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Where do you think Challenger #5 would be revealed at?

  • During Terry's Promo Video

    Votes: 79 23.5%
  • During the Game Award

    Votes: 194 57.7%
  • During the next Nintendo Direct

    Votes: 44 13.1%
  • During a special stand-alone live stream

    Votes: 19 5.7%

  • Total voters
    336
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Crashman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,100
Doomslayer would be a good pick for a VGA character. And while I dont know well Doom all yoo well, I'd prefer someone like him than the frequent suggestions for characters who's primary association with Nintendo is that they are big on rival systems (Sora, Crash, MC, Spyro, Lara).

I'd also really like Geno finally getting in. I'm not going to get my hopes up though. The Grinch leak burned me, even if Banjo did make it in.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
The original leak of Ken, which this leak wants to harken back to, originally showed us... Ken. Instead of Incineroar, in development Plant, any part of WoL, any new Assist Trophies, etc.

We got an echo that everyone was already sure was coming.
The circumstances are completely different here. There's only a skeleton crew working on DLC, so if this is real, the person who recorded the footage must be very close to the development of the game, and I don't know why they'd risk being fired or worse just to leak a few Mii costumes. There's never been a visual leak of Smash DLC before for this reason -- only hearsay from friends of friends.

It also just seems really strange for someone with access to upcoming DLC to deliberately set up a fight between Miis wearing hats associated with highly speculated characters. It's too on the nose. Everyone is making the obvious connections that the leaker intended.
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,183
I think the important thing to always keep in mind is there aren't actually rules about what gets into Smash. Past patterns won't always repeat themselves and past precedent can be contradicted by the future

It's more fun to watch the rules getting broken over and over so I don't mind to see some fans sticks with the rules, and set their logic around it because it's easier for them to stick with it. And it would be funny seeing those rules potentially shattered right front of their eyes.

Sometime it takes long time for some rules to just dies. Realistic firearms rule finally died when Joker comes forward with it.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,231
Rochester, New York
The circumstances are completely different here. There's only a skeleton crew working on DLC, so if this is real, the person who recorded the footage must be very close to the development of the game, and I don't know why they'd risk being fired or worse just to leak a few Mii costumes. There's never been a visual leak of Smash DLC before for this reason -- only hearsay from friends of friends.

It also just seems really strange for someone with access to upcoming DLC to deliberately set up a fight between Miis wearing hats associated with highly speculated characters. It's too on the nose. Everyone is making the obvious connections that the leaker intended.
But how was this even made if it was faked? Ultimate modding isn't really at a place where this would be possible and these models are professional quality, much higher quality than even the best Brawl/Ultimate mods and those scenes are far more robust.
 

Deleted member 56266

Account closed at user request
Banned
Apr 25, 2019
7,291
Leaning towards real only because of the video evidence + mii modding not being a thing in Ultimate. Entirely possible this leaker just "figured it out" though for sure. Also, why are people comparing this to the shit Grinch leak? This one has a video, while that was a blurry picture.
 

Strittles

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762


Ok I'm convinced. Team Real.


So the question I have regarding this "leak" is: does it actually make sense that someone or a group of people could have figured out how to mod mii costumes into Ultimate in secret while the modding community is still saying it's not possible? Like what makes modding mii costumes currently "not there"? I have no experience in modding so I'm just wondering if it is something as simple as figuring it out in secret or is it truly not feasible at the moment. I can't really believe or deny the rumor until I have a more technical understanding of this.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
But how was this even made if it was faked? Ultimate modding isn't really at a place where this would be possible and these models are professional quality, much higher quality than even the best Brawl/Ultimate mods and those scenes are far more robust.
The footage is so poor that I couldn't reasonably assert these models as being "professional quality." This is exactly what people were saying about the Grinch leak -- that some super blurry drawings were somehow too good to be fake. Again, I know the talent is out there, so visuals alone are never going to make or break a leak for me.
 

wildvine47

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,094
As someone in the Ultimate modding community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods. And in the video, the hats are on two different Mii types, meaning they'd have to do that whole process twice.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.
 

