Alternatively, Sakurai doesn't care about Sonic very much. He is by far and away the laziest implemented third-party character, which ironically makes him feel closer to a 64/Melee character since they also tend to have more generic movesets.
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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 5 | The Bear Necessities
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Alternatively, Sakurai doesn't care about Sonic very much. He is by far and away the laziest implemented third-party character, which ironically makes him feel closer to a 64/Melee character since they also tend to have more generic movesets.
But at the same time, Nintendo rarely changes course when it comes to the poster child of their IPs. The closest we've seen to this is Intelligent Systems changing course to Female Corrin as the main version of the character (something that Sakurai ignored in Ultimate) & Twintelle potentially taking Ribbon Girl's leading lady status.
Sonic is nothing in Japan and Shadow is a bad character from bad games. Sakurai has taste.
Brawl was delayed specifically so they could add Sonic. We can't gauge anything like that from interviews, either.
I Kind of forgot, how much did that big poll on Source Gaming got discussed here? It seemed relatively big, with 3 votes allowed per user and total of 9000+ votes. Albeit some placings are probably bit biased, I think it might give better look at popularity of characters outside of Era.
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2019/05/15/sg-susbu-fighter-pass-poll/
And yeah, for Shadow, need we forget his own game as well? He might have had a bit of negativity around him. That or echoes were super last minute, and Shadow was 100% getting his AT back. But I wonder if Dark Samus' AT was originally planned to be back.
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2019/05/15/sg-susbu-fighter-pass-poll/
And yeah, for Shadow, need we forget his own game as well? He might have had a bit of negativity around him. That or echoes were super last minute, and Shadow was 100% getting his AT back. But I wonder if Dark Samus' AT was originally planned to be back.
Now I actually do wonder if Shadow is just seen as some random side character in Japan and not the mega popular recolor he is outside of Japan
From doing some googling, it seems Japan tends to like classic Sonic more, as modern Sonic is too western focused? I wonder if Sakurai just doesn't really see Shadow as anything important.
From doing some googling, it seems Japan tends to like classic Sonic more, as modern Sonic is too western focused? I wonder if Sakurai just doesn't really see Shadow as anything important.
A fair bit. Especially during the Resident Evil vs. Ace Attorney days of "We're totally gonna get a new Capcom rep".
I don't think the Sonic series was ever a big deal in Japan. The Nintendo vs. Sega rivalry wasn't even a thing over there.
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West massively loving a franchise that isn't loved nearly as much in Japan? Sonic.
Japan massively loving a franchise that isn't loved nearly as much in West? Dragon Quest.
Japan massively loving a franchise that isn't loved nearly as much in West? Dragon Quest.
Puyo Puyo was created by Compile, and it was originally a spin-off of an RPG series (yes, really).
The popularity of Shantae in these polls always surprises me.
Not because she's a bad character or her games are bad, but I was under the impression that the Shantae games never did super great in terms of sales. That's why HGH had to go to Kickstarter and why it didn't even do that well there (in comparison to other obvious Kickstarter juggernauts like Mighty Number 9 and Bloodstained).
I've been researching characters from franchises I haven't played, and I think Arle would be a really fun rep now that I've done my research on her. Basically now that I've gotten my most wanted characters, almost any character that isn't Minecraft Steve or something would be a super fun reveal for me.
They should do a Segata Sanshiro Mii costume like the Sans one, and include his theme as a bonus track.
Huh, that is pretty weird... guess the Arle requests make more sense though if she was a former RPG heroine.
Huh, that is pretty weird... guess the Arle requests make more sense though if she was a former RPG heroine.
DK Vine's 4 hour podcast on Banjo and Kazooie in Smash is up and it feels like a 20 year climax finally reaching its conclusion
I don't think SEGA got any problems with Shadow having a carbon copy gameplay from Sonic.. since recently in Sonic Forces, he was basically just that, a glorified alternate skin
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Puyo Puyo is pretty huge in Japan and they have tourney scenes for those games. So I think so.
Despite that, Shadow is one of the most popular characters after Sonic himself (I wanna say he's even the second most popular, before even Tails, Knuckles or Robotnik). In Sonic ensemble cast games, Shadow almost always is among the first characters revealed.
