Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 4 | Holding Out For A Hero

Which month do you predict the next Nintendo Direct to happen? (Direct as The General Direct)

  • August

    Votes: 4 1.4%
  • September

    Votes: 219 76.8%
  • October

    Votes: 51 17.9%
  • November

    Votes: 11 3.9%

  • Total voters
    285
  • Poll closed .

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,584
honestly the two worst possible remaining characters would be heihachi and Ryu from ninja Gaiden. luckily heihachi was basically deconfirmed with the death of the costume theory.
 

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
13,445
Sydney, Australia
And when you factor in that Bamco this year only cares about The [email protected]'s 15th anniversary while ignoring both Tekken's and Tales' 25th anniversaries, the writing is on the wall for Heihachi.

Knocked out by a 17 year old girl.
Is it actually the 15th anniversary? Wikipedia tells me that the first Idolmaster game released in 2005.

Now Katamari, on the other hand, is actually celebrating it's 15th this year. In fact, Katamari Damacy released in September 2004 (in North America); perfect timing for a Fall Direct Smash reveal.
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,722
Is it actually the 15th anniversary? Wikipedia tells me that the first Idolmaster game released in 2005.

Now Katamari, on the other hand, is actually celebrating it's 15th this year. In fact, Katamari Damacy released in September 2004 (in North America); perfect timing for a Fall Direct Smash reveal.
The actual 15th anniversary is next year, but they've already started the celebrations a year early.

 

jph139

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,045
Massachusetts
I was never hot for Hayabusa but I've come around to being actively in favor of his inclusion recently. I don't think it would be too difficult to bring him in, since KT seems like a company that's happy to play ball with Nintendo.

He's kind of an "also-ran" compared to Mega Man and the Belmonts, but between his retro appeal and his reboot series and his continued DoA appearances he feels like he has the pedigree.
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,871
I never did say we shouldn't discuss it? It's perfectly fine to talk about things that you want, but it's important to take into consideration points that can be raised for and against your claims. I know cause I did that with Undertale but came to the realization that my evidence didn't really stand up to what I was claiming.
Nobody is acting like Hayabusa is guaranteed. Particularly me, who is probably the biggest Ninja Gaiden stan in this thread.
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,871
honestly the two worst possible remaining characters would be heihachi and Ryu from ninja Gaiden. luckily heihachi was basically deconfirmed with the death of the costume theory.
I don't know why you hate Hayabusa so much.

But, IMO, the worst possible remaining choices are Resident Evil and Tekken, because they indicate that only game sales actually matter for getting a character into Smash.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,241
I don't know why you hate Hayabusa so much.

But, IMO, the worst possible remaining choices are Resident Evil and Tekken, because they indicate that only game sales actually matter for getting a character into Smash.
I mean those are also two hugely popular and influential series with millions of fans.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,816
I don't know why you hate Hayabusa so much.

But, IMO, the worst possible remaining choices are Resident Evil and Tekken, because they indicate that only game sales actually matter for getting a character into Smash.
Are you prepared to see people start talking up GTA and Call of Duty for future Smash titles?
Wait, so would you prefer, I dunno, Price and Bellic in this Fighter Pass over Jill and Heihachi, or not?
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,871
Banjo and Kazooie say Guh-huh
What third party characters left have a somewhat similar level of support to Banjo? Sora and Crash? We know Sora isn't happening (at least not now).

There's a difference between a popular series and a series whose only merit is its popularity.
I honestly think the latter is the only reason we're talking about RE/Tekken. (And I actually like those games.)

Wait, so would you prefer, I dunno, Price and Bellic in this Fighter Pass over Jill and Heihachi, or not?
This feels like a "pick your poison" type situation, lol.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,004
Houston, TX
Doom, Elder Scrolls, some other western series, an indie game

I just think going with "who is the biggest Japanese series not in smash = getting in Smash as DLC" isn't really a good way to approach it.
Honestly, I feel like Undertale is the only indie franchise with a realistic shot at Smash after Shovel Knight of all characters got shot down.

Also, Doom Slayer has been discussed a lot. But as mentioned before, I can't really bring myself to root for him, even if his inclusion would be pretty cool.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,430
Rochester, New York
Honestly, I feel like Undertale is the only indie franchise with a realistic shot at Smash after Shovel Knight of all characters got shot down.

Also, Doom Slayer has been discussed a lot.
Indie reps for Smash always focus on the biggest and most well known

While I think that helps indie series, I also look at something like Crypt of the Necrodancer and how Nintendo loved that game so much they got them to make a Zelda spin off and I wonder if some random indie will get loved by the right people at Nintendo and suddenly they're the one in Smash instead of Undertale or Shantae or Shovel Knight
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,981
I think people are too focused on Resident Evil, Tekken and Ninja Gaiden and the last 2 fighters will be weird series nobody really saw coming, like Persona.
I’m still thinking we’ll getting a first Party Rep.

And no, I don’t mean Paper Mario or Byleth.

Think I said it in my predictions long ago that I see a Zelda Rep happening.
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,871
Doom, Elder Scrolls, some other western series, an indie game

I just think going with "who is the biggest Japanese series not in smash = getting in Smash as DLC" isn't really a good way to approach it.
People have been quick to point out that Ninja Gaiden is not one of the "biggest Japanese series". It, as a series, is more comparable to something like Persona in size. It just has legacy, and the company that owns it being particularly close to Nintendo in the last few years, going for it.

