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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 9 | New Decade, Same Old Debates

Which event do you think we would see 6th character reveal at?

  • General Direct (in Feb)

    Votes: 93 25.8%

  • General Direct (in March)

    Votes: 45 12.5%

  • E3

    Votes: 173 47.9%

  • Random Smash Presentation before E3

    Votes: 50 13.9%
  • Total voters
    361
  • Poll closed .
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TMaakkonen

TMaakkonen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,747
Many are disappointed, but really what can happen?

If Sakurai & Nintendo sees this as a backlash, what can they do? They have selected FP2 entirely, so they wont change that at all. What can they do? In a twisted way, if Sakurai feels like he disappointed western fans and wants to make up that somehow, he cant do anything. He cant add fighter nilly Willy. He might be more interested to put more western Mii Costumes & Spirit Events, which might leave to more frustration like with RE.

Obviously they might be just planning to just move on, let this just happen, but what could actually done to address this. This is most disliked Smash announcement isnt it?
 
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,763
TheDinoman said:
I dunno, do we think Konami is a lock for Vol. 2 too? They negiotated for a Goemon outfit out of the blue.
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We don't know how long back those negotiations stretch. It's possible it was way before a second pass was confirmed, and while yes, one could assume that a Mii Costume is easier to negotiate, it doesn't preclude the idea that making them is probably a secondary process that could've been procedural.
 
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Grapezard said:
I hope you're all ready for the intense droughts, because I'm not.
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Sawyer

Sawyer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,234
So the surprise for Byleth's classic mode at the end has to be Palutena showing up right?
Maybe turning into Rathalos even.
 
Vidiot

Vidiot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,456
The long stretches we'll have to go between characters is gonna make getting a character you don't particularly care for even worse.
 
Ryce

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
I've been going through the results of my DLC prediction contest, and unfortunately nobody was able to correctly name all four characters, which was specified as a requirement for receiving the $60 prize. Practically everyone got at least one character, and tons of people got two characters. Nobody was technically able to name three characters -- there would be two runners-up if I let Erdrick count for Hero, but then that wouldn't be fair to the few participants who explicitly named Hero, which was a much more challenging guess back in June.

I have an eShop card ready to go, but it just doesn't feel right declaring someone the winner of a prediction contest for being arguably 50% correct. The rules explicitly state that a winner isn't guaranteed, but I still feel bad about how this turned out. I'm not sure what to do. I really anticipated a clearer outcome.
 
Apopheniac

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
"Dimitri - Five Years Later (Fire Emblem)" imples a Five Years Later promoted Spirit for the Dimitri not from Fire Emblem (I think the bear from Zelda?)
 
V_ac

V_ac

Avenger
Jul 2, 2018
3,798
Apopheniac said:
"Dimitri - Five Years Later (Fire Emblem)" imples a Five Years Later promoted Spirit for the Dimitri not from Fire Emblem (I think the bear from Zelda?)
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I imagine they just carried the (Fire Emblem) bit over for consistency, but it should have been put before the " - Five Years Later" part.
 
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Ryce said:
I've been going through the results of my DLC prediction contest, and unfortunately nobody was able to correctly name all four characters, which was specified as a requirement for receiving the $60 prize. Practically everyone got at least one character, and tons of people got two characters. Nobody was technically able to name three characters -- there would be two runners-up if I let Erdrick count for Hero, but then that wouldn't be fair to the few participants who explicitly named Hero, which was a much more challenging guess back in June.

