-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 9 | New Decade, Same Old Debates
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
Mega Man Battle Network must be really forgettable nowadays when everybody forgets it was a Mii costume in Smash 4 but remembers X.
It's his binary counting they froze on.
I remember man. I remember.
Funny how they used Greninja as the Mii's opponent in the clip, since he has Bass.EXE head fins.
I'm curious about what people are thinking after the Volume 2 announcement; so I have three simple questions:
- Do you think we'll see a Vol. 3?
- Do you think they'll fill up the current internal slot limit before the end of post-launch support (four more fighters beyond Vol. 2)?
- Which is the more likely form for those remaining characters in the chance that they do happen: unique fighters or echo fighters?
I feel ya, but I can't help be be amused at how it's being thrown around right now when the big hyped character just a day ago was Dante.
Volume 2 final character is expected to release by December 2021. That's an average of three characters per year.
By then the Switch 2 or next Nintendo console will be late in development/in the works. So I assume this is the end.
The team was severely cut. So now it's just a small team working on Smash DLC. So there are probably other projects they are being moved on to.
I think it's perfectly fine for people to be disappointed as long as they stay polite.
Ending the DLC pack on another Fire Emblem is not really most people hoped.
Wanting a different character is fine, like I don't give a shit about Banjo. But the fallout about here is just salt.
And it isn't about 'Banjo being bigger' when he last game was over a decade ago.
I personally don't really care for either and I'm happy for Fire Emblem fans. I'm just not sure if this gives people confidence in the next challenger pack
I just realised that the best thing of having a December 2021 date as the finish for the Second Pass is that we will get balance patches until that late.
I'm going to use this quote as a launchpad for something I've been thinking about a while...
So my thing is, I've played 3 Fire Emblem games, Awakening, Path Of Radiance, and Sacred Stones. I didn't finish any of them, I got the furthers in SS. They're fine games, but not my cup of tea for reasons I won't get into.
But it is hard to not feel a little spiteful when Nintendo keeps using Smash as a venue to advertise these games, through paid DLC. Corrin was a tipping point for me last game where I half-jokingly said I would never play another Fire Emblem game. And now they're adding Fire Emblem characters before the game even goes gold. If you don't like Fire Emblem, you are inundated with this series that has done well on retail releases post-Awakening, has a strong mobile presence, is a growing series, but has not really entered the pantheon of gaming. There is no science or magic formula to why Smash series get a proportional amount of representation. But it becomes difficult to just roll over and accept it after a certain point. Nintendo is a business, and Sakurai clearly has a love for Fire Emblem, but these tail-end DLC Fire Emblem characters consistently feel poorly timed and deflate the hype cycle. I really doubt this was the reaction Nintendo was hoping for. If Blyeth was added in a season 2, after Three Houses came out and was genuinely well-received, I wouldn't feel this strongly about it.
Blyeth was probably the one character they could have added that would legitimately disappoint me because the circumstances of their addition - being added before their game even came out and being the only Nintendo character in a Pass full of third party characters - strikes me as very cynical. It's also difficult to voice this opinion without being generalized as a whiny, entitled child who hates Fire Emblem and is throwing a tantrum because it wasn't the character they wanted. I wanted to be open minded about whoever this character was. I didn't particularly care who they added after Banjo. But I feel on some level it's important to remember that this is a product they're selling us, and not every person vocally upset with this is harassing Sakurai on Twitter over it.
