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r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
hmmm

Daisy hadn't really hit her big popularity, yet, I feel like that came after Double Dash.

I actually have a hard time thinking of 1 more clone for Melee

Maybe "Young Zelda" as a Zelda clone that has some gimmick where she summons Impa who is a clone of Sheik?

Baby Bowser, maybe? Mario Party had those Koopa Kid gremling things which were like Baby Bowser, so he was kinda still around, and Yoshi's Story made up the bulk of Yoshi's representation in the first few Smashes.
While I don't think Daisy had "hit it big" she definitely had presence and I could see a melee-styled Daisy taking advantage of being Peach But X instead of Peach! Again! I could see the appeal if Dr. mario wasn't on the table.

I'm not sure a "Young Zelda"/Impa would be in the cards, that'd be twice as much work load and it'd hilariously mean every zelda character had a clone.

Baby Bowser would be interesting, a Bowser about the size of Yoshi probably?
Hmm DK Jr? Jr was kind of on the outs already, but I think he'd be recognizable enough and double as a kind of throw back character.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,879
I think the wide gap between Ultimate and Smash 6 will help to give us a bigger pool of newcomers to consider, which should lead to some interesting speculation.

At the moment, the most likely additions would be:
Pokemon (obviously)
Spring Man or Min Min (assuming ARMS sticks around)
Fire Emblem (probably)
Xenoblade (which is one big question mark that depends entirely on where the series goes next)

And I'd argue that Mario and Kirby could potentially get another rep each, with King Boo probably being the front runner for Mario considering that Luigi's Mansion is its own subseries now, and then Bandanna Dee, Marx, or Magolor would all work fine for a fourth Kirby rep (though with Sakurai still calling the shots, anyone besides Marx would probably have really poor odds).

After that is when things get murky:

Splatoon is big enough to get another rep, but it doesn't really have much to work with beyond Octolings. They could work as a new character using Splatoon 2 weapons, but I still feel like they'd be kinda samey compared to Inklings in some ways.

Zelda already has all of the important characters that aren't one-offs. For it to get a newcomer, I feel like either an old character would have to be brought back with an incredibly substantial role, or a MAJOR new character would have to be introduced.

Dixie Kong seems like the biggest missing echo/semi clone. She wasn't popular enough that the Smash Ballot could do anything for like it did for K Rool, Dark Samus, and Chrom, so I really can't see her being unique, but she'd work just fine as an semiclone like Wolf or an echo in the vein of Chrom.

After that, everything for first parties pretty much just hinges on what games come out and gain popularity in the coming years before Smash 6's project plan. I wouldn't mind a roster with similar additions to Smash 4's, with interesting choices largely hailing from newer games.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
While I don't think Daisy had "hit it big" she definitely had presence and I could see a melee-styled Daisy taking advantage of being Peach But X instead of Peach! Again! I could see the appeal if Dr. mario wasn't on the table.

I'm not sure a "Young Zelda"/Impa would be in the cards, that'd be twice as much work load and it'd hilariously mean every zelda character had a clone.

Baby Bowser would be interesting, a Bowser about the size of Yoshi probably?
Hmm DK Jr? Jr was kind of on the outs already, but I think he'd be recognizable enough and double as a kind of throw back character.
Yea, Baby Bowser could be Bowser, but small. At least in Melee. I don't think a character like that would work anymore.

Who would you rather have as a Donkey Kong echo? Jr. or Funky?
Funky Kong

He's canonically the strongest Kong.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I'm never gonna tel

Nah.

I'm just happy Lucina is here. While it's not ideal it's still better then not being playable to me.
The thing with Lucina is that mechanically there's nothing that really differentiates her from Marth. Whereas Dixie Kong has had at least three games where her abilities are distinct enough from Diddy already. She's not a tabula rasa.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
Yea, Baby Bowser could be Bowser, but small. At least in Melee. I don't think a character like that would work anymore.
Man now I'm picturing how Baby Bowser would have had to work in Melee and thinking of him not coming back until Ultimate and getting that hella good glow up that Pichu got.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
Man now I'm picturing how Baby Bowser would have had to work in Melee and thinking of him not coming back until Ultimate and getting that hella good glow up that Pichu got.
Probably similar janky animation issues Pichu had in Melee due to having to scale everything down.

I'm surprised Young Link came out of Melee relatively normal, but I guess human characters might scale better down to child size

Baby Bowser likely would have killed Bowser Jr's chances. They look exactly the same in recent games.

Baby Bowser in 2001, though, really wouldn't look too different than Bowser scaled down
BabyBowserYoshi%27sStory.png
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
That's post-Awakening. My mindset is when the game originally came out. Sakurai leaned into her disguising as Marth for her character concept, whereas Dixie has always been separate from Diddy.


But as somebody who tends to dislike Echoes, it would be awesome if she got retooled into a spear wielder.
All those moves are based on things she can do in Awakening. If they wanted they could have made her a unique character.

But as someone who loves Lucina I'm just glad she's playable even if it's as an echo. I would just as easily be happy to see Tetra or Midna as Echo's.

