Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 6 | Hungry Like The Wolf

Where do you think Challenger #5 would be revealed at?

  • During Terry's Promo Video

    Votes: 79 23.5%
  • During the Game Award

    Votes: 194 57.7%
  • During the next Nintendo Direct

    Votes: 44 13.1%
  • During a special stand-alone live stream

    Votes: 19 5.7%

  • Total voters
    336
  • Poll closed .

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
16,350
Sydney, Australia
Yeah, I spent too much time typing this, so i’m not letting it die on the last page.

You know, i'm really struggling to come up with a selection of 11 more fighters that i'm really fine with. I'm not even including characters from existing franchises or echo fighters (which just complicate things more!) and it's still difficult.



What i'm thinking right now is:
  • Ryu Hayabusa: Totally justified as a Smash inclusion for reasons I really don't need to go into (we've talked about that enough).
  • Geno: A huge fan request and a favourite of Sakurai; shouldn't be hard to justify. Swapping him out for a female Square Enix character like 2B or Lara Croft would help with balancing out representation within the remainder of the DLC, but in this case I think fan demand would win out.
  • Doom Slayer: An icon of a genre that has gone unrepresented on Smash's roster thus far (inb4 "Dark Samus tho"). Bethesda have talked to Nintendo about Smash, the heads at id are fine with his inclusion, but it's up to Nintendo to see the worth in adding a franchise that finds it's popularity in the West. Also i'm biased.
  • Howard: While i'm avoiding first-party characters here due to the current nature of the passes, I think Astral Chain, as a brand new franchise with no content in Smash, could still fit in with the current mold of the DLC.
  • Arle: Out of the remaining options of Sega, I think representing Puyo Puyo is a great choice. Arle's first appearance predates Sonic 1, and the franchise she would represent is still older than a majority of the characters here (only beaten by Ninja Gaiden; Doom is third).
  • Sol Badguy: Guilty Gear is, by far, my favourite choice for another fighting game franchise in Smash. Arc System Works are a huge unrepresented Japanese developer, and has a unique style that would make Sol stand out. Also the music.
Then, there are a few i'm not really sure about:
  • A Bandai Namco Rep: There are a lot of reasonable choices for this slot, so it's really hard to pick one (I don't even have all of the potential options pictured above):
    • The Prince of All Cosmos: My personal pick, but I know he and the cousins (which would include one or two female options) aren't happening. They could be a very unique presence in Smash, and would also have some of the best music additions, but alas...
    • KOS-MOS: I know there are some people here who want her, and she has plenty of moveset potential to work with, but people here probably already know that I doubt her chances. Still, i'd be totally fine with seeing this happen.
    • Chosen Undead: Dark Souls is the type of modern hit I could see Nintendo interested in representing (especially when looking at all of the promotion Dark Souls Remastered received in Nintendo presentations), and Sakurai could make something work here.
    • Lloyd Irving: Tales is a series that was already represented in Smash once, and it seems like Sakurai's pick would definitely be Lloyd. I'm not all that interested in his inclusion, but I do see him as a likely option.
    • Heihachi: I really don't think we'll see Heihachi (or any Tekken rep) make it in (already including Sol on my list is a factor in that though), but it'd feel wrong to not mention him.
  • A Capcom Rep: I'll acknowledge a Resident Evil rep, Dante and Monster Hunter as valid options, but there are really only two that i'm focused on (because they're my top 2):
    • Phoenix Wright: I don't think I need to really sell his inclusion in Smash. Ace Attorney has a strong tie to Nintendo, a strong future and plenty of great music for Sakurai to include. They've made him work in a fighting game before, but i'm sure Sakurai can come up with something different and special.
    • Amaterasu: For the sake of adding another female character to this lineup, i'm really leaning towards Amaterasu, but I realise that she wouldn't really be in the running. I just think she'd be a fun Smash inclusion (her appearance in MvC3 proves that to me).
  • A New Japanese Third-Party: This slot is mainly a toss-up between two options I have in mind, but there's a third I had in mind:
    • Travis Touchdown: The option i'd probably pick here. Era has plenty of Travis supporters who could do a better job at explaining why he should be included, so I won't bother there. Marvelous already have content in Smash, and Suda is 100% on-board with Travis making it in.
    • Professor Layton: Has a strong tie to Nintendo (with the first six installments being published by them), and his series is still moving forward (even if he isn't the protagonist). Level-5 are having a tough time with Yo-Kai Watch dying on them, but I still consider them big enough for Smash.
    • Jason & Sophia 3rd: An underdog pick that i've latched onto recently. Blaster Master is a Famicom classic, and the series has found new life through indie-developed titles. Sunsoft really aren't all that big, but I think Sophia could make for an interesting Smash character.
  • A New Western Third-Party: Really, out of these two I would personally root for Sora (after... you know what), but i'll give Crash a fair shake too:
    • Sora: A really huge Smash request, doesn't really overlap with Geno since they have different owners, and would just please a lot of people. The biggest obstacle is sorting everything out with Disney, but if they can do it, they should go for it.
    • Crash: Activision are really trying to bring the Bandicoot back, and they've made it work. I'd definitely expect to see him make it over Spyro, at the very least. The original Crash trilogy sold very well for western titles in Japan, so i'm sure he would be welcome there too.
  • An Indie Rep: The most-likely choice here is probably Reimu, but i'll still talk about my most-wanted anyway:
    • Reimu: Touhou Project is massive in Japan, probably being the biggest indie inclusion they could manage for that market. I'm afraid of how the west would respond to her, but I think she's a likely option (since I believe Shovel Knight, Shantae and Undertale are all out).
    • Hornet: She will never EVER happen, but i'd love Hornet. Hollow Knight is a stand-out indie title (promoted by Nintendo during E3 2018 with a shadow-drop release), and with Silksong (also advertised by Nintendo during E3 this year) letting Hornet take over as the protagonist, she could work as the representative for this indie franchise. Also, uh, patriotism, or whatever.
Whoo. That took forever. Honestly, I forgot what my original point here was after writing so much. Uh... oh right: THERE ARE TOO MANY GOOD OPTIONS FOR SMASH AND I CAN'T TAKE IT.
 