There is a weird tendency in fandom, but especially in Smash fandom, to distance ourselves from the "toxic" and "bad" fandoms to a performative extreme. If we aren't constantly condemning the toxic fans and constantly saying how the loudest fans are harassing people, somehow we are condoning it. We like to point and make fun of the fans who are disappointed they didn't get the character they wanted, or are upset at the character that did get in. I am just as guilty of this as anyone. But I feel like longterm, this isn't a healthy model for discourse. It turns discussion tribalistic by nature. I think we're too caught up worrying about the bad and toxic fans. That isn't to say we shouldn't call out toxic behavior when we see it. Some people in this thread, and others, definitely acted out of line, regardless of their opinion on Blyeth. But when I see comments like "the Smash fandom deserves this," "Sakurai should ignore the fans," it's hard to not feel a little bit like we are much more interested in gatekeeping the discourse and preserving the status quo of a parasocial relationship to a game director and the product he's selling us above all else. Nobody here should be okay with Sakurai being harassed on Twitter or fans being at each others' throats over a video game character. That should be a very obvious stance that doesn't need to be re-established.
While constant negativity isn't healthy either, I think it's okay to let people feel a little raw and disappointed and shitpost in the first couple of days. People will get over it. They always do. People were in full sky-is-falling mode after Kencineroar + Plant, but Joker's announcement brought back the hype for many. If people can be jumping for joy when long-awaited characters like Banjo & Kazooie are added, flooding the forum with screams of joy, I think it's okay to allow the opposite to happen. I trust most posters here to, eventually, lick their wounds and self-moderate. I personally have no interest in publicly wallowing in my own disappointment - most of it I didn't share publicly.
To answer your question, I gave Fire Emblem a try three times and it didn't click. While I have reason to believe Three Houses might be different, it's hard to not just be a little bitter at a series that Nintendo and Sakurai (either or) constantly wants to advertise to us through paid DLC when other Nintendo series don't get this special treatment. Perhaps that is unreasonable to an extent, but I wonder how much this advertisement is actually working. To be sure, it won't hurt DLC sales. Most people who wanted to buy the Fighters Pass already did. And to see such open hostility towards this character, via social media statistics, it's hard to not feel like this is backfiring to some extent. It definitely isn't engendering me to the series at all, albeit through no fault of its own. I would be interested in surveys and statistic seeing how effective these marketing strategies are. But as I said earlier, I suspect this isn't the reaction Nintendo was hoping for. Either that, or they knew this would happen and put Blyeth at the end on purpose, which is again, very cynical. So if Blyeth didn't turn me off of Three Houses, it didn't help either.
None of it really matters in the long run. This is a mascot fighting game on an electronic toy. But I think some of the back-and-forth on this subject could be understood better if we try to not weaponize our disappointment, whether that is our disappointment in a video game or disappointment at how others are acting.
As a final note, I dislike the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument. Many people like to have a full roster for competitive's sake (multiplayer, tournaments, etc.), or also for other reasons, like stages, music, and Spirit Boards. I feel there is a need to talk down to people who are disappointed, dismissing grievances in a way that only fuels the hostility. We're here to have fun, right?
I'm probably going to take a break from this thread, but I wanted to leave you all with this, and I hope that we will calm down as the next character approaches, whether that's one month away or six.
So my thing is, I've played 3 Fire Emblem games, Awakening, Path Of Radiance, and Sacred Stones. I didn't finish any of them, I got the furthers in SS. They're fine games, but not my cup of tea for reasons I won't get into.
But it is hard to not feel a little spiteful when Nintendo keeps using Smash as a venue to advertise these games, through paid DLC. Corrin was a tipping point for me last game where I half-jokingly said I would never play another Fire Emblem game. And now they're adding Fire Emblem characters before the game even goes gold. If you don't like Fire Emblem, you are inundated with this series that has done well on retail releases post-Awakening, has a strong mobile presence, is a growing series, but has not really entered the pantheon of gaming. There is no science or magic formula to why Smash series get a proportional amount of representation. But it becomes difficult to just roll over and accept it after a certain point. Nintendo is a business, and Sakurai clearly has a love for Fire Emblem, but these tail-end DLC Fire Emblem characters consistently feel poorly timed and deflate the hype cycle. I really doubt this was the reaction Nintendo was hoping for. If Blyeth was added in a season 2, after Three Houses came out and was genuinely well-received, I wouldn't feel this strongly about it.
