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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 5 | The Bear Necessities

Are we going to see Nintendo character getting in Smash Bros via DLC?

  • Yes!!!

    Votes: 90 59.6%
  • No...

    Votes: 61 40.4%

  • Total voters
    151
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Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,102
I would argue Sans is the only Mii Costume currently who could be considered an entirely accurate representation of his character (He's entirely "on model" to use an animation term). His proportions and features match almost exactly the official figurines that have been released for him through fangamer.

With that in mind, I would count his costume, a full body replacement for Mii Gunner, as a legitimate appearance of the character in the game.

What if we were to take the commonly accepted number of "unique" playable characters (ones with individually displayable slots on the character select screen) in the game currently (81 including Terry) and add in all the canonically separate characters who are alt costumes?

Sans
Dark Link (?)
Pikachu Libre
Blood Falcon (?)
Galacta Knight (?)
Dark Meta Knight (?)
Leaf
Claus (?)
Alph
Male Wii Fit
Female Robin
Larry
Roy
Wendy
Iggy
Morton
Lemmy
Ludwig
Female Corrin
Inkling Boy (??)
Meta Ridley (???)
Erdrick
Four
Eight

*"(?)" denotes a costume with elements of a separate canonical character that are not entirely "on model" given their appearances in past games
*"(??)" While the only canonical game universe version of Inkling selectable is Agent 3, The Splatoon manga has a bunch of Inklings who look very similar and are all distinct characters. Honestly I kind of just threw my hands in the air on this one.
*"(???)" There is legitimate debate within the Metroid fanbase as to how exactly Meta Ridley's appearances work canonically when Ridley is seen literally blowing up on several occasions. Some theorize that Meta Ridley is an enhanced clone of the original Ridley, but it is unclear if it shares the consciousness of the original or is a distinct character

Adding the above 24 to our the number of 81, our current total number of playable canonically distinguishable characters in Smash Bros Ultimate is at

105 CHARACTERS


Did I miss anyone?
Posting this at the top of this page cause I spent way too much time on it for it to just get buried at the end of the last page, lmao.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,680
Imagine being an assist trophy in Smash Ultimate of all games. I mean.......damn, what a game to be benched for. True, there’s always next time. But that’ll be after the likely roster purge.
I mean honestly it's not that bad for the first party characters considering they were never getting in as DLC, anyways.

It's just some of the third parties like Bomberman that really sucks, honestly. Making him an AT feels really shortsighted when they're going to include characters from stuff like SNK.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,102
Imagine being an assist trophy in Smash Ultimate of all games. I mean.......damn, what a game to be benched for. True, there’s always next time. But that’ll be after the likely roster purge.
Now that Smash Ultimate DLC has been confirmed to go forward for as long as Sakurai is allowed to do the work, I think there's a real chance Assist Trophies could get upgraded within the same game for the first time and break this barrier. A lot of assist trophies have at least partial move sets already and would be easier to work on than starting a character from scratch.

My list of ones I'd most like to see upgraded:

Isaac
Bomberman
Shovel Knight
Lyn
Knuckles
Zero (but make him MMZ Zero, X Zero is too 80's)
Alucard
 

NeonZ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,746
I would argue Sans is the only Mii Costume currently who could be considered an entirely accurate representation of his character (He's entirely "on model" to use an animation term). His proportions and features match almost exactly the official figurines that have been released for him through fangamer.

With that in mind, I would count his costume, a full body replacement for Mii Gunner, as a legitimate appearance of the character in the game.

What if we were to take the commonly accepted number of "unique" playable characters (ones with individually displayable slots on the character select screen) in the game currently (81 including Terry) and add in all the canonically separate characters who are alt costumes?

Sans
Dark Link (?)
Pikachu Libre
Blood Falcon (?)
Galacta Knight (?)
Dark Meta Knight (?)
Leaf
Claus (?)
Alph
Male Wii Fit
Female Robin
Larry
Roy
Wendy
Iggy
Morton
Lemmy
Ludwig
Female Corrin
Inkling Boy (??)
Meta Ridley (???)
Erdrick
Four
Eight

*"(?)" denotes a costume with elements of a separate canonical character that are not entirely "on model" given their appearances in past games
*"(??)" While the only canonical game universe version of Inkling selectable is Agent 3, The Splatoon manga has a bunch of Inklings who look very similar and are all distinct characters. Honestly I kind of just threw my hands in the air on this one.
*"(???)" There is legitimate debate within the Metroid fanbase as to how exactly Meta Ridley's appearances work canonically when Ridley is seen literally blowing up on several occasions. Some theorize that Meta Ridley is an enhanced clone of the original Ridley, but it is unclear if it shares the consciousness of the original or is a distinct character

Adding the above 24 to our the number of 81, our current total number of playable canonically distinguishable characters in Smash Bros Ultimate is at