I have an eShop card ready to go, but it just doesn't feel right declaring someone the winner of a prediction contest for being arguably 50% correct. The rules explicitly state that a winner isn't guaranteed, but I still feel bad about how this turned out. I'm not sure what to do. I really anticipated a clearer outcome.
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The best solution is to just give me the prize.
 
cdigs

cdigs

Member
Apr 4, 2019
782
xaM said:
BIG N' BOLD HOT TAKE: I think Master Chief might have a chance.
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I think Master Chief has a legitimate chance, and I think he has much better chances than Doomslayer.
- He represents an iconic video game franchise and an extremely popular video game genre
- He is somewhat recognizable in Japan, even though Xbox is essentially a non-player there
- His inclusion makes good business sense for both Nintendo and Microsoft
- His games are heavily rumored to be coming to Switch
- He has a ton of potential for a creative, ranged, weapons-based move-set
- His character/game is not associated with heavy amounts of violence/gore (compared to Doomslayer)
- Joker and Bayonetta have shown that guns are OK in regards to keeping Ultimate's age rating
- He would sell gangbusters and potentially entice players who don't own Smash to pick it up
- Banjo did not come with some obvious picks for Microsoft Mii costumes
- The Cuphead Mii costume shows Nintendo is willing to work with Microsoft for Smash even after Banjo was finished

Of course, all of this is just reasoning for his inclusion and not actually evidence that he is coming. But I just feel like it makes too much sense at this point.
 
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,763
Did my first Astral Chain spirit battle, the one against Kyle.

Man, this sucks. The setting and gimmick is accurately executed (New Pork City was a novel stage choice for this) but I still can't get over the fact that if it were part of an actual DLC board, it'd have been more prolonged and also include this song.




Boss in general was a really memorable moment in the game, so I'm feeling the bitterswetness settle in rn. Missing out on AC music alone is a bummer for me.
 
Lord Vatek

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,509
Nintendo is seriously leaving money on the table if they don't do music DLC. It would take almost no extra effort on their part and it would help fill the likely long gaps between characters.
 
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,299
It's funny they made Byleth happen so quickly but Spring Man was a no no due to ARMS not being a thing yet when they started Ultimate's development.

I'm still a little bitter about no Spring Man.
 
Hailinel

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I honestly don't think the general reaction to Byleth from Smash Salt Lords would have been all that different had they been released in another slot or in Pass 2. I think what really exacerbated things in the past week was the Dante Madness coming out of literally nowhere because people willfully misheard a voice actor interview and read things into Capcom's pre-planned DMC3 announcements that they wanted to read.

Would the reactions from people like Papa Genos been better if Byleth wasn't the final fighter of the pass? Yes. But I think we're all aware by now that YouTube Reactionaries aren't exactly the target demographic.
 
Demon Lizardman

Demon Lizardman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,773
Mekanos said:
I'm going to use this quote as a launchpad for something I've been thinking about a while...



So my thing is, I've played 3 Fire Emblem games, Awakening, Path Of Radiance, and Sacred Stones. I didn't finish any of them, I got the furthers in SS. They're fine games, but not my cup of tea for reasons I won't get into.

But it is hard to not feel a little spiteful when Nintendo keeps using Smash as a venue to advertise these games, through paid DLC. Corrin was a tipping point for me last game where I half-jokingly said I would never play another Fire Emblem game. And now they're adding Fire Emblem characters before the game even goes gold. If you don't like Fire Emblem, you are inundated with this series that has done well on retail releases post-Awakening, has a strong mobile presence, is a growing series, but has not really entered the pantheon of gaming. There is no science or magic formula to why Smash series get a proportional amount of representation. But it becomes difficult to just roll over and accept it after a certain point. Nintendo is a business, and Sakurai clearly has a love for Fire Emblem, but these tail-end DLC Fire Emblem characters consistently feel poorly timed and deflate the hype cycle. I really doubt this was the reaction Nintendo was hoping for. If Blyeth was added in a season 2, after Three Houses came out and was genuinely well-received, I wouldn't feel this strongly about it.