Blyeth was probably the one character they could have added that would legitimately disappoint me because the circumstances of their addition - being added before their game even came out and being the only Nintendo character in a Pass full of third party characters - strikes me as very cynical. It's also difficult to voice this opinion without being generalized as a whiny, entitled child who hates Fire Emblem and is throwing a tantrum because it wasn't the character they wanted. I wanted to be open minded about whoever this character was. I didn't particularly care who they added after Banjo. But I feel on some level it's important to remember that this is a product they're selling us, and not every person vocally upset with this is harassing Sakurai on Twitter over it.
There is a weird tendency in fandom, but especially in Smash fandom, to distance ourselves from the "toxic" and "bad" fandoms to a performative extreme. If we aren't constantly condemning the toxic fans and constantly saying how the loudest fans are harassing people, somehow we are condoning it. We like to point and make fun of the fans who are disappointed they didn't get the character they wanted, or are upset at the character that did get in. I am just as guilty of this as anyone. But I feel like longterm, this isn't a healthy model for discourse. It turns discussion tribalistic by nature. I think we're too caught up worrying about the bad and toxic fans. That isn't to say we shouldn't call out toxic behavior when we see it. Some people in this thread, and others, definitely acted out of line, regardless of their opinion on Blyeth. But when I see comments like "the Smash fandom deserves this," "Sakurai should ignore the fans," it's hard to not feel a little bit like we are much more interested in gatekeeping the discourse and preserving the status quo of a parasocial relationship to a game director and the product he's selling us above all else. Nobody here should be okay with Sakurai being harassed on Twitter or fans being at each others' throats over a video game character. That should be a very obvious stance that doesn't need to be re-established.
While constant negativity isn't healthy either, I think it's okay to let people feel a little raw and disappointed and shitpost in the first couple of days. People will get over it. They always do. People were in full sky-is-falling mode after Kencineroar + Plant, but Joker's announcement brought back the hype for many. If people can be jumping for joy when long-awaited characters like Banjo & Kazooie are added, flooding the forum with screams of joy, I think it's okay to allow the opposite to happen. I trust most posters here to, eventually, lick their wounds and self-moderate. I personally have no interest in publicly wallowing in my own disappointment - most of it I didn't share publicly.
To answer your question, I gave Fire Emblem a try three times and it didn't click. While I have reason to believe Three Houses might be different, it's hard to not just be a little bitter at a series that Nintendo and Sakurai (either or) constantly wants to advertise to us through paid DLC when other Nintendo series don't get this special treatment. Perhaps that is unreasonable to an extent, but I wonder how much this advertisement is actually working. To be sure, it won't hurt DLC sales. Most people who wanted to buy the Fighters Pass already did. And to see such open hostility towards this character, via social media statistics, it's hard to not feel like this is backfiring to some extent. It definitely isn't engendering me to the series at all, albeit through no fault of its own. I would be interested in surveys and statistic seeing how effective these marketing strategies are. But as I said earlier, I suspect this isn't the reaction Nintendo was hoping for. Either that, or they knew this would happen and put Blyeth at the end on purpose, which is again, very cynical. So if Blyeth didn't turn me off of Three Houses, it didn't help either.
None of it really matters in the long run. This is a mascot fighting game on an electronic toy. But I think some of the back-and-forth on this subject could be understood better if we try to not weaponize our disappointment, whether that is our disappointment in a video game or disappointment at how others are acting.
As a final note, I dislike the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument. Many people like to have a full roster for competitive's sake (multiplayer, tournaments, etc.), or also for other reasons, like stages, music, and Spirit Boards. I feel there is a need to talk down to people who are disappointed, dismissing grievances in a way that only fuels the hostility. We're here to have fun, right?
I'm probably going to take a break from this thread, but I wanted to leave you all with this, and I hope that we will calm down as the next character approaches, whether that's one month away or six.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- All unique. Echo fighters are done until further notice.
