Melee had a ridiculously aggressive development cycle and had 6 clones which were more different from their base characters than Ultimate clones will be.
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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Development Thread | News, Site Updates, and Speculation
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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You're reading someone who wants the fUll FF series incorprarted into his moveset rather than a straight fully predictable Cloud rip from FF7.
Summon Materia could be used by anyone in FF7 while Omnislash is the main characters defining, ultimate attack. I know which one id choose. If anything Ike and Kirby and Link? should be like "ok, yeah we kinda stole that one"
It's not "the fact" though, because the site even contradicts itself. The Fighters page counts PT Pokemon as unique characters but not Echoes, the About page counts Echoes as unique characters but not PT Pokemon.
If this was Melee, the About page would say 25 characters - as Sheik wouldn't get counted but the clones would - and the Fighters page would say 19 characters - as Sheik would get counted, but the clones wouldn't.
Yet, we all know that Melee has 26 characters if you count all transformations and clones as characters, as you should.
Uhh, all the characters that are going to be in the game have been decided at this point. As for why new characters don't appear in the trailers, is probably so that they don't accidentally leak any non-shown characters yet. Better to play it safe by just not having them in the other trailers.
I haven't been paid attention to the changes to Zero Suit Samus, but did they actually change her model?
I wasn't saying they were going to swap out characters, I meant, nothing was stopping them from swapping Ridley or Daisy out for some other character's trailer and echo's trailer because the way the videos were structured.
Cloud is not meant to represent the entire FF series; Cloud is meant to represent Cloud. If they wanted a generic character representative of the FF series, they would have picked Warrior of Light or Onion Kid. Expecting them to remove Cloud's signature moves for the sake of shoehorning stuff with next to no relationship to him, just so they check all the boxes in your arbitrary "FF stuff I want in Smash" list, is absurd.
In a more general sense, characters aren't meant to be "unpredictable", they're meant to make sense. The fact that Cloud has the most logical choices for all his moves is a virtue, not a defect.
The bigger change is that the suit actually makes physical sense, like actual cloth rather than body paint.
What evidence, the evidence that they're both small primates who control and play differently in the games they originate from? That's some big evidence alright. You'd have a point if Diddy was based on Tropical Freeze but he's not, he's primarily built around DKC2 with elements of the character that originated from DK64 - a game that also had a Dixie Kong "replacement" in that same vein.
The supposition that Dixie wouldn't work as an echo is no less conjecture than the "evidence" that she would. It's a shaky excuse to justify the inclusion of a character people seem to be realizing might not be different enough to justify a proper inclusion. It's practically denial at this rate.
Also literally the only reason Ganondorf has remained a Captain Falcon clone is because Sakurai is too scared to alienate the players who actually like his playstyle. That's why it only took us until the fifth Smash game until he got his sword. It's highly doubtful we'll ever get another character like that who borrows a moveset from an entirely unrelated series just to cover some esoteric essentials.
Melee also has completely broken balancing, of which over half of the roster is completely useless.
So how would you guys feel if these were the non-echo fighter newcomers for the base roster?
Inkling
Ridley
K. Rool
Dixie
Elma
Chorus Kids (or some other Rhythm Heaven character)
Sun/Moon Pokemon
Excite Biker
Simon Belmont
Honestly, I think this is a fairly reasonable lineup. One could definitely tell that Sakurai planned the roster back in early 2016 looking at the above. And like I said, there really wasn't a whole lot from that period to draw from for more characters or stages, outside of Splatoon, Rhythm Heaven, Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade X and Sun/Moon. Out of all the 'irrelevent' first party characters that people clamor for, I think K. Rool has the highest chance due to just how everlasting and vocal his supporters have been over the years.
Inkling
Ridley
K. Rool
Dixie
Elma
Chorus Kids (or some other Rhythm Heaven character)
Sun/Moon Pokemon
Excite Biker
Simon Belmont
Honestly, I think this is a fairly reasonable lineup. One could definitely tell that Sakurai planned the roster back in early 2016 looking at the above. And like I said, there really wasn't a whole lot from that period to draw from for more characters or stages, outside of Splatoon, Rhythm Heaven, Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade X and Sun/Moon. Out of all the 'irrelevent' first party characters that people clamor for, I think K. Rool has the highest chance due to just how everlasting and vocal his supporters have been over the years.
That's a fine roster, if not maybe a little boring.
K Rool could probably even fill the "surprise retro character" space this time around if they wanted him to be that.
K Rool could probably even fill the "surprise retro character" space this time around if they wanted him to be that.
over half are useless for what, winning supermajors? this comment is kind of baffling
Would be fantastic and way better than I ever expected. Reps for franchises in need of more characters and very nice choices, with many Nintendo fan favorites.
Smash 4 DLC was meh to me, so I never expected to like Smash Ultimate newcomers choices before Ridley, so even seeing these characters as likely is great.
