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Super Meat Boy Forever PC version will be on the Epic Games Store (Update: Not On Steam for 1 Year)

Oct 25, 2017
647
People are so used to Steam being the default PC gaming client that double clicking another icon to launch a game is unfathomable to them.
I'd say things are too good on the consumer side of Steam. I mean, you only get 2 refunds on Epic Launcher. Sure, with the amount of games available now, you'll be able to refund all games, but in the future, what happens if you need them? Isn't it better for me, the consumer, if I get almost unlimited refunds? And what do I, as a consumer, benefit of developers getting more money for me to take the leap?

I'm not saying it's bad, it's awesome that devs get more money, but there is no real benefit for me and that's what really matters. Otherwise I wouldn't support consoles, would I?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,268
Fanboying means being so in love with a brand that you’ll argue and defend a product. Do you really think that’s what’s happening here? Do you really think it’s just a load of Epic launcher fans?

No it’s people against fanboys of any kind. Now a new breed of launcher fanboys has emerged, it’s just another thing to be embarrassed about being a gamer over.
It becomes problem when we have exact same arguments on each page of each. And no, they don't have to be "epic launcher" fans and many of them are fanboys too.
 
Dec 9, 2017
691
you might wanna look at the actual Devs and games Epic picked so far. Not a single one of them has really been struggling and they have been hugely successful in the past. Epic doesn't seem very interested in the little guy actually struggling to make ends meet so far.

I already have this client installed but I won't be buying games on it because it's issues are far more deep than "it's just another launcher"
I'm not sure why you think a company like Epic, trying to start their own online store to compete with other well established stores would selectively pick devs nobody knows or cares about to launch their store? How can you even say what Epic is and isn't yet with regards to "the little guy"? You're talking out of your ass, plain and simple.

I'd make the argument that Valve's recent decision to change their revenue split with developers only if they reach a number of sales that most "little guys" will never hope to achieve shows that they care just as little, if not less at this point. Any comment on that, since you're worried about the little guy?
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,653
I'm not sure why you think a company like Epic, trying to start their own online store to compete with other well established stores would selectively pick devs nobody knows or cares about to launch their store? How can you even say what Epic is and isn't yet with regards to "the little guy"? You're talking out of your ass, plain and simple.

I'd make the argument that Valve's recent decision to change their revenue split with developers only if they reach a number of sales that most "little guys" will never hope to achieve shows that they care just as little, if not less at this point. Any comment on that, since you're worried about the little guy?
Valve actually allows the little guy to be in the store. Epic doesn't.
 
Nov 21, 2018
151
https://www.pcgamer.com/team-meat-describe-nightmare-xbox-development-everyone-should-love-on-steam/

This is baffling. First they thought XBox was the next big thing, they jumped on it, saw it wasn't exactly the dream they believed, right after they ported the game on Steam, made millions out of it, they sold more copies of the game in two weeks than the whole time the game was XBox exclusive.

I remember they were so successful they were featured in the Indie Game: The Movie, how they basically became rich with this game...than of course the sequel is releasing and they decide to release it on Epic Store first in order to get those Epic money first and fuck all the people which supported us in the past, they will wait or they'll buy the game on the Epic Store.

I love how people here on Era always care about developer's rights but as soon as the same devs show they are in just to follow the money, not giving a fuck about people who made their success possible, plenty of justifications happen.

People should learn there's only a seller-customer relation between developers and gamers: if I like what you are proposing I'll buy it, but I owe you nothing if not my money and you owe me nothing too when you give me the game I paid for. But it seems people need to consider all the industry problems first than they can talk about the game they bought, which is not right.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,009
Belgium
https://www.pcgamer.com/team-meat-describe-nightmare-xbox-development-everyone-should-love-on-steam/

This is baffling. First they thought XBox was the next big thing, they jumped on it, saw it wasn't exactly the dream they believed, right after they ported the game on Steam, made millions out of it, they sold more copies of the game in two weeks than the whole time the game was XBox exclusive.