Blyeth was probably the one character they could have added that would legitimately disappoint me because the circumstances of their addition - being added before their game even came out and being the only Nintendo character in a Pass full of third party characters - strikes me as very cynical. It's also difficult to voice this opinion without being generalized as a whiny, entitled child who hates Fire Emblem and is throwing a tantrum because it wasn't the character they wanted. I wanted to be open minded about whoever this character was. I didn't particularly care who they added after Banjo. But I feel on some level it's important to remember that this is a product they're selling us, and not every person vocally upset with this is harassing Sakurai on Twitter over it.

There is a weird tendency in fandom, but especially in Smash fandom, to distance ourselves from the "toxic" and "bad" fandoms to a performative extreme. If we aren't constantly condemning the toxic fans and constantly saying how the loudest fans are harassing people, somehow we are condoning it. We like to point and make fun of the fans who are disappointed they didn't get the character they wanted, or are upset at the character that did get in. I am just as guilty of this as anyone. But I feel like longterm, this isn't a healthy model for discourse. It turns discussion tribalistic by nature. I think we're too caught up worrying about the bad and toxic fans. That isn't to say we shouldn't call out toxic behavior when we see it. Some people in this thread, and others, definitely acted out of line, regardless of their opinion on Blyeth. But when I see comments like "the Smash fandom deserves this," "Sakurai should ignore the fans," it's hard to not feel a little bit like we are much more interested in gatekeeping the discourse and preserving the status quo of a parasocial relationship to a game director and the product he's selling us above all else. Nobody here should be okay with Sakurai being harassed on Twitter or fans being at each others' throats over a video game character. That should be a very obvious stance that doesn't need to be re-established.

While constant negativity isn't healthy either, I think it's okay to let people feel a little raw and disappointed and shitpost in the first couple of days. People will get over it. They always do. People were in full sky-is-falling mode after Kencineroar + Plant, but Joker's announcement brought back the hype for many. If people can be jumping for joy when long-awaited characters like Banjo & Kazooie are added, flooding the forum with screams of joy, I think it's okay to allow the opposite to happen. I trust most posters here to, eventually, lick their wounds and self-moderate. I personally have no interest in publicly wallowing in my own disappointment - most of it I didn't share publicly.

To answer your question, I gave Fire Emblem a try three times and it didn't click. While I have reason to believe Three Houses might be different, it's hard to not just be a little bitter at a series that Nintendo and Sakurai (either or) constantly wants to advertise to us through paid DLC when other Nintendo series don't get this special treatment. Perhaps that is unreasonable to an extent, but I wonder how much this advertisement is actually working. To be sure, it won't hurt DLC sales. Most people who wanted to buy the Fighters Pass already did. And to see such open hostility towards this character, via social media statistics, it's hard to not feel like this is backfiring to some extent. It definitely isn't engendering me to the series at all, albeit through no fault of its own. I would be interested in surveys and statistic seeing how effective these marketing strategies are. But as I said earlier, I suspect this isn't the reaction Nintendo was hoping for. Either that, or they knew this would happen and put Blyeth at the end on purpose, which is again, very cynical. So if Blyeth didn't turn me off of Three Houses, it didn't help either.

None of it really matters in the long run. This is a mascot fighting game on an electronic toy. But I think some of the back-and-forth on this subject could be understood better if we try to not weaponize our disappointment, whether that is our disappointment in a video game or disappointment at how others are acting.

As a final note, I dislike the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument. Many people like to have a full roster for competitive's sake (multiplayer, tournaments, etc.), or also for other reasons, like stages, music, and Spirit Boards. I feel there is a need to talk down to people who are disappointed, dismissing grievances in a way that only fuels the hostility. We're here to have fun, right?

I'm probably going to take a break from this thread, but I wanted to leave you all with this, and I hope that we will calm down as the next character approaches, whether that's one month away or six.
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Great post, this is how I feel as well as somebody who also tried to get into Fire Emblem
 
ned_ballad

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,238
Rochester, New York
By the end of 2021, there's going to be this weird period of time between 2018-2021 that just isn't represented by any items, Pokeballs, Assist Trophies or music (unless the series gets DLC)

It's something I hope they think about with Smash now being a supported product through 2021.
 