105 CHARACTERS


Did I miss anyone?
I wouldn't count Galacta since there are clearly problems (no horns, wrong wings, sword rather than lance). Blood Falcon also is missing some of his accessories, like skull emblems on the boots. Claus also is iffy due to the hair style.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,102
I wouldn't count Galacta since there are clearly problems (no horns, wrong wings, sword rather than lance). Blood Falcon also is missing some of his accessories, like skull emblems on the boots. Claus also is iffy due to the hair style.
Yeah, I went back and forth on whether to include characters who had some canonical elements but were missing others. Ultimately decided to draw the line as broad as possible and put asterisks.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,583
Rochester, New York
I only consider the Koopalings, Alph and the other Heroes as their own characters. Everyone else is just an alt that references another character, or is a gender swap.

I guess Leaf might count, but ultimately she's just female Red.

#justiceforalph
 

steviestar3

Member
Jul 3, 2018
1,310
I mean honestly it's not that bad for the first party characters considering they were never getting in as DLC, anyways.

It's just some of the third parties like Bomberman that really sucks, honestly. Making him an AT feels really shortsighted when they're going to include characters from stuff like SNK.
SNK was a console manufacturer, Bomberman was a b-tier franchise from a now absorbed developer that fell off hard over the last couple of console generations. Even if he wasn’t an assist I don’t see him ever getting in over all of the other options out there.

Not hating, I love Bomberman. Bomberman Hero is the most underrated 3D platformer ever made. But it’s kind of silly to act like he ever had a chance IMO.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,309
SNK did pledge Switch support (multi-platform though) for 3 franchises in the future (King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown and Metal Slug).


After that we got the announcement that they're porting their new Samurai Shodown game, although several months late, and the other games haven't really been announced yet for any systems.
KOFXIV probably won't get ported because it runs on an antiquated proprietary engine, though KOFXV - which doesn't have any platforms announced for it yet - is likely going to have Switch as a target platform. SamSho is the first title the team worked UE4 which would explain why it's a late port, so having that experience going into KOFXV will probably make it way easier to port.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,102
I only consider the Koopalings, Alph and the other Heroes as their own characters. Everyone else is just an alt that references another character, or is a gender swap.

I guess Leaf might count, but ultimately she's just female Red.

#justiceforalph
Pikachu Libre is canonically a different Pikachu than regular Pikachu, even in Pokken they're treated as separate characters. I can understand your argument for the other "gender swaps", but Pikachu Libre and Leaf are pretty distinct characters.

Also, yeah, it's kind of baffling to me that Alph wasn't made an echo fighter with some Rock Pikmin.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,583
Rochester, New York
SNK was a console manufacturer, Bomberman was a b-tier franchise from a now absorbed developer that fell off hard over the last couple of console generations. Even if he wasn’t an assist I don’t see him ever getting in over all of the other options out there.

Not hating, I love Bomberman. Bomberman Hero is the most underrated 3D platformer ever made. But it’s kind of silly to act like he ever had a chance IMO.
Hudson was also a console manufacturer.
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
4,650
Brazil
I have a small theory about this. Nintendo published and developed Doshin along with Param, which was Iida Katzutoshi's (of Artdink's Tail of the Sun and Aquanaut's Holiday fame, thank you Ray Barnholt) I guess...sorta studio, that was part of Marigul, a company Nintendo co-owned with Recruit to facilitate N64 development due to the lack of third parties.

Marigul, and by extension Param, went defunt in 2003, interestingly post-Melee, and was liquidated. It's POSSIBLE that despite being publisher and co-developer on Doshin, Marigul, which was majority owned by Recruit, owned Doshin in some form and it got sold off in 2003, but if that's the case, I question who tf would buy the Doshin property?

Maybe. Just maybe...IT WAS ME!
This post made me actually curious so I went digging. While I'm still neck deep into japanese trademark sites, I did find that Doshin's japanese site is still up after all these years:


I'll report back if I find anything more useful lol
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,661
God I hope SamSho's netcode is good on Switch. I don't want to sub to PS+ just for one game.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
I like to think Bomberman was at least given an AT to honor the history of Hudsonsoft. Hudsonsoft was involved with the creation of the TurboGrafx 16.
 