I remember they were so successful they were featured in the Indie Game: The Movie, how they basically became rich with this game...than of course the sequel is releasing and they decide to release it on Epic Store first in order to get those Epic money first and fuck all the people which supported us in the past, they will wait or they'll buy the game on the Epic Store.

I love how people here on Era always care about developer's rights but as soon as the same devs show they are in just to follow the money, not giving a fuck about people who made their success possible, plenty of justifications happen.

People should learn there's only a seller-customer relation between developers and gamers: if I like what you are proposing I'll buy it, but I owe you nothing if not my money and you owe me nothing too when you give me the game I paid for. But it seems people need to consider all the industry problems first than they can talk about the game they bought, which is not right.
This post is spot on. Well done m8!
 

supervga

Storyboard Artist - Netflix
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
555
Does the Epic launcher cost money or something? Otherwise I see zero reason why this is controversial or bad at all
I'm also baffled.
Arguing, like poster above, that they they are BETRAYING the people that made them rich is so so strange to me.

I have no interest in bug testing the Epic store yet but I bet that playing the game in April is not going to be any different whether its Steam or Epic.
Folks just need to hate something / have to put up barricades.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,468
The gaming community is the most tribalistic community in the fucking world. And I mean more tribalistic than actual IRL tribes lol. Jesus Christ people. Have some self awareness.

A new launcher? A new store? How DARE they!
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,659
Does the Epic launcher cost money or something? Otherwise I see zero reason why this is controversial or bad at all
I'm also baffled.
Arguing, like poster above, that they they are BETRAYING the people that made them rich is so so strange to me.

I have no interest in bug testing the Epic store yet but I bet that playing the game in April is not going to be any different whether its Steam or Epic.
Folks just need to hate something / have to put up barricades.
Both or you should take a look at the various threads about the issue and read a few of the many comprehensive posts explaining why this is a big deal. After so much discussion on this topic I don't think anyone should enter the discussion without doing the bare minimum of research.
 

okay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
541
The gaming community is the most tribalistic community in the fucking world. And I mean more tribalistic than actual IRL tribes lol. Jesus Christ people. Have some self awareness.

A new launcher? A new store? How DARE they!
PC people are just anti paying for exclusivity

No one cares about another store. Minecraft, League of Legends, Blizzard games, EA games all require their own launchers and people still play them
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,473
The gaming community is the most tribalistic community in the fucking world. And I mean more tribalistic than actual IRL tribes lol. Jesus Christ people. Have some self awareness.

A new launcher? A new store? How DARE they!
Maybe you wouldn't have this opinion if you actually read any of the points in the thread instead of just posting driveby nonsense.

A lot of us don't care if someone wants to release a new launcher. A lot of us happily buy games from GOG or Itch or someone else happy to compete with consumer friendly features. However, when that company then buys forced exclusivity while not even meeting basic features, not supporting regional pricing, and not supporting our operating system of choice then we have a problem.

Launchers are not just a desktop icon. They are not equal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,561
The gaming community is the most tribalistic community in the fucking world. And I mean more tribalistic than actual IRL tribes lol. Jesus Christ people. Have some self awareness.

A new launcher? A new store? How DARE they!
Maybe you should look at some actual arguments about the issues they have with this, and think a bit about that the negativity surrounding Epic Store took of after the news that Epic had paid several developers to make their games exclusive to the store, and not buy the mere news that they were launching the store.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,755
The gaming community is the most tribalistic community in the fucking world. And I mean more tribalistic than actual IRL tribes lol. Jesus Christ people. Have some self awareness.

A new launcher? A new store? How DARE they!
This level of ‘didnt read’ driveby shitposting would not be acceptable in any thread about consoles.

And yet here we are.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,468
PC people are just anti paying for exclusivity

No one cares about another store. Minecraft, League of Legends, Blizzard games, EA games all require their own launchers and people still play them
And people hate them! I constantly see the people say similar shit about those stores.

