• We are delighted to introduce GiftBot 2.0, the next generation of our popular gifting feature. To celebrate, we'll be giving away some incredible prizes over the coming weeks in one big Giveaway Extravaganza!

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 5 | The Bear Necessities

Are we going to see Nintendo character getting in Smash Bros via DLC?

  • Yes!!!

    Votes: 90 60.0%
  • No...

    Votes: 60 40.0%

  • Total voters
    150

Hailinel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,080
Why would Nintendo want an SNK character, is the thing. And nobody better say "there's a bunch of NeoGeo ports" because come on, no one believes that.

If they respect the arcade legacy of SNK, which as far as I'm concerned is the reason Terry's in, then that means good things. I'll hammer this point as much as I have to: whoever's making the choices is doing well so far.
Why wouldn't Nintendo want an SNK character? They've had a long history on Nintendo platforms and are historically important to the arcade scene of the 80s and 90s especially.

This doesn't hurt Nintendo or Smash at all.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,561
Rochester, New York
Sakurai has been the director of this series for over 20 years, and has been trusted every time to make the roster selection on his own, but now suddenly he's lost that freedom?

I just have a hard time buying it, and I'm inclined to believe this is like Bayonetta "winning" the ballot, even though she probably didn't, but she was the most "realizable." Nintendo "picking" the roster may be as simple as Sakurai sending his requests to them and them giving the okay. We don't really know, and it's hard to take "Nintendo picked them" at face value given the series' history with picks and well... who was actually picked. Every pick is basically who Sakurai would have picked on his own. The first FP DLC character was from one of his favorite games...
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
and if we count the mii full sets (like ashley, kk slider, protoman and sans) ?
I don’t think I would counts that but I would counts theee Heroes, 7 Koopalings and Alph.

Yeah, I'm kinda feeling like I need a break from this thread. I love y'all but I dunno if I can do another two months of this (when Terry's video goes up). Talking about video games should be fun but Smash speculation often feels like a debate class.

At the very least I might sneak in here during work or something. It's been slow.
Just take it. I was binging through Dragon Quest franchises and I barely got involved with this thread awhile ago it was a nice break because people were stuck in Loop during those period. I think this speculation is better because people finally broke out of loop.

However it does feel like some people here only cares about characters discussion only is kinda boring.

I tried to discuss about developments from few articles and only very people actually cares. Also I presented some long posts and people doesn’t respond so I assume it’s because people doesn’t want to read heavy texts.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,296
Why would Nintendo want an SNK character, is the thing. And nobody better say "there's a bunch of NeoGeo ports" because come on, no one believes that.
Why wouldn't that be a reason? Because it goes against the narrative? Couple their massive output of games alongside SNK Heroines mainly being Switch focused, the producers wanting to put KOF on Switch, and SamSho being on Switch, there's enough of a presence to justify wanting to include SNK on the roster.

Dragon Quest was in large part added because Nintendo wanted the series to get more awareness. This is also happening with SNK, who recently built themselves back from irrelevancy and managed to get a strong foothold on the Switch.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,641
Why wouldn't Nintendo want an SNK character? They've had a long history on Nintendo platforms and are historically important to the arcade scene of the 80s and 90s especially.

This doesn't hurt Nintendo or Smash at all.
The real point I've been trying to push this whole time is that whatever shadow cabinet is making the choices has had knock out after knock out. Joker from P5, Dragon Quest heroes, Banjo-Kazooie, and now a cult favourite fighter gets its due because of what it did for the genre back in the day. It doesn't matter who's making the choice because whoever it is, they're doing a bang up job.

Why wouldn't that be a reason? Because it goes against the narrative? Couple their massive output of games alongside SNK Heroines mainly being Switch focused, the producers wanting to put KOF on Switch, and SamSho being on Switch, there's enough of a presence to justify it.

Dragon Quest was in large part added because Nintendo wanted the series to get more awareness. This is also happening with SNK, who recently built themselves back from irrelevancy and managed to get a strong foothold on the Switch.
Surely you recognize the difference between Dragon Quest and Fatal Fury. Nintendo's been trying for literal decades to turn DQ into a smash hit in the West.

SNK published some games and ports on Switch, like most every other developer out there.
 

V_ac

Avenger
Jul 2, 2018
1,854
Whoever involved with picking the characters at Nintendo could also just be a fan of a character and want them in Smash. Like how Miyamoto wanted Pac-Man in Brawl.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,654
Nintendo put an SNK character in Smash as an apology for what they did to the Game Boy Color version of Crystalis
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,296
The real point I've been trying to push this whole time is that whatever shadow cabinet is making the choices has had knock out after knock out. Joker from P5, Dragon Quest heroes, Banjo-Kazooie, and now a cult favourite fighter gets its due because of what it did for the genre back in the day. It doesn't matter who's making the choice because whoever it is, they're doing a bang up job.
So then the assumption falls back to thinking that Nintendo couldn't possibly be the one to make these great choices, it's just all Sakurai. Right.
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
Whoever involved with picking the characters at Nintendo could also just be a fan of a character and want them in Smash. Like how Miyamoto wanted Pac-Man in Brawl.
That would be hilarious to visual that. I remember the fact our current president actually plays games in the past and had bunch of favorite characters. Imagine him asking Sakurai to do this for him.
 

Lumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,738
Yeah, I'm kinda feeling like I need a break from this thread. I love y'all but I dunno if I can do another two months of this (when Terry's video goes up). Talking about video games should be fun but Smash speculation often feels like a debate class.

At the very least I might sneak in here during work or something. It's been slow.
I feel the same way, honestly, and I feel bad for contributing to it. I need to browse Era less altogether.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,641
So then the assumption falls back to thinking that Nintendo couldn't possibly be the one to make these great choices, it's just all Sakurai. Right.
Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm saying even if Sakurai were as uninvolved as he says, then Nintendo is doing as good a job as he could.

Plus it's a lot more romantic to think of a visionary director being given the keys to the biggest crossover in all of video games.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
8,735
Just take it. I was binging through Dragon Quest franchises and I barely got involved with this thread awhile ago it was a nice break because people were stuck in Loop during those period. I think this speculation is better because people finally broke out of loop.
Yeah, I've been feeling like I would rather use what free time I have to work on my backlog. I'll probably pop in now and then but I think just being here less regularly would be better for me in the long run.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,641
Is it really romantic when that's how Smash rosters have worked since Smash 64?
Which yes, is weird because why change a winning formula with a guy who already has a proven track record.

I'm just saying it's all moot at this point. Because I can still concoct a reason to believe that the guy who picked Banjo, Joker and Terry probably wouldn't turn down Geno either :V
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
4,999
I’m still baffled by the fact that there’s not even a single Doshin spirit when he had Melee trophies and was just fine, but now we get stuff like Prince Saruno and Numkid as spirits and Doshin’s nowhere in sight. Are there rights issues with Doshin that have come up since Melee?
I have a small theory about this. Nintendo published and developed Doshin along with Param, which was Iida Katzutoshi's (of Artdink's Tail of the Sun and Aquanaut's Holiday fame, thank you Ray Barnholt) I guess...sorta studio, that was part of Marigul, a company Nintendo co-owned with Recruit to facilitate N64 development due to the lack of third parties.

Marigul, and by extension Param, went defunt in 2003, interestingly post-Melee, and was liquidated. It's POSSIBLE that despite being publisher and co-developer on Doshin, Marigul, which was majority owned by Recruit, owned Doshin in some form and it got sold off in 2003, but if that's the case, I question who tf would buy the Doshin property?

Maybe. Just maybe...IT WAS ME!
 

Hailinel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,080
Which yes, is weird because why change a winning formula with a guy who already has a proven track record.

I'm just saying it's all moot at this point. Because I can still concoct a reason to believe that the guy who picked Banjo, Joker and Terry probably wouldn't turn down Geno either :V
Sakurai didn't work with third-party characters until Brawl. And Sega was really weird with Sonic until the eleventh hour of development then.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,296
Changing the "winning formula" makes a bit more sense and falls in line with what Furukawa talked about in relation to Smash, which Heath quoted a while back.

Smash is big now, it's not just a first party celebration but also a celebration of video games. People get introduced to new series and companies through their exposure in Smash, and they get a big boost in profile because of it. Naturally, that means Nintendo likely has more of an idea on what they want included specifically in the laundry list of potential candidates, either to boost the profile of a franchise or strengthen their partnerships for the future. Plus with DLC having trouble with retention, they gotta make those count.

Of course, Sakurai probably doesn't mind that change in approach much because he just loves the opportunity to work with new worlds and creators. I'd say it's less that Sakurai loves *insert game here* and more that he loves video games, period. And given the choices we got, it's not to think he has misgivings about the change. Means he can double down on the creative work without having to get slowed down by how many doors are open for him, and having to choose which path to take.
 
Last edited:

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
4,999
I think the main issue this thread sucks so much is you guys always get stuck talking about the same characters for the same reasons. Mix it up

All that said, here comes my new dark horse pick
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
958
I don't think it's that people didn't THINK there would be no DLC or anything like that, I think people just didn't want to get their hopes up for something that did have a chance of not happening. Same thing with more DLC after Fighter Pass 1. Why set yourself up for disappointment instead of just being excited when you're proven wrong?
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,100
I'd say it's less that Sakurai loves *insert game here* and more that he loves video games, period. And given the choices we got, it's hard not to think he has misgivings about the change. Means he can double down on the creative work without having to get slowed down by how many doors are open for him, and having to choose which path to take.
Absolutely this. After reading Sakurai's columns for years, it's very apparent he loves nearly all things video games and he is probably ecstatic at the chance to pull in as many game universes as possible. It's like Sakurai is a crossover fanfiction writer who landed his best possible dream job.
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
Yeah, I've been feeling like I would rather use what free time I have to work on my backlog. I'll probably pop in now and then but I think just being here less regularly would be better for me in the long run.
Probably since the speculation is going to be around for time beings. I’m going to do my backlog soon as well but I will drop by sometime if there are something interesting to discuss.