MondoMega

Member
Jan 10, 2018
16,350
Sydney, Australia
These are all really solid, reasonable choices. Personally, I'd throw Kiryu on there because I really want him and I don't think Sakurai would mind repping Sega again, but yeah, good stuff.
Kiryu is definitely right up there with Arle for the next Sega inclusion, but I just decided to go with her.

I’m down for him; but I also wanted to make sure I had some female fighters locked in.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
I feel like an idiot (although I can't blame myself entirely as back in 2007-2009 I didn't really know or pay attention to Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive).

I did not realize the Halo 3 armor was a direct reference to Ryu Hayabusa. I honestly thought it was some cool armor the developers made up (with no inspiration) to get players to try and work for.



I could sell a few people I know who like smash but say "Who the hell is Hero/Joker?" by saying "Remember that armor from Halo 3? This guy was the inspiration."
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,058
trying to put together a list of 11 or 12 Mortal Kombat songs in my head and I’m honestly not sure Mortal Kombat games even have music
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
32,574
I feel like an idiot (although I can't blame myself entirely as back in 2007-2009 I didn't really know or pay attention to Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive).

I did not realize the Halo 3 armor was a direct reference to Ryu Hayabusa. I honestly thought it was some cool armor the developers made up (with no inspiration) to get players to try and work for.



I could sell a few people I know who like smash but say "Who the hell is Hero/Joker?" by saying "Remember that armor from Halo 3? This guy was the inspiration."
If you want Ryu from Ninja Gaiden to get in, I wouldn't point to a game with a better character who could be added instead
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,367
I feel like an idiot (although I can't blame myself entirely as back in 2007-2009 I didn't really know or pay attention to Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive).

I did not realize the Halo 3 armor was a direct reference to Ryu Hayabusa. I honestly thought it was some cool armor the developers made up (with no inspiration) to get players to try and work for.