Gonna be honest, I have a hard time believing people when they say they wouldn't be as upset if Byleth came in a different slot. They'd still be a Fire Emblem character, they'd still be an "anime swordsman". If they came out as the first Fighter of Pass 2, the reaction would be "That's how you're gonna start off the Pass? Guess I'll skip this one". If it was in the middle or the end, people would be mad because they already bought the Pass.
If it makes sense for Byleth to be in at any time, it doesn't matter what slot it's in beyond whether you paid for it already. And if you're upset that you got a character you didn't want in a Fighter Pass that you bought blindly, you have no one to blame but yourself.
If it makes sense for Byleth to be in at any time, it doesn't matter what slot it's in beyond whether you paid for it already. And if you're upset that you got a character you didn't want in a Fighter Pass that you bought blindly, you have no one to blame but yourself.
People sometimes forget themselves and act like Smash is a higher institution and Sakurai owes it to gaming culture to pick the right characters. It's not that high stakes. Ultimately it's just Sakurai picking a few characters he likes, there's not much science there.
There are no "wrong" picks.
There are no "wrong" picks.
In a Fire Emblem direct in January of 2017, the then unnamed new Fire Emblem game was given a planned release date of 2018.
The E3 2018 trailer said it was due in Spring 2019.
It came out in July 2019.
While i don't think getting a SMT charcter is likely - it is a bit odd how Persona didn't have a single reference to it - not even Spirits...i am just saying it's possible
To Mekanos, I think that it's 100% fine to be disappointed in not getting what you want, but I do feel that it's important to note that 1 character doesn't make or break the roster inclusions, and that the pass is aimed towards trying to cover as many bases as possible. Smash fans liking Banjo doesn't necessarily translate to broad appeal outside of smash communities, neither does Byleth's negative reception mean that everyone wants to dump on the game.
Admittedly I do have characters I do not want to see, but I feel that it's important to realize it and try your best not to be negative because of tribalism. It's something I want to work on and be better in.
2. No, see above.
3. Definitely unique, but we could see alt swaps aka Hero alongside the unique characters.
Admittedly I do have characters I do not want to see, but I feel that it's important to realize it and try your best not to be negative because of tribalism. It's something I want to work on and be better in.
1. No, 6 characters is too weird in a pack and this is over 2 years. I suspect we're done after this for good barring some kind of miracle push.
2. No, see above.
3. Definitely unique, but we could see alt swaps aka Hero alongside the unique characters.
I can't play a character that is not fun for me. As Reggie famously said: if it's not fun, what's the point?
So, moveset is prioritary for me. I don't care if the character is low tier or high tier... I mean, I play Inkling and Bowser Jr. But the moveset has to be my thing if I am going to play that character. If I am not having fun with it, I won't play it.
Banjo is the character I like more as a character from the DLC, but I don't have fun with it so I don't play it. On the other hand I didn't care for Terry too much but his moveset is pretty fun and I play it casually.
Hard to predict because 12 post launch characters is already a lot for Smash. And end of 2021 is in a little less than 2 years, so who knows what Nintendo/Sakurai will want to do at this point. But anyway I'll try to predict.
1) I'm going to say yes. Depends on how well the 2d pass does. I expect it to sell maybe a little less, at least at launch in comparison to the first pass, since the game has now released a year ago, so I think it's inevitable now that some people who aren't huge fans of Smash won't buy the 2d pass. But it'll sell very well, so I expect a third season, maybe with a bit less characters.
2) Hardest to predict. I'm going to say it'll end when the current internal slot limit is filled. Just because I feel 4 is a good amount for season 3. 5-6-4, 15 characters minus Piranha Plant, seems like a good amount of post launch characters.
3) Unique characters. I don't expect any echo fighters. They'll save ressources and time for focusing on unique newcommers.
An idea:
Urshifu, the karate bear Pokemon, is the legendary of the first part of the Pokemon DLC, which arrives in June, the same month as E3. With its stance change gimmick, and Gigantamax forms for a Final Smash, perhaps Urshifu could be DLC Fighter #6, unveiled at E3 to promote Pokemon like Hero was unveiled to promote Builders 2 and DQ11.