(Would be badass, though, IMO.)
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,733
Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie felt more obvious to me as good fits since they were series that debuted and became iconic on Nintendo platforms. That and they were aesthetically really strong fits among Nintendo's characters.

Tekken meanwhile has a Wii U port of Tag Tournament 2 as its big Nintendo cred. It makes sense to me why people aren't exactly enthused about that franchise and even Soul Calibur is more fondly remembered by the Nintendo crowd. Resident Evil makes a bit more sense at least due to the exclusive games (at the time) it had on the Gamecube, essentially being the biggest 3rd party series there other than Sonic the Hedgehog. That said I think it is still a Playstation franchise in the hearts of most.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,004
Houston, TX
I’m still thinking we’ll getting a first Party Rep.

And no, I don’t mean Paper Mario or Byleth.

Think I said it in my predictions long ago that I see a Zelda Rep happening.
Most of the major viable options (Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, etc.) are already Assist Trophies. Plus there isn't a ton of BotW music left to add for one of the Champions.

The only ones left that come to mind are Impa & Tingle.


Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie felt more obvious to me as good fits since they were series that debuted and became iconic on Nintendo platforms. That and they were aesthetically really strong fits among Nintendo's characters.

Tekken meanwhile has a Wii U port of Tag Tournament 2 as its big Nintendo cred. It makes sense to me why people aren't exactly enthused about that franchise and even Soul Calibur is more fondly remembered by the Nintendo crowd. Resident Evil makes a bit more sense at least due to the exclusive games (at the time) it had on the Gamecube, essentially being the biggest 3rd party series there other than Sonic the Hedgehog. That said I think it is still a Playstation franchise in the hearts of most.
*points at Persona*
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,430
Rochester, New York
I selfishly don't want a RE rep because the music is just boring and not memorable and I have a hard time thinking of how they'll market all these "amazing" rips of atmospheric horror tunes that don't fit Smash Bros.
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,722
The funny thing is, Tekken technically has sold more than Pac-Man, at least, according to Wikipedia


Pac-Man: 43.243 million
Tekken: 47 million
Pac-Man's fame comes from the arcade so sales are really not going to be a good measurement for him.

Pac-Man is one of the biggest icons in gaming. Very few can match this icongraphy in terms of recognisability:



Wikipedia's list of highest grossing videogames is probably a better measurement really, where Pac-Man is listed in fifth place. Heck, Space Invaders is just under it in sixth place and that doesn't even appear on that highest sellers list! And I'd suspect anyone trying to argue Space Invaders isn't a big name in gaming would be laughed out of this thread.

But people don't like to link to that list for the obvious reason. The [email protected] is listed higher than Tekken... actually Tekken isn't even on it.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,004
Houston, TX
Indie reps for Smash always focus on the biggest and most well known

While I think that helps indie series, I also look at something like Crypt of the Necrodancer and how Nintendo loved that game so much they got them to make a Zelda spin off and I wonder if some random indie will get loved by the right people at Nintendo and suddenly they're the one in Smash instead of Undertale or Shantae or Shovel Knight
Because for a good chunk of them, indie games are more niche than even Persona. The ones often talked about, such as Undertale, are the ones that were able to carve out their own path into more mainstream awareness (or at least awareness on the level of something like Persona, which is an accomplishment in of itself).
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,291
Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie felt more obvious to me as good fits since they were series that debuted and became iconic on Nintendo platforms. That and they were aesthetically really strong fits among Nintendo's characters.

Tekken meanwhile has a Wii U port of Tag Tournament 2 as its big Nintendo cred. It makes sense to me why people aren't exactly enthused about that franchise and even Soul Calibur is more fondly remembered by the Nintendo crowd. Resident Evil makes a bit more sense at least due to the exclusive games (at the time) it had on the Gamecube, essentially being the biggest 3rd party series there other than Sonic the Hedgehog. That said I think it is still a Playstation franchise in the hearts of most.
Tekken was also on 3DS and GBA as well, for what it's worth.



 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,430
Rochester, New York
Because for a good chunk of them, indie games are more niche than even Persona. The ones often talked about, such as Undertale, are the ones that were able to carve out their own path into more mainstream awareness (or at least awareness on the level of something like Persona, which is an accomplishment in of itself).
Too focused on the biggest and most well known.

I actually think Persona and Bayonetta are lucky to get into Smash and had unique circumstances that allowed them to get in without really being giant legendary series.

I think we go back now and retcon Persona as a "big popular series" but only because we have hindsight that Joker got into Smash. Persona is still the smallest third party in Smash (besides Bayonetta). I don't think Sakurai has ever mentioned Persona's popularity as the reason Joker is in. Instead it just seems like Sakurai really liked Persona 5, so much so he based the aesthetic of Ultimate on Persona 5. And adding Joker was probably a personal choice for Sakurai as a way to show appreciation for the design of that game.

Joker and Bayonetta (and to a lesser extent Banjo) are smaller third party series that had the right circumstances at the right time to get in, and I think there are other series out there that aren't huge, but might catch the right eyes at Nintendo to get in or have the right circumstances at the right time to make it.