I actually wanted to include Excite Biker as the retro rep but I forgot to, thanks for reminding me.
Both of Wario's AT MIA, Wario Land announcement coming soon, Wario Ware Gold being released in a month and 2 weeks, Wario Ware Switch reveal incoming. I hope you are all ready for July's Wario Direct.
That looks like a solid roster, albeit a bit lacking on the wild choices Sakurai makes. I wouldn't be upset if this did end up being the roster though.
I'm just joking, but there is smoke regarding the Wario Land VB remake. I do think that we're getting a Direct sooner rather than later. The English Yokai Watch account teased that something is happening soon.
"And one more thing. Please take a look."
*Smash intro*
*Ashley, Waluigi, and Captain Syrup appear*
*shoved out of the way by the actual newcomer, Baby Daisy*
The fact that they have near identical shape just like every other echo is definitely big indeed. As I've said like three times now, they don't play too differently from the games they originate in. Also the fact that seemingly only Diddy's tail moves have been removed and nothing else. That would be a crazy specific coincidence if it's not for this. I also never said I'm 100% convinced she's an echo. I literally just said in my last post that she could be either one for all I care.
Your argument most definitely is more based on conjecture than evidence compared to mine. You keep making remarks along the lines of "Sakurai wouldn't do that" or "at best we'll get two more echoes" or "you're in denial" which are blind remarks made based on nothing entirely. And denial? Fucking come on. If Dixie doesn't even have a trophy in this game I won't care much at all. But the fact stands that she's a popular choice and one of the most well known character of the requested characters, so it's purely asinine to call it "denial" when she's probably more likely than most other characters. You accusing me of denial is precisely what I mean by saying you think you know what Sakurai thinks and is why you can't compare your line of logic to mine at all. I also like how in literally the same post you go from calling her completely different to "not being different enough." At least try to be consistent when you make an argument like this.
They didn't rerecord the announcer? That's surprising. I guess it isn't necessary, but it'll be a first.
Then Baby Daisy gets knocked off the stage by the real newcomer, a FE character
A single player 2d platformer wario ware would fill in a gap on the switch in September or something
Look at my 3 beautiful mains! Handsome, rugged, powerful!
DK has been a little bad with a lot of good. Bowser as been a little good with a lot of bad. Ridley has been all bad! These mutherfletchers compliment each other so nicely!
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Avatar question!
What posted here is what I want for my avatar but the back ground either shows up as black or white. What's the problem? I know it's transparent but doesn't show up that way in my avatar.
Ooooh! Let me try!
Too predictable. Excite Biker is too easy a guess to be the surprise character and I still don't think both Dixie and K Rool are going to happen. I personally think this entry will have less first parties and more third parties.
Speaking of which, even though no Tekken on a nintendo console, I am slightly surprised one did not show up due to namco involvement. But Namco does already have Pacman in and that is the best possible choice obviously
With a counter and dancing blade, but has a Dark Toad in her animations
Sakurai has outright stated that Heihachi was seriously considered for Smash 4.
This is just about what I'd call the best case scenario. You could even knock one or two characters off and I'd still love this list.
That would be fantastic for me, pretty much everyone I want (except Wonder Red, but he's probably a pipe dream by now) and a few more to round out the roster. I admit I'd be curious to know how the hell Excite Biker would work.
Frankly a Rhythm Heaven rep plus Simon would already make me happy, everything else is just icing.
Tekken tag tournament 2 released on the wiiu, so yeah theres was a tekken on a nintendo console. It even has nintendo costumes.
Oh wait, there was also a tekken on GBA.
I think I would throw myself into traffic if that was the case. Captain Syrup being teased but not making it in would break me.
Ooooh! Let me try!
You know, I kind of was thinking to myself that I'll have to pick up Mewtwo in Ultimate to play the Purple Baddie Squad.
I didn't say they play "completely" differently so my argument is consistent. They're different enough that if you want to stick true to the character she would have to be a semi-clone at minimum. The question is whether that kind of inclusion is worth having right now in Smash Ultimate. To that end there is still the strong chance that she isn't different enough given the "hope you dont expect too many newcomers" comment which puts her in an awkward middle spot. I'm not sure why this is something worth contesting unless you're latching onto a zero effort modelswap as the only chance she has, which is kinda telling.
The only evidence to support that she's an echo is the fact that both are of similar size despite their posture, mechanics and traits differing enough to the point that there's an equal enough evidence to suggest she works at best as a Wolf or Falco-styled character. Why is that less likely than being an echo? We don't actually know yet whether Diddy's tail attack is removed; it could be a new jab finisher/gentleman.
Smash 4 has a lot more usable characters than Melee. Even low tiers in Smash 4 have a chance to win tournaments, that same thing though cannot be said for Melee.
Melee is a completely broken game in terms of balance, where characters who aren't the top, don't even stand a chance.
I wouldn't be surprised if the old ones were just placeholder. It really shouldn't be hard to record new ones, it might happen late in development
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