Some of the stuff in your list (like tobal) counts characters much less diverse and important than mii costumes that represents actual characters =P

At least it would be an interesting exercise to know where it would reach
I would list Pikachu Libra, Leaf, female Robin and female Corrin too but I'm not interested to get into arguments with certain people over this. (I do considered them as their own characters as well. Even Likachu Libra, since she's the representative of Pokken despite her moveset isn't accurate tho.) I'm sure that there are more.

I don't really count those mii costumes since they doesn't really looks like real characters but Sans really comes so close tho.

I think the main issue this thread sucks so much is you guys always get stuck talking about the same characters for the same reasons. Mix it up

All that said, here comes my new dark horse pick
Is that Master Higgins? It has been long time ever since I saw that character.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
Instead of Waluigi breaking out of Assist Trophy CGI, what if Bomberman did this and become playable character instead!
 

KtotheRoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,091
The idea of adding a third party character to Brawl must have sounded insane, lol. But it's clear Sakurai had been thinking about the idea probably since at least Kojima "practically begged" for Snake to get into Melee.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,014
The idea of adding a third party character to Brawl must have sounded insane, lol. But it's clear Sakurai had been thinking about the idea probably since at least Kojima "practically begged" for Snake to get into Melee.
Both Snake & Sonic sound like they would have gotten in if the timeline would have been just a little different
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,014
In retrospect it's kind of amazing that Brawl took on Sonic so late in development. The original plan was clearly not to delay the game, but that's still pretty risky. I guess they really did not want to let this chance slip a second time, even if it lead to delays.
 

brinstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,481
Did we ever find out why Sega was against Sonic being in Brawl initially?
I know some folks who work with Sega on licensed Sonic stuff and the amount of restrictions they have on the characters is insane. It could be something as simple as them not wanting to show Sonic getting beaten up, who knows.
 

Demon Eyes

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,522
how I sleep at night knowing that this game is going to be the biggest media crossover of all time and k. rool was in it day 1

It’s such a damn good feeling knowing such a crossover exists with Ness, Jigglypuff, and Falcon as playable characters not just day 1 of this game but since the series’ beginning
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,100
I would list Pikachu Libra, Leaf, female Robin and female Corrin too but I'm not interested to get into arguments with certain people over this. (I do considered them as their own characters as well. Even Likachu Libra, since she's the representative of Pokken despite her moveset isn't accurate tho.) I'm sure that there are more.

I don't really count those mii costumes since they doesn't really looks like real characters but Sans really comes so close tho.
I would argue Sans is the only Mii Costume currently who could be considered an entirely accurate representation of his character (He's entirely "on model" to use an animation term). His proportions and features match almost exactly the official figurines that have been released for him through fangamer.

With that in mind, I would count his costume, a full body replacement for Mii Gunner, as a legitimate appearance of the character in the game.

What if we were to take the commonly accepted number of "unique" playable characters (ones with individually displayable slots on the character select screen) in the game currently (81 including Terry) and add in all the canonically separate characters who are alt costumes?

Sans
Dark Link (?)
Pikachu Libre
Blood Falcon (?)
Galacta Knight (?)
Dark Meta Knight (?)
Leaf
Claus (?)
Alph
Male Wii Fit
Female Robin
Larry
Roy
Wendy
Iggy
Morton
Lemmy
Ludwig
Female Corrin
Inkling Boy (??)
Meta Ridley (???)
Erdrick
Four
Eight

*"(?)" denotes a costume with elements of a separate canonical character that are not entirely "on model" given their appearances in past games
*"(??)" While the only canonical game universe version of Inkling selectable is Agent 3, The Splatoon manga has a bunch of Inklings who look very similar and are all distinct characters. Honestly I kind of just threw my hands in the air on this one.
*"(???)" There is legitimate debate within the Metroid fanbase as to how exactly Meta Ridley's appearances work canonically when Ridley is seen literally blowing up on several occasions. Some theorize that Meta Ridley is an enhanced clone of the original Ridley, but it is unclear if it shares the consciousness of the original or is a distinct character

Adding the above 24 to our the number of 81, our current total number of playable canonically distinguishable characters in Smash Bros Ultimate is at

105 CHARACTERS


Did I miss anyone?
 

NeonZ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,743
Why would Nintendo want an SNK character, is the thing. And nobody better say "there's a bunch of NeoGeo ports" because come on, no one believes that.
SNK did pledge Switch support (multi-platform though) for 3 franchises in the future (King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown and Metal Slug).


After that we got the announcement that they're porting their new Samurai Shodown game, although several months late, and the other games haven't really been announced yet for any systems.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,175
Houston, TX
Imagine being an assist trophy in Smash Ultimate of all games. I mean.......damn, what a game to be benched for. True, there’s always next time. But that’ll be after the likely roster purge.