Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 4 | Holding Out For A Hero

Which fighting franchise would you like to see a newcomer from in Super Smash Bros?

  • Tekken

    Votes: 97 20.6%
  • Soul Calibur

    Votes: 78 16.5%
  • King of Fighters (or) Fatal Fury

    Votes: 55 11.7%
  • Blazblue

    Votes: 18 3.8%
  • Guilty Gear

    Votes: 43 9.1%
  • Mortal Kombat

    Votes: 144 30.5%
  • Dead or Alive

    Votes: 37 7.8%

  • Total voters
    472
  • Poll closed .

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,579
Halo 3 had a nice shout-out to Hayabusa.

 

Smash Kirby

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,038
Halo 3 had a nice shout-out to Hayabusa.

From what I understood that was due to both studios being fans of each other. Along with Nicole being in Dead or Alive on the Xbox.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,020
That doesn't change the fact that the flimsy reasoning for Waluigi being unlikely is several times worse with Geno.
Regardless of how anyone slices it Waluigi is a prominent Mario supporting character which means he has roughly 10x the following of the next biggest series in Smash.

I figure the only thing really preventing him is that Sakurai might just not like him.
 

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
13,174
Sydney, Australia
Don't really like talking about the next game as it's very unlikely keep a similar like Ultimate's. Ultimate seems like Geno's best chance if the next game becomes a reboot.
I see it two ways:

If the next Smash iterates on Ultimate (and keeps everyone here) both have a good shot.

If the next Smash is a reboot; neither have a good chance. If they couldn't get in when the roster broke 80, they have no hope if the roster shrinks.

I just don’t see Waluigi getting in before Toad.
I always forget about Toad. (Captain) Toad with Toadette as an Echo seem like a possible pick.
 

Majunior

Member
Jun 20, 2019
105
Regardless of how anyone slices it Waluigi is a prominent Mario supporting character which means he has roughly 10x the following of the next biggest series in Smash.

I figure the only thing really preventing him is that Sakurai might just not like him.
I personally don't think Sakurai flat out dislikes any character. I honestly think both Sakurai and Nintendo just underestimated how many Waluigi supporters there are.
 

Majunior

Member
Jun 20, 2019
105
I see it two ways:

If the next Smash iterates on Ultimate (and keeps everyone here) both have a good shot.

If the next Smash is a reboot; neither have a good chance. If they couldn't get in when the roster broke 80, they have less of a chance if the roster shrinks.


I always forget about Toad. (Captain) Toad with Toadette as an Echo seem like a possible pick.
Even if it doesn't keep everyone, he still has an excellent shot. Waluigi is just way too easy to put in considering how far it would go with satisfying fans.
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
485
If Ninja Gaiden were placed side-by-side with other franchises, would he still be comparable to more popular entries? He's definitely the clear frontrunner as a Koei-Temco rep and has the legacy/sales to back him up, but he's had a rough couple of years and was never pushed heavily by any fanbase.
Initially I kind of expected his chances to be elevated when it was announced Nintendo had full freedom in deciding, but Joker/Banjo obviously throws a wrench into that.

Geno/Waluigi are still pretty much the weirdest ones since...they're literally fuelled by meme power (popularity?)
only? However, I still think that waluigi could be an eventuality given his connection to the Mario/Wario universe compared to Geno cause...you can get so many other IPs from SQ, why go through all that trouble?

I see it two ways:

If the next Smash iterates on Ultimate (and keeps everyone here) both have a good shot.

If the next Smash is a reboot; neither have a good chance. If they couldn't get in when the roster broke 80, they have less of a chance if the roster shrinks.
I think you summed it up perfectly.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,285
If Ninja Gaiden were placed side-by-side with other franchises, would he still be comparable to more popular entries? He's definitely the clear frontrunner as a Koei-Temco rep and has the legacy/sales to back him up, but he's had a rough couple of years and was never pushed heavily by any fanbase.
Initially I kind of expected his chances to be elevated when it was announced Nintendo had full freedom in deciding, but Joker/Banjo obviously throws a wrench into that.
Remind me how Simon’s doing?

Or Mega Man circa Smash 4?
 

