they were really handy. Reading around I was able to figure out how to do this using snake blocks though. So minimally I added something new to my tool box lol.
Seems like you've found some resources already, but I was going to recommend this video. It was made for SMM1, so the specifics have changed, but it explains the principle of global ground quite well (discussion of global ground starts at around 6:20).


Fire Bars behaved like this in SMM1 and did in SMM2 as well until this patch. Burners and one-ways did not behave like this in SMM1, but did in SMM2, and now they don't once again. And if you've ever played a gimmick level with a vertical zone that drops you down the level for no apparent reason at the start, chances are it was a loading trick, because until this patch, the top 16 rows of a vertical subworld were protected from despawning. So for vertical worlds, you could build a mechanism once, load it at the top, and have it work across the entire zone.

Snake blocks still work to prevent despawns, as you said (and have the benefit of obeying their own object limit), as do surfaces on tracks, claws, and surfaces held by claws (e.g. POW blocks). 3DW still has a few options, like cloud blocks, track blocks, and !-blocks, but cloud blocks are the only 1x1 solution here.

Losing this functionality on icicles, fire bars, and burners kills a lot of compact, flexible solutions with 1x1 objects. One-way panels don't work anymore either, and that's unfortunate in its own way, because it was only just recently discovered that one-way panels are always permanently loaded into a level no matter where they are, which has immense potential.

Hopefully we get some 1x1 options back, or other solutions that don't eat up the standard item budget, when new course parts are introduced.
 
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Raza

Member
Nov 7, 2017
923
Ohio
Made a quick speed course with some on/off switches that make for quick jumps. If interested:

QVS-V7L-LBG
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
Made a quick speed course with some on/off switches that make for quick jumps. If interested:

QVS-V7L-LBG
Gave it a play. It feels a bit disjointed in spots. Like it wasn't clear if I was suppose to be using the thwomps to activated the on off switches or beating them to it. And the last section with the leading the dry bones was a bit weird. Good attempt though. I gave it a like. I'd just really focus on clarity and keeping the flow a little more organic.
 

sleepnaught

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,516
So, what are the rules for a self contained room that doesn't reveal the outside? Ive surrounded an area with unbreakable blocks and it still doesn't work.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
Seems like you've found some resources already, but I was going to recommend this video. It was made for SMM1, so the specifics have changed, but it explains the principle of global ground quite well (discussion of global ground starts at around 6:20).


Fire Bars behaved like this in SMM1 and did in SMM2 as well until this patch. Burners and one-ways did not behave like this in SMM1, but did in SMM2, and now they don't once again. And if you've ever played a gimmick level with a vertical zone that drops you down the level for no apparent reason at the start, chances are it was a loading trick, because until this patch, the top 16 rows of a vertical subworld were protected from despawning. So for vertical worlds, you could build a mechanism once, load it at the top, and have it work across the entire zone.

Snake blocks still work to prevent despawns, as you said (and have the benefit of obeying their own object limit), as do surfaces on tracks, claws, and surfaces held by claws (e.g. POW blocks). 3DW still has a few options, like cloud blocks, track blocks, and !-blocks, but cloud blocks are the only 1x1 solution here.

Losing this functionality on icicles, fire bars, and burners kills a lot of compact, flexible solutions with 1x1 objects. One-way panels don't work anymore either, and that's unfortunate in its own way, because it was only just recently discovered that one-way panels are always permanently loaded into a level no matter where they are, which has immense potential.

Hopefully we get some 1x1 options back, or other solutions that don't eat up the standard item budget, when new course parts are introduced.
That video was really cool. That vertical drop thing is interesting. It adds a lot of context to levels I have played where the drop felt pointless. Sucks they removed it. This discussion actually made me play with the mechanic and now I'm making a new level that just loosely plays with it (nothing crazy or exciting like yall do, I stay in my lane haha) and its pretty cool to see just what I have been missing
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,772
So, what are the rules for a self contained room that doesn't reveal the outside? Ive surrounded an area with unbreakable blocks and it still doesn't work.
You can only “scroll stop” with lines of unbreakable blocks that extend to the boundaries of the entire level. So to stop from scrolling horizontally, you have to go from the very top to the very bottom. To stop scrolling vertically, you have to go from the far left to the far right.
 

sss

Member
Nov 4, 2018
10
Would love some feedback on my level

Bare Bare Bluffs, SMB3
Code: 24L-XV9-JQF
A classic desert level. No nonsense Super Mario-platforming that hopefully wont make you want to tear your hair out.