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
15,052
Sydney, Australia
To see what the Smash team considers as special alt costumes, you should look at the Smash Tag icons. Most fighters have two, with a few exceptions:
  • Mario has default, Builder and Wedding.
  • Link has the Champions Tunic, Tunic of the Wild and Dark Link.
  • Meta Knight has default, his "original NES artwork" color and the Galacta Knight color.
  • Pokemon Trainer has two male and two female icons.
  • Villager has an icon for all eight alts.
  • Little Mac has default, hoodie and wireframe.
  • Robin has two male and two female icons.
  • Bowser Jr. has himself and all of the Koopalings.
  • Corrin has two male and two female icons.
  • Bayonetta has the default, the Jeanne color and the Bayo 1 alt.
  • Inkling has all eight of their colors.
  • Hero has all four heroes.
And while the others only have two, the choices are notable:
  • Pikachu has Libre.
  • Captain Falcon has the Blood Falcon alt.
  • Young Link has the Dark alt.
  • Wario has biker and overalls.
  • Ike has his two appearances.
  • Lucas has the Claus alt.
  • Olimar has himself and Alph.
  • Toon Link has the Dark alt.
  • ROB has NES and Famicom colors.
  • Wii Fit Trainer has Male and Female.
  • Ridley has Meta Ridley.
  • Joker has the Shujin outfit.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,102
Color references with no model changes make things very loose though.


I'd never count those four.
Yeah, Claus was the toughest call because he is supposed to be nearly identical to Lucas anyway. All the others have some kind of model/texture change to make them a more significant departure from just a recolor. (The scars on Galacta Knight and Dark Meta Knight, the emblem on the back for Blood Falcon)
 

RomanceDawn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
882
Los Angeles
Dixie Kong where art thou? Sakurai don't you want to revisit a piece of your old Brawl idea? Maybe Sakurai got a lot of back lash from competitive Smashers and Brawl specific ideas have left a scar on his heart.

I am amazed that we live in a time line where Ridley, Cloud and Bayonetta got in before Dixie Kong. Not scything that they aren't more popular just that they seem like harder gets than Dixie.

Now that Smash Ultimate DLC has been confirmed to go forward for as long as Sakurai is allowed to do the work, I think there's a real chance Assist Trophies could get upgraded within the same game for the first time and break this barrier. A lot of assist trophies have at least partial move sets already and would be easier to work on than starting a character from scratch.

My list of ones I'd most like to see upgraded:

Isaac
Bomberman
Shovel Knight
Lyn
Knuckles
Zero (but make him MMZ Zero, X Zero is too 80's)
Alucard
How dare you?! Nothing is too 80's!

This is a great list, I'd add in...
Sukapon
Takamaru
Samurai Goroh
Spring Man
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,102
Would Tharja count as that? Because Lucina has an alt with her colors that adds Tharja's cape symbol on the back
I did not actually know that Lucina's Tharja colors changed the cape symbol! Today I learned!

Still, the reason I included Blood Falcon is because he looks incredibly similar to Captain Falcon other than small details. Tharja is entirely visually distinct from Lucina at nearly every level.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,018
I only consider the Koopalings, Alph and the other Heroes as their own characters. Everyone else is just an alt that references another character, or is a gender swap.

I guess Leaf might count, but ultimately she's just female Red.

#justiceforalph
Thanks to Let's Go she has finally been released from purgatory albeit now called Green
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,661
Geno is more famous for being requested in Smash than he is for being an actual game character.
It is weird how of all dark horse characters to get pulled from obscurity, it's Geno from Super Mario RPG.

Like Banjo-Kazooie, that makes sense that people demanded them, they're Nintendo icons! Why didn't Mallow, Fawful or Vivian generate this much goodwill?

Personally it's because he's cool and has neat powers, but I wonder how that ballooned into the current situation, where we have to consider him a legit contender for DLC.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,309
Geno is more famous for being requested in Smash than he is for being an actual game character.
He probably wouldn't have blown up in demand the way he did if it weren't for Sakurai commenting on him. Geno had some semblance of minor support during the Brawl days and a lot of word-of-mouth that was contingent on memes and hoaxes (which for ~2007-2008 was fairly rare). Of course, the fact that Sakurai even showed his hand back then, particularly when Ultimate was already in the project plans at the point of his comment, made it questionable at all whether he was even likely.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,661
He probably wouldn't have blown up in demand the way he did if it weren't for Sakurai commenting on him. Geno had some semblance of minor support during the Brawl days and a lot of word-of-mouth that was contingent on memes and hoaxes (which for ~2007-2008 was fairly rare). Of course, the fact that Sakurai even showed his hand back then, particularly when Ultimate was already in the project plans at the point of his comment, made it questionable at all whether he was even likely.
Except

like

Sakurai called Geno a highly requested character in that interview.
 

Zan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,031
SnowTexas, Cannuckistan
So I was doing a list of potential characters if anyone is left, tell me so I can add him/her/it.