TubaZef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,565
Brazil
Doomslayer would be a good pick for a VGA character. And while I dont know well Doom all yoo well, I'd prefer someone like him than the frequent suggestions for characters who's primary association with Nintendo is that they are big on rival systems (Sora, Crash, MC, Spyro, Lara).

I'd also really like Geno finally getting in. I'm not going to get my hopes up though. The Grinch leak burned me, even if Banjo did make it in.

I think Crash would be cool exactly because of that, it would be like having one big character from each console. But in a way the same can be applied to Doomslayer as a "PC character".

The circumstances are completely different here. There's only a skeleton crew working on DLC, so if this is real, the person who recorded the footage must be very close to the development of the game, and I don't know why they'd risk being fired or worse just to leak a few Mii costumes. There's never been a visual leak of Smash DLC before for this reason -- only hearsay from friends of friends.

It also just seems really strange for someone with access to upcoming DLC to deliberately set up a fight between Miis wearing hats associated with highly speculated characters. It's too on the nose. Everyone is making the obvious connections that the leaker intended.

I'm guessing it's a friends of friends situation. Someone working in the game took an early build to a friends house to show him and that person passed it on.
What's obvious to me is that the video showing exactly these hats was a big tease. So, if the leaker is friends with someone in development, maybe the leaker showed just this because thought it was safer than showing characters? Maybe the dev thought his superiors wouldn't mind about hats being leaked and told the leaker it was ok.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,762
But how was this even made if it was faked? Ultimate modding isn't really at a place where this would be possible and these models are professional quality, much higher quality than even the best Brawl/Ultimate mods and those scenes are far more robust.
Either a) someone figured it out
or b) someone's really good at After Effects, it's not like we can see discrepancies that easily based on the cam footage, and we can't even tell if the models are all that high quality either.

I actually had to double check at one point in the footage where a shadow cast on Mallow seemed to be a bit weird but you really can't tell/replicate on a stage as random in its platform layouts as Yggdrasil.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,673
As someone in the Ultimate modding, community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters, themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.
Interesting, didn't know about the filesize limit. In the likelihood that this is a fake, I definitely would imagine it being the work of multiple individuals.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,378
Who are people that would plausibly have access to a dev build of the game at this point? Would it all be internal at Bamco? Would there be QA testers?

I can imagine a build that includes, say, Terry, along with some Mii costumes of characters they've started working on but that are months away. Like, deal was reached for Geno, he's not in a playable state, but the SMRPG costumes are all modeled so they're already implemented.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,231
Rochester, New York
As someone in the Ultimate modding community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods. And in the video, the hats are on two different Mii types, meaning they'd have to do that whole process twice.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.
Well that's interesting. That would probably explain why all the Ultimate skin mods are kind of... lacking at this point.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,424
As someone in the Ultimate modding community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods. And in the video, the hats are on two different Mii types, meaning they'd have to do that whole process twice.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.
This is really interesting to read. I really hope modding reaches brawls point one day.

Or at least smash 4's
 

Strittles

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
As someone in the Ultimate modding community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods. And in the video, the hats are on two different Mii types, meaning they'd have to do that whole process twice.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.

Ah thanks for the insight. It helps answer the question I had above. Still not sure where I fall on this, but I'll keep what you said in mind.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
If this is the next update with Terry that's coming out this month, then people outside of Japan should have it already for testing and localization.
If this is real then this is the most plausible scenario to me. I don't think we'd have footage of Mii costumes that are months away from being released.
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,183
As someone in the Ultimate modding community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods. And in the video, the hats are on two different Mii types, meaning they'd have to do that whole process twice.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.

It's so weird because I know few modders but I haven't contact all of them yet but one of them said of course, Switch is harder than Wii U but importing models into Ultimate isn't impossible; which is weird because couple of modders trying to claim that it's "impossible."

And the video isn't that great in term of quality.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,231
Rochester, New York
It's so weird because I know few modders but I haven't contact all of them yet but one of them said of course, Switch is harder than Wii U but importing models into Ultimate isn't impossible; which is weird because couple of modders trying to claim that it's "impossible."