I could sell a few people I know who like smash but say "Who the hell is Hero/Joker?" by saying "Remember that armor from Halo 3? This guy was the inspiration."
Stuff like this is why I say a lot of the regulars in this thread are sleeping hard on Master Chief.

They simply do not understand the magnitude of cultural impact Halo had on the larger gaming landscape outside the Nintendo community bubble. The fact that a Halo 3 multiplayer cosmetic unlockable is the only touchstone some gamers have to Ninja Gaiden...Halo transcended to another level of cultural zeitgeist between 2005 and 2013. It’s very possible next gen it’ll get there again.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,058
I think you can fully understand Master Chief’s importance and still question his Smash chances
 

Bluewind098

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,229
I think you can fully understand Master Chief’s importance and still question his Smash chances
Essentially this. Ironically enough we live in a timeline where Nintendo has a healthy relationship with Microsoft that's enough to get Banjo in but not so good as to bring over their more notable first parties. Hell we don't even have the original Banjo games on the Switch and Sakurai straight up said to play them on the Xbox One. It seems like they have their limits on their generosity.

It seems MS just wanted to put out their indie/2nd party? titles on Switch because they often were a little outside of their audience and would've found them on the Switch and Banjo just seems like a case of allowing Nintendo to play around with their IP for Smash. To be honest it seems like MS was always willing to let Banjo in but Nintendo never asked and it wasn't until the ballot where they had the demand to make it worthwhile.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
10,744
Stuff like this is why I say a lot of the regulars in this thread are sleeping hard on Master Chief.

They simply do not understand the magnitude of cultural impact Halo had on the larger gaming landscape outside the Nintendo community bubble. The fact that a Halo 3 multiplayer cosmetic unlockable is the only touchstone some gamers have to Ninja Gaiden...Halo transcended to another level of cultural zeitgeist between 2005 and 2013. It’s very possible next gen it’ll get there again.
Where are all of these western IPs with massive cultural impact already in Smash?

Where is the interest in having Halo on a Nintendo console?

If you want to talk Microsoft IPs with cultural impact, and actual relevance in Japan, Minecraft crushes Halo under its boot.

I don't mean to be dismissive because I know you really want Chief, but I don't think there is an actual argument that he has a real chance yet to be in Smash, so it's basically impossible to be "sleeping on him."
 
Last edited:

Hailinel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,758
Stuff like this is why I say a lot of the regulars in this thread are sleeping hard on Master Chief.

They simply do not understand the magnitude of cultural impact Halo had on the larger gaming landscape outside the Nintendo community bubble. The fact that a Halo 3 multiplayer cosmetic unlockable is the only touchstone some gamers have to Ninja Gaiden...Halo transcended to another level of cultural zeitgeist between 2005 and 2013. It’s very possible next gen it’ll get there again.
Some people barely have a connection to Ninja Gaiden, some barely have a connection to Halo. That Ninja Gaiden has a cosmetic unlockable reference in Halo 3 isn't really indicative that one is bigger than the other (though it's very easy to see how much bigger Halo was especially in the OG Xbox/360 era).

NInja Gaiden was a major get for Microsoft's consoles back then, both in terms of the franchise's legacy (fans had been dying for a Ninja Gaiden 4 for decades), and as a quality action-adventure in its own right. (Of course, that also came with the baggage that was Tomonobu Itagaki's rock star/Xbox fanboy persona.) Both Ninja Gaiden and Halo also ended up sharing content in a sense since, in addition to the Hayabusa armor in Halo 3, Dead or Alive 4 features a female Spartan on its roster.

But, in the argument for Smash, Ninja Gaiden honestly has the more likely chance of making it in with Hayabusa at this point. There's already a Microsoft rep in Smash with Banjo, who has a much, much, much stronger tie to Nintendo than Master Chief could ever hope to have, and Ninja Gaiden is a legacy series with its roots on the NES while Koei Tecmo has yet to feature a playable character in the roster.

