Super Mario Odyssey is a great game, but an average 3D Mario game

[Huey]

Just finished Mario Odyssey... and I have to say i'm pretty underwhelmed. It's an objectively great game, but I've been playing through all the 3D Mario games recently and this one kind of falls flat in comparison. Problems I see are as follows:

1. Open world mission and level design - just like so many other games that have gone open world, Odyssey loses its focus a bit. The objectives in the open world setting feel a bit unrewarding - certainly compared to 64 or Galaxy. Some of that may be structural - when you get a star in the latter games, the level experience ends and you're returned to the hub, whereas here you just continue on your way. But the more I played of it the more I realized it was the design of the moon objectives themselves: they kind of just felt easy and obvious. We see nothing on the level of the brilliance of Galaxy or 64 here, and maybe not even Sunshine. Levels are laid out very plainly in most cases, often without the design flourishes mainline mario games are known for.

2. Character designs - I mean...

These are just kind of off-putting, no? They seem like they belong in another series.. and seems like they still need several revisions at that. While we're on that note:

3. Boss battles - I'm legitimately puzzled by this, as coming off galaxy, I expect the absolute finest boss encounters possible out of a mainline mario game. What we have here are standardized circular battlefields with hat based combat - every single Broodal battle. I was legit surprised. The non-Broodal battles can be significantly better, but you end up fighting a Broodal pretty regularly, and the repetition draws attention to itself.

4. Art design - I don't know, in keeping with the character design, just the overall art seems like it had a new team working on it. Like the grass textures...

It's certainly an HD Mario - and that's awesome - but the new direction has lost some of the charm of Galaxy/3D World etc.

Anyways, new isn't necessarily worse - i just feel like it missed the mark a bit.

As it stands, I'd rank the 3D Mario console titles the following (realize this will be controversial):

1. Galaxy 1/2
2. 64
3. Sunshine = 3D World (played in local multi, 3D world > Sunshine)
4. Odyssey

Thoughts? Have I missed something essential about the game?

 

[Dekuman]

Odessey > Galaxy for me.

The platforming in New Donk is sublime. The worlds are just much more interesting than the spherical mini worlds in Galaxy

 

[Comic Obsessed]

Is better than Sunshine which was a truly average 3D Mario.

 

[thekonamicode]

Odyssey is my favorite 3D Mario since 64.

 

[Raijinto]

Puzzles me when almost every single point you highlighted there is a positive for me. Even the Broodals are not as bad as you describe.

 

[--R]

Odyssey is still the best 3D Mario imo.

 

[Secretofmateria]

I kind of agree. 3d world is tied with galaxy as my favorites of all time and odyssey felt like it was lacking the charm of those games

 

[Huey]

Odessey > Galaxy for me.

The platforming in New Donk is sublime. The worlds are just much more interesting than the spherical mini worlds in Galaxy

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See I cannot see how you can come to that conclusion. Every level in Galaxy 1/2 is exciting and dynamic and feels essential. A lot of the time in Odyssey I felt like I was going through the motions. Have you recently played Galaxy post-Odyssey?

Is better than Sunshine which was a truly average 3D Mario.

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And I really feel like Sunshine receives a totally unfair amount of flack, having recently played it in the context of all these other games.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

I think I disagree with all of your points!

That being said, I did have a problem with the game's overall structure (before the post-game). I wasn't a fan of how the majority of the game was on a linear track and I didn't like that only moons from the current kingdom counted towards story progression.

I do think I have come to the conclusion that I enjoyed the Galaxy games more, but I still consider Odyssey a modern classic.

 

[Dr. Mario]

I think the clashing art styles are deliberate and have their charm. I think it's still better than 3D World and Sunshine, by a significant margin too (but I just vastly prefer the open world Marios over the challenge course Marios). Agree with the rest. The game would have been better if it removed half of the moons. The ones that don't have any thought behind them at least.

