Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 3 | Seeking Answers to the Un-Bear-able Quest-ions!

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
Western New York
It was either this or not have "Everyone is here!"

Were you willing to make that sacrifice?
They didn't have to reveal Dark Samus and Chrom in the August Direct. They could have did a little Smash video at some point in the middle where they revealed those two

I don't really understand how "Everyone is here" has anything to do with the awkward way Ultimate news was revealed, or why a different reveal plan would have required the concept to be dropped.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,816
In hindsight it was also basically a big red flag to anyone who was hoping for guys from unrepresented series like Golden Sun, Banjo-Kazooie, etc

We didn't figure back in August that our last few newcomers for the base roster were going to be from Animal Crossing, Street Fighter and Pokemon. What a way to go out
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
They didn't have to reveal Dark Samus and Chrom in the August Direct. They could have did a little Smash video at some point in the middle where they revealed those two

I don't really understand how "Everyone is here" has anything to do with the awkward way Ultimate news was revealed, or why a different reveal plan would have required the concept to be dropped.
They wanted to squish everything into three directs because it was a shorter cycle than usual and less to reveal.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,519
Scenario:

The timeline of this fighter's pass has been so weirdly paced because after seeing how insanely successful the game and the pass have been sales wise, Nintendo asked Sakurai and his team to expand the scope of DLC plans for Ultimate. The team is working not only to finish up Hero and Banjo, not only to get solid builds for Figthers 4 and 5, but at this point they've also started development on the DLC content that will be coming after the fighter's pass.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
Honestly if they just switched the belmont reveal with kencineroar, I think ot would change everyone's prespective a lot.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
They didn't have to do it that way

The August Direct also set expectations for the number of newcomers way higher than the final total was. Dark Samus and Chrom did not need to be revealed in that Direct.
Sakurai literally said in that direct after the 4 characters "we have a few more fighters to reveal, so stay tuned." After e3 where he said "so we hope you aren't expwcting too many new challengers."
 

jph139

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,714
Massachusetts
Yeah, having 2 reveals (+ everyone is here) in June, then 4 reveals in August, then... 3 for the rest of the year was poorly conceived.

I guess they wanted two "full" newcomers per Direct, but yeah, if nothing else I would have saved Dark Samus for the final direct.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
4,352
The reveal schedule for Ultimate in general has been poorly paced

Sure did love waiting waiting months on end to get any new info with absolutely nothing inbetween Directs (outside of new music tracks)
For real. It's still baffling to me that they revealed two huge newcomers and three (though Richter would have always been revealed with Simon) echoes in the same Smash Direct, aside from all the other stuff they revealed. They could have easily split some of that stuff up over time, especially because what followed was a low-key Isabelle reveal and the dreaded Kencineroar double reveal.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
Western New York
No...it's not hindsight because I literally said it since e3 from last year and kept saying it. I even said this to you specifically a lot. It's not sakurai's fault people think he plays 5d chess.
"A few more" is not a hard number. It doesn't mean anything.

There's also cases where Sakurai straight up said "a few more" was like 6 or whatever, I forget the exact amount.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
"A few more" is not a hard number. It doesn't mean anything.

There's also cases where Sakurai straight up said "a few more" was like 6 or whatever, I forget the exact amount.
He said a few more before k.rool. After he said it. There were 3 more characters left and one echo. 4 definitely fits the definition of a few.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,324
I think it was fine how they did it. Sakurai was pretty upfront about things like the stage count, and people still expected a Gen 7 stage for Incineroar. The final Direct still gave us 3 character reveals.
 

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
11,705
Sydney, Australia
It turned out they weren't vague though, and people should beleive what sakurai says.
I mean hey, you were wrong in the pre-release period too (i'm sure everyone was in some way). You were lowballing after E3; so maybe it isn't good to take Sakurai's word too literally, hmm?

It's honestly funny, seeing as my newcomer count prediction on that page was actually correct (if you count Piranha Plant as a base roster character, seeing as it was clearly planned for it); Unique vs. Echo breakdown was off though.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,073
I legitimately forgot King Boo was even in Double Dash lol

Now I wonder if that design is actually more based on Sunshine's King Boo, since his partner is Petey. And we've been stuck with it ever since.
I interpret them as more of a rival team for Mario and Luigi, representing villains from their respective GCN games.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
According to Sakurai, like 3 weeks is also a "few days" so yea...
He said that Like 12 days later, but even then, the dude was tired and across the country at the time and was just answering an offhand question. Different from him specifying characters left in a direct.
I mean hey, you were wrong in the pre-release period too (i'm sure everyone was in some way). You were lowballing after E3; so maybe it isn't good to take Sakurai's word too literally, hmm?

It's honestly funny, seeing as my newcomer count prediction on that page was actually correct (if you count Piranha Plant as a base roster character, seeing as it was clearly planned for it); Unique vs. Echo breakdown was off though though.
Was off by 1 newcomer and 1 echo. I did later say I wouldn't be too shocked by 6 unique but held to 5.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
Western New York
He said that Like 12 days later, but even then, the dude was tired and across the country at the time and was just answering an offhand question. Different from him specifying characters left in a direct.