Urshifu, the karate bear Pokemon, is the legendary of the first part of the Pokemon DLC, which arrives in June, the same month as E3. With its stance change gimmick, and Gigantamax forms for a Final Smash, perhaps Urshifu could be DLC Fighter #6, unveiled at E3 to promote Pokemon like Hero was unveiled to promote Builders 2 and DQ11.
And surely SMTV will release within the next two years...
...
I could also see Jack Frost getting "premium mii costume" treatment. But that would bring only one music track, though.
Nobody entertained my boredom but I stick with PT 2 as the most likely.
Why? it is kind of funny :) I mostly used it to refer to the semi-realistic pretty boys of that style (of which 4 of the 5 DLC were)
Yeah i could definetly see either happening though i guess Mii Costume for JF would be fine
How likely is it that Nintendo/Sakurai's plans were changed pretty lately regarding Smash DLC reveals?
It just seems too odd to announce Byleth now, as fighter #5, like this.
I can't help but feel like they had either too much trouble with the planned character (like, still not in a presentable state of development), or something else like they planned Tracer but changed the order due to the Blizzard controversy.
What do you think?
It just seems too odd to announce Byleth now, as fighter #5, like this.
I can't help but feel like they had either too much trouble with the planned character (like, still not in a presentable state of development), or something else like they planned Tracer but changed the order due to the Blizzard controversy.
What do you think?
You can believe what you want.
Nintendo doesn't care about the Blizzard controversy.
That Tracer theory never really made sense, and it especially doesn't now thanks to the Byleth presentation. As Sakurai said, he played Three Houses ahead of it's release to start working on Byleth early enough to get them done within their deadline; something he would've done months before the Blizzard controversy. Simply put: Byleth can't be a substitute for Tracer, the timing doesn't match up at all.
I say Tracer specifically because I can't rule out the possibility that a different character was subbed out earlier in the year; but I still doubt that.
Some SMT protagonists could also be costumes if that happened, like Flynn sword fighter, Demonica Marine gunner, Demi-field brawler, etc.
But I do want an actual character, not mii costumes.
Eh... I'm not seeing a Galar Trainer. I think they would want to utilize Dynamax/Gigantamax as a final smash, and they would have to focus on one Pokemon to do it. If a Galar Pokemon made it in, I think one with a Gigantamax form is more likely. Toxtricity seems to have story-significance that has yet to be touched upon what with the statues of both forms present in Hulbury and their combined Gigantamax form not obtainable yet.
I also think Pokemon Trainer is a very special case that shouldn't be repeated lightly. Pokemon Trainer works because the first generation starters are the most iconic and each Pokemon fills their respective roles perfectly. I know it sounds arbitrary, but arbitrary thoughts probably run through Sakurai's head too, like how he won't put BOTW Zelda in Smash because... reasons. Anyway, I would only want them to do the Trainer gimmick again if they do something truly unique, such as a villain trainer, specifically Giovanni. That would be sick. Rhyhorn/Persian/Nidoqueen.
Last edited:
Z/Mega isn't likely to dictate much. Triple Finish isn't even a real move, just 3 sort of iconic moves at once. Mirroring the original generation with the newest would be pretty cool. (much cooler than baby-legs purple diaper monster!)
3 completely different characters is unique in itself, and the starters are generally super popular. A villain/TR trainer is cool, but having both Ryhorn and Nidoqueen is kind of boring with 2 giant pokemon (and Meowth is much more popular/iconic than persian).
Last edited:
I have to say; having six characters over two years (and knowing that first-party characters can be part of that lineup) is making me go back to the drawing board with my predictions. There are so many characters and franchises that can individually viewed as possible or likely, and so many characters that i'd want to see happen, but it's hard to narrow my selections down to six while striking a good balance between fan favourites, popular picks and some first-party stars.
- Status