No, but seriously, Itagaki's antics were super-embarrassing.
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,021
It's still weird that Homerun Contest took nearly an entire year after launch to bring back.

It's nice to have it back, but I really wish it could of been in the base game to begin with mainly because, as it currently is, there's not much incentive to play it due to obviously the lack of any achievements or unlockables tied into it.
There are "challenges" for Home Run but it's milestone/notice so I believe that we have three home run milestones. So that's better than nothing tho.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,367
Essentially this. Ironically enough we live in a timeline where Nintendo has a healthy relationship with Microsoft that's enough to get Banjo in but not so good as to bring over their more notable first parties. Hell we don't even have the original Banjo games on the Switch and Sakurai straight up said to play them on the Xbox One. It seems like they have their limits on their generosity.

It seems MS just wanted to put out their indie/2nd party? titles on Switch because they often were a little outside of their audience and would've found them on the Switch and Banjo just seems like a case of allowing Nintendo to play around with their IP for Smash. To be honest it seems like MS was always willing to let Banjo in but Nintendo never asked and it wasn't until the ballot where they had the demand to make it worthwhile.
Where are all of these western IPs with massive cultural impact already in Smash?

Where is the interest in having Halo on a Nintendo console?

If you want to talk Microsoft IPs with cultural impact, and actual relevance in Japan, Minecraft crushes Halo under its boot.
Some people barely have a connection to Ninja Gaiden, some barely have a connection to Halo. That Ninja Gaiden has a cosmetic unlockable reference in Halo 3 isn't really indicative that one is bigger than the other (though it's very easy to see how much bigger Halo was especially in the OG Xbox/360 era).

NInja Gaiden was a major get for Microsoft's consoles back then, both in terms of the franchise's legacy (fans had been dying for a Ninja Gaiden 4 for decades), and as a quality action-adventure in its own right. (Of course, that also came with the baggage that was Tomonobu Itagaki's rock star/Xbox fanboy persona.) Both Ninja Gaiden and Halo also ended up sharing content in a sense since, in addition to the Hayabusa armor in Halo 3, Dead or Alive 4 features a female Spartan on its roster.

But, in the argument for Smash, Ninja Gaiden honestly has the more likely chance of making it in with Hayabusa at this point. There's already a Microsoft rep in Smash with Banjo, who has a much, much, much stronger tie to Nintendo than Master Chief could ever hope to have, and Ninja Gaiden is a legacy series with its roots on the NES while Koei Tecmo has yet to feature a playable character in the roster.

No, but seriously, Itagaki's antics were super-embarrassing.
The level of doubt for classic Halo games coming to Switch is honestly kind of staggering. After multiple credible industry insiders saying it’s happening, a consistent pattern of Microsoft expressing platform agnosticism, a clear message that they don’t consider the Switch a competing platform... It’s happening people.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
10,744
The level of doubt for classic Halo games coming to Switch is honestly kind of staggering. After multiple credible industry insiders saying it’s happening, a consistent pattern of Microsoft expressing platform agnosticism, a clear message that they don’t consider the Switch a competing platform... It’s happening people.
This suggests the opposite.


The past year has been an exciting time for us as we have more than doubled the internal creative teams making up Xbox Game Studios. As these new studios transitioned in, we were aware of some existing commitments to other platforms and will honor them. However, going forward these new studios will focus on making games for our platforms. We have no plans to further expand our exclusive first party games to other consoles. We continue to believe deeply in cross play and progression of games with the right flexibility for developers to insure a fair and fun experience.
While they are talking about new games, it would be a very specific statement to make and then announce MCC half a year later.

Sometimes insiders are wrong or have outdated info. It happens. We've heard this rumor for months and months and still absolutely nothing. You can't make people just believe in spite of everything.