Thank you for playing!
 

pwrshll

Member
Oct 27, 2017
69
Uploaded my first level, if anyone is bored or interested in giving it a go.

Pitter-Patter, SM3DW
Code: LV9-6CY-FYG

A somewhat short level with a handful of (maybe) tricky spots. Was shooting for a "mild challenge".

Appreciate any feedback. Thanks!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
Would love some feedback on my level

Bare Bare Bluffs, SMB3
Code: 24L-XV9-JQF
A classic desert level. No nonsense Super Mario-platforming that hopefully wont make you want to tear your hair out.

Thank you for playing!
Not bad; I cleared it in one attempt, but it was an engaging experience, and I could see where I might slip up. The SMB3 theme is a good fit here, as the pacing and length would have reminded me of that game regardless, and you get a bit of aesthetic mileage out of the pipe-styled ground tiles. That one lonely 1-up spot that you have to hit with a shell was a nice touch. Both Mario Maker games have a problem with Piranha Plants spawning much later from pipes than in the original Mario games, so if you're going quickly you can't always see them coming; I'd be wary of players being ambushed by this, but the level had a lot of safety zones to work with, so I never got hit.

I can tell you adhered to the common wisdom about traditional levels to just focus on a few elements at a time (in your case: winged platforms, Piranha Plants, Paratroopas), and I think it paid off.

Uploaded my first level, if anyone is bored or interested in giving it a go.

Pitter-Patter, SM3DW
Code: LV9-6CY-FYG

A somewhat short level with a handful of (maybe) tricky spots. Was shooting for a "mild challenge".

Appreciate any feedback. Thanks!
Welcome to SMM2. I claimed the first clear on this level, but it took a fair bit of work, and it wasn't because the platforming was hard; as you said, the actual segments are at most a mild challenge.

The problem is the camera. This is a common first-timer's mistake, so don't feel too bad, as you won't be the first person here that I've scolded about it. Sometimes, when I play a level, I can just tell that it looks better in the editor than it does when you play it straight from the start. If you're only testing an obstacle or segment by dropping Mario into a certain position from the editor and just taking it from there, you're not going to have an accurate picture of how the camera scroll behaves for new players. Things will look more reasonable to you than it does to them.

For testing the camera: you don't need to run the whole stage from the start, but every time there is a pipe or door transition, enter the pipe or door from the other side so you force yourself to see where the player starts. That way you can get a sense of how the camera scroll works, when objects come into view, and how much visibility the player has for what's coming. Otherwise, most of the difficulty won't come from platforming, but from blind guesswork.

It's especially a problem in any of the airship themes (which include the 3DW circus theme), because the camera bobs up and down, which creates visibility problems for the floor and the ceiling. In your level, you have a lot going on that either puts the player on top of the bottom row, or pushes them up towards the top row. This is a big problem because if you don't already know what the level looks like going in, there are multiple places where, if you arrive at a certain timing, you can't actually see the floor, and can't tell if there are blocks there or an empty pit. Just as one example, I died twice to the clear pipe exit right before the goal flag because I couldn't see what was going on down there while the camera was bobbing—my first time there I didn't know there were donut blocks, and I also didn't know that getting there as Super Mario would force me to crouch in the one-tile gap between the donut blocks and the pipe (which meant I couldn't just stop the donut blocks from falling by jumping up and down).

That brings me to the second problem: if you put power-ups in your stage, you need to test all of them. In the editor, you can feed Mario a power-up before you hit Play if you need to test him in a certain state. There were several parts of this level that feel like they were only tested against small Mario. For example, before you get the first key, you feed the player one Fire Flower and two Mushrooms... only to force the player to do a fidgety wall jump into a one-tile gap. That forces skilled players who kept their power-ups to intentionally take damage. Likewise, the pipe exit at the goal flag might make sense as a final check on the player (get off these donut blocks quickly and get past the Bully)... except that you're forced to crouch if you get there while big.

Some makers like to get around this by inflicting unavoidable damage to force small Mario. No need to do that. Just playtest to accommodate all the power-ups you put in the level. If the player is allowed to be big, make sure they have enough headroom throughout the level while big. (The track block segment with the bees is an example of a part where you can get through while big, but it feels pretty rough.)

Finally: entering doors from vertically moving surfaces is never fun. I've never seen it done well—not with seesaws, not with lifts, and certainly not with the falling donut blocks you have here. It doesn't come off as hard because everybody knows what to do, but it's very unreliable—especially with the weird parallax in the 3DW theme where you can be a little off-centre and misread how far you are from the wall. I died a few times just failing to enter the door.

Don't worry too much about revising this level; just keep these principles in mind for future creations.