And the video isn't that great in term of quality.
From what I understand, it's entirely possible to import models into Ultimate (there are quite a lot of model import character skin mods), but importing models for Mii hats isn't possible, currently, and is actually pretty complicated due to how Mii Hats work in Ultimate
 

Jave

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,822
Chile
As someone in the Ultimate modding community, this personally has me convinced.

The big thing about it is just how differently Mii stuff works in Ultimate vs. Smash 4. In Smash 4, Mii outfits directly scaled with the size of the Mii in question, which was a quick and easy way to make sure they all looked decent. However, this wasn't obviously the best solution, as it meant that a lot of Mii costume parts would clip into each other pretty badly and not look great as a result.

In Ultimate, they changed that. There's now a specific sizing algorithm for each individual Mii piece in order to prevent that issue from occurring again, at least as frequently. That algorithm is hard-coded into the Mii characters themselves, meaning that in order to find it, you'd have to dig through the entirety of each Mii's code to even get started on Mii costume mods. And in the video, the hats are on two different Mii types, meaning they'd have to do that whole process twice.

In addition to that, there's a notorious filesize problem that's severely limited Ultimate modding so far. If a modded file is bigger than the base file it's replacing, the game will crash upon trying to load that file. So if you have a 2 megabyte file and replace it with a 2.1 megabyte file, the game crashes. This is notable because, without the specific tools Sakurai and co. use to compress these files, modders have a very hard time shrinking their high-quality mods down under that limit. That in of itself is why Ultimate modding is so slow. Now, consider the fact that Mii costume files are tiny compared to actual fighter files, and it gives serious credence to these high-quality modeled hats. If they're mods, they're not only better modeled than any Smash 4 Mii costume, they're also several leagues smaller in terms of filesize in order for them to even be able to work in Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm #teamreal on this one.
Woah, that's interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Does this also mean that any Mii costume from Smash 4 needs to be redone from scratch to be included in Ultimate? (Sorry if this question feels dumb, I know nothing about Smash modding)
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,183
From what I understand, it's entirely possible to import models into Ultimate (there are quite a lot of model import character skin mods), but importing models for Mii hats isn't possible, currently, and is actually pretty complicated due to how Mii Hats work in Ultimate

What if you import Mii model instead of Mii hats?
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,485
So it's looking more like Terry is going to be after SS right? (If that's the case 5th DLC Charcter is more likely to be at GA)
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Well a bomb certainly dropped while I was asleep.

Imagine if it's real but those costumes are all we got.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,948
My instance is that the mii costumes are real but that doesn't mean the characters are in the game. I think its just that, they're costumes.

"But would they licence the character just for a costume" i think yeah, they would. I really never doubt nintendo and sakurai.
 

NabiscoFelt

One Winged Slayer
Member
Aug 15, 2019
7,635
I think the leak is real, but I'm unsure if it has any implication on Doomguy/Geno. Maybe they need the costumes early for a reveal trailer? That's the only explanation I can think of that would lend to them being leaked well before any potentially associated characters' release
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,754
Woah. I just caught up in the leak and this is wild. A decent amount of franchises got introduced as Mii Hats so it could mean nothing for DLC 5, but I think DOOM is a little too big a franchise to be just a Mii hat. I cant believe Doomguy in Smash is actually gonna happen.

Geno is still a Mii costume I bet
I wouldnt be too surprised if he was the first non FP character though
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
I think the leak is real, but I'm unsure if it has any implication on Doomguy/Geno. Maybe they need the costumes early for a reveal trailer? That's the only explanation I can think of that would lend to them being leaked well before any potentially associated characters' release
I could it ending up with Doomslayer being real (no Bethesda or iD game's in Smash yet), and Mallow Costume going with the Geno costume returning from Smash For.
 

V_ac

Avenger
Jul 2, 2018
3,798
Woah. I just caught up in the leak and this is wild. A decent amount of franchises got introduced as Mii Hats so it could mean nothing for DLC 5, but I think DOOM is a little too big a franchise to be just a Mii hat. I cant believe Doomguy in Smash is actually gonna happen.

Geno is still a Mii costume I bet
I wouldnt be too surprised if he was the first non FP character though
Is just getting a Doom Mii Hat all that different from getting just a Tekken and Monster Hunter Mii Outfit for Smash 4?
 
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