I wanted to bring this from my previous post where I edited:

I don't mean to be dismissive because I know you really want Chief, but I don't think there is an actual argument that he has a real chance yet to be in Smash, so it's basically impossible to be "sleeping on him."
If I'm wrong, feel free to tar and feather me. I just don't see an actual argument favoring his chances besides shaky rumors.
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
734
This may be controversial, but putting aside Halo vs NG (which isn't fair given the nature of their games), to me Master Chief is the icon for FPS reps out there. I know the series had seen better days after Bungie left, but the scale in which Halo dominated the FPS scene in the 2000s and how it transitioned into a global franchise is something else altogether.
It's hard to see anything else supersede that position anytime soon, and even big PC FPS with an identifiable icon (say Heavy/Gordon Freeman) doesn't seem to have held that much presence in the mainstream popularity.

Of course, making it to smash is a whole other matter altogether but in the very unlikely event Nintendo thinks that a FPS rep should be added it's got to be Halo. In my opinion, anyway.


I think you can fully understand Master Chief’s importance and still question his Smash chances
This suggests the opposite.




While they are talking about new games, it would be a very specific statement to make and then announce MCC half a year later.

Sometimes insiders are wrong or have outdated info. It happens. We've heard this rumor for months and months and still absolutely nothing. You can't make people just believe in spite of everything.

I wanted to bring this from my previous post where I edited:



If I'm wrong, feel free to tar and feather me. I just don't see an actual argument favoring his chances besides shaky rumors.
I 100% agree that there's really nothing pointing to Halo's chances, but saying that exclusivity is a big hurdle to smash entry is kind of questionable given Snake/Cloud/Joker.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
10,744
I 100% agree that there's really nothing pointing to Halo's chances, but saying that exclusivity is a big hurdle to smash entry is kind of questionable given Snake/Cloud/Joker.
I'd argue it's a bit different when you are talking about a first party IP of a rival company, particularly a flagship one like Halo. Banjo crossed the gap because of overwhelming fan demand and no real conflict of interest. If Halo games aren't on Switch, I just really don't see any reason for Nintendo to tell Sakurai "we want you to put Halo in Smash."
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,058
I’m not making any kind of argument about Chief’s chances one way or the other

I just think “people are sleeping on Master Chief because they don’t realize Halo is popular” is a real weird take
 
OP
OP
IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,021
I’m not making any kind of argument about Chief’s chances one way or the other

I just think “people are sleeping on Master Chief because they don’t realize Halo is popular” is a real weird take
Better take is there are some characters that would get in that not many people would talk about; or so. It's evidently happened before like Joker and Terry. So it could happens again when people are looking into wrong scopes of characters. I bet that there would be couple of characters that only few people would actually discussed or brought up.
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
734
I'd argue it's a bit different when you are talking about a first party IP of a rival company, particularly a flagship one like Halo. Banjo crossed the gap because of overwhelming fan demand and no real conflict of interest. If Halo games aren't on Switch, I just really don't see any reason for Nintendo to tell Sakurai "we want you to put Halo in Smash."
Oh I definitely think it hurts his chances slightly. But you would think that if it was such a big deal they probably won't even consider going to Microsoft (or even getting a playstation exclusive character or the whole gang of Cloud/Snake that Nintendo ultimately had to approve).

I’m not making any kind of argument about Chief’s chances one way or the other

I just think “people are sleeping on Master Chief because they don’t realize Halo is popular” is a real weird take
True.
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,367
I’m not making any kind of argument about Chief’s chances one way or the other

I just think “people are sleeping on Master Chief because they don’t realize Halo is popular” is a real weird take
You can have an idea of how popular something is second hand, in the periphery, without having experienced it first hand. But for people who grew up on Xbox Live, playing Zombies on Foundation into the wee morning hours... being imbedded in the Halo community during that time period is just something you had to have seen for yourself to understand.