This level of ‘didnt read’ driveby shitposting would not be acceptable in any thread about consoles.

And yet here we are.
I read almost the entire thread. My point remains the same.

You don't see what's bad with store owners paying devs to keep their games away from competing storefronts?
No I don’t. It’s not the same thing as console exclusives where you have to spend hundreds of dollars to get a game. All it takes is a separate download and a separate launcher. Or rather I see the negatives but the positives of the situation substantially outweigh it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
590
I think a lot of people see this as being anti-consumer, and to an extent it is. But what would you guys suggest they do to build a userbase on their storefront outside of exclusives? It's a challenge to get people to leave what they're used to.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,659
I think a lot of people see this as being anti-consumer, and to an extent it is. But what would you guys suggest they do to build a userbase on their storefront outside of exclusives? It's a challenge to get people to leave what they're used to.
Offer a better service, better prices, more stuff for our money. Provide incentives to customers instead of taking things away.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,755
And people hate them! I constantly see the people say similar shit about those stores.



I read almost the entire thread. My point remains the same.



No I don’t. It’s not the same thing as console exclusives where you have to spend hundreds of dollars to get a game. All it takes is a separate download and a separate launcher. Or rather I see the negatives but the positives of the situation substantially outweigh it.
Oh so you just didn’t bother to address any arguments and decided to just label any detractors as tribal.

That helps your argument even more.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,473
I think a lot of people see this as being anti-consumer, and to an extent it is. But what would you guys suggest they do to build a userbase on their storefront outside of exclusives? It's a challenge to get people to leave what they're used to.
Leverage their 88% cut along with better visibility/twich integration, a commitment to DRM free gaming, the development of more consumer oriented features and a more modern client than Steam, including features like tabbed browsing and library filtering, etc.

Basically, they could have combined the good things about GOG and Itch or contribute their own positive selling point, but with more money to throw around in building development tools and other generally benefitial things to get people to like them, rather than simply buying the exclusive games.

There are lots of things they can do to better Steam. Their 88% cut could have been the start of that, and would have aligned them with itch.io but with improved visibility. That would be fine. What they are doing instead is not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,755
Leverage their 88% cut along with better visibility/twich integration, a commitment to DRM free gaming, the development of more consumer oriented features and a more modern client than Steam, including features like tabbed browsing and library filtering, etc.

There are lots of things they can do to better Steam. Their 88% cut could have been the start of that, and would have aligned them with itch.io but with improved visibility. That would be fine. What they are doing instead is not.

They don’t even have a search function at the start.

Like what? It’s baffling
 

hivycox

User Requested Ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
38
User Banned (3 days): advocating piracy
I just want a steam version. Don't have the time and patience to have multiple platforms. Every game not available on steam, I'll get *somewhere* else...
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,161
It has been so, so disappointing to see some of the devs I respect embracing Epic's store like this.
I'm confused. I don't love Epic launcher because I just want to use steam and steam achieves and have my friends list and all that shit, but I don't hold the choice to use Epic against devs because they'll almost certainly do well for themselves out of the deal. They're probably being paid for their exclusivity contract, and they'll get pride of place on a new story with a dearth of hot new games. Why shouldn't they embrace that opportunity? What has Epic done to make a developer signing an exclusivity contract (something their entirely entitled to do with their own labour) a morally objectionable thing?
 