Because to me it's better then the spirit or Assist Trophy ether.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,879
The thing with Lucina is that mechanically there's nothing that really differentiates her from Marth. Whereas Dixie Kong has had at least three games where her abilities are distinct enough from Diddy already. She's not a tabula rasa.
Dark Samus could easily have been given a unique moveset based on her boss fights, and yet they were fine with making her an echo anyway.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
Assuming that the Switch lasts for another 2-3 years, the next Smash game is probably another 4-5 years out. That may be enough time for this to come out & for another Xenoblade game to be made for the Switch's eventual successor.

With that said, if said new IP is successful, I could see it being a Smash contender.

Speculation time: Switch launched March 2017, so under a typical 5 year lifespan it would be March 2022 when we see new hardware. Since it has been so successful though I think we don't see a successor until the calendar year between March 2023 and March 2024.

Sakurai will get the call from Nintendo for a new Smash roughly 1 year before said successor launches. So 2022 to 2023 sometime is my guess. That's the sweet spot where he will look at the latest games.

This new IP was first teased in 2017. So either a 2020 or 2021 launch makes sense. Then pad that with a typical year of DLC support to 2021 or 2022. Monolithsoft is also assisting Nintendo on the Zelda series, so I assume part of their staff is on BotW2.

My current guess is that the new IP stands the best chance. Of course Smash could come later next gen, among other things. I think Xenoblade 3 isn't until the next console, so I have doubts it hits the timing right.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
Probably similar janky animation issues Pichu had in Melee due to having to scale everything down.

I'm surprised Young Link came out of Melee relatively normal, but I guess human characters might scale better down to child size

Baby Bowser likely would have killed Bowser Jr's chances. They look exactly the same in recent games.

Baby Bowser in 2001, though, really wouldn't look too different than Bowser scaled down
BabyBowserYoshi%27sStory.png
the timeline i see is something akin to....

Melee - Baby Bowser looking very much like his Yoshi Story appearence (mistake), with really weird proportions and stiff animations mostly 1:1 with bowser.
Brawl - BB is left on the wayside. Probably was considered to be brought back at one point like most Melee clones, but just didn't make the cut. Maybe we even learn he'd have been replaced (possibly in line with Pichu replaced by Plusle & Minun?) by Bowser Jr since the ywere so similar at this juncture.
Smash 4 - I think Bowser Jr would come in for real here, I bet the clown car he started using would've appealed to Sakurai enough to be roughly similar and still not bother bringing Baby Bowser back. Certainly not as a clone of Bowser Jr since they'd be so different.
Ultiamte - Baby Bowser is BACK, baby and he has had a full visual overhaul to bring him in line with Yoshi's Island, we probably would have gotten Baby Bowser's battle theme
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
I'm mad about Dark Samus too. I predict Metroid fans will in the future have movements to retool her just like Ganondorf fans do.
Not if Dark Samus never shows up in another Metroid game. All signs point to her time being over, whereas post-Melee Dorf got in WW and TP and was able to show a whole new generation of players that he doesn't play like Falcon.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
the timeline i see is something akin to....

Melee - Baby Bowser looking very much like his Yoshi Story appearence (mistake), with really weird proportions and stiff animations mostly 1:1 with bowser.
Brawl - BB is left on the wayside. Probably was considered to be brought back at one point like most Melee clones, but just didn't make the cut. Maybe we even learn he'd have been replaced (possibly in line with Pichu replaced by Plusle & Minun?) by Bowser Jr since the ywere so similar at this juncture.
Smash 4 - I think Bowser Jr would come in for real here, I bet the clown car he started using would've appealed to Sakurai enough to be roughly similar and still not bother bringing Baby Bowser back. Certainly not as a clone of Bowser Jr since they'd be so different.
Ultiamte - Baby Bowser is BACK, baby and he has had a full visual overhaul to bring him in line with Yoshi's Island, we probably would have gotten Baby Bowser's battle theme
I wonder if Ultimate Baby Bowser would be made of wool or crafted just to make him visually different from Bowser Jr

Modern Baby Bowser is just Bowser Jr without a bandanna.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,290
Houston, TX
Speculation time: Switch launched March 2017, so under a typical 5 year lifespan it would be March 2022 when we see new hardware. Since it has been so successful though I think we don't see a successor until the calendar year between March 2023 and March 2024.

Sakurai will get the call from Nintendo for a new Smash roughly 1 year before said successor launches. So 2022 to 2023 sometime is my guess. That's the sweet spot where he will look at the latest games.

This new IP was first teased in 2017. So either a 2020 or 2021 launch makes sense. Then pad that with a typical year of DLC support to 2021 or 2022. Monolithsoft is also assisting Nintendo on the Zelda series, so I assume part of their staff is on BotW2.