However, considering in Japan, Sonic always was more of a B-series, I think it's more that fact than how Shadow is perceived by some parts of a very split fanbase. Keep in mind that Sakurai does not seem to mind controversial picks - we got characters like Wii Fit Trainer or Corrin, which are characters that Sakurai most definitely anticipated negative backlash to, and we also got characters who definitely split the Smash fanbase, such as Ridley, as well.
If Sakurai had wanted to include Shadow, then I think we would have gotten him. In the same vein, even though characters like Ms. Pac-Man, Alph, Proto Man etc. would have made a lot of sense as additional Echoes too - and in the case of Alph, was planned to be such in Smash 4 - they ultimately were not chosen, and I think the reason for that is mainly because the Echoes we got in Ultimate, outside of Ken and Richter, all most definitely were big in the ballot.
Dark Samus and Chrom are basically confirmed ballot picks, and Daisy most likely is as well. Sakurai seemingly was intending to include Ken as clone in Smash 4 already, plus there's the whole "original Echo fighter" angle. Richter made sense to include because Simon's moveset already was heavily based off of Richter's abilities, and as Castlevania was the only new guest series, so it getting an Echo also wasn't completely out of the blue.
So, in the grand scheme of things, Shadow's omission from getting picked as an Echo makes sense and falls in line with the other options they would have had. I think however, if we had gotten like say 3 or 4 more Echoes, Shadow (or Metal Sonic) probably would have made the cut.
Puyo is Sega, yes, and also probably the biggest series from 'em in Japan.
Within western fandom Shantae feels like decently popular character. It's obvious she was popular during the ballot too, which is why Sakurai included her as a .PNG.
Honestly, there are notable differences between Era's opinions & and from everywhere else from what I've seen.
Yeah. The cast looked quite a bit different back then, more like classic anime/Sailor Moon characters.
I'm still annoyed with how Source Gaming actively contributes to the perception that Geno is a meme pick by calling into question the validity of Geno at number 5 through, "I do wonder how many people picked for his design or because he has been hyped up so long." Why does the idea of people voting him for his design make him any less valid of an option. People are often extremely shallow in the characters they support, so it seems odd to call him out specifically on that front.
Additionally, I feel like the Smash community needs to quit using "bandwagoning" as a negative all the time. There's nothing wrong with a popular character getting more support because awareness of the character has been raised through support. It's only an issue when people "bandwagon just to be right" and I feel like that's not as common as some people believe. Yes, some characters do legitimately enter the conversation just because they seem more likely at a given time... but then people often discover things and ideas they really like about characters and end up supporting them more legitimately/honestly. And that seems like only a good thing. And some people just want to see other people happy too, so they support the character. Those types of "bandwagoning" don't seem like an issue to me.
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Who said those? Just wonder?
Edited: never mind. I found out. Its NantenJex
Honestly, I have massive respect for Geno fans. The absolute nobody that is a Geno is actually a really requested character that has a chance. And I don't mean that Geno is a meme, its objectively true that he is a character from a 20+ year old game where he was a minor playable character and that's it (+ like one cameo but still). Yet his supporters never gave up on him. I hope he gets in one day.
Geno should have been playable in Fortune Street. That game even gave us our first proper SMRPG remix.
They must have thought, "Metal Sonic is way better! Let's wait a while and sell him as DLC."
Same.
The reason I anticipate Geno is because I've been around various Smash character speculation boards since before Brawl came out (this is definitely not my first rodeo, but so far this has been the best rodeo)
Geno has been a powerful presence in Smash speculation since the mid-2000's. His support goes as far back as Ridley and King K. Rool's fanbases.
Geno was a thing before memes were a mainstream concept. Geno isn't a meme pick, he's a representation of a vocal fan base that has lasted this long. Now he's a very real possibility.
The proliferation of "meme pick" around characters like Geno and Waluigi is one of the most annoying things about Smash fans in a sea comprised almost entirely of annoying things.
I'll absolutely call Waluigi a meme pick. It was literally a meme that caused his surge in popularity. "Everyone Is Here! ...Except Waluigi".
Geno is a whole different ballgame.
Liking Waluigi because of funny internet jokes is valid. Not to mention he's a Mario character and is, by definition, more popular than most of the current cast.
Maybe people just like Waluigi because he's a goofy and charming Mario character that has appeared in a billion games over the last 20 years and it's not some "meme" pick or whatever.
The vitriolic attitude toward Waluigi bothers me too. The reason why Waluigi is so popular is because out of every First Party option left for Smash, Waluigi is the most popular and mainstream. Not because he's a meme and it's funny.