Nov 21, 2018
151
Well... Team Meat got a big payday. That's the only positive I see here.
It's not that they were starving, they only got even richer by getting a huge amount of money at once (because I suppose this is what Epid did, throwing them money), considering Forever should be a one button autorunner I think it costed way less than SMB, so probably the money they received from Epic already covered the cost of the game if they didn't get a profit already, any additional sale will probably be clean profit for Team Meat: they could achieve the same result within months if they released the game on Steam, GOG etc at the same time. I love how every move from publishers/developers is justified but as soon as players raise an issue, they are "entitled".
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,755
It's not that they were starving, they only got even richer by getting a huge amount of money at once (because I suppose this is what Epid did, throwing them money), considering Forever should be a one button autorunner I think it costed way less than SMB, so probably the money they received from Epic already covered the cost of the game if they didn't get a profit already, any additional sale will probably be clean profit for Team Meat: they could achieve the same result within months if they released the game on Steam, GOG etc at the same time. I love how every move from publishers/developers is justified but as soon as players raise an issue, they are "entitled".
From all initial appearances, this is just a payday for the bigger and more visible indie developers and games.

For all the supporters talk about Steams visibility issues, none of the games on Epic would have been subjected to those issues.

And yet we are suppose to be grateful
For less features out of pure charity.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,292
https://www.pcgamer.com/team-meat-describe-nightmare-xbox-development-everyone-should-love-on-steam/

This is baffling. First they thought XBox was the next big thing, they jumped on it, saw it wasn't exactly the dream they believed, right after they ported the game on Steam, made millions out of it, they sold more copies of the game in two weeks than the whole time the game was XBox exclusive.

I remember they were so successful they were featured in the Indie Game: The Movie, how they basically became rich with this game...than of course the sequel is releasing and they decide to release it on Epic Store first in order to get those Epic money first and fuck all the people which supported us in the past, they will wait or they'll buy the game on the Epic Store.

I love how people here on Era always care about developer's rights but as soon as the same devs show they are in just to follow the money, not giving a fuck about people who made their success possible, plenty of justifications happen.

People should learn there's only a seller-customer relation between developers and gamers: if I like what you are proposing I'll buy it, but I owe you nothing if not my money and you owe me nothing too when you give me the game I paid for. But it seems people need to consider all the industry problems first than they can talk about the game they bought, which is not right.
Thank you. I'm beyond tired of the blind "support devs no matter what" notion that infests this board on a variety of topics not just this one. It's bad here because many of these indie devs were bitching about store curation when Steam did it but with Epic they don't care because they were chosen. It's pure "fuck you got mine". They want curation only until someone deems their game not worthy of being on the store, then it's the worst thing ever.

Supporting devs is fine to a point but it shouldn't come at your own expense. Your relationship with them begins and ends with the money you pay for their game. You don't owe them anything else.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,075
From all initial appearances, this is just a payday for the bigger and more visible indie developers and games.

For all the supporters talk about Steams visibility issues, none of the games on Epic would have been subjected to those issues.

And yet we are suppose to be grateful
For less features out of pure charity.
Pretty much.
There are countless indie devs on Steam. They've put out great games that unfortunately have sold next to nothing. Epic isn't interested in any of them though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,237
https://www.pcgamer.com/team-meat-describe-nightmare-xbox-development-everyone-should-love-on-steam/

This is baffling. First they thought XBox was the next big thing, they jumped on it, saw it wasn't exactly the dream they believed, right after they ported the game on Steam, made millions out of it, they sold more copies of the game in two weeks than the whole time the game was XBox exclusive.

I remember they were so successful they were featured in the Indie Game: The Movie, how they basically became rich with this game...than of course the sequel is releasing and they decide to release it on Epic Store first in order to get those Epic money first and fuck all the people which supported us in the past, they will wait or they'll buy the game on the Epic Store.

I love how people here on Era always care about developer's rights but as soon as the same devs show they are in just to follow the money, not giving a fuck about people who made their success possible, plenty of justifications happen.

People should learn there's only a seller-customer relation between developers and gamers: if I like what you are proposing I'll buy it, but I owe you nothing if not my money and you owe me nothing too when you give me the game I paid for. But it seems people need to consider all the industry problems first than they can talk about the game they bought, which is not right.
They're screwing over PC gamers, by releasing it on PC, is all I got from this.
 