 

[Deleted member 12833]

I wouldn't even say it's a great game. I've never flipped so quickly on a game.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

And I really feel like Sunshine receives a totally unfair amount of flack, having recently played it in the context of all these other games.

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Well, there it is.

 

[DeliciousSunnyD!]

It is definitely a great game that is definitely overrated, due to the things you mention. The most important thing being the moons and how they effect the game design, taking Mario from a taut experience of escalating challenge to a meandering, plodding experience where the difficulty is constantly up and down, but the challenge, in particular the platforming challenge, remains relatively average for the majority of the game.

 

[Huey]

I think I disagree with all of your points!

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haha fair enough - so you thought these were great boss battles though?

I wouldn't even say it's a great game. I've never flipped so quickly on a game.

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damn

Well, there it is.

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Please go on. Is this intended as a "your opinion is invalid" post? I'm curious, have you played it recently? I did and, aside from getting much, much too difficult in the end game, it's gameplay and design are largely in line with the great stuff we expect from 3D Marios. Levels are big, wonderful playgrounds.

 

[Weiss]

Odyssey is the first game in a decade to make Mario cool again.

Burn the past. Kill it if you have to. Mario can never go back to 3D World.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

And I really feel like Sunshine receives a totally unfair amount of flack, having recently played it in the context of all these other games.

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Nah. The amount of shit that they expect you to do while getting no reward is flat out bullshit. It ended up being completely pointless. At least Odyssey leaves you feeling with a sense of satisfaction.

 

[Dyle]

Yup, it's great but a way less satisfying game than 3D World. Hopefully we see something in that style next

 

[Ninjimbo]

There's no such thing as an objectively great game. Drop that thinking OP.

That said, I more or less agree with all of your points. But hey, the people wanted Mario 64 again for some reason. That's Odyssey is and it suffers from some of the same problems that Galaxy and 3D World long ago addressed.

Ultimately its a different flavor of Mario. I love me some Sunshine and 64, but I think I prefer the tighter design of the classics and Galaxy and 3D World.

 

[Moltres006]

For me its galaxy 2 > 64 = odyssey > galaxy > sunshine > 3d land (Havent played 3d world yet)

 

[JayBee]

It's not a new direction, it's a mario 64/sunshine esque game. Lots of people actually like that type of mario. Personally prefer the more stage based games like 3d world and galaxy so I hope that's the next one

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I never liked the "good game but not a good __________ game" spiel.

You cherrypicked characters as those bunnies are like Boom Boom, etc...

The non-boss characters are fantastic like the adorable snow dudes and the infectious Sombrero dudes.

The graphics and art are actually great, just hurt by the blah resolution.

For what it is, it's a triumphant game; I just prefer the innovation of the Galaxy series.

 

[Crashnburn85]

Totally agree OP as I am nearly done with my first playthrough. Almost everything you highlighted I agree with. The Broodals are horrible characters and their boss fights offer no creativity or challenge. Power moons feel really unrewarding and diluted. The art style is too inconsistent. It's a fun game and very good, but I'd rate both Galaxy games over it for the reasons highlighted.

 

[cgatto]

Odyssey easily takes the cake. Best since Mario 64, for me.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

It's not really like Mario 64 at all, it's actually much more like Banjo Kazooie.

 

[JayBee]

Totally agree OP as I am nearly done with my first playthrough. Almost everything you highlighted I agree with. The Broodals are horrible characters and their boss fights offer no creativity or challenge. Power moons feel really unrewarding and diluted. The art style is too inconsistent. It's a fun game and very good, but I'd rate both Galaxy games over it for the reasons highlighted.

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You're not finished after finishing the game(credits). You'll encounter the broodals a couple of times more after in the post game and they'll be much harder.

 

[Big G]

I completely agree. It's a 9/10 caliber game, but if it's not my least-favorite 3D Mario, it's close to it.