My current guess is that the new IP stands the best chance. Of course Smash could come later next gen, among other things. I think Xenoblade 3 isn't until the next console, so I have doubts it hits the timing right.
March 2023 sounds about closer to what I expect, but you have a point. If everything goes the way you predicted, Rex may still be the most recent Xenoblade protagonist if MonolithSoft is squarely focused on their new IP & BotW2.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
I wonder if Ultimate Baby Bowser would be made of wool or crafted just to make him visually different from Bowser Jr

Modern Baby Bowser is just Bowser Jr without a bandanna.
I was thinking they'd specifically go for something based on his original sprite
SnesBabyBowser.PNG


While the artwork of the time is still very Bowser Jr (and somethign they would lean into moving forward), the proportions here are quite different, especially if they kept to the aesthetic.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,893
I've been too busy lately but I gotta let it out gotta let it out.

Dante
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
796px-YCW_Kamek_Baby_Bowser.png


I know it makes sense for Baby Bowser to look like Bowser Jr but......at least keep the 'Broom" styled ponytail or the black eyes or something. Anything.
Yoshi has a hard enough time with an identity at least let bowser look distinct



800px-Trophy215.png

see like this horrifying trophy I forgot was in Melee.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
Bowser Jr and Kamek on a broom as 1 character would make a pretty cool character concept, now that I see them like that
Give them the gimmick of bowser jr can get knocked off the broom and he pops into a bubble and starts crying

It would make no sense for them to have that, especially since WW & CW dont even have that gimmick, but sakurai works in mysterious ways
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
Imagine an odd timeline where Ocarina of Time Impa gets added as a Sheik clone in Melee, but with a new down special

That would be weird and I wonder how many people would consider Impa the default because she'd be on the CSS, versus Sheik, who was hidden behind Zelda.
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,273
Please do not suggest Dixie Kong can be unique. Any non clone or echo based suggestions will be harshly punished.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Imagine an odd timeline where Ocarina of Time Impa gets added as a Sheik clone in Melee, but with a new down special

That would be weird and I wonder how many people would consider Impa the default because she'd be on the CSS, versus Sheik, who was hidden behind Zelda.
Impa has made more appearances than Sheik, so people thinking she was the base would make sense.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
With K. Rool being supposedly on friendlier terms with DK, Dixie is clearly going to be the next secret DKC antagonist and thus a Smash stage boss.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I want the next Donkey Kong Country game to start where the Banjo Kazooie trailer ended. The boulder gets removed and out of it ascends K. Rool, decomposed from years underground with only his bones left for show. He then recruits the remnants of the Kremlins and starts attacking with a horde of undead reptiles.

You could call it Donkey Kong Country The Walking Krems
 
Mar 9, 2018
3,766
Keep in mind that we will most likely be able to purchase a Dixie Kong beret with a ponytail attached when DK World opens at Universal Studios. Fans and haters alike can shake each other's ponytail to welcome Dixie in Smash.
 

VPplaya

Member
Nov 20, 2018
1,964
Solaire and the Knight from hollow knight would be my two final picks.

It is selfish, but I hope they announce a second fighter pack that adds all ninty characters
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
Altering a physical move's animation to the point that it's utilizing a completely different 'limb' as it were is completely beyond the scope of cloned attacks we've seen in Smash. It's twisting design guidelines into a pretzel in order to justify a character being a clone, which is just backwards from how they're actually created. If the designers are conceptualizing a Dixie moveset and come up with moves that require her to use her hair they're not going to shove that square peg into a round hole and make it a variant of an existing kick attack, that would instead be justification for making her more unique.

And every cut veteran was a clone or derivative--save one, Mewtwo. We have no idea what Dixie was planned to play like.

I don't think it's that complicated. None of Diddy's attacks use his tail. Not a single one. His tail isn't even a hurtbox. Some idles have the tail animated but they can disable it in the physics data. It's not like Isabelle where the entire body has changed and it's not really feasible to share motions. The hair can be controlled by physics and hand animated for one or two attacks (dash, up B) The majority of motions can be shared.
 

wildvine47

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,094
I want the next Donkey Kong Country game to start where the Banjo Kazooie trailer ended. The boulder gets removed and out of it ascends K. Rool, decomposed from years underground with only his bones left for show. He then recruits the remnants of the Kremlins and starts attacking with a horde of undead reptiles.

You could call it Donkey Kong Country The Walking Krems
You joke but K. Rool becoming a ne-krem-mancer would totally be in character for him as his next persona.

God I hope whoever inevitably brings him back to the DK franchise keeps that gimmick going.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
You joke but K. Rool becoming a ne-krem-master would totally be a in character for him as his next persona.

God I hope whoever inevitably brings him back to the DK franchise keeps that gimmick going.
My original concept was that Gruntilda is the one that brings him back to life and it's actually a cross-over with Banjo Kazooie, but I'm gonna leave that kind of fanwankery to DK Vine.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
With K. Rool being supposedly on friendlier terms with DK, Dixie is clearly going to be the next secret DKC antagonist and thus a Smash stage boss.
She'd have an attack where her hair disassembles and flies across the stage in chunks while she gradually disappears, then reappears on the opposite side of the stage

Gotta save dev time where it counts
 
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