Oscarzx n

Member
May 24, 2018
435
Santiago, Chile
Hayabusa feels like the quintessential Tecmo character to me -- he's the main character of the NES Ninja Gaiden trilogy and the modern reboot trilogy, he's a major character in the Dead or Alive series, he's a guest in a bunch of other Koei Tecmo games, and his ancestor Jin Hayabusa is even a boss in Nioh. I actually think he's appeared in more games than any other Koei Tecmo character.
Oh sure, not saying the opposite, he would be awesome and I'm sure if Sakurai Made the DLC choices he would have been selected, but he didnt so I'm not sure if Nintendo or even KT care about him that much considering his lack of relevance in recent years, but we'll see, after all I don't work at Nintendo and I don't know how the characters were selected, and there is no clear pattern between the DLC we have had so far.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,950
Dragonborn with male and female alternates, and a stage set in skyrim that brings you from the open fields infront of white run up to the throat of the world could be pretty cool. But i think there are too many sword fighters already. So if bethesda was to get any rep id like to be doomslayer. Its not like guns are a no no, i mean bayonetta used actual ass pistols. His a attacks couldn be melee while his b attacks are different guns, a shot gun, rocket launcher, machine gun with micro missiles, and a chaingun. While his final smash is the bfg
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,579
Oh sure, not saying the opposite, he would be awesome and I'm sure if Sakurai Made the DLC choices he would have been selected, but he didnt so I'm not sure if Nintendo or even KT care about him that much considering his lack of relevance in recent years, but we'll see, after all I don't work at Nintendo and I don't know how the characters were selected, and there is no clear pattern between the DLC we have had so far.
I definitely think KT still cares. You don't put in a very clear Hayabusa reference into Nioh if you don't care.
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,659
Well, personally I wouldn’t compared the 2.

Castlevania and Megaman were far more “memorable” (lack of a better word) to the Nintendo audience and what those smash fan would request.

Megaman especially. He was the Major Announcement at E3 for Smash. Like Ridley and Banjo was.
Yeah, Mega Man was pretty popular request during Brawl speculation so it made a lot of sense for Mega Man to be in Smash 4. I remember those old days that a moderator actually banned Mega Man discussion in Brawl thread because of few reasons.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
I don't carry much belief Geno will or won't be in. I'm not even that interested in playing as him either. I just think he would be an excellent choice for the final fighter pack because it brings Ultimate full circle.

This was the game for the dedicated fans more than any other Smash. A gigantic ballot was held, then they decided to bring back every single fighter ever and include long time dream requests like K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo who were all "impossible" at one point or another. Ending it again on an impossible character that is for primarily the fans would be a big "feel good" story to end it on. Pair some mainstream 3rd party character with it as fighter pack 4, and I think the combination of them would appeal to a lot of different people like we saw with Hero and Banjo.

(There are characters other than Geno who I think could do a similar thing but they're in with the assist trophies.)
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
4,577
Dragonborn with male and female alternates, and a stage set in skyrim that brings you from the open fields infront of white run up to the throat of the world could be pretty cool. But i think there are too many sword fighters already. So if bethesda was to get any rep id like to be doomslayer. Its not like guns are a no no, i mean bayonetta used actual ass pistols. His a attacks couldn be melee while his b attacks are different guns, a shot gun, rocket launcher, machine gun with micro missiles, and a chaingun. While his final smash is the bfg
Dovahkiin is still a dark horse pick for me. I'd love to see it happen.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
6,631
I think Hayabusa is at least in a similar threshold of general recognizability as Joker. The name "Ninja Gaiden" definitely means something to general gamers. He might not have any recent games, or games as big as Persona 5, but I think he's had a consistent enough presence between Ninja Gaiden and Dead Or Alive that he is marketable as DLC in Nintendo's eyes.

I'm inclined to agree with Ryce though that his biggest plus is Koei-Tecmo being so close to Nintendo this generation.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
I hope no one that thinks Waluigi doesn't have a decent chance for Smash 6 is making a case for Geno.
Oh for sure I think Waluigi has a much better chance than Geno for the next Smash. I think Geno's chances of ever being in Smash are pretty bad if he doesn't make it into Ultimate.

In the months leading up to E3, my stance on Banjo was that it felt like Ultimate was his do or die time, simply because Ultimate acknowledges long-term fan requests more than any other and Banjo-Kazooie as a series is getting very old now. My thoughts are similar there for Geno, where it truly feels like with Ultimate adding more 3rd party characters than ever in the series, this is their chance to get him if they ever want to.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,197
Yeah, I think Ultimate marks the end of the road for most of the Brawl era character requests.

Like if the ballot couldn't bump someone like Isaac to playable status, then what chance does he have going forward?
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,141
Ultimate added only like six new (non-echo) characters at launch and only like a couple were due to the ballot. There's no reason to think that the ballot won't be looked at again in the future. Never say never.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
6,631
It's hard to feel like Geno would get considered again in another Smash 5-7 years from now when the entire Nintendo landscape as well as character selection process could be very different. We don't even know if he was considered this time.