Platforming has never been more de-emphasized, which is a bummer as a big fan of the Galaxy and 3D L/W games.

But it also missed the mark in terms of recapturing what made 64 great and Sunshine to a lesser extent. The kingdoms suffer from what a lot of modern open-world games suffer from, in that they are these big areas stuffed to the brim with content, but they don't stand out in and of themselves. The majority of the worlds have very unremarkable level design.

It's a new type of 3D Mario focused on having a large volume of bite-sized content. For what it is, I had a ton of fun while I was playing it. But while the rest of the games are filled with all of these magical moments that stem from creative gameplay sequences or memorable level design, in Odyssey the lion's share of the high points consist of fan service and not much else.

 

[banter]

The art style is too inconsistent.

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Um, wut... It's called variety. Each place in a new world, it should be very different.

 

[TitanicFall]

It gets good at the post-game.

 

[Huey]

I never liked the "good game but not a good __________ game" spiel.

You cherrypicked characters as those bunnies are like Boom Boom, etc...

The non-boss characters are fantastic like the adorable snow dudes and the infectious Sombrero dudes.

The graphics and art are actually great, just hurt by the blah resolution.

For what it is, it's a triumphant game; I just prefer the innovation of the Galaxy series.

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Huh... it's part of a legendary series and has massive expectations behind, so even a great game can fail to rise to the heights of its series. It's a perfectly valid sentiment, just move past the phraseology.

The Broodals are a huge part of the narrative and experience. Obvs mileage will vary there - I find them pretty awful to look at.

 

[JayBee]

It's not really like Mario 64 at all, it's actually much more like Banjo Kazooie.

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Apart from there being more moons than just main ones, and the fact you're not thrown out the world after getting main moons, not very different imo

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Odyssey is the best 3d Mario game

1. Odyssey
2. 64
3. Galaxy
4. Galaxy 2
5. 3D World
6. 3D Land
7. Sunshine

 

[Glio]

There is not even something that can be used to define 3D Mario in conjunction with how different they are from each other

 

[TheLastOne]

I 100% prefer the open world design and exploration of Odyssey over the more standard linear Galaxy, although Galaxy was a fantastic game too.

However, I think Super Mario 64 was better than both and truly changed the face of gaming all while provided an amazing experience filled with secrets and things to find.

SM64 > Odyssey > Galaxy > Sunshine

 

[chrisypoo]

Odyssey is my favorite 3D Mario since 64.

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Same.
Also, the comment about the team obviously being new based on a grass texture is just really odd to me. The grass is fine, the art direction is incredible, the open worlds worked to its benefit by making it the most seamless and accessible Mario game yet, not to mention respectful of your time, (tons of moons, yet I beat the game far faster than I usually do Mario games), and the character designs are incredibly charming.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Apart from there being more moons than just main ones, and the fact you're not thrown out the world after getting main moons, not very different imo

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The stage design is absolutely nothing like SM64 at all. Unlike SM64 and SMS, there's not much actual platforming involved when just traversing each stage in Odyssey; but rather there are little pockets of platforming content scattered throughout a quasi-open world. It's more of an action adventure game with elements of platforming than a pure platformer.

It's FAR more like Banjo Kazooie in that regard, even down to the minigames and NPC tasks. That's not necessarily a bad thing; though I don't think it's as good as BK or BT.

 

[Rosebud]

I didn't loved it either. But I liked the boss battles

 

[Huey]

It's a new type of 3D Mario focused on having a large volume of bite-sized content. For what it is, I had a ton of fun while I was playing it. But while the rest of the games are filled with all of these magical moments that stem from creative gameplay sequences or memorable level design, in Odyssey the lion's share of the high points consist of fan service and not much else.

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This is a great way of summarizing how I feel.

Interesting you raise that it's designed for bite-sized content - you wonder how much the switch's design influenced the gameplay choices here. I wouldn't buy too much influence though - Galaxy's objectives aren't long at all, they're just better designed and more rewarding that what's on offer here.