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,297
I wonder if ARMS and AC didn't make it in because they wanna save new first party IP for the next Smash
 
DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Hailinel said:
I honestly don't think the general reaction to Byleth from Smash Salt Lords would have been all that different had they been released in another slot or in Pass 2.
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I ruminated on this last night and cam to the complete opposite conclusion. Byleth was a bad pick for the last character.
  • By having the first 4 characters be 3rd parties, people would reasonably expect #5 to be a 3rd party.
  • By having what many people see as a disappointing character be the last one makes some people apprehensive about purchasing the second fighter's pass on blind faith.
  • By having Byleth revealed all on their lonesome, the blow doesn't get blunted by another reveal that could be more exciting (anyone that doesn't like Hero could get excited by Banjo and vice versa).
Really, Byleth should've been either at E3 or in the September direct.
 
ned_ballad

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,238
Rochester, New York
By the end of Ultimate's life, we might be looking at Pokemon's 9th generation and the newest Pokeball in Ultimate will still be Marshadow from 2017

I just find that weird and seems worth the effort to add a handful of Pokeballs/Assist Trophies from newer games just to keep that aspect of Smash fresh years after release
 
Horohorohoro

Horohorohoro

Member
Jan 28, 2019
6,723
Phendrift said:
I wonder if ARMS and AC didn't make it in because they wanna save new first party IP for the next Smash
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I honestly don't even know if they were planning that far ahead. I think they just didn't know back in 2018 if people would be excited for an Astral Chain or ARMS character when they finalized the DLC, but they knew FE had a history of decent sales and fan love.
 
DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Phendrift said:
I wonder if ARMS and AC didn't make it in because they wanna save new first party IP for the next Smash
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I feel like Sakurai and co are really apprehensive about putting in new IPs for fear they might tank.

Imagine if they decided on someone from Codename Steam before the game launched. Try and explain that pick to fans.
 
Regulus Tera

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
24 hours later I still believe Byleth is an awful choice, but I have made peace with it because Female Byleth is cute and the fanart is coming in droves.
 
KtotheRoc

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,639
Ryce said:
I've been going through the results of my DLC prediction contest, and unfortunately nobody was able to correctly name all four characters, which was specified as a requirement for receiving the $60 prize. Practically everyone got at least one character, and tons of people got two characters. Nobody was technically able to name three characters -- there would be two runners-up if I let Erdrick count for Hero, but then that wouldn't be fair to the few participants who explicitly named Hero, which was a much more challenging guess back in June.

I have an eShop card ready to go, but it just doesn't feel right declaring someone the winner of a prediction contest for being arguably 50% correct. The rules explicitly state that a winner isn't guaranteed, but I still feel bad about how this turned out. I'm not sure what to do. I really anticipated a clearer outcome.
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Speaking honestly, I know you probably aren't looking forward to doing something like this for Season 2, and I don't blame you.

What if you held just a mini run-off for Season 2? Say for just the first character or two. We should hopefully learn who they are this year...
 
PK Gaming

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
ned_ballad said:
With Ultimate going on this long with development, the next gen Smash is likely not going to release as early in the console's life as past Smash games had
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I don't even want to think about the next-gen Smash game. Hopefully Smash Ultimate lasts a long, long time.

Regulus Tera said:
24 hours later I still believe Byleth is an awful choice, but I have made peace with it because Female Byleth is cute and the fanart is coming in droves.
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ipsum bonum
 
Regulus Tera

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
It's weird how Cuphead and Sans have Mii Costumes now but Shovel Knight doesn't. It feels a bit unfair, doesn't it?

I'd also suggest Shantae but that seems more difficult to pull off as a Mii Costume.
 
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I wonder if Sans' sales inspired a go-ahead for higher quality Mii costumes that come with music.
 
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