Dec 15, 2017
303
I think this can go in 3 ways:

Scenario A (Positive): Due to the higher cut, freebies and Fortnite money behind, the Epic launcher gradually becomes an alternative to Steam, more and more devs choose to release on Epic instead. And due to their success, Epic develops and releases exclusive games to their platform. Valve's response is to develop and release single player killer apps again.

Scenario B (Negative): The Epic launcher is a failure because of features or failing to get a good number of games on it. Devs and Publishers treat pc gamers as pirates as they always do. Eventually releasing their games on consoles only, and we are back in 2006...

Scenario C (Neutral):Epic is just another alternative in the PC games market, but Steam keeps being the leader. Previous Epic exclusives are released on Steam and other platforms after the timed exclusivity period ends.

I believe C and A in that order are the most likely to happen. B is unlikely, but I can see most folks at Reset Era thinking this way. PC gaming perpetual doom and gloom theories are their thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,827
Scenario B (Negative): The Epic launcher is a failure because of features or failing to get a good number of games on it. Devs and Publishers treat pc gamers as pirates as they always do. Eventually releasing their games on consoles only, and we are back in 2006...
Epic already ran through scenario B before. And yet here they are crawling back.

All those others are not likely at all. If moneyhatting is seen as a success, steam will pump their money into that, instead of actually improving the platform as they do now.

Ah yes, those exclusive epic games that they had before like Paragon and UT which they dropped to pump resources into Fortnite.
 

Chronospherics

Games User Researcher at Player Research
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,481
Brighton
It downloads games. That's more-less it.
Ah well I was interested because steam obviously has a lot to deal with with regards to how users can find their downloads, the structure of the store and any other features. Particularly interested in the UI flow for finding and downloading games, and whether it had any social features.

Because games aside, the day to day user experience will be pretty pivotal in determining whether people want to use his to buy / launch games.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,392
People are so used to Steam being the default PC gaming client that double clicking another icon to launch a game is unfathomable to them.
This argument is so wonderfully lazy. Plenty of people have expressed in detail why they are not going to buy from the Epic Game Store right now.
Clearly, this is not lazy console / platform warring, or "people are so used to Steam being the default", but rather a sup par service that many will avoid for now in favour of more feature complete solutions.

My two cents on the matter for me personally:

If I make a purchase, it is beholden to the place I am buying it and where I am accessing it - so it absolutely matters:

- Can you guarantee that I can get a refund if I have a problem with the game?
- Is the game going to be accessible with perpetuity from the store?
- Can I use my controller of choice correctly with the game?
- What about easy access to playing when I'm in the lounge, where I do most of my gaming? Am I meant to work around the deficiencies and lack of features of the store / ecosystem?

All trivial concerns clearly.
So when the choice comes between these concerns and a game elsewhere with none of these concerns that I also want - am I such an arsehole for exercising my free will and choosing the latter each time?

Fact is - there is no game at all that I care about so much that I absolutely have to buy it day one. All these amazing games are competing with each other. If there is even the slightest set of issues or concerns, I can easily pick other options and be just as happy. I have no problem with this - but clearly you do.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,329
I have no interest in bug testing the Epic store yet but I bet that playing the game in April is not going to be any different whether its Steam or Epic.
It's going to be quite significantly different.
  • It's not going to have Cloud saves, because apparently supporting a feature that has been on Steam for free for everyone for 10 years is asking too much.
  • It's going to be quite different for people on Linux, since the Epic store isn't there at all.
  • It's not going to have achievements, since that's another thing which is too tall an order in 2018.
  • It's not going to have in-home streaming, or advanced controller rebinding, or all the other stuff you get on Steam.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,429
It's going to be quite significantly different.
  • It's not going to have Cloud saves, because apparently supporting a feature that has been on Steam for free for everyone for 10 years is asking too much.
  • It's going to be quite different for people on Linux, since the Epic store isn't there at all.
  • It's not going to have achievements, since that's another thing which is too tall an order in 2018.
  • It's not going to have in-home streaming, or advanced controller rebinding, or all the other stuff you get on Steam.
But competition though. Surely providing a shitty, inferior service in 2018 will force Valve to improve even more.
 