Same.
Also, the comment about the team obviously being new based on a grass texture is just really odd to me. The grass is fine, the art direction is incredible, the open worlds worked to its benefit by making it the most seamless and accessible Mario game yet, not to mention respectful of your time, (tons of moons, yet I beat the game far faster than I usually do Mario games), and the character designs are incredibly charming.

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Yeah mileage will definitely vary on the art. That's much more of a personal thing, I just feel like it kind of feels off with the rest of the series.

The stage design is absolutely nothing like SM64 at all. There's not much actual platforming involved when just traversing each stage; but rather there are little pockets of platforming content scattered throughout a quasi-open world.

It's FAR more like Banjo Kazooie in that regard, even down to the minigames and NPC tasks. That's not necessarily a bad thing; though I don't think it's as good as BK or BT.

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I am not at all getting the comparisons to 64 either. To me 64 is actually the mario that this is arguably furthest from

 

[Deleted member 1635]

It's never going to be beat my nostalgia for Mario 64, but it's definitely my favorite 3D Mario game otherwise. I just really like open world Mario and the ability to goof around. The Galaxy games probably have way tighter linear level design and boss fights, but I rarely find myself wanting to go back and play them despite loving them when they first came out. Mario 64 and Odyssey have something that constantly pulls me back in.

 

[Amnixia]

This is a hard one, but I honestly loved odyssey.

I felt it was better then 3D world.

Without putting grades I'd say:
1. Galaxy 1
2. Galaxy 2
3. Odyssey
4. Sunshine
5. 3D World
6. Mario 64

Now, Mario 64 is a classic and a great game but mechanically it aged poorly and the newer itterations of 3D Mario are better replacements.

 

[Aostia82]

I prefer the more streamlined games, like galaxy and world

 

[EJS]

I agree - it's a great game but lacking overall as a Mario title.

 

[leder]

I'm the weirdo that liked it much more than the galaxy games but less than sunshine and 3d world.

 

[MillionIII]

Odyssey is fantastic but I do prefer 3d world's art direction, some worlds are just not that good looking. In terms of gameplay it's probably the best imo.

 

[HustleBun]

The whole "3D World > Odssey" hot take makes me want to rip my hair out. 3D World's great level designs were overshadowed by it's overabundance of mediocre ones. I also really disliked the game's soundtrack and vanilla art direction.

 

[Mifec]

It's a legit 6/10 game. Horrible time wasting every time you get a moon, most moon take zero effort and are not even worth it. A mechanic is introduced then never used again, never used in conjunction with another.

A major disappointment for me.

 

[Mekanos]

Mario has never controlled as well as he did in Odyssey, but 64 and 3D World win out for me in design and pacing. It's definitely the breath of fresh air the IP needed though.

 

[Eriol]

i think this argument its dangerously close to the "Belda" arguments, never made sense to me

 

[leder]

The whole "3D World > Odssey" hot take makes me want to rip my hair out. 3D World's great level designs were overshadowed by it's overabundance of mediocre ones. I also really disliked the game's soundtrack and vanilla art direction.

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How in the world is preferring 3D world a hot take? They are pretty different games with different foci and different strengths. A "hot take" is not just an opinion that you don't hold.

 

[eXistor]

I feel people really miss the point when they say Odyssey's artstyle is inconsistent. It's meant to evoke travel guides and such, which is kind of the theme in the game: traveling to wildly different locales.

Earthbound's amazing Player's Guide was like that too:

But on the game itself: it lacked challenge throughout and was riddled with superfluous moons. A fun game to be sure, but not a favorite of mine. 3D World, Mario 64 and Galaxy still reign supreme in terms of 3D Mario's.

 

[Procheno]

Now all of a sudden 3d World is the masterpiece gem the series deserves when before everyone called it fun but derivative of a Mario game ;P