Not everybody has played Golden Sun but almost everyone has definitely played Mario Kart or Mario Party.
People who cried out for Waluigi during the "Everyone is here!" reveal don't vote in fan polls or participate in smash speculation discussions. They just know who Waluigi is and know he isn't in Smash Bros.
Liking Waluigi because he's silly and wacky is a perfectly fine reason to want him in Smash. It just means you like the character for exactly the reason he was created, so he's doing his job.
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The reason he was created was to give Wario a doubles partner in Tennis lol
The silliness didn't really come about until the GCN era.
Now everyone else who wanted the character and didn't harrass anyone are being told that the character they want shouldn't be in because then the assholes win.
Waluigi was legit in Super Mario Strikers.
His special ability could give you a free power shot if you do it right.
His special ability could give you a free power shot if you do it right.
I hate these arguments and I don't even care about Waluigi. It's just implying that only the Waluigi fanbase has toxic members, which we should all know is absolutely not the case.
Fuck, we need a Mario Strikers on Switch. Maybe after Next Level finishes Luigi's Mansion 3 we can get one?
He and Dry Bones were the most broken characters in Mario Strikers Charged. They had a move where they can just teleport straight into the goal with no effort. Just one more reason to hate the both of them. lol
I think people would sing a different tune about Waluigi had he been given a major role in the mainline Mario series, or even had his own game series like Wario and Yoshi.
As it currently stands, a lot of people just view him as that throwaway spinoff roster filler character.
As it currently stands, a lot of people just view him as that throwaway spinoff roster filler character.
I know I would, personally. I don't actually dislike the character -- there's just so little to him, and I don't know what people see in him that makes him an exciting Smash Bros. pick.
I just want Waluigi to be in a trailer where someone uses an AT, he busts out, then turns around and smashes the user away. BOOM! Waluigi Breaks The Rules! Capped by a Super Smash Bros. Ultimate X Waluigi logo. Oh, it would be so glorious.
excuse me he's a boss in DDR Mario Mix don't short change the man
I think too many people are concerned with the standing of characters than their actual worth or what they could bring to Smash.
This is almost a case for him, in my opinion. He's a weird, ever present Mario character with a ton of creepy personality, but no actual substance. Thinking about the moveset Sakurai could envision for such a strange character is honestly my main draw towards his inclusion. It would also make people happy and would no doubt usher in a ton of incredible memes, comics, fan art etc. That stuff is always a really nice bonus when it comes to Smash characters.
I agree. I know they don't happen much anymore but I love the Smash "OCs" like Bowser Jr, Captain Falcon, and the Star Fox crew. I
Waluigi has a lot going for him, even though he originated as and still technically is a throwaway spinoff roster filler character.
He's really popular with more casual fans, much like Daisy, who also apparently is hated by everyone and their grandma according to Era. The fact he's part of the plumber quartet makes him already stand out from the sea of playable characters, especially combined with his weird proportions and antics. There's a reason why he keeps appearing in spinoffs even as a standalone character that isn't necessarily partnered with Wario. I definitely remember that there was pretty massive backlash at his absence in Mario Kart 7, and that was before the Everyone Is Here except Waluigi thing.
If Waluigi was as unpopular as Era seems to consistently suggest, then he would not have consistently appeared in basically every spin-off game since Mario Tennis 64, and, like characters such as Honey Queen or Wiggler, would have gotten the axe after at most a couple of games.
He's really popular with more casual fans, much like Daisy, who also apparently is hated by everyone and their grandma according to Era. The fact he's part of the plumber quartet makes him already stand out from the sea of playable characters, especially combined with his weird proportions and antics. There's a reason why he keeps appearing in spinoffs even as a standalone character that isn't necessarily partnered with Wario. I definitely remember that there was pretty massive backlash at his absence in Mario Kart 7, and that was before the Everyone Is Here except Waluigi thing.
If Waluigi was as unpopular as Era seems to consistently suggest, then he would not have consistently appeared in basically every spin-off game since Mario Tennis 64, and, like characters such as Honey Queen or Wiggler, would have gotten the axe after at most a couple of games.
Is Bowser Jr. really a "Smash OC"? He's pretty clearly based on his depiction in the NSMB games, where he flies around in his own Koopa Clown Car.
Obviously he has some made up moves, but it doesn't really feel like a moveset made out of thin air in the same way Falcon's was.
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