chubigans

Vertigo Gaming Inc.
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
652
I'm confused. I don't love Epic launcher because I just want to use steam and steam achieves and have my friends list and all that shit, but I don't hold the choice to use Epic against devs because they'll almost certainly do well for themselves out of the deal. They're probably being paid for their exclusivity contract, and they'll get pride of place on a new story with a dearth of hot new games. Why shouldn't they embrace that opportunity? What has Epic done to make a developer signing an exclusivity contract (something their entirely entitled to do with their own labour) a morally objectionable thing?
I will have more to say about all of this soon, but let me just say that 1) I don't blame any dev taking the initial offer to be on the store at launch, as it's such a huge opportunity that I probably would have taken it myself if I was in their position, and 2) I do think, now that we know everything about the store and the backlash right now, it is a much different story to still be championing it as a boon for indies everywhere, because we're outright ignoring the fans that got us here in the first place. It is a straight up worse deal for everyone involved except for devs and Epic. But as I said, I'll be posting more soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,161
I will have more to say about all of this soon, but let me just say that 1) I don't blame any dev taking the initial offer to be on the store at launch, as it's such a huge opportunity that I probably would have taken it myself if I was in their position, and 2) I do think, now that we know everything about the store and the backlash right now, it is a much different story to still be championing it as a boon for indies everywhere, because we're outright ignoring the fans that got us here in the first place. It is a straight up worse deal for everyone involved except for devs and Epic. But as I said, I'll be posting more soon.
Thanks for your response, I look forward to reading your thoughts about it!
 
Oct 27, 2017
548
New Jersey
This game was said to have Linux support but the Epic Store doesn't have Linux support. That's some fuckery right there.
This is true, and something people should be concerned about. If the PC version of game is exclusive to the Epic Games Store for a year, then Linux gamers are effectively shut out of the ability to play that game during that first year.

If Epic doesn't want to dabble in Linux support, then they should just have exclusivity on the Windows and Mac OS versions, and allow the Linux version to be released elsewhere.

What a mess, Annapurna Interactive is just abusing Steam and Valve at this point. They may or may not sell the game on Steam at a later date, but right now they are using Steam's robust community tools to their advantage while selling a game on Epic Store. How is Valve OK with this??
I doubt that they're "OK with this". If the game isn't going to be on Steam for the foreseeable future, then they should remove the game's page.

Competition isn't bad, but the competition is not understand the platform they are trying to sell on and doing things that will actively turn-off their userbase. One of the big reasons PC gamers chose PC is because they like the openess of it, where to play your games, customize them, etc. So trying to close off games exclusively to certain markets is not the way to win over this playerbase, especially when there's already a standard in place here theseo ther stores aren't living up to.
Good point.

I don't think there's a problem with Epic trying to offer exclusive games on their store (as they would obviously do this for their own games anyway). But, if Epic's actions are eliminating options that would have otherwise existed without them (such as the Linux example that Kylac posted above), then that's a problem.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,755
Gabe might have to start being a tad less nice about this sort of stuff sadly, Epic's greed is gonna cause some hurt.
That’s the irony, the way the devs are speaking, they are banking on Valve being consumer friendly and not start buying exclusives like Epic is.

So they hoping valve doesn’t engage in what they themselves are engaged in.
 
Dec 9, 2017
691
It's going to be quite significantly different.
  • It's not going to have Cloud saves, because apparently supporting a feature that has been on Steam for free for everyone for 10 years is asking too much.
  • It's going to be quite different for people on Linux, since the Epic store isn't there at all.
  • It's not going to have achievements, since that's another thing which is too tall an order in 2018.
  • It's not going to have in-home streaming, or advanced controller rebinding, or all the other stuff you get on Steam.
It's not going to have, or it currently doesn't have, those features?