Capcom:
Jill Valentine / Leon Kennedy / Chris Redfield (Resident Evil)
Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Viewtiful Joe (Viewtiful Joe)
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Arthur (Ghost ’n’ Goblins)
Chun-Li (Street Fighter)

Square Enix:
Lara Croft (Tomb Rider)
Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Bub & Bob (Bubble Bobble)

Konami:
Pyramid Head (Silent Hill)
Goemon (Mystical Ninja)
Bill Rizer / Lance Bean (Contra)

Marvelous:
Asuka (Senran Kagura)
Farmer (Harvest Moon)
Adventurer (Rune Factory)

SNK:
Terry Bogard / Mai Shiranui (The King of Fighters)

Koei Tecmo:
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Bandai Namco:
Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Heihachi / Jin Kazama / Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
Nightmare (Soulcalibur)
Yoshimitsu (Tekken / Soulcalibur)
KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Agumon (Digimon)
Solaire / Artorias (Dark Souls)

Level-5:
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Jibanyan (Yo-kai Watch)

Spike Chunsoft:
Shiren (Mystery Dungeon)

Nihon Falcom:
Adol Christin (Ys series)

Team Shanghai Alice
Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

Grasshopper:
Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes)

Ubisoft:
Ezio Auditore (Assassin’s Creed)
Rayman (Rayman)
Prince (Prince of Persia)
Sam Fisher (Splinter Cell)

Microsoft:
Master Chief (Halo)
Steve (Minecraft)

Activision / Blizzard:
Spyro (Spyro)
Crash (Crash Bandicoot)
Diablo (Diablo)
Arthas (World of Warcraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Bethesda:
Doomslayer (Doom)
Dovahkiin (Elder Scrolls)

Rockstar:
Max Payne (Max Payne)

Electronic Arts:
Commander Shepard (Mass Effect)

IO Interactive:
Agent 47 (Hitman)

Warner Bros:
Scorpion / Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)

Riot:
Ryze / Ashe / Jax / Teemo (League of Legends)


.n_n.
Arc System Works: Kunio.
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,546
I never saw your list! Do you still have a link?

I know people probably don't share same feelings as I do but it's pretty crazy that we're approaching at 100 characters with Hero. I know some alt costumes doesn't matters to you but I just like them because Sakurai actually go far as it goes with some alt costumes.
  1. Mario
  2. Donkey Kong
  3. Link
  4. Dark Link
  5. Samus
  6. Dark Samus
  7. Yoshi
  8. Kirby
  9. Fox
  10. Pikachu
  11. Pikachu Libre (Pokken character)
  12. Luigi
  13. Ness
  14. Captain Falcon
  15. Blood Falcon
  16. Jigglypuff
  17. Peach
  18. Daisy
  19. Bowser
  20. Ice Climbers
  21. Sheik
  22. Zelda
  23. Dr. Mario
  24. Pichu
  25. Falco
  26. Marth
  27. Lucina
  28. Young Link
  29. Ganondorf
  30. Mewtwo
  31. Roy
  32. Chrom
  33. Mr. Game & Watch
  34. Meta Knight
  35. Dark Meta Knight
  36. Pit
  37. Dark Pit
  38. Zero Suit Samus
  39. Wario
  40. Solid Snake
  41. Ike
  42. Pokemon Trainer: Red
  43. Pokemon Trainer: Leaf
  44. Squirtle
  45. Ivysaur
  46. Charizard
  47. Diddy Kong
  48. Lucas
  49. Sonic
  50. King Dedede
  51. Pikmin & Olimar
  52. Pikmin & Alph
  53. Lucario
  54. R.O.B
  55. Toon Link
  56. Shadow Link
  57. Wolf
  58. Villager (Male)
  59. Villager (Female)
  60. Mega Man
  61. Wii Fit Trainer
  62. Rosalina & Luma
  63. Little Mac
  64. Greninja
  65. Mii Brawler
  66. Mii Gunner
  67. Mii Swordfighter
  68. Palutena
  69. PAC-MAN
  70. Robin (Male)
  71. Robin (Female)
  72. Shulk
  73. Bowser Jr.
  74. Larry
  75. Roy
  76. Wendy
  77. Iggy
  78. Morton
  79. Lemmy
  80. Ludwig
  81. Duck Hunt
  82. Ryu
  83. Ken
  84. Cloud
  85. Corrin (Male)
  86. Corrin (Female)
  87. Bayonetta
  88. Inkling (Female)
  89. Inkling (Male)
  90. Agent 3
  91. Ridley
  92. Simon Belmont
  93. Richter Belmont
  94. King K. Rool
  95. Isabelle
  96. Incineroar
  97. Piranha Plant
  98. Joker
  99. Luminary
  100. Eight
  101. Solo
  102. Erdrick
  103. Banjo-Kazooie
  104. Terry
  105. #75
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,661
I thought we weren't supposed to take Sakurai at his word lol
Anyone with eyes could tell the difference between "a thing Sakurai said in an interview" and "a strange sequence of events where Sakurai downplays his involvement where contradictions arise from other Nintendo reps and companies discussing Sakurai's involvement with the DLC picks that don't gel with one another."

But I'll just take solace in being Right On The Internet once more.
 
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