As a side note, my original comment was not meant to somehow imply Halo is more deserving than Ninja Gaiden for Smash. Ryu Hayabusa is happening as well. As others have pointed out, there are other factors to consider, such as legacy. I just thought the post I was replying to was an amusing anecdotal display of the sheer magnitude of the Halo community’s collective unconscious.
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
1,197
I'm still waiting for our first gacha rep. It's time for Gran or Katalina from Granblue, Mash from Fate/Grand Order, or even Fjorm or Eir from Fire Emblem Heroes. Make those Smash fans go crazy in shock and horror.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
10,744
Oh I definitely think it hurts his chances slightly. But you would think that if it was such a big deal they probably won't even consider going to Microsoft (or even getting a playstation exclusive character or the whole gang of Cloud/Snake that Nintendo ultimately had to approve).
There are certain Microsoft IPs that they clearly are keen to share, but only in certain capacities. Banjo is in Smash but not Switch. Minecraft is on everything. It's conditional, but nothing I've seen indicates there is a degree of comfort of Halo content on Switch on Nintendo's part to the point of letting Chief into Smash. Cloud/Snake not being on more Nintendo consoles has more to do with the nature of the great third party exile from Nintendo consoles in the transition from the fourth to fifth generation of video games (and even FF7 is finally on Nintendo now).
 

Hailinel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,758
Oh I definitely think it hurts his chances slightly. But you would think that if it was such a big deal they probably won't even consider going to Microsoft (or even getting a playstation exclusive character or the whole gang of Cloud/Snake that Nintendo ultimately had to approve).
The thing there is that Banjo is a special, weird case because he used to literally belong to Nintendo.

Characters like Cloud and Snake are only PlayStation characters in that their most iconic appearances happened to be on PlayStation consoles, but both characters come from franchises with Nintendo presence (and in the case of Final Fantasy, franchise origins). Nintendo isn't ever going to call up Sony and be like, "Yo, we want to put Kratos in Smash."
 

Xwing

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,367
The thing there is that Banjo is a special, weird case because he used to literally belong to Nintendo.

Characters like Cloud and Snake are only PlayStation characters in that their most iconic appearances happened to be on PlayStation consoles, but both characters come from franchises with Nintendo presence (and in the case of Final Fantasy, franchise origins). Nintendo isn't ever going to call up Sony and be like, "Yo, we want to put Kratos in Smash."
But once the Ape Escape Recaptured Trilogy gets released on Switch, they’ll be calling up SIE and saying, “Yo, we want to put Spike in Smash.”
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
734
There are certain Microsoft IPs that they clearly are keen to share, but only in certain capacities. Banjo is in Smash but not Switch. Minecraft is on everything. It's conditional, but nothing I've seen indicates there is a degree of comfort of Halo content on Switch on Nintendo's part to the point of letting Chief into Smash. Cloud/Snake not being on more Nintendo consoles has more to do with the nature of the great third party exile from Nintendo consoles in the transition from the fourth to fifth generation of video games (and even FF7 is finally on Nintendo now).
That's fair. I just feel that with the warming ties and the exclusive ports coming over its no longer as farfetched. That is if Nintendo is willing.

The thing there is that Banjo is a special, weird case because he used to literally belong to Nintendo.

Characters like Cloud and Snake are only PlayStation characters in that their most iconic appearances happened to be on PlayStation consoles, but both characters come from franchises with Nintendo presence (and in the case of Final Fantasy, franchise origins). Nintendo isn't ever going to call up Sony and be like, "Yo, we want to put Kratos in Smash."
My point was moreso that if Microsoft really was as big of an issue, Nintendo wouldn't even think about going to them. If there was a huge barrier blocking Microsoft IPs in the past, think of it as it getting reduced significantly.
It really boils down to whether Nintendo wants to (which I admitted was very unlikely to begin with).
 

Giga Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,957
Smash 4’s custom moves were already close enough to gacha hell
That game's entire loot system was gacha hell: the trophies, the Mii costumes and hats, the custom equipment, and of course the custom moves. I do not understand for the life of me why you could get duplicate custom moves but not duplicate Mii accessories. You should NOT be getting duplicate custom moves. They only exist once, just like Mii accessories!
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,382
The first character in Fighter's Pass 2 should be Ryu from Breath of Fire if only to hear how many different ways can Mobius Xander say the same name in different intonations.