I'd be saying the same thing about Banjo-Kazooie if they didn't make it in. At least K. Rool and Isaac always had the chance for a revival (albeit a much smaller chance in Isaac's case) as first party characters.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,563
Actually 3 from the ballot, and 2...maybe 3 echoes if counting daisy.
And the concept of Everyone is Here is almost certainly from the ballot as well

Sakurai's not mentioned the ballot at all in reference to the DLC, so not to say any were belated ballot picks, but I do wonder if the ballot might've had some further reach into DLC. Especially since discussions had to be going on for a while during development, I could potentially see them doing so.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
6,631
Sakurai's not mentioned the ballot at all in reference to the DLC
He did for Banjo-Kazooie.


This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too.
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
485
I think Hayabusa is at least in a similar threshold of general recognizability as Joker. The name "Ninja Gaiden" definitely means something to general gamers. He might not have any recent games, or games as big as Persona 5, but I think he's had a consistent enough presence between Ninja Gaiden and Dead Or Alive that he is marketable as DLC in Nintendo's eyes.

I'm inclined to agree with Ryce though that his biggest plus is Koei-Tecmo being so close to Nintendo this generation.
The thing is - he doesn't have the same lasting presence compared to other IPs (RE/Tekken/MH/DS) nor the strong mainstream entry status (Bayo/Persona/Nier). The games haven't really been remembered as a super iconic NES game either - people don't place him in the same regard as Megaman/Castlevania. Tbh, the fact that people quickly moved on from him (unlike DOOM for some reason) after the fake leak just indicates that he's not a popular request as of now, which makes me think that he's fairly unlikely to make it for dlc.

I also feel that KT's relationship is largely overstated - game companies prioritize money rather than some cameo in smash. And Nintendo is bound to have good relationships with multiple game companies given their status.


Oh for sure I think Waluigi has a much better chance than Geno for the next Smash. I think Geno's chances of ever being in Smash are pretty bad if he doesn't make it into Ultimate.

In the months leading up to E3, my stance on Banjo was that it felt like Ultimate was his do or die time, simply because Ultimate acknowledges long-term fan requests more than any other and Banjo-Kazooie as a series is getting very old now. My thoughts are similar there for Geno, where it truly feels like with Ultimate adding more 3rd party characters than ever in the series, this is their chance to get him if they ever want to.
The biggest issue is probably why wouldn't you get other IPs (KH, Nier) from SQ which are objectively bigger and iconic than Geno? It's always that weird gap that can't easily be explained away.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
6,631
The thing is - he doesn't have the same lasting presence compared to other IPs (RE/Tekken/MH/DS) nor the strong mainstream entry status (Bayo/Persona/Nier). The games haven't really been remembered as a super iconic NES game either - people don't place him in the same regard as Megaman/Castlevania. Tbh, the fact that people quickly moved on from him (unlike DOOM for some reason) after the fake leak just indicates that he's not a popular request as of now, which makes me think that he's fairly unlikely to make it for dlc.

I also feel that KT's relationship is largely overstated - game companies prioritize money rather than some cameo in smash. And Nintendo is bound to have good relationships with multiple game companies given their status.
Except a cameo in Smash makes both companies money.

Also, not being a popular request is not really a thing to hold against him looking at characters like Joker.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,647
It's hard to feel like Geno would get considered again in another Smash 5-7 years from now when the entire Nintendo landscape as well as character selection process could be very different. We don't even know if he was considered this time.

I'd be saying the same thing about Banjo-Kazooie if they didn't make it in. At least K. Rool and Isaac always had the chance for a revival (albeit a much smaller chance in Isaac's case) as first party characters.
For me it's the opposite. I think geno has no chance for the last two dlc, but there is at least the miniscule chance of a smrpg remake before smash 6.
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,579
The thing is - he doesn't have the same lasting presence compared to other IPs (RE/Tekken/MH/DS) nor the strong mainstream entry status (Bayo/Persona/Nier). The games haven't really been remembered as a super iconic NES game either - people don't place him in the same regard as Megaman/Castlevania. Tbh, the fact that people quickly moved on from him (unlike DOOM for some reason) after the fake leak just indicates that he's not a popular request as of now, which makes me think that he's fairly unlikely to make it for dlc.

I also feel that KT's relationship is largely overstated - game companies prioritize money rather than some cameo in smash. And Nintendo is bound to have good relationships with multiple game companies given their status.
Nintendo certainly treats the first Ninja Gaiden game as one of the iconic and defining titles of the NES. They put it on every platform they could. This includes the NES Classic (now discontinued), the VC (still available on 3DS and Wii U), and NES Online on Switch.