Was off by 1 newcomer and 1 echo. I did later say I wouldn't be too shocked by 6 unique but held to 5.
So what Sakurai says only counts when you can claim you were right all along. When he makes up some nonsense "a few days ago" number which was actually 12 days, apparently it's because he's tired and it doesn't count. Even though you have no idea about any of the reasons he might have said a few days was 12 days. Maybe he actually thinks 12 is "a few" I mean, that's about as much of a legitimate read of what he said as "he was tired"
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
So what Sakurai says only counts when you can claim you were right all along. When he makes up some nonsense "a few days ago" number which was actually 14 days, apparently it's because he's tired and it doesn't count what Sakurai said.
Yea, because him answering some offhand questions to a dude at gamescon isn't the same as a direct. The days wasn't even the point of what he said, he said like "yea we revealed those characters a few days ago and I've been excited to see reactions to how people like them."
 

NeonZ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,277
Because...

In Mario 64 DS, King Boo looked like a giant boo with a goofy crown. This may have been to fit the art style better, or because the "real" King Boo didn't work with the DS' limited graphics.
Actually, Double Dash came before all of those and had King Boo as a Boo with a crown. So, really that's the culprit. It's weird because the original Luigi's Mansion was developed by EAD, with veteran producers and directors, so unlike other spin-off characters there's no obvious reason they just ignored Luigi's Mansion. Apparently they just think that the shadowy face doesn't fit the actual "Mario" aesthetic.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
Actually, Double Dash came before all of those and had King Boo as a Boo with a crown. So, really that's the culprit. It's weird because the original Luigi's Mansion was developed by EAD, with veteran producers and directors, so unlike other spin-off characters there's no obvious reason they just ignored Luigi's Mansion. Apparently they just think that the shadowy face doesn't fit the actual "Mario" aesthetic.
I think it comes down to that, they just think the more cutesy looking king boo is better for spinoffs that are about fun and not being spooky like luigis mansion.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,826
It should be said that Melee more than doubled the original's cast, and Brawl and 4 both added at least 15 newcomers each. Ultimate is the odd one out, and even then it added at least 10 if you count either the Echoes or the Fighter Pass (I personally count the former because of Ultimate making an explicit point on including them).
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,324
Nintendo had decided that the bandana wasn't a good choice for their new mook turned major character, so opted for a crown.
huehuehuehuehue
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,161
I will say their releases/reveal schedule for the DLC has been excruciatingly poorly paced.
Yeah, it hasn't been the best. I understand the characters take time to develop, but in the 7 months since release we have one character from the Fighter's Pass. Fortunately that part is over, because we're about to get 4 more characters over the next 7 months.

Hopefully Hero is released within the next few weeks.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
Either way, the dicussion about the reveal schedule is moot now. Maybe it could have been handled different, but it's only being brought up now because people panicking about dlc delays.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,661
People getting concerned about the DLC schedule should be glad that they didn't get into Soul Clibur VI.

There you get no communication, huge gaps between characters, and most of them aren't even characters you want.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
It's not panicking about delays to say the DLC reveals/releases have been incredibly poorly paced.
They're only paced "poorly" because joker was revealed so early. No one was expecting it at all there. That was considered good then, but now not good since joker clearly wasn't ready to fully reveal yet.
 

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
11,705
Sydney, Australia
It's pretty funny looking back on those old speculation days now; remembering how some people thought that 12 base newcomers was far too many because of Sakurai's comments.



Bada bing, bada boom.

I mean, I ended up overshooting my predictions later on, but I was pretty close around E3 (damn August Direct; making me go overboard on my expectations!)

I legitimately forgot King Boo was even in Double Dash lol

Now I wonder if that design is actually more based on Sunshine's King Boo, since his partner is Petey. And we've been stuck with it ever since.
You know what? That could very well be it.

Sunshine King Boo was obviously based on Sunshine's Boo designs, so when bringing the character over to spin-off series with a closer connection to the regular Mario universe and designs, they just adapted it to the regular Boo design.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
4,352
They're only paced "poorly" because joker was revealed so early. No one was expecting it at all there. That was considered good then, but now not good since joker clearly wasn't ready to fully reveal yet.
Even if Joker wasn't revealed as early, we'd still be on pace for potentially 2 releases in 7 months, with 4 more to go in the following 7. That's oddly spaced if nothing else.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,978
Even if Joker wasn't revealed as early, we'd still be on pace for potentially 2 releases in 7 months, with 4 more to go in the following 7. That's oddly spaced if nothing else.
Piranah plant, early feb. Joker mid April. Hero, possibly mid/late july. Banjo, late september or early October. 4, december. 5 February. Seems fine to me.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
4,352
Piranah plant, early feb. Joker mid April. Hero, possibly mid/late july. Banjo, late september or early October. 4, december. 5 February. Seems fine to me.
If you want to count plant in the Fighters Pass, I guess? Your list also doesn't account for the months of radio silence between these releases and reveals, which makes it feel weirder. The Hero/Banjo double reveal helped a bit there though, at least we won't be completely in the dark for months after Hero comes out.
Weird release schedules is just the norm for Smash DLC I guess

*gets flashback to the six month gap between Ryu and Cloud*
So long all my friends had fallen off of Smash and I literally never played as the last three characters outside of single player. That was wild.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,816
At least Smash 4's DLC had other things to keep us occupied between Ryu and Cloud, namely Mii Fighter costumes, new/returning stages like Mario Maker and Pirate Ship, and